Insulin and weight gain

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  • psychod787
    psychod787 Posts: 4,088 Member
    edited January 2020
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    rheddmobile wrote: »
    candylilacs wrote: »
    Metformin gave me diarrhea all day. Keto gave me the skills that I needed to keep the carbs down. I really have a problem with diabetes type 2 “going into remission” and you’ll still have type 2 diAabetes. A1c is normal 5.6 and under. You don’t have a diabetes. That’s like a normal person 110/72 and hypertensive. I’m not big on doctors telling you whoppers.

    This isn’t valid. Hypertension refers to that number - if your blood pressure is high, you have hypertension. Diabetes does not refer to that number, it refers to the body’s inability to metabolize carbs properly. The various numbers - a1c and your fasting blood glucose, etc. - are not a measure of diabetes, just a marker of the symptoms of diabetes. You can have a completely normal a1c - mine is 4.9 at the moment which is in the middle of the normal range - and still be unable to metabolize carbs properly, either because you have insulin resistance or most commonly because most type 2 diabetics lose the ability to produce a first stage insulin reaction in order to quickly respond to ingested carbs and keep blood sugar even after eating. If you are controlling your blood glucose by never eating carbs, that isn’t the same as being a healthy person with a healthy pancreas, liver, and cellular mechanism, who can eat a ton of carbs without seeing dangerously high blood sugar numbers. For example, despite having normal a1c and a fasting glucose this morning of 96, if I were to go right now and eat a big bowl of rice from Panda Express, my glucose would probably top 180. Anything above 150 is actively doing damage to your nervous system and circulatory system at that moment. So yes, despite my good control I still have diabetes. If you only have good numbers because you are eating keto, you still have diabetes.

    While I am not an advocate for a "high" carb diet for a diet diabetic. I would say your example of eating a large bowl of rice "plain" is invalid. MOST people are not going to eat a bowl of rice in isolation. They are going to eat it with some fat, fiber, and protein. Might not stop the overall load, but will low the release. Still does not change the research I read where people were "magically" cured by high carb ultra low fat diets. Their symptoms disappeared when they lost weight. I personally don't think you can "cure" diabetes. Maybe remission, though there is some research on pancreatic cell regeneration... Fuzzy at best in my opinion. On the flip side, there is some research that a high fat diet might increase insulin resistance over time..... Its just really murky @rheddmobile
  • magnusthenerd
    magnusthenerd Posts: 1,207 Member
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    rheddmobile wrote: »
    candylilacs wrote: »
    Metformin gave me diarrhea all day. Keto gave me the skills that I needed to keep the carbs down. I really have a problem with diabetes type 2 “going into remission” and you’ll still have type 2 diAabetes. A1c is normal 5.6 and under. You don’t have a diabetes. That’s like a normal person 110/72 and hypertensive. I’m not big on doctors telling you whoppers.

    This isn’t valid. Hypertension refers to that number - if your blood pressure is high, you have hypertension. Diabetes does not refer to that number, it refers to the body’s inability to metabolize carbs properly. The various numbers - a1c and your fasting blood glucose, etc. - are not a measure of diabetes, just a marker of the symptoms of diabetes. You can have a completely normal a1c - mine is 4.9 at the moment which is in the middle of the normal range - and still be unable to metabolize carbs properly, either because you have insulin resistance or most commonly because most type 2 diabetics lose the ability to produce a first stage insulin reaction in order to quickly respond to ingested carbs and keep blood sugar even after eating. If you are controlling your blood glucose by never eating carbs, that isn’t the same as being a healthy person with a healthy pancreas, liver, and cellular mechanism, who can eat a ton of carbs without seeing dangerously high blood sugar numbers. For example, despite having normal a1c and a fasting glucose this morning of 96, if I were to go right now and eat a big bowl of rice from Panda Express, my glucose would probably top 180. Anything above 150 is actively doing damage to your nervous system and circulatory system at that moment. So yes, despite my good control I still have diabetes. If you only have good numbers because you are eating keto, you still have diabetes.

    Except, as an etiology, diabetes's first sign is not a carbohydrate metabolism problem, but actually a problem of lipid metabolisms. It is just that it becomes glaringly obvious and diagnosiable once the glucose metabolisms issues how up. If it was easy to detect early that people have ectopic fat distribution issues, diabetes would probably have a rather different diagnosis criteria.
    I think it is John Yudkin who even argues diabetes arguably isn't a disease, but prognosis of issues, and that's why he hate the idea of diagnosing people with pre-diabtes because now you're giving a prognosis of a prognosis of future disease states, not actually dealing with an actual disease.
  • magnusthenerd
    magnusthenerd Posts: 1,207 Member
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    Clarification, when initially starting insulin, yes it can cause some weight gain. It isn't violating thermodynamics, so calm down people. What happens is previously, glucose was free circulating in the blood. Insulin will increase uptake into fat cells for esterification, it will increase muscle tissue uptake, and it will reduce liver release. Glucose stored in the liver and muscle cells will involve storage as glycogen which means storing water at about a 3-4x the weight of glucose stored.

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