Coronavirus prep
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NYT ran an opinion piece by Kareem Abdul Jabbar advocating for NBA players to jump the vaccine line. I respect his rationale (for better or worse, celebrities are role models and could, perhaps, lower vaccine resistance in vulnerable populations), but I just kept wondering what kind of society prioritizes professional athletes over teachers. Not a good look. Sadly, nothing new, either.18
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Yeh, I've seen headlines that said school isn't a worrisome infection source. How can it not be?? That simply doesn't make sense to me.
The numbers say that when communities reopen schools for in person classes, it doesn't cause a spike. There could be lots of reasons for that, like places that reopen schools already have high numbers from people not being careful, or the fact that just because schools are open doesn't mean a lot of parents aren't keeping their kids home anyway. I'd also bet schools that are able to reconfigure and supply their schools for safety "even out" the schools that can't and do in fact cause some spread.
It seems that schools that can space kids and teachers out, provide everyone with PPE, and pay enough personnel to monitor children for safety compliance can keep everyone pretty safe. But as was mentioned lots of US school systems simply don't have the money for that.
IMHO teachers should be prioritized for vaccination right behind healthcare workers, so 1b I guess. I'm not a parent, but every parent I know says getting kids back to regular school is super important and vaccinating teachers so they are protected when safety measures don't quite cut it is the best way to do that I think.
I'm game for that. I know I am at towards the end of the line, and I am grateful that my health and my risks are such that I would be put there. My turn will come in time.4 -
Since Covid/schools is a current topic here, I'll mention that 1A (an NPR show) just did a segment today on the topic, interview/discussion with an epidemiologist/professor from Bloomberg School of Public Health at Johns Hopkins, the president of the American Federation of Teachers, a school superintendent from Wisconsin (I think from the system where one of the CDC school studies was done), a high school teacher from the greater Detroit area (Wayne County), and NPR's education reporter.
IMO, the level of insight represented by those people was really good, but in the time available (bit under an hour), they were only able to skim the surface. Still may be worth a listen, when the podcast comes out, for those interested.
Overview here:
https://the1a.org/segments/in-person-school-reopening-pandemic/
Later, there should be a podcast here, or on Apple: https://www.npr.org/podcasts/510316/1a
(Oops, edited because accidentally clicked post before finishing typing)2 -
Yes, as I understand it, teachers would be non-healthcare frontline essential workers, so 1b.3
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Yeh, I've seen headlines that said school isn't a worrisome infection source. How can it not be?? That simply doesn't make sense to me.
The numbers say that when communities reopen schools for in person classes, it doesn't cause a spike. There could be lots of reasons for that, like places that reopen schools already have high numbers from people not being careful, or the fact that just because schools are open doesn't mean a lot of parents aren't keeping their kids home anyway. I'd also bet schools that are able to reconfigure and supply their schools for safety "even out" the schools that can't and do in fact cause some spread.
It seems that schools that can space kids and teachers out, provide everyone with PPE, and pay enough personnel to monitor children for safety compliance can keep everyone pretty safe. But as was mentioned lots of US school systems simply don't have the money for that.
To be honest, schools aren't hiring extra people to monitor kids. Who is going to sign up for a job paying $10/hr to be around kids in an enclosed space transmitting Covid when one can make more stocking shelves off hours (or even when the store is closed) with minimal people around?5 -
I also can't see why schools are not considered to be a risk. My assumption is that it is because most children do not get severe illness. This idea ignores teachers and support staff, family members of those teachers and support staff, and family members of students who bring it home after catching from a fellow student. How is that not a concern?!13
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In January the schools in London were closed because they had 'reviewed' the school transmission rates. I haven't been able to find the data behind that decision but it did coincide with the sharp rise of the variant.
Now that variant has been confirmed in Minnesota and Iowa, it is just a matter of time before it's here in S.D.4 -
In January the schools in London were closed because they had 'reviewed' the school transmission rates. I haven't been able to find the data behind that decision but it did coincide with the sharp rise of the variant.
Now that variant has been confirmed in Minnesota and Iowa, it is just a matter of time before it's here in S.D.
It's already there. I'm pretty sure all the variants are in every state.7 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »Yeh, I've seen headlines that said school isn't a worrisome infection source. How can it not be?? That simply doesn't make sense to me.
The numbers say that when communities reopen schools for in person classes, it doesn't cause a spike. There could be lots of reasons for that, like places that reopen schools already have high numbers from people not being careful, or the fact that just because schools are open doesn't mean a lot of parents aren't keeping their kids home anyway. I'd also bet schools that are able to reconfigure and supply their schools for safety "even out" the schools that can't and do in fact cause some spread.
It seems that schools that can space kids and teachers out, provide everyone with PPE, and pay enough personnel to monitor children for safety compliance can keep everyone pretty safe. But as was mentioned lots of US school systems simply don't have the money for that.
To be honest, schools aren't hiring extra people to monitor kids. Who is going to sign up for a job paying $10/hr to be around kids in an enclosed space transmitting Covid when one can make more stocking shelves off hours (or even when the store is closed) with minimal people around?
I didn't really mean they'd be hiring extra staff. More like some systems are able to always have plenty of teachers and teaching assistants to give more personalized attn to students, while other systems are always barely able to staff enough teachers to handle classrooms overflowing with students.2 -
T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »I also can't see why schools are not considered to be a risk. My assumption is that it is because most children do not get severe illness. This idea ignores teachers and support staff, family members of those teachers and support staff, and family members of students who bring it home after catching from a fellow student. How is that not a concern?!
Agree with all you have said. I'll take a stab at how schools are not considered a risk (although I personally do not agree with that conclusion).
My hypothesis starts with the assumption that the school transmission data available is skewed by disproportionate representation by private schools, I.e.:- more school resources
- less classroom crowding
- vastly fewer special needs kids that might have distancing difficulty or require close contact
- ability to immediately expel/suspend kids who don't follow rules
- comparatively wealthy student body, where wealth correlates inversely to probability of infection (more likely to WFH, less likely to need public transportation or have public facing jobs, less dense living circumstances so better able to isolate within the home)
Hence, in-person school data is overrepresented by kids less likely to show up at school infected. Remote schooling data overrepresented by kids living in conditions where they are more likely to become infected. So while it appears in-person compares favorably to remote schooling, what is really going on is you see the effects of comparing a disproportionately wealthy population to a disproportionately poor one. The outcome has more to do with the risk profiles the groups you are comparing, not whether they attend in-person or remote.8 -
T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »I also can't see why schools are not considered to be a risk. My assumption is that it is because most children do not get severe illness. This idea ignores teachers and support staff, family members of those teachers and support staff, and family members of students who bring it home after catching from a fellow student. How is that not a concern?!
Agree with all you have said. I'll take a stab at how schools are not considered a risk (although I personally do not agree with that conclusion).
My hypothesis starts with the assumption that the school transmission data available is skewed by disproportionate representation by private schools, I.e.:- more school resources
- less classroom crowding
- vastly fewer special needs kids that might have distancing difficulty or require close contact
- ability to immediately expel/suspend kids who don't follow rules
- comparatively wealthy student body, where wealth correlates inversely to probability of infection (more likely to WFH, less likely to need public transportation or have public facing jobs, less dense living circumstances so better able to isolate within the home)
Hence, in-person school data is overrepresented by kids less likely to show up at school infected. Remote schooling data overrepresented by kids living in conditions where they are more likely to become infected. So while it appears in-person compares favorably to remote schooling, what is really going on is you see the effects of comparing a disproportionately wealthy population to a disproportionately poor one. The outcome has more to do with the risk profiles the groups you are comparing, not whether they attend in-person or remote.
I think you may be on to something. In Israel schools were indeed a severe factor in community transmission, so the idea that children don’t transmit the disease can’t be accurate.
Locally in Memphis, they are claiming schools are not a risk but school sports are a major factor. However, over 65% of our cases, the contact tracing fails to identify where it came from, so how do they know enough about anything to even make remarks like that? Clearly they are missing something when more than half of cases come who knows where.6 -
Yeh, I've seen headlines that said school isn't a worrisome infection source. How can it not be?? That simply doesn't make sense to me.
The numbers say that when communities reopen schools for in person classes, it doesn't cause a spike. There could be lots of reasons for that, like places that reopen schools already have high numbers from people not being careful, or the fact that just because schools are open doesn't mean a lot of parents aren't keeping their kids home anyway. I'd also bet schools that are able to reconfigure and supply their schools for safety "even out" the schools that can't and do in fact cause some spread.
It seems that schools that can space kids and teachers out, provide everyone with PPE, and pay enough personnel to monitor children for safety compliance can keep everyone pretty safe. But as was mentioned lots of US school systems simply don't have the money for that.
IMHO teachers should be prioritized for vaccination right behind healthcare workers, so 1b I guess. I'm not a parent, but every parent I know says getting kids back to regular school is super important and vaccinating teachers so they are protected when safety measures don't quite cut it is the best way to do that I think.
Not sure if this is universal across the country...probably not given that nothing is...but in NM teachers are in 1b as non healthcare essential frontline workers. We started vaccinating 1b a couple of weeks ago.4 -
T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »I also can't see why schools are not considered to be a risk. My assumption is that it is because most children do not get severe illness. This idea ignores teachers and support staff, family members of those teachers and support staff, and family members of students who bring it home after catching from a fellow student. How is that not a concern?!
I don't think it's so much that they are considered to be no risk or of no concern. Rather, where does that risk fall relative to essential function and relative to other behaviors and things people are doing and what things are open for business.
In NM, it is difficult to quantify that risk as our public schools have for the most part been 100% on-line for almost a year now. The only real in state data we have to go off of is our private schools who have either been 100% in person or doing a hybrid model. That data shows no community spread within the schools...but it's also a pretty small sample size and not really representative of the NM population overall.
Another matter that is driving the lower risk assessment here in NM is that most things are closed...there is literally almost nowhere to go and nothing to do...so the idea is basically that kids will be pretty much either at home or at school, and not doing much of anything else. If things were more open, it would likely result in a different risk assessment. My kids rarely leave the house except to go play outside or go on walks or bike rides with us. Anytime we take them somewhere, you'd think we were going to Disneyland...I mean, who knew going out to pick up carryout enchiladas could be so exciting.
ETA: I'd actually be pretty upset if the governor decided to open anything else up before opening schools. I'd rather my kids be in person for school a couple of days per week than to be able to go eat indoors at a restaurant...as bad as I feel for those folks. There was already quite a bit of backlash when she decided to let gyms reopen in December and schools were still closed.
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cwolfman13 wrote: »Yeh, I've seen headlines that said school isn't a worrisome infection source. How can it not be?? That simply doesn't make sense to me.
The numbers say that when communities reopen schools for in person classes, it doesn't cause a spike. There could be lots of reasons for that, like places that reopen schools already have high numbers from people not being careful, or the fact that just because schools are open doesn't mean a lot of parents aren't keeping their kids home anyway. I'd also bet schools that are able to reconfigure and supply their schools for safety "even out" the schools that can't and do in fact cause some spread.
It seems that schools that can space kids and teachers out, provide everyone with PPE, and pay enough personnel to monitor children for safety compliance can keep everyone pretty safe. But as was mentioned lots of US school systems simply don't have the money for that.
IMHO teachers should be prioritized for vaccination right behind healthcare workers, so 1b I guess. I'm not a parent, but every parent I know says getting kids back to regular school is super important and vaccinating teachers so they are protected when safety measures don't quite cut it is the best way to do that I think.
Not sure if this is universal across the country...probably not given that nothing is...but in NM teachers are in 1b as non healthcare essential frontline workers. We started vaccinating 1b a couple of weeks ago.
Teachers are 1B in Michigan also.
Anecdotally (i.e., what I see among friends reporting on social media), it looks to me like relatively more teachers are getting vaccinated vs. the over 65 group that's supposed to be on the same timeline. This may be a misimpression, or it could be logistics (like how they've organized the process for teachers to get vaccinations being more efficient, or because of the sizes of the target groups), or it could be a sub-prioritization. I have no idea.
For sure, though, teachers are getting vaccinated here, including non-old ones. In theory, as published in state guidelines, they're after healthcare workers and long term care residents/staff (1A), and on the same schedule as corrections staff, first responders, and those over age 75, in 1B.6 -
The CDC has a page to track variants in US states.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/transmission/variant-cases.html2 -
Restaurant workers are now considered priority for the vaccine since they are reopening indoor dining here in NYC on February 14th.
Also taxi drivers are also considered priority.
https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/537001-cuomo-adds-ny-restaurant-workers-to-vaccine-priority-list3 -
snowflake954 wrote: »Yikes! Stay away from her and tell your sister too. Unfortunately some people just don't get it.Ugh. I know masks have been discussed to death. I have no clue which mask is THE mask but feel most offer at least some protection. I went into a convenience store yesterday, 50% in compliance. But what truly pinched my gut, was seeing a woman my sister knows. She can't weigh more than 80#, nothing to her, she's recently had throat cancer, a few months back, and she wasn't playing it safe. Then when she left, she stopped to hug another maskless individual outside.
Oh my lawd.
Or they think because they’ve had COVID they’re immune or because they’ve been vaccinated they’re immune. Neither is true. And both only address the self, it does not take others into account. The best info we have right now is that people can still infect other people even if they’ve been vaccinated or had COVID.
The “community responsibility” is really missing from many peoples’ minds right now.
I’ve been framing it like second-hand smoke to help get through to some of my students. It doesn’t just affect the smoker. Neither does COVID.10 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »NM Governor just announced yesterday that public schools can resume in person learning on a hybrid schedule starting Feb 8. It will be up to individual districts as to whether or not they will. I'm in the largest school district in the state, so it'll be interesting to see what they do...hoping the kids will be able to go back though...a couple days out of the week is better than nothing.
Not necessarily for the teachers and their families. Even if teachers are vaccinated (most aren’t right now) the best information says they can still take it home to their families. As can the kids.
Some districts (Oklahoma) say the kids don’t have to wear masks indoors if they’re sitting six feet apart.
I am so scared for my teacher friends and their families.
I have a couple of friends who are teachers and I know quite a few teachers at my kids' school, and every single one of them is and has been ready to get back. The one's that don't want to can opt out. Masks are required in NM indoors and will also be required in school. They are also required outdoors in crowded public areas and any outdoor land/property maintained by a government entity.
Group A will be Monday and Tuesday...Wednesday is a deep clean day...group B on Thursday and Friday. Smaller classes and more separation. All NM private schools have been doing this since the fall and it hasn't been an issue.
From the sounds of things, most districts won't go back until the very end of February as they need time to ramp up. It is thought that by then, most teachers who want to be vaccinated will be. NM is 2nd in the nation in regards to per capita vaccine distribution and getting needles into arms. We've vaccinated roughly 10% of our population currently
Sounds like your districts have more effective safety plans than the ones where my friends are working (Michigan, Oklahoma, Florida) where they’re not doing what they should to protect anyone, frankly. Especially people with pre-existing conditions which make them more vulnerable to serious health risks as a result of COVID.
No one gets paid enough to literally die for their job.
NM still has some of the most stringent restrictions in the US. We opened up a bit over the summer as our cases were pretty low...end of July had a 7 day rolling average of around 330 new cases per day. By early September we were down to a 7 day rolling average of around 88 new cases per day and there was a lot of pressure to open up further, including schools.
This is about the time when individuals started to become much more lax in their precautions...a lot more people out and about doing "normal" things...more people dining out where earlier in the summer people were more apprehensive even though indoor dining was open...more parties and large gatherings at home and public places, etc. We started spiking again in October and by Thanksgiving our 7 day rolling average had jumped over 2,500 per day, with many days having numbers over 3K per day.
We went into another stay at home "lockdown" about a week before Thanksgiving and have been in that position since. No indoor dining...limited outdoor patio dining...no bars are open...gyms open, but with substantial restrictions on occupancy as well as amenities that can be used, etc. The NM government is also trying their best to limit travel to NM for other states, which hurts as tourism is one of our largest industries. Of course, they can't straight up deny entry to the state...but there's nothing to do here, and the things that are open like the zoo, botanical gardens, state parks, etc are only open to NM residents and ID is required to enter these places.
No idea how much longer this will go on...but our numbers have dropped to a 7 day rolling average of around 700 as of yesterday. There has been a big push to re-open schools on at least a hybrid basis, even if we need to keep other restrictions such as indoor dining in place. Mid year reports across most school districts show a high failure rate with distance learning as well as growing mental health issues with children across the state that simply didn't exist at this level before. As well as we've done as a state with this virus, unfortunately, we are also leading the nation in childhood suicide.
Everything comes at a cost, right? Economic, educational, emotional ... The balance scales are continually shifting.
It does sound like NM has a solid plan and data and are doing the best they can. Florida, for example, is tying state funding to in-person education for K-12. Not a solid plan for some areas of the state—the densely populated ones with high percentages of positive tests, hospitalizations, ICU beds occupied, etc.2 -
snowflake954 wrote: »I confused about all the discussion of water temp. Here are CDC's instructions for washing a mask. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/how-to-wash-cloth-face-coverings.html
Remember, when you are cleaning COVID from your hands, it is soap/detergent that matters. No one scalds there hands to remove the virus.
I spray my cloth mask with a disinfectant and then wash. As for hands, alcohol (gel) immediately kills COVID, so some of that before handwashing will be safer.
I have similarly disinfected my mask by spraying down with rubbing alcohol.
I bought this Tide antibacterial spray for fabric, I use that and then hand wash with detergent.3 -
Yeh, I've seen headlines that said school isn't a worrisome infection source. How can it not be?? That simply doesn't make sense to me.
The schools in one of the studies I read had met or gone beyond the CDC safety standards. That does not seem to be the norm in most places.
Good point about the resources schools have, i.e. wealthier schools have more resources to devote to heathy and safety standards.
Our communities of color have been disproportionately affected by the virus and less resourced schools could tip those scales even further. In LA County, the districts with a lower per capita income per household tend to have a greater proportion of students of color. Many with families who are essential workers. 😞6
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