Coronavirus prep
Replies
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Update on the shingles vaccine reaction if anyone is interested. While the urgent care doctor said that she "couldn't rule out" a vaccine reaction, the next day her GP told her definitively that she believes it to be a vaccine reaction. Given her age, general health, and the timing of the rash "you would not have shingles right now if you hadn't had the vaccine".
Don't shoot me I am just the messenger - that is what the doctors are telling us.
Personally it wouldn't dissuade me from getting the vaccine, I do wish that I had a shingles vaccine prior though.
Doctors are human beings and make wrong calls all the time, IMO. Not saying this particular case involves wrong calls. But through life, I've found out the doctor title doesn't make a person 100% intelligent on any subject.
Ex.: dh fell and separated his shoulder a couple years ago. Right after the fall dh noticed a big bump right where the injury occurred. Doctor told him it was in no way related to his fall. So wrong. After several doctors/x-rays later, it told us what his original dr. didn't.
It's up to us to be our own advocate and question things that don't sound right. Even from doctors.
Of course! I have said multiple times in this convo, and I’ll say it again, we don’t know 100% for sure that the vaccine was the trigger. And probably never will unless more studies come out showing this as a side effect.
We believe that it was a factor, and two doctors agreed with that. But I am aware lots of people do not.
And to be clear - we are all still planning on taking the vaccine.9 -
Update on the shingles vaccine reaction if anyone is interested. While the urgent care doctor said that she "couldn't rule out" a vaccine reaction, the next day her GP told her definitively that she believes it to be a vaccine reaction. Given her age, general health, and the timing of the rash "you would not have shingles right now if you hadn't had the vaccine".
Don't shoot me I am just the messenger - that is what the doctors are telling us.
Personally it wouldn't dissuade me from getting the vaccine, I do wish that I had a shingles vaccine prior though.
Doctors are human beings and make wrong calls all the time, IMO. Not saying this particular case involves wrong calls. But through life, I've found out the doctor title doesn't make a person 100% intelligent on any subject.
Ex.: dh fell and separated his shoulder a couple years ago. Right after the fall dh noticed a big bump right where the injury occurred. Doctor told him it was in no way related to his fall. So wrong. After several doctors/x-rays later, it told us what his original dr. didn't.
It's up to us to be our own advocate and question things that don't sound right. Even from doctors.
Of course! I have said multiple times in this convo, and I’ll say it again, we don’t know 100% for sure that the vaccine was the trigger. And probably never will unless more studies come out showing this as a side effect.
We believe that it was a factor, and two doctors agreed with that. But I am aware lots of people do not.
And to be clear - we are all still planning on taking the vaccine.
FWIW, you got a hug from me, not a disagree.
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Doctors are human beings and make wrong calls all the time, IMO.
Agree 100%. A lot of their diagnosis seems to be based on what is most common in patient populations.
Case in point, I've had appendicitis since Jan.1. It took them 19 days to diagnose appendicitis despite characteristic lower right abdominal pain because I was initially told, "No, it can't be appendicitis, it would have ruptured by now" and "No, it can't be appendicitis, you would have been vomiting". Guess what showed up on the CT scan? An inflamed appendix. Chronic appendicitis is far more rare than acute but it does exist, yet all they considered was the acute version.16 -
Doctors are human beings and make wrong calls all the time, IMO.
Agree 100%. A lot of their diagnosis seems to be based on what is most common in patient populations.
Case in point, I've had appendicitis since Jan.1. It took them 19 days to diagnose appendicitis despite characteristic lower right abdominal pain because I was initially told, "No, it can't be appendicitis, it would have ruptured by now" and "No, it can't be appendicitis, you would have been vomiting". Guess what showed up on the CT scan? An inflamed appendix. Chronic appendicitis is far more rare than acute but it does exist, yet all they considered was the acute version.
When I worked at the hospital, I once had an ER doctor send a six-year-old to be seen in Urgent Care. Turned out she needed emergency surgery that night on her appendix.
I was in my early thirties when I got Shingles. Never thought to ask why; just a matter of 'stuff happens'.7 -
Doctors are human beings and make wrong calls all the time, IMO.
Agree 100%. A lot of their diagnosis seems to be based on what is most common in patient populations.
Case in point, I've had appendicitis since Jan.1. It took them 19 days to diagnose appendicitis despite characteristic lower right abdominal pain because I was initially told, "No, it can't be appendicitis, it would have ruptured by now" and "No, it can't be appendicitis, you would have been vomiting". Guess what showed up on the CT scan? An inflamed appendix. Chronic appendicitis is far more rare than acute but it does exist, yet all they considered was the acute version.
So frustrating to suffer for 19 days! And not to be heard! Hope you are feeling better.
There is also a prejudice angle with treatment providers not listening to patients. There is a pattern of healthcare providers disregarding certain patient demographic groups (and also worse outcomes among those groups). I always think of poor Serena Williams. She is certainly a rich and famous person. She also previously had a pulmonary embolism, so she knew what it felt like. You would think her treatment team would really pay attention to her! But no. No one in the hospital believed her. Jeez. So dangerous. So hard to wrap my head around that one.5 -
Doctors are human beings and make wrong calls all the time, IMO.
Agree 100%. A lot of their diagnosis seems to be based on what is most common in patient populations.
Case in point, I've had appendicitis since Jan.1. It took them 19 days to diagnose appendicitis despite characteristic lower right abdominal pain because I was initially told, "No, it can't be appendicitis, it would have ruptured by now" and "No, it can't be appendicitis, you would have been vomiting". Guess what showed up on the CT scan? An inflamed appendix. Chronic appendicitis is far more rare than acute but it does exist, yet all they considered was the acute version.
So frustrating to suffer for 19 days! And not to be heard! Hope you are feeling better.
There is also a prejudice angle with treatment providers not listening to patients. There is a pattern of healthcare providers disregarding certain patient demographic groups (and also worse outcomes among those groups). I always think of poor Serena Williams. She is certainly a rich and famous person. She also previously had a pulmonary embolism, so she knew what it felt like. You would think her treatment team would really pay attention to her! But no. No one in the hospital believed her. Jeez. So dangerous. So hard to wrap my head around that one.
Thanks! They opted to treat conservatively with antibiotics (which thrilled me at the time because I was getting completely worn out having my own immune system fighting the inflammation but they were so strong I ended up feeling worse, lol -- be careful what you wish for) and I'm probably at about 75% - 80% resolution now. Follow up scan is in 10 days.
That is so sad about Serena, and the overall existence of systemic biases. You'd think that medicine should be the place where a body is a body is a body.5 -
paperpudding wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »Update on the shingles vaccine reaction if anyone is interested. While the urgent care doctor said that she "couldn't rule out" a vaccine reaction, the next day her GP told her definitively that she believes it to be a vaccine reaction. Given her age, general health, and the timing of the rash "you would not have shingles right now if you hadn't had the vaccine".
Don't shoot me I am just the messenger - that is what the doctors are telling us.
Personally it wouldn't dissuade me from getting the vaccine, I do wish that I had a shingles vaccine prior though.
Nobody is or was 'shooting' you
Would be interested to know via what mechanism the Dr thinks covid vaccine brought on shingles - since, as we all know, shingles is caused by re activation of chicken pox virus, dormant in your system since having the primary disease.
Or how he knows she wouldn't have shingles anyway - given young and healthy people can and do get it.
It is her professional opinion given her age, health status and the timing of the illness that it was triggered by the vaccine. I imagine she thinks it was brought on by stressing her immune system enough to reactivate the virus. Of course we will never know for sure, although as time goes on if we start seeing more cases I guess that will give more confirmation.
Ok, so she hasn't said by what mechanism this has happened just her opinion based on something
Her age and health status wouldn't suggest it to me - since since young healthy people do get shingles.
Not as commonly as older people but by no means rare.paperpudding wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »Update on the shingles vaccine reaction if anyone is interested. While the urgent care doctor said that she "couldn't rule out" a vaccine reaction, the next day her GP told her definitively that she believes it to be a vaccine reaction. Given her age, general health, and the timing of the rash "you would not have shingles right now if you hadn't had the vaccine".
Don't shoot me I am just the messenger - that is what the doctors are telling us.
Personally it wouldn't dissuade me from getting the vaccine, I do wish that I had a shingles vaccine prior though.
Nobody is or was 'shooting' you
Would be interested to know via what mechanism the Dr thinks covid vaccine brought on shingles - since, as we all know, shingles is caused by re activation of chicken pox virus, dormant in your system since having the primary disease.
Or how he knows she wouldn't have shingles anyway - given young and healthy people can and do get it.
It is her professional opinion given her age, health status and the timing of the illness that it was triggered by the vaccine. I imagine she thinks it was brought on by stressing her immune system enough to reactivate the virus. Of course we will never know for sure, although as time goes on if we start seeing more cases I guess that will give more confirmation.
Ok, so she hasn't said by what mechanism this has happened just her opinion based on something
Her age and health status wouldn't suggest it to me - since since young healthy people do get shingles.
Not as commonly as older people but by no means rare.
Honestly I wasn’t there (obviously) for the conversation and I didn’t grill my DIL on her exact wording.
So since it wouldn’t suggest it to you what would you suggest might be the cause - what is the usual trigger for shingles in young healthy people? I have mostly read that is triggered by reduced immunity, illness and/or stress. Is it more accurate that the cause is just random chance in your experience?
So correct me if I am wrong but you think it is more likely that this just occurred randomly with no identifiable stressor - than that it is somehow linked to a vaccine that directly affects the immune system? I guess to me with no other risk factor one would logically at least suspect the one risk factor that was recently introduced.
Yes general triggers of reduced immunity, illness, stress and sometimes randomly with no identifiable trigger
A ctually , no, it wasn't obvious you weren't there for the conversation, your previous post came across to me that you were relaying first hand what the Dr said
Given we dont know exactly what was said and it is being relayed to us 3rd hand, and you seem to have made up your mind already, I am leaving it there.
What I think or even what the individual doctor thinks doesn't matter - what counts is scientific measurable data.7 -
paperpudding wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »Update on the shingles vaccine reaction if anyone is interested. While the urgent care doctor said that she "couldn't rule out" a vaccine reaction, the next day her GP told her definitively that she believes it to be a vaccine reaction. Given her age, general health, and the timing of the rash "you would not have shingles right now if you hadn't had the vaccine".
Don't shoot me I am just the messenger - that is what the doctors are telling us.
Personally it wouldn't dissuade me from getting the vaccine, I do wish that I had a shingles vaccine prior though.
Nobody is or was 'shooting' you
Would be interested to know via what mechanism the Dr thinks covid vaccine brought on shingles - since, as we all know, shingles is caused by re activation of chicken pox virus, dormant in your system since having the primary disease.
Or how he knows she wouldn't have shingles anyway - given young and healthy people can and do get it.
It is her professional opinion given her age, health status and the timing of the illness that it was triggered by the vaccine. I imagine she thinks it was brought on by stressing her immune system enough to reactivate the virus. Of course we will never know for sure, although as time goes on if we start seeing more cases I guess that will give more confirmation.
Ok, so she hasn't said by what mechanism this has happened just her opinion based on something
Her age and health status wouldn't suggest it to me - since since young healthy people do get shingles.
Not as commonly as older people but by no means rare.paperpudding wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »Update on the shingles vaccine reaction if anyone is interested. While the urgent care doctor said that she "couldn't rule out" a vaccine reaction, the next day her GP told her definitively that she believes it to be a vaccine reaction. Given her age, general health, and the timing of the rash "you would not have shingles right now if you hadn't had the vaccine".
Don't shoot me I am just the messenger - that is what the doctors are telling us.
Personally it wouldn't dissuade me from getting the vaccine, I do wish that I had a shingles vaccine prior though.
Nobody is or was 'shooting' you
Would be interested to know via what mechanism the Dr thinks covid vaccine brought on shingles - since, as we all know, shingles is caused by re activation of chicken pox virus, dormant in your system since having the primary disease.
Or how he knows she wouldn't have shingles anyway - given young and healthy people can and do get it.
It is her professional opinion given her age, health status and the timing of the illness that it was triggered by the vaccine. I imagine she thinks it was brought on by stressing her immune system enough to reactivate the virus. Of course we will never know for sure, although as time goes on if we start seeing more cases I guess that will give more confirmation.
Ok, so she hasn't said by what mechanism this has happened just her opinion based on something
Her age and health status wouldn't suggest it to me - since since young healthy people do get shingles.
Not as commonly as older people but by no means rare.
Honestly I wasn’t there (obviously) for the conversation and I didn’t grill my DIL on her exact wording.
So since it wouldn’t suggest it to you what would you suggest might be the cause - what is the usual trigger for shingles in young healthy people? I have mostly read that is triggered by reduced immunity, illness and/or stress. Is it more accurate that the cause is just random chance in your experience?
So correct me if I am wrong but you think it is more likely that this just occurred randomly with no identifiable stressor - than that it is somehow linked to a vaccine that directly affects the immune system? I guess to me with no other risk factor one would logically at least suspect the one risk factor that was recently introduced.
Yes general triggers of reduced immunity, illness, stress and sometimes randomly with no identifiable trigger
A ctually , no, it wasn't obvious you weren't there for the conversation, your previous post came across to me that you were relaying first hand what the Dr said
Given we dont know exactly what was said and it is being relayed to us 3rd hand, and you seem to have made up your mind already, I am leaving it there.
What I think or even what the individual doctor thinks doesn't matter - what counts is scientific measurable data.
Apologies - it was my DIL that told me what the doctor said - I don’t attend doctor appointments with my grown children never mind my in-laws!
One more question if you don’t mind (sorry to be a pain I am super curious about this) - what “scientifically measurable data” would be applicable here? Is there some way to determine the trigger for an individual case like this? Or any case of shingles really whatever the cause.
Isn’t Bell’s palsy also related to the chicken pox virus reactivating? I’m just reading now that the rate of Bell’s palsy in the phase 3 vaccine trials was 3.5 to 7 times the expected rate.
Anyway I am probably boring people with this now I am finding it super interesting but I’m sure no one else is. Thanks for the discussion!3 -
Doctors are human beings and make wrong calls all the time, IMO.
Agree 100%. A lot of their diagnosis seems to be based on what is most common in patient populations.
Case in point, I've had appendicitis since Jan.1. It took them 19 days to diagnose appendicitis despite characteristic lower right abdominal pain because I was initially told, "No, it can't be appendicitis, it would have ruptured by now" and "No, it can't be appendicitis, you would have been vomiting". Guess what showed up on the CT scan? An inflamed appendix. Chronic appendicitis is far more rare than acute but it does exist, yet all they considered was the acute version.
So frustrating to suffer for 19 days! And not to be heard! Hope you are feeling better.
There is also a prejudice angle with treatment providers not listening to patients. There is a pattern of healthcare providers disregarding certain patient demographic groups (and also worse outcomes among those groups). I always think of poor Serena Williams. She is certainly a rich and famous person. She also previously had a pulmonary embolism, so she knew what it felt like. You would think her treatment team would really pay attention to her! But no. No one in the hospital believed her. Jeez. So dangerous. So hard to wrap my head around that one.
I felt that way when my dad was alive. Because he was elderly, about 88, the ER dr. told him to go back to the nursing home and pinch some nurse's *kitten*. Oh yes, he sure did. He was only at the nursing home temporarily and was waiting for a pacemaker replacement. He started declining awfully fast and the dr. sent him away. The nursing home thankfully refused to take him back(because what did I know, just a pion vs. a dr.?), they shipped right to the VA hospital, had his pacemaker changed within 24 hrs. and stayed with us for a couple more years, doing very well. I know he wouldn't have lasted the week otherwise.
Sometimes elderly people truly get less attention or consideration because their time is limited anyways. To us, he was our one and only dad and we wanted him around as long as we could have him. He did very well those last 2 years.
Still makes me angry all these years later.
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paperpudding wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »Update on the shingles vaccine reaction if anyone is interested. While the urgent care doctor said that she "couldn't rule out" a vaccine reaction, the next day her GP told her definitively that she believes it to be a vaccine reaction. Given her age, general health, and the timing of the rash "you would not have shingles right now if you hadn't had the vaccine".
Don't shoot me I am just the messenger - that is what the doctors are telling us.
Personally it wouldn't dissuade me from getting the vaccine, I do wish that I had a shingles vaccine prior though.
Nobody is or was 'shooting' you
Would be interested to know via what mechanism the Dr thinks covid vaccine brought on shingles - since, as we all know, shingles is caused by re activation of chicken pox virus, dormant in your system since having the primary disease.
Or how he knows she wouldn't have shingles anyway - given young and healthy people can and do get it.
It is her professional opinion given her age, health status and the timing of the illness that it was triggered by the vaccine. I imagine she thinks it was brought on by stressing her immune system enough to reactivate the virus. Of course we will never know for sure, although as time goes on if we start seeing more cases I guess that will give more confirmation.
Ok, so she hasn't said by what mechanism this has happened just her opinion based on something
Her age and health status wouldn't suggest it to me - since since young healthy people do get shingles.
Not as commonly as older people but by no means rare.paperpudding wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »Update on the shingles vaccine reaction if anyone is interested. While the urgent care doctor said that she "couldn't rule out" a vaccine reaction, the next day her GP told her definitively that she believes it to be a vaccine reaction. Given her age, general health, and the timing of the rash "you would not have shingles right now if you hadn't had the vaccine".
Don't shoot me I am just the messenger - that is what the doctors are telling us.
Personally it wouldn't dissuade me from getting the vaccine, I do wish that I had a shingles vaccine prior though.
Nobody is or was 'shooting' you
Would be interested to know via what mechanism the Dr thinks covid vaccine brought on shingles - since, as we all know, shingles is caused by re activation of chicken pox virus, dormant in your system since having the primary disease.
Or how he knows she wouldn't have shingles anyway - given young and healthy people can and do get it.
It is her professional opinion given her age, health status and the timing of the illness that it was triggered by the vaccine. I imagine she thinks it was brought on by stressing her immune system enough to reactivate the virus. Of course we will never know for sure, although as time goes on if we start seeing more cases I guess that will give more confirmation.
Ok, so she hasn't said by what mechanism this has happened just her opinion based on something
Her age and health status wouldn't suggest it to me - since since young healthy people do get shingles.
Not as commonly as older people but by no means rare.
Honestly I wasn’t there (obviously) for the conversation and I didn’t grill my DIL on her exact wording.
So since it wouldn’t suggest it to you what would you suggest might be the cause - what is the usual trigger for shingles in young healthy people? I have mostly read that is triggered by reduced immunity, illness and/or stress. Is it more accurate that the cause is just random chance in your experience?
So correct me if I am wrong but you think it is more likely that this just occurred randomly with no identifiable stressor - than that it is somehow linked to a vaccine that directly affects the immune system? I guess to me with no other risk factor one would logically at least suspect the one risk factor that was recently introduced.
Yes general triggers of reduced immunity, illness, stress and sometimes randomly with no identifiable trigger
A ctually , no, it wasn't obvious you weren't there for the conversation, your previous post came across to me that you were relaying first hand what the Dr said
Given we dont know exactly what was said and it is being relayed to us 3rd hand, and you seem to have made up your mind already, I am leaving it there.
What I think or even what the individual doctor thinks doesn't matter - what counts is scientific measurable data.
Apologies - it was my DIL that told me what the doctor said - I don’t attend doctor appointments with my grown children never mind my in-laws!
One more question if you don’t mind (sorry to be a pain I am super curious about this) - what “scientifically measurable data” would be applicable here? Is there some way to determine the trigger for an individual case like this? Or any case of shingles really whatever the cause.
Isn’t Bell’s palsy also related to the chicken pox virus reactivating? I’m just reading now that the rate of Bell’s palsy in the phase 3 vaccine trials was 3.5 to 7 times the expected rate.
Anyway I am probably boring people with this now I am finding it super interesting but I’m sure no one else is. Thanks for the discussion!
It may surprise you to know that it is not unusual for family members to attend consultations together - not common, but not unusual
So when you wrote Doctor said xyz, it read to me you heard directly what he said.
Which, as you since clarified, you in fact did not.
Scientific data would be objective measurable data - like the incidence of shingles in people x age any given week is y, incidence within a week after x vaccine is that. Is x the same or greater than y.
In Australia anyway,that would be easy data to obtain - shingles is a notifiable disease, vaccines are all recorded on a national registry. Easy job for data collectors to cross reference the two and see if any correlating increase in numbers.
That is what counts,not unsubstantiated opinions
No there is no way to quantify exact trigger, if any,or several, for an individual.
Bells palsy is though to be related to swelling post viral or bacterial infections, some more commonly than others.
By no means only or mostly varicella. Many viruses.
Sometimes also occurs randomly - or without obvious pre infection.6 -
paperpudding wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »Update on the shingles vaccine reaction if anyone is interested. While the urgent care doctor said that she "couldn't rule out" a vaccine reaction, the next day her GP told her definitively that she believes it to be a vaccine reaction. Given her age, general health, and the timing of the rash "you would not have shingles right now if you hadn't had the vaccine".
Don't shoot me I am just the messenger - that is what the doctors are telling us.
Personally it wouldn't dissuade me from getting the vaccine, I do wish that I had a shingles vaccine prior though.
Nobody is or was 'shooting' you
Would be interested to know via what mechanism the Dr thinks covid vaccine brought on shingles - since, as we all know, shingles is caused by re activation of chicken pox virus, dormant in your system since having the primary disease.
Or how he knows she wouldn't have shingles anyway - given young and healthy people can and do get it.
It is her professional opinion given her age, health status and the timing of the illness that it was triggered by the vaccine. I imagine she thinks it was brought on by stressing her immune system enough to reactivate the virus. Of course we will never know for sure, although as time goes on if we start seeing more cases I guess that will give more confirmation.
Ok, so she hasn't said by what mechanism this has happened just her opinion based on something
Her age and health status wouldn't suggest it to me - since since young healthy people do get shingles.
Not as commonly as older people but by no means rare.paperpudding wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »Update on the shingles vaccine reaction if anyone is interested. While the urgent care doctor said that she "couldn't rule out" a vaccine reaction, the next day her GP told her definitively that she believes it to be a vaccine reaction. Given her age, general health, and the timing of the rash "you would not have shingles right now if you hadn't had the vaccine".
Don't shoot me I am just the messenger - that is what the doctors are telling us.
Personally it wouldn't dissuade me from getting the vaccine, I do wish that I had a shingles vaccine prior though.
Nobody is or was 'shooting' you
Would be interested to know via what mechanism the Dr thinks covid vaccine brought on shingles - since, as we all know, shingles is caused by re activation of chicken pox virus, dormant in your system since having the primary disease.
Or how he knows she wouldn't have shingles anyway - given young and healthy people can and do get it.
It is her professional opinion given her age, health status and the timing of the illness that it was triggered by the vaccine. I imagine she thinks it was brought on by stressing her immune system enough to reactivate the virus. Of course we will never know for sure, although as time goes on if we start seeing more cases I guess that will give more confirmation.
Ok, so she hasn't said by what mechanism this has happened just her opinion based on something
Her age and health status wouldn't suggest it to me - since since young healthy people do get shingles.
Not as commonly as older people but by no means rare.
Honestly I wasn’t there (obviously) for the conversation and I didn’t grill my DIL on her exact wording.
So since it wouldn’t suggest it to you what would you suggest might be the cause - what is the usual trigger for shingles in young healthy people? I have mostly read that is triggered by reduced immunity, illness and/or stress. Is it more accurate that the cause is just random chance in your experience?
So correct me if I am wrong but you think it is more likely that this just occurred randomly with no identifiable stressor - than that it is somehow linked to a vaccine that directly affects the immune system? I guess to me with no other risk factor one would logically at least suspect the one risk factor that was recently introduced.
Yes general triggers of reduced immunity, illness, stress and sometimes randomly with no identifiable trigger
A ctually , no, it wasn't obvious you weren't there for the conversation, your previous post came across to me that you were relaying first hand what the Dr said
Given we dont know exactly what was said and it is being relayed to us 3rd hand, and you seem to have made up your mind already, I am leaving it there.
What I think or even what the individual doctor thinks doesn't matter - what counts is scientific measurable data.
Apologies - it was my DIL that told me what the doctor said - I don’t attend doctor appointments with my grown children never mind my in-laws!
One more question if you don’t mind (sorry to be a pain I am super curious about this) - what “scientifically measurable data” would be applicable here? Is there some way to determine the trigger for an individual case like this? Or any case of shingles really whatever the cause.
Isn’t Bell’s palsy also related to the chicken pox virus reactivating? I’m just reading now that the rate of Bell’s palsy in the phase 3 vaccine trials was 3.5 to 7 times the expected rate.
Anyway I am probably boring people with this now I am finding it super interesting but I’m sure no one else is. Thanks for the discussion!
It may surprise you to know that it is not unusual for family members to attend consultations together - not common, but not unusual
So when you wrote Doctor said xyz, it read to me you heard directly what he said.
Which, as you since clarified, you in fact did not.
Scientific data would be objective measurable data - like the incidence of shingles in people x age any given week is y, incidence within a week after x vaccine is that. Is x the same or greater than y.
In Australia anyway,that would be easy data to obtain - shingles is a notifiable disease, vaccines are all recorded on a national registry. Easy job for data collectors to cross reference the two and see if any correlating increase in numbers.
That is what counts,not unsubstantiated opinions
No there is no way to quantify exact trigger, if any,or several, for an individual.
Bells palsy is though to be related to swelling post viral or bacterial infections, some more commonly than others.
By no means only or mostly varicella. Many viruses.
Sometimes also occurs randomly - or without obvious pre infection.
Thanks for the reply! I guess for the data we will have to wait then to see what happens - we are mostly only vaccinating the elderly - she works in health care (dental) so that’s why she got it early-ish. Maybe when the general population gets it there will be more data available.
Not that it matters so much anyway to us - she has it now so it is what it is. It’s mostly just an intellectual curiosity at this point.
I guess you will be busy soon with your own vaccine rollout. Good luck with that!
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This could be controversial, but I'm just reporting, having found it . . . remarkable.
I mentioned here that I got the Pfizer vax, shot 1, yesterday (zero side effects by the way, not even arm soreness). I also posted about it on Facebook, saying I was happy to finally get it after a long time on the waiting list.
Reply to that from someone I know (who was serious, BTW): "You're thrilled over an unknown microchip that how many doctors and experts have said only does bad things, including taking away specific emotions? Good luck".
I responded: "Giddy, even . . . so that must not be one of the problem emotions."
So: Watch out for missing emotions, I guess, vaccinated people? 😦
P.S. No, I don't believe this.
I wonder how these people feel about things like heart pacers, metal screws and plates used to fix broken bones and modern diabetes treatment.
A colleague has type 1 diabetes and just got a new blood sugar measuring thing installed, it’s some kind of button attached to his arm that sends measurements to some app on his phone when he presses a button on the app, apparently. We had a good laugh at the office about his willingness to microchip himself and that he’s now literally a cyborg. We all unanimously congratulated him on his cool new tool that helps him monitor his health and hoped for a chance to ”microchip ourselves with covid vaccine”. (None of us think there is a microchip in the vaccine, we’re being sarcastic)
I’m kind of intrigued to know what these vaccine=microchip people would think about my colleague’s new diabetes tool.
In this case that I mentioned, the person who made the "microchip" comment has certainly had screws and plates, but no pacemaker that I know of. I believe she's T2D, but I'm not sure how treated. I'm certain she's had other vaccinations, too, some relatively recently, but this one is suspect, to her.
Very specific to this case, though I wouldn't generalize: This is a reasonably intelligent person, but with what I consider to be a very slight paranoid streak (not to the point of clinical symptoms). Even in her personal life, she tends to interpret events (that look neutral to me) as being about or aimed at her, and negative; she tends to think people are hiding the truth from her. She likes to feel that she has insider information that others don't have, in a hobby interest that we both share, as well as in the political sphere. She shares the "insider information" freely with others (hobby and political). She is a "do your own research" type, but that research tends to be following chains of information that appeal to her, from one source to the related next one. She doesn't reach outside the chain looking for countering opinions. In the shared-hobby realm, this habit is fine, productive and rewarding. In the political realm, it heads - for my taste - quickly way off into the deep, deep weeds.
This person is not the only one I know who has had other vaccinations (and I think would still get their kids vaccinated for the basics, if they were that age), but who believes the Covid vaccine is dangerous. This person is the most extreme case, in what they believe about it, though.
On another front, one of the most fervent across-the-board anti-vaxers I know (a different person) is also one of the most tatted up. Given what's coming out recently about some of the inks, and how they're regulated, that case makes me wonder. Not going to rip open that can of worms by asking, though. 🤷♀️
On a very sad note, I have to say that today in Belgium a lawsuit has been filed against a group called "Doctors for Freedom" (rough translation). It is a group of GP's and surgeons that have been promoting antivax theory, adding that the whole Covid situation is a hoax created by governments and probably Bill Clinton. They have done this indirectly through social media and house to house distribution of pamphlets, but also directly advising their patients to stay away from the vaccine. And yes, these are doctors !! I can't wrap my head around this!
The lawsuit claims that they are risking peoples' lives and that they are undermining healthcare by promoting false information. I'm curious about the outcome and I'll keep my fingers crossed that it will be for once and for all a good precedent to discourage non-evidence based medicine.
15 -
Antiopelle wrote: »This could be controversial, but I'm just reporting, having found it . . . remarkable.
I mentioned here that I got the Pfizer vax, shot 1, yesterday (zero side effects by the way, not even arm soreness). I also posted about it on Facebook, saying I was happy to finally get it after a long time on the waiting list.
Reply to that from someone I know (who was serious, BTW): "You're thrilled over an unknown microchip that how many doctors and experts have said only does bad things, including taking away specific emotions? Good luck".
I responded: "Giddy, even . . . so that must not be one of the problem emotions."
So: Watch out for missing emotions, I guess, vaccinated people? 😦
P.S. No, I don't believe this.
I wonder how these people feel about things like heart pacers, metal screws and plates used to fix broken bones and modern diabetes treatment.
A colleague has type 1 diabetes and just got a new blood sugar measuring thing installed, it’s some kind of button attached to his arm that sends measurements to some app on his phone when he presses a button on the app, apparently. We had a good laugh at the office about his willingness to microchip himself and that he’s now literally a cyborg. We all unanimously congratulated him on his cool new tool that helps him monitor his health and hoped for a chance to ”microchip ourselves with covid vaccine”. (None of us think there is a microchip in the vaccine, we’re being sarcastic)
I’m kind of intrigued to know what these vaccine=microchip people would think about my colleague’s new diabetes tool.
In this case that I mentioned, the person who made the "microchip" comment has certainly had screws and plates, but no pacemaker that I know of. I believe she's T2D, but I'm not sure how treated. I'm certain she's had other vaccinations, too, some relatively recently, but this one is suspect, to her.
Very specific to this case, though I wouldn't generalize: This is a reasonably intelligent person, but with what I consider to be a very slight paranoid streak (not to the point of clinical symptoms). Even in her personal life, she tends to interpret events (that look neutral to me) as being about or aimed at her, and negative; she tends to think people are hiding the truth from her. She likes to feel that she has insider information that others don't have, in a hobby interest that we both share, as well as in the political sphere. She shares the "insider information" freely with others (hobby and political). She is a "do your own research" type, but that research tends to be following chains of information that appeal to her, from one source to the related next one. She doesn't reach outside the chain looking for countering opinions. In the shared-hobby realm, this habit is fine, productive and rewarding. In the political realm, it heads - for my taste - quickly way off into the deep, deep weeds.
This person is not the only one I know who has had other vaccinations (and I think would still get their kids vaccinated for the basics, if they were that age), but who believes the Covid vaccine is dangerous. This person is the most extreme case, in what they believe about it, though.
On another front, one of the most fervent across-the-board anti-vaxers I know (a different person) is also one of the most tatted up. Given what's coming out recently about some of the inks, and how they're regulated, that case makes me wonder. Not going to rip open that can of worms by asking, though. 🤷♀️
On a very sad note, I have to say that today in Belgium a lawsuit has been filed against a group called "Doctors for Freedom" (rough translation). It is a group of GP's and surgeons that have been promoting antivax theory, adding that the whole Covid situation is a hoax created by governments and probably Bill Clinton. They have done this indirectly through social media and house to house distribution of pamphlets, but also directly advising their patients to stay away from the vaccine. And yes, these are doctors !! I can't wrap my head around this!
The lawsuit claims that they are risking peoples' lives and that they are undermining healthcare by promoting false information. I'm curious about the outcome and I'll keep my fingers crossed that it will be for once and for all a good precedent to discourage non-evidence based medicine.
Do you know if Belgium has a way of limiting doctors' medical licenses based on malpractice? At least in Finland a fairly well-known "alternative treatment" doctor got a note on his record, next step is removal of medical license. His case wasn't related to covid, but he's a firm believer in diet being a solution to everything, including cancer, and he risked his patients' lives by recommending a keto diet as cancer treatment instead of, well, actual cancer treatment. The case has a lot of parallels to these anti-vax covid doctors.
On a personal note, my MIL is a big fan of this doctor (he's written books) and I'm about to lose it. The main reason I don't want to tell her we're expecting a baby is the fact that we know she will try to meddle with my prenatal medical care and diet because "she knows best". She has zero medical training, and she's really into this "right food fixes everything" mindset and used to own a store that sells "natural" herbal remedies, so she thinks she's more informed than medical professionals and knows things that medical science somehow can't prove, and now she has this licensed doctor to support her ideas. She has tried to meddle with my medical care before, in really pushy and offensive ways, and if she still doesn't believe that we don't want her "medical" help I'll have to tell her she won't be allowed to meet her grandchild if she can't keep her medical and dietary opinions to herself. On the positive side, at least she believes the pandemic is real.14 -
Antiopelle wrote: »This could be controversial, but I'm just reporting, having found it . . . remarkable.
I mentioned here that I got the Pfizer vax, shot 1, yesterday (zero side effects by the way, not even arm soreness). I also posted about it on Facebook, saying I was happy to finally get it after a long time on the waiting list.
Reply to that from someone I know (who was serious, BTW): "You're thrilled over an unknown microchip that how many doctors and experts have said only does bad things, including taking away specific emotions? Good luck".
I responded: "Giddy, even . . . so that must not be one of the problem emotions."
So: Watch out for missing emotions, I guess, vaccinated people? 😦
P.S. No, I don't believe this.
I wonder how these people feel about things like heart pacers, metal screws and plates used to fix broken bones and modern diabetes treatment.
A colleague has type 1 diabetes and just got a new blood sugar measuring thing installed, it’s some kind of button attached to his arm that sends measurements to some app on his phone when he presses a button on the app, apparently. We had a good laugh at the office about his willingness to microchip himself and that he’s now literally a cyborg. We all unanimously congratulated him on his cool new tool that helps him monitor his health and hoped for a chance to ”microchip ourselves with covid vaccine”. (None of us think there is a microchip in the vaccine, we’re being sarcastic)
I’m kind of intrigued to know what these vaccine=microchip people would think about my colleague’s new diabetes tool.
In this case that I mentioned, the person who made the "microchip" comment has certainly had screws and plates, but no pacemaker that I know of. I believe she's T2D, but I'm not sure how treated. I'm certain she's had other vaccinations, too, some relatively recently, but this one is suspect, to her.
Very specific to this case, though I wouldn't generalize: This is a reasonably intelligent person, but with what I consider to be a very slight paranoid streak (not to the point of clinical symptoms). Even in her personal life, she tends to interpret events (that look neutral to me) as being about or aimed at her, and negative; she tends to think people are hiding the truth from her. She likes to feel that she has insider information that others don't have, in a hobby interest that we both share, as well as in the political sphere. She shares the "insider information" freely with others (hobby and political). She is a "do your own research" type, but that research tends to be following chains of information that appeal to her, from one source to the related next one. She doesn't reach outside the chain looking for countering opinions. In the shared-hobby realm, this habit is fine, productive and rewarding. In the political realm, it heads - for my taste - quickly way off into the deep, deep weeds.
This person is not the only one I know who has had other vaccinations (and I think would still get their kids vaccinated for the basics, if they were that age), but who believes the Covid vaccine is dangerous. This person is the most extreme case, in what they believe about it, though.
On another front, one of the most fervent across-the-board anti-vaxers I know (a different person) is also one of the most tatted up. Given what's coming out recently about some of the inks, and how they're regulated, that case makes me wonder. Not going to rip open that can of worms by asking, though. 🤷♀️
On a very sad note, I have to say that today in Belgium a lawsuit has been filed against a group called "Doctors for Freedom" (rough translation). It is a group of GP's and surgeons that have been promoting antivax theory, adding that the whole Covid situation is a hoax created by governments and probably Bill Clinton. They have done this indirectly through social media and house to house distribution of pamphlets, but also directly advising their patients to stay away from the vaccine. And yes, these are doctors !! I can't wrap my head around this!
The lawsuit claims that they are risking peoples' lives and that they are undermining healthcare by promoting false information. I'm curious about the outcome and I'll keep my fingers crossed that it will be for once and for all a good precedent to discourage non-evidence based medicine.
Do you know if Belgium has a way of limiting doctors' medical licenses based on malpractice? At least in Finland a fairly well-known "alternative treatment" doctor got a note on his record, next step is removal of medical license. His case wasn't related to covid, but he's a firm believer in diet being a solution to everything, including cancer, and he risked his patients' lives by recommending a keto diet as cancer treatment instead of, well, actual cancer treatment. The case has a lot of parallels to these anti-vax covid doctors.
On a personal note, my MIL is a big fan of this doctor (he's written books) and I'm about to lose it. The main reason I don't want to tell her we're expecting a baby is the fact that we know she will try to meddle with my prenatal medical care and diet because "she knows best". She has zero medical training, and she's really into this "right food fixes everything" mindset and used to own a store that sells "natural" herbal remedies, so she thinks she's more informed than medical professionals and knows things that medical science somehow can't prove, and now she has this licensed doctor to support her ideas. She has tried to meddle with my medical care before, in really pushy and offensive ways, and if she still doesn't believe that we don't want her "medical" help I'll have to tell her she won't be allowed to meet her grandchild if she can't keep her medical and dietary opinions to herself. On the positive side, at least she believes the pandemic is real.
Yes, indeed, this is the aim of the lawsuit.
6 -
Considering the new variants roaming around, I (personally) will take these recommendations with a grain of salt. I will have no problem meeting with fully vaccinated people, while keeping still distance (no hugs or kisses unless they are wearing masks). But that is just me; I am too old to take unnecessary chances
Vaccinated Americans can gather inside without masks or social distancing in certain circumstances, CDC guidelines say
“You can visit your grandparents if you’ve been vaccinated and they have been, too,” CDC director Dr. Rochelle Walensky said in a White House briefing Monday. “If grandparents have been vaccinated, they can visit their daughter and her family even if they have not been vaccinated, so long as the daughter and her family are not at risk for severe disease.”
Vaccinated individuals should still wear a mask and social distance in public settings and avoid medium- to large-sized gatherings. The agency has yet to release updated guidelines on travel for those who have been vaccinated. Current CDC guidelines recommend delaying travel but provide a list of public health measures in the case that someone must travel.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2021/03/08/covid-vaccine-cdc-releases-new-guidelines-vaccinated-americans/6917770002/
2 -
Good news today, both my husband and I are scheduled for our first dose of the Moderna vaccine on Thursday morning. It’s a relief, especially for my husband, as he’s an essential worker, has health issues and is in the over 65 group. I’m happy I’m getting it as well, even though I’m retired, and pretty much stay home. The first thing my daughter said when I told her we’re scheduled was, “good, now I can hug you!”13
-
This could be controversial, but I'm just reporting, having found it . . . remarkable.
I mentioned here that I got the Pfizer vax, shot 1, yesterday (zero side effects by the way, not even arm soreness). I also posted about it on Facebook, saying I was happy to finally get it after a long time on the waiting list.
Reply to that from someone I know (who was serious, BTW): "You're thrilled over an unknown microchip that how many doctors and experts have said only does bad things, including taking away specific emotions? Good luck".
I responded: "Giddy, even . . . so that must not be one of the problem emotions."
So: Watch out for missing emotions, I guess, vaccinated people? 😦
P.S. No, I don't believe this.
I wonder how these people feel about things like heart pacers, metal screws and plates used to fix broken bones and modern diabetes treatment.
A colleague has type 1 diabetes and just got a new blood sugar measuring thing installed, it’s some kind of button attached to his arm that sends measurements to some app on his phone when he presses a button on the app, apparently. We had a good laugh at the office about his willingness to microchip himself and that he’s now literally a cyborg. We all unanimously congratulated him on his cool new tool that helps him monitor his health and hoped for a chance to ”microchip ourselves with covid vaccine”. (None of us think there is a microchip in the vaccine, we’re being sarcastic)
I’m kind of intrigued to know what these vaccine=microchip people would think about my colleague’s new diabetes tool.
These nut jobs literally believe that Bill Gates created the virus as well as the vaccine in order to chip people. I mean...I really don't understand how people can even get into this kind of conspiracy stuff without thinking to themselves..."I sound like an idiot"9 -
I am just now eligible to get the vaccine in TN. I move to TX in a week and won't be eligible there for a few months, it appears. So I am getting the first dose tomorrow here. The second dose, I'll have to figure out later and may be more delayed than most. But from what I can tell, the first vaccine still offers a lot of protection, so I am not willing to wait just for convenience.13
-
This could be controversial, but I'm just reporting, having found it . . . remarkable.
I mentioned here that I got the Pfizer vax, shot 1, yesterday (zero side effects by the way, not even arm soreness). I also posted about it on Facebook, saying I was happy to finally get it after a long time on the waiting list.
Reply to that from someone I know (who was serious, BTW): "You're thrilled over an unknown microchip that how many doctors and experts have said only does bad things, including taking away specific emotions? Good luck".
I responded: "Giddy, even . . . so that must not be one of the problem emotions."
So: Watch out for missing emotions, I guess, vaccinated people? 😦
P.S. No, I don't believe this.
This is true. 100%. I have had 2 doses of the Pfizer shot (my husband too, since we're both in Early Childhood Education), and we are now nearly free of anxiety, fear, worry and uncertainty.
AND... I got to hug my 86 year old parents yesterday for the first time in a year. They have been fully vaccinated for 4 weeks. They both cried. It felt so good
17 -
I listened to a TWIV quick clinical update with some interesting stuff:
They did a quick update on the J&J vaccine now that more data has been released. They said after 28 days, J&J had a 100% effective rate as far as preventing disease requiring serious medical intervention or hospitalization. They also PCR tested everyone between 29 and 71 days after the one shot for viral particles that would show some level of asymptomatic infection leading to spread and found the vaccine was 74% effective overall. Especially considering this trial was run after some of the more worrisome variants are out there, this is another hint that the vaccines will at least greatly reduce transmission, which is kind of awesome.
Still early, but no serious side effects have been reported yet, just soar arm and fatigue. They noted that J&J uses the same vaccine platform for their ebola vaccine, which has been given to over 200,000 people over the last decade, so there is every reason to be confident in the safety.
They also mentioned that many studies are now showing no benefit to treatment with convalescent plasma, it just doesn't seem to help at all.
The standard at this point is monoclonal antibodies early in disease, and steroids in those who are very ill. If you test positive and have ANY increased risk factors, you should advocate for yourself and make sure you get the monoclonal antibody serum if at all positive.10
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