Coronavirus prep
Replies
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They discussed A-Z on TWIV in more depth this week. To boil it down, they said the incidence of blood clots was no greater than in the general pop, BUT acknowledged the fact that those few affected were under 55 women was unusual,as we're the specifics of the cases. They said that while it could be coincidental, it requires study. However, they said that you still have a better chance right now of getting a bad case of covid than you do of getting dangerous blood clots from the A-Z vaccine, so they don't think countries who are relying on A-Z should withdraw it and risk prolonging the pandemic.
There was a deep dive discussion on the differences between A-Z and the other major vaccines, and I was not able to follow any of it
They also mentioned that there's been a lot of "drama" around the A-Z trial and rollout and while they're convinced the A-Z vaccine is a good vaccine, it's a shame A-Z has made such a mess of the whole thing.
The article I read said that the blood clot reaction was similar to a rare reaction one might get with other drugs, specifically heparin, and it is similar to a rare auto immune response. Of course if you are taking one of the drugs that also rarely causes this reaction (like heparin I guess) you would weigh the risks against the benefits of the drug for whatever problem you are treating.
The problem with the vaccine causing the same reaction is that you are giving it to young healthy people who are not ill yet and may never be - so the risk assessment gets a little more tricky. That's the summary I read about it anyway - I guess we will see what Canada decides on it. I agree though they did make a mess of it - I don't know if the Astra Zeneca vaccine will ever be well accepted here now.
Heparin is a blood thinner. I didn’t realize clots were a potential side effect.1 -
MikePfirrman wrote: »MikePfirrman wrote: »Just something that happened yesterday to me unusual during my workout. Don't know if it had anything to do with the shot on Friday or not, but I push my workouts pretty hard (I do cardio 6 days a week for around an hour a day).
Did a 1K (machine) row TT (timed test). I know it's an odd thing to do -- my version of pushing hard on the treadmill but the treadmill is a rower instead. I was feeling a bit off yesterday AM, but it's not that unusual for me to push hard when I'm not feeling 100%. This is the rowing machine equivalent of an 800m all out run. I did a warmup as well (1000 meters, around five minutes). I do this type of stuff often, two times a week, so this isn't anything out of the ordinary. I often do 500m X 8 (half the distance, a little less hard, but 8 reps) once or twice a month. Usually my HR drops like a rock during recovery, which is a good sign.
Yesterday was different. HR stayed high, had a nasty cough and felt like garbage. Maybe the coughing had a lot to do with the HR not dropping, but it took like 10 minutes for the HR to drop back to normal from significantly elevated. Perhaps the shot along with allergens in the air and just a bit of a warmer day. Felt like exercise induced asthma that lasted for hours, severe for around 30 to 40 minutes. I've had exercise induced asthma years ago in my youth, when I was in way worse aerobic shape than I am now, but nothing like this in the last 10 years, so I felt the timing to be odd.
I can't seem to find any advice except for "exercise as normal" related to the vaccines. Maybe just a one off day for me. Who knows. In general, it's not a great idea to push hard unless you feel 100%, so certainly partly my fault, but I certainly won't be pushing my HR past 90% max again until I'm feeling 100% from this round or the second Pfizer shot.
Asthma is frequently an autoimmune issue, so maybe your immune system, being triggered after the vax, then flared up with a bit of your old exercise-induced asthma? When I got COVID last March, I developed some pretty nasty, progressively worse asthma in the weeks and months after. Never needed an inhaler before COVID, but now I have two, even a full year later. It took about 9 months to get my running pace back to something near normal. I'm also the type who works out vigorously most days of the week. I wonder if you would have developed full blown asthma like I did, if you'd had COVID. At least now you're vaxxed, so you probably won't have to find out!
That makes sense. I don't know, but it's the only time I've ever taken a baby aspirin after a workout and thought, this might be what a heart attack feels like! But no tightness in chest and no pain, other than not being able to breath well and the wind pipe feeling like it was constricting. Super slow day today and feeling much better.
I big part of the reason I moved to AZ from Ohio was, of all things, I was allergic to fresh cut grass. I started to go anaphylactic a couple of times there mowing the lawn. It is indeed scary when you suddenly can't breath. There's also a ton of pollen out right now in Tucson. We have these little yellow weeds that are all over. Brittlebush is the nickname for it. This is pretty much similar to the hill behind my house right now.
https://www.fs.fed.us/database/feis/plants/shrub/encfar/all.html
I'm glad you're getting back to your normal paces again. That's frustrating to work that hard and have a huge setback.
My allergies were terrible in Oklahoma. The cotton. OMG. It could literally catch in your throat and choke you!2 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »I wouldn't be booking anything overseas anywhere for now. There is no guarantee Aussies will be allowed into NZ anytime soon. Only time will tell. Could be a long time yet.
Also I find it crazy sports people are playing still if they aren't 100% sure they don't have Covid. Really. Dumb. Who are the nut jobs in charge that are allowing it to happen without properly testing everyone? Guess money is more important than a couple of weeks off beforehand to make sure everyone is safe. I feel sorry for their families more than anything since they'll be catching it off the players.
Athletes, coaches, etc on sports teams are all tested on a daily basis. Players can also opt out of practicing and playing if they choose.
That daily testing doesn't seem to be working very well does it? Someone a page or two back said they were catching it while playing their sport so obviously they to go into isolation for two weeks before a game. When we had the Australian Open tennis on and international players arrived they had to go into isolation. Some of them got tested before flying over and got here with Covid!
The problem with mitigation testing, even if it's daily, is that it's still just a snapshot of that moment in time. With uncertainty about when exactly a person becomes contagious vs when they test positive for the virus, it's not a perfect system.
Profesional team sports are very different than the one-off events like a tennis tournament.
Pro leagues cannot have their players isolate for the duration of their seasons. Their seasons are many months long, they play multiple times per week and practice nearly every day. They travel, although some leagues here (pro hockey and basketball), have altered their schedules to try to limit travel. You can't ask someone, even someone with a multi-million dollar contract, to stay away from their families for 6 months.
Pro sports is big business, and is still bleeding money, as many teams are still playing in empty arenas. Lots of jobs depend on this industry...and not just the jobs of millionaires and billionaires, so there's a great desire to make it work, even with the risks involved.6 -
SuzySunshine99 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »I wouldn't be booking anything overseas anywhere for now. There is no guarantee Aussies will be allowed into NZ anytime soon. Only time will tell. Could be a long time yet.
Also I find it crazy sports people are playing still if they aren't 100% sure they don't have Covid. Really. Dumb. Who are the nut jobs in charge that are allowing it to happen without properly testing everyone? Guess money is more important than a couple of weeks off beforehand to make sure everyone is safe. I feel sorry for their families more than anything since they'll be catching it off the players.
Athletes, coaches, etc on sports teams are all tested on a daily basis. Players can also opt out of practicing and playing if they choose.
That daily testing doesn't seem to be working very well does it? Someone a page or two back said they were catching it while playing their sport so obviously they to go into isolation for two weeks before a game. When we had the Australian Open tennis on and international players arrived they had to go into isolation. Some of them got tested before flying over and got here with Covid!
The problem with mitigation testing, even if it's daily, is that it's still just a snapshot of that moment in time. With uncertainty about when exactly a person becomes contagious vs when they test positive for the virus, it's not a perfect system.
Profesional team sports are very different than the one-off events like a tennis tournament.
Pro leagues cannot have their players isolate for the duration of their seasons. Their seasons are many months long, they play multiple times per week and practice nearly every day. They travel, although some leagues here (pro hockey and basketball), have altered their schedules to try to limit travel. You can't ask someone, even someone with a multi-million dollar contract, to stay away from their families for 6 months.
Pro sports is big business, and is still bleeding money, as many teams are still playing in empty arenas. Lots of jobs depend on this industry...and not just the jobs of millionaires and billionaires, so there's a great desire to make it work, even with the risks involved.
We ask our service people here in the US to stay away from there families for 6 months on a regular basis and they don't have multimillion $ contracts. God bless them.
With that said, I do hope we can make sports work.14 -
Just curious I haven't really been watching the news. Are they still saying that fully vaccinated people can be asymptomatic & possibly spread Covid? I've read it both ways that yes you can and no you can't.2
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RetiredAndLovingIt wrote: »Just curious I haven't really been watching the news. Are they still saying that fully vaccinated people can be asymptomatic & possibly spread Covid? I've read it both ways that yes you can and no you can't.
The data is starting to show that it's unlikely you can carry and spread it after vaccination, but not impossible. There's no yes or no answer right now. All the variants of the virus make it complicated.5 -
They discussed A-Z on TWIV in more depth this week. To boil it down, they said the incidence of blood clots was no greater than in the general pop, BUT acknowledged the fact that those few affected were under 55 women was unusual,as we're the specifics of the cases. They said that while it could be coincidental, it requires study. However, they said that you still have a better chance right now of getting a bad case of covid than you do of getting dangerous blood clots from the A-Z vaccine, so they don't think countries who are relying on A-Z should withdraw it and risk prolonging the pandemic.
There was a deep dive discussion on the differences between A-Z and the other major vaccines, and I was not able to follow any of it
They also mentioned that there's been a lot of "drama" around the A-Z trial and rollout and while they're convinced the A-Z vaccine is a good vaccine, it's a shame A-Z has made such a mess of the whole thing.
The article I read said that the blood clot reaction was similar to a rare reaction one might get with other drugs, specifically heparin, and it is similar to a rare auto immune response. Of course if you are taking one of the drugs that also rarely causes this reaction (like heparin I guess) you would weigh the risks against the benefits of the drug for whatever problem you are treating.
The problem with the vaccine causing the same reaction is that you are giving it to young healthy people who are not ill yet and may never be - so the risk assessment gets a little more tricky. That's the summary I read about it anyway - I guess we will see what Canada decides on it. I agree though they did make a mess of it - I don't know if the Astra Zeneca vaccine will ever be well accepted here now.
Heparin is a blood thinner. I didn’t realize clots were a potential side effect.
Yes it is given for blood clots - but it does have this same known rare reaction that affects platelet counts (Thrombocytopenia) so treatment with heparin would make the reaction worse. Like anyone who has this rare reaction to the vaccine should not be treated with heparin, is my understanding.
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Does anyone with science knowledge have any ideas as to why one vaccine would trigger this reaction, while similar vaccines created to induce the same immune response wouldn't?
It makes me wonder if it has more to do with the age group targeted by that vaccine, than the specific vaccine itself, and maybe once the other vaccines are used more widely in lower age groups we might run into the same issue with them?1 -
Does anyone with science knowledge have any ideas as to why one vaccine would trigger this reaction, while similar vaccines created to induce the same immune response wouldn't?
It makes me wonder if it has more to do with the age group targeted by that vaccine, than the specific vaccine itself, and maybe once the other vaccines are used more widely in lower age groups we might run into the same issue with them?
Or something about the standard adjunct (inactive) ingredients in one formulation vs. another, in theory. (There are definitely drugs that one can react to poorly because of their inactive ingredients, due to allergies or sensitivities, including - I believe - some other vaccines.)3 -
In Canada (Toronto area), got my first shot today - Pfizer. So far, so good (no side effects or anything yet)!12
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Just popping in with more good news (NOT!). A “double mutant” strain found in NorCal, originated in India.
https://abc7.com/health/new-double-mutant-covid-variant-identified-in-ca/10491246/1 -
Just popping in with more good news (NOT!). A “double mutant” strain found in NorCal, originated in India.
https://abc7.com/health/new-double-mutant-covid-variant-identified-in-ca/10491246/
Wow, that traveled fast. It's only been a couple weeks since I first heard about it in India.1 -
Does anyone with science knowledge have any ideas as to why one vaccine would trigger this reaction, while similar vaccines created to induce the same immune response wouldn't?
It makes me wonder if it has more to do with the age group targeted by that vaccine, than the specific vaccine itself, and maybe once the other vaccines are used more widely in lower age groups we might run into the same issue with them?
The A-Z vaccine sticks the covid-19 spike protein on an inactive chimp adenovirus. They wondered on TWIV if maybe this is a rare side effect of the chimp virus that either wasn't noticed in chimps or is a reaction only in humans. It does seem oddly coincidental that weird blood clot patterns is a possible issue with covid 19 too.
I feel like enough people under 65 have gotten the other shots that there should've been some cases by now if there were going to be, but I don't know for sure what the demographics for each vaccine internationally are. I'd bet someone's got a website keeping track of that somewhere though.7 -
Our town is small, maybe 7K people. This week alone there have been 4 new cases announced at our high school, and one of my former daycare moms and family are in quarantine due to her current daycare's own family being infected, all 3 of them.
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Our Kroger has taken down all their mask required signs at the doors. The state wide mandate ended Monday and people are taking advantage of it. I will still wear a mask until I have had both shots.
Shot 1 is tomorrow morning so we shall see how it goes12 -
Our Kroger has taken down all their mask required signs at the doors. The state wide mandate ended Monday and people are taking advantage of it. I will still wear a mask until I have had both shots.
Shot 1 is tomorrow morning so we shall see how it goes
Must be nice - we are in a modified "lockdown" and today they are going to announce a month long stay at home order.
(When I say "must be nice' I mean it would be nice to live in a jurisdiction where things getting back to "normal" was actually in sight.)4 -
I had an almost immediate reaction to the 2nd Pfizer jab yesterday. It was a drive thru and the line yesterday was crazy long. I was in the car for almost 2 hrs before I got my shot (so I already had to pee like crazy AND had a headache). Anyway, no sooner had the gal came by to write the 15 minute mark on my windshield when I felt my heart start racing. I looked at my watch and it was strange to see it shoot up from the 70's to over 160 within just a few seconds. So I honked my horn a couple times to get their attention and the EMT came over. I know that the increased heart rate could be the first sign of a really bad reaction so I did not wait. But after it spiked up it started to slowly come back down and I never had any trouble breathing or felt too faint. I put my recliner back and my legs up. And then I just waited for about another 30 minutes or so with the EMT checking every 5 min on me. When my HR looked like it was going to stay around 90 or below I left and drove home. And that was it. Altho I am not 24 hrs in yet my arm is a little sore (like the first one) but I did manage a short walk without issues. I think my temp is up just a hair over 98 which is not normal for me in the am when it is usually 97 or so. Luckily I do know deep breathing relaxation exercises so I was doing those most of the time while I was waiting as the EMT thought it might be an anxiety reaction. hahah. might be?? I had NO reaction to the first time except my arm being sore and maybe a small headache and tiredness. maybe. I will take it easy and no running today and possibly tomorrow because the heart thing was pretty dreadful.16
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Does anyone with science knowledge have any ideas as to why one vaccine would trigger this reaction, while similar vaccines created to induce the same immune response wouldn't?
It makes me wonder if it has more to do with the age group targeted by that vaccine, than the specific vaccine itself, and maybe once the other vaccines are used more widely in lower age groups we might run into the same issue with them?
Your talking about the AZ vaccine right? Age has nothing to do with it because children and teens are getting blood clots now so they had to stop testing on them.0 -
Does anyone with science knowledge have any ideas as to why one vaccine would trigger this reaction, while similar vaccines created to induce the same immune response wouldn't?
It makes me wonder if it has more to do with the age group targeted by that vaccine, than the specific vaccine itself, and maybe once the other vaccines are used more widely in lower age groups we might run into the same issue with them?
Your talking about the AZ vaccine right? Age has nothing to do with it because children and teens are getting blood clots now so they had to stop testing on them.
Yes the AZ vaccine.
Do you have a link for that? My understanding is that they stopped it as a precautionary measure - but you are saying kids did actually get blood clots?
Age does seem to have something to do with it as all the cases I believe were in people younger than 60.2 -
The international regulators are looking into this thing, as at 7/4/21,UK, the clotting capabilities and should be giving, if they have not already done so, their opinion today. My understanding is some children were taking part in a pre-trial which is standard with medications and the like. So its not out of the ordinary as a precautionary measure to stop the trial.
I suggest we wait for more information before we miss peddle information.7
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