Coronavirus prep
Replies
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Having a copy on line does not help those without computers............
Those who sign up online obviously have access to a smartphone or computer. The site I went to early on was online sign-up, so I didn't even think about looking for a sheet about side effects since it had been provided when I signed up. I think they did hand me something (I don't recall for sure since I didn't bother looking at it and tossed it later) and they made us wait after to make sure no immediate allergic reaction, and of course one could ask questions of the people there.
I also seriously doubt that anyone who wanted one couldn't ask for one either, but -- more significantly -- the idea that people are vaccine hesitant since hard copies of the warnings are not obviously available for the taking at some (I would bet very few) sites when people went to the sites after having already decided to get the vax makes absolutely no sense.
Those who got the vax at pharmacies (as is more common now since they are available there and have been for months, of course) seem to be saying the sheet is provided, as is the case IME with other vaccines at the pharmacy.6 -
kshama2001 wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »
Of the three 80's+ individuals in our family, only one has a smart phone. As for library, in our town, the library was by pickup only for most of COVID so certainly their computers were useless to people during those times, and that is if people were even willing to go out into a public space like the library.
That said, all three of those people happen to be fully vaccinated so they did get the information they needed in order to decide to get themselves vaccinated.3 -
So, you are happy for 15% of your population to be disadvantaged! Their lives are expected to be lesser? Disadvantage is not necessarily the same as being lazy or inadequate, or having a disability, it can can be down to circumstances beyond their control, being in the wrong place at the wrong time leading to low disposable incomes. These people should have access to good information too and not just about vaccines. It is possible some of these people will have someone who will do research for them, but by no means all. Seems like, devil take the hindmost. Similar to the attitude towards the less developed countries and for the record, I don't like the divisiveness we have here either.2
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What is the argument about handouts? I think we're barking up the wrong tree here. I don't think anyone is influenced either way due to a paper handout. I got one along with some other paperwork, and most people just tossed everything in the trash on their way out.
People who have questions about the vaccine, but don't have internet access, can do it the old-fashioned way and call their doctor.15 -
So, you are happy for 15% of your population to be disadvantaged!
Not sure what you are talking about here. Because they (allegedly, I haven't checked the figures) don't have computers or smartphones? Like kshama said, computers are available in various public places like libraries (and were made available in a homeless shelter I've volunteered at) and when we had virtual school my city made a huge effort to provide all school kids with iPads if they didn't have them (our local public school system is high percentage lower income).
Or do you mean something covid related? I don't believe we've identified any way that people without smartphone or computers are disadvantaged in connection with covid currently.These people should have access to good information too and not just about vaccines.
And they do. As many people pointed out, hard copy warnings/information sheets re the vaccines are commonly provided, and presumably more so at places where they weren't necessarily provided online when one signed up. And while the US is quite varied, I suspect that if you ask for a hard copy sheet most places that didn't routinely have them available (often probably bc sign up was online so online access had been provided) would give you one even if they weren't routinely doing so. I also know that my city has done special outreach since the beginning of vaccine availability to poorer areas of the city (and less white areas of the city), as well as to older folks from less advantaged backgrounds (some 70-y-o doctor in the wealthier burbs usually didn't need such outreach, of course), and that includes providing information in depth about the vaccine, so your knee jerk assumption that people in the US generally -- and especially those who are vaccine hesitant -- are such because hard copy warnings aren't available at vaccine sites (which I don't think is widely true even if it is possible that at the occasional site one for some reason couldn't access them) makes no sense, again. My personal suspicion is that vaccine hesitancy tends to be more associated with internet rabbit holes that push conspiracy theories and fear-mongering about the vaccine than a lack of access to the internet or whether or not sites one visits after deciding to get vaxxed have hard copy sheets about side effects available.
It also strikes me that you are often very quick to interpret anything that is said about the US in the worst possible and stereotypical way.14 -
Having a copy on line does not help those without computers............
The majority of people in the US signed up for their vaccine appointment online (75-80%-ish) Some people who don't use computers (such as some of my older techno-phobic relatives) had their children or friends/others sign up for them online. Those people who had someone else sign up for them online probably didn't see the side effect info, unless they went to a site for the shot - like I did - where even those who signed up online got an info sheet.
Details about the technology issues with sign up, from a well-known mainstream research organization:
https://www.pewresearch.org/internet/2021/09/01/the-role-of-technology-in-covid-19-vaccine-registration/
I feel like you have an inaccurate, incomplete understanding of the circumstances in the US, in this situation, perhaps based on hearing reports of the less well-handled cases and believing those stories are representative.
It's been very far from perfect, but there's just no basis for anyone saying that vaccine hesitancy is because people don't get vaccine side effect info when they go to get the vaccine . . . that doesn't even really hang together as a theory. People who are hesitant or resistant to getting the vaccines are not going to the vaccine sites, so giving everyone there an handout wouldn't be all that helpful against hesitancy, would it? (Extensive other communication measures have been used, including some coverage of common side effects on radio, TV, social media, via community centers, churches that aren't anti-vax, senior citizen organizations, etc.)
In fact, people here are so well-informed about allllll the side effects that in addition to knowing about actual side effects, they even "know" about side effects that don't actually exist. (<= That's a joke, but very dark, sadly not false.)
The semi-organized spreading of false information about the vaccines is one quite major factor causing vaccine hesitance or resistance here . . . though it's not the only cause of hesitancy.14 -
Having a copy on line does not help those without computers............
The majority of people in the US signed up for their vaccine appointment online (75-80%-ish) Some people who don't use computers (such as some of my older techno-phobic relatives) had their children or friends/others sign up for them online. Those people who had someone else sign up for them online probably didn't see the side effect info, unless they went to a site - like I did - where even those who signed up online got an info sheet.
Details about the technology issues with sign up, from a well-known mainstream research organization:
https://www.pewresearch.org/internet/2021/09/01/the-role-of-technology-in-covid-19-vaccine-registration/
I feel like you have an inaccurate, incomplete understanding of the circumstances in the US, in this situation, perhaps based on hearing reports of the less well-handled cases and believing those stories are representative.
It's been very far from perfect, but there's just no basis for anyone saying that vaccine hesitancy is because people don't get vaccine side effect info when they go to get the vaccine . . . that doesn't even really hang together as a theory. People who are hesitant or resistant to getting the vaccines are not going to the vaccine sites, so giving everyone there an handout wouldn't be all that helpful against hesitancy, would it? (Extensive other communication measures have been used, including some coverage of common side effects on radio, TV, social media, via community centers, churches that aren't anti-vax, senior citizen organizations, etc.)
In fact, people here are so well-informed about allllll the side effects that in addition to knowing about actual side effects, they even "know" about side effects that don't actually exist. (<= That's a joke, but very dark, sadly not false.)
The semi-organized spreading of false information about the vaccines is one quite major factor causing vaccine hesitance or resistance here . . . though it's not the only cause of hesitancy.
And where is this semi-organized spreading of false information about the vaccines happening? Online.
https://www.counterhate.com/disinformationdozen
The Disinformation Dozen
Why platforms must act on twelve leading online anti-vaxxers
Just twelve anti-vaxxers are responsible for almost two-thirds of anti-vaccine content circulating on social media platforms. This new analysis of content posted or shared to social media over 812,000 times between February and March uncovers how a tiny group of determined anti-vaxxers is responsible for a tidal wave of disinformation - and shows how platforms can fix it by enforcing their standards.
https://252f2edd-1c8b-49f5-9bb2-cb57bb47e4ba.filesusr.com/ugd/f4d9b9_750e5af82aea4920a270b1c5a8b094c2.pdf
My anti-vax aunt is a long time follower of # 2.13 -
So, you are happy for 15% of your population to be disadvantaged! Their lives are expected to be lesser? Disadvantage is not necessarily the same as being lazy or inadequate, or having a disability, it can can be down to circumstances beyond their control, being in the wrong place at the wrong time leading to low disposable incomes. These people should have access to good information too and not just about vaccines. It is possible some of these people will have someone who will do research for them, but by no means all. Seems like, devil take the hindmost. Similar to the attitude towards the less developed countries and for the record, I don't like the divisiveness we have here either.
If that was in response to my post about 85% of people in the US having a smart phone, what an odd set of conclusions...I'm in the same Political Spectrum neighborhood as Mahatma Gandhi and Nelson Mandela, lol.
My 83 year old mother doesn't have a smart phone, and she is certainly not disadvantaged. Age appears to be more predictive for not having a smart phone than income.
https://www.pewresearch.org/internet/fact-sheet/mobile/10 -
Interestingly, the only handout I can recall getting at the public health unit mass vaccination clinic was my "receipt" with the date/time/type/lot number etc sort of info. I don't think there was anything given about side effects unless you got Astra Zeneca. I had no effects whatsoever so I didn't bother to seek out any information online afterwards.
It doesn't seem to have affected compliance here since we're at 83% of population 12+ fully vaccinated.3 -
kshama2001 wrote: »
Guess what. Not all of us are American for one. I know many without smart phones especially older people and for one my parents wouldn't even think about using a computer at a library since they never used one in their whole lives. They have phones but would never use the internet etc on it. Just because you can doesn't mean the rest of the world is up to it.3 -
kshama2001 wrote: »
Guess what. Not all of us are American for one. I know many without smart phones especially older people and for one my parents wouldn't even think about using a computer at a library since they never used one in their whole lives. They have phones but would never use the internet etc on it. Just because you can doesn't mean the rest of the world is up to it.
The branch of this discussion that started the post you replied to . . . was about people in the US not having access to information about the vaccine at the time of the sign-up or vaccination, more or less. Hence the US being the relevant geographic reference. Someone in the UK was advancing the idea that it was better to be in England, because they got the info in a handout. Around 75-80% of USAians signed up for the vax online, and the info was available where they signed up. 85% of USAians have smartphones. Someone with a smartphone could sign up online, get the info online.
The point was about info being available to USAians, countering the odd idea that people here in the US were vaccine hesitant (or something like that) because we didn't get a handout like they did in the UK.
Of course different things are true in different countries.12 -
kshama2001 wrote: »
Guess what. Not all of us are American for one. I know many without smart phones especially older people and for one my parents wouldn't even think about using a computer at a library since they never used one in their whole lives. They have phones but would never use the internet etc on it. Just because you can doesn't mean the rest of the world is up to it.
The branch of this discussion that started the post you replied to . . . was about people in the US not having access to information about the vaccine at the time of the sign-up or vaccination, more or less. Hence the US being the relevant geographic reference. Someone in the UK was advancing the idea that it was better to be in England, because they got the info in a handout. Around 75-80% of USAians signed up for the vax online, and the info was available where they signed up. 85% of USAians have smartphones. Someone with a smartphone could sign up online, get the info online.
The point was about info being available to USAians, countering the odd idea that people here in the US were vaccine hesitant (or something like that) because we didn't get a handout like they did in the UK.
Of course different things are true in different countries.
No problem.. go on.3 -
kshama2001 wrote: »
OK, but free access to the Internet in public libraries wasn't much help while libraries were closed for in-person services during covid shutdowns. Some libraries have been able lend out hot spot devices, but there's no guarantee that everybody had access. Or that they could afford a device with a user interface to access the Internet if there was a hot spot available to them. Or, if their library was doing in-person services, that the library's hours worked with the their work hours, commuting hours, child-duty hours, etc. I saw something in an advice column recently to the effect that we should always remember "not everybody can." Not everybody can get online.
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lynn_glenmont wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »
OK, but free access to the Internet in public libraries wasn't much help while libraries were closed for in-person services during covid shutdowns. Some libraries have been able lend out hot spot devices, but there's no guarantee that everybody had access. Or that they could afford a device with a user interface to access the Internet if there was a hot spot available to them. Or, if their library was doing in-person services, that the library's hours worked with the their work hours, commuting hours, child-duty hours, etc. I saw something in an advice column recently to the effect that we should always remember "not everybody can." Not everybody can get online.
There are multiple avenues for information. 85% of Americans do have phones with internet. Those with young children would be in the 18-29 or 30-49 age bracket, where only 4-5% don't have smart phones. Here in Massachusetts it was just a few months when both vaccines were available and libraries were shut down. And, as said above, people could also call their doctors.
I'm going to continue to advocate for library use because so many people are not aware of this wonderful free resource.6 -
Guys, given the state of anti-vax misinformation in the US right now, I’m not sure those without internet don’t have an advantage when it comes to being informed about the vaccine.19
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FWIW my mom got her booster today. Her caretaker walked into CVS, said, “this lady is old and has a bunch of health problems,” and they said, “Show us her vax card,” and she handed them the card showing she got her second dose of Pfizer back in January, and they gave her the shot without further discussion. CVS’s website says they aren’t giving boosters yet with the exception of immunocompromised people (which is technically a third dose, not a booster) but the reality is different.8
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Having a copy on line does not help those without computers............
Those who sign up online obviously have access to a smartphone or computer. The site I went to early on was online sign-up, so I didn't even think about looking for a sheet about side effects since it had been provided when I signed up. I think they did hand me something (I don't recall for sure since I didn't bother looking at it and tossed it later) and they made us wait after to make sure no immediate allergic reaction, and of course one could ask questions of the people there.
I also seriously doubt that anyone who wanted one couldn't ask for one either, but -- more significantly -- the idea that people are vaccine hesitant since hard copies of the warnings are not obviously available for the taking at some (I would bet very few) sites when people went to the sites after having already decided to get the vax makes absolutely no sense.
Those who got the vax at pharmacies (as is more common now since they are available there and have been for months, of course) seem to be saying the sheet is provided, as is the case IME with other vaccines at the pharmacy.
I totally agree with you that lack of a hard copy with the information on contraindications and potential side effects was not a factor in people not getting the vaccine. But I remember in the December-February time frame hearing about lots of people who had Internet access and comfort/expertise in using it volunteering their time trying to get appointments for people who lacked access, comfort, or expertise. So not everyone who signed up obviously had access to a smartphone or computer.5 -
Speaking about low income or homeless and lack of resources in the USA.
It was more than a decade ago when I was homeless. But I still keep my ear to the ground on this kind of issue.
Most (not all) homeless people have a phone with at least some internet capability. Even back then that was the case.
If someone doesn’t have that, and they need to look something up, they will ask a friend.
Except for the very most marginalized (severe mental illness while homeless) homeless people do have friendships they rely on for help and companionship. And for absolutely sure they are aware of the virus, and vaccines.
I’m the first to mention inequality and “not everyone can” but I do think by this point in the pandemic the vast majority of people have had access to the necessary information. Whether or not they have chosen to accept it is a different topic.10 -
rheddmobile wrote: »Guys, given the state of anti-vax misinformation in the US right now, I’m not sure those without internet don’t have an advantage when it comes to being informed about the vaccine.
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rheddmobile wrote: »Guys, given the state of anti-vax misinformation in the US right now, I’m not sure those without internet don’t have an advantage when it comes to being informed about the vaccine.
Agreed, I'm not really sure what the point of this whole discussion/argument is. Most of the folks who are anti vaxx or hesitant have access to a ton of info.
There is definitely a segment of the poor/working poor in the US who do not have reliable internet access and, due to no health insurance, don't have a relationship with a primary care physician to get info from. Charitable orgs are working hard to get to them and get them the info and resources they need to get vaxxed. I believe the last article I saw about this estimated them at @ 10% of the US population, but don't quote me on that. These are also people who can't take time off work and may not have reliable transportation. It's important to get these folks vaxxed, but they aren't why the US is falling behind on getting enough people vaxxed.9
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