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Why do people keep defending sugar?

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  • amusedmonkeyamusedmonkey Member Posts: 10,199 Member Member Posts: 10,199 Member
    kimny72 wrote: »
    J72FIT wrote: »
    My personal issue with sugar is that is seems to create cravings for more sugar in me. I definitely feel better when I am limiting its use - but I am also trying to operate of a calorie deficit, so that I don't have that same calorie requirement so some others do. Limiting my sugar makes it easier for me to keep my calories down and cravings under control.

    I do, however, love my fruit. I tend to have a rather large plate of it (cherries, strawberries, blueberries, some grapes) after dinner....I am not sure if this is actually a bad idea or not. Is it particularly detrimental at night? Or is the natural sugar okay? I think I am overdoing it on the fruit, probably. How much is too much?

    Out of curiosity, which foods in particular create the sugar cravings?

    I'm gonna answer for her so she doesn't get jumped on.


    I'm guessing added sugars lead to compulsive eating - like with so many people. Yes, sometimes there is fat involved, but not always. I'll just get that out of the way.

    If I had a science crystal ball, one of the things I would love to study would be the science of cravings. While I believe the magical combo of carbs/fat/low-fiber is as close to a holy grail of cravings-causer as there is (because it was literally designed to do that), on a personal level cravings seem to me to be a bizarre combination of biology, psychology, and habit. Some people say sweetened drinks make them hungry, others say they actually satisfy a snack craving and keep them from eating too much. I eat one peanut and something triggers in my brain to eat anything not nailed down in my apartment, others say a handful of nuts will satisfy them so much they might forget to eat their next meal.

    Anyway, I'm fascinated by it :lol:

    And that posters large plate of fruit habit is making me crave the nectarines and cherries I bought yesterday that are sitting in the fridge!
    ccrdragon wrote: »
    kimny72 wrote: »
    J72FIT wrote: »
    My personal issue with sugar is that is seems to create cravings for more sugar in me. I definitely feel better when I am limiting its use - but I am also trying to operate of a calorie deficit, so that I don't have that same calorie requirement so some others do. Limiting my sugar makes it easier for me to keep my calories down and cravings under control.

    I do, however, love my fruit. I tend to have a rather large plate of it (cherries, strawberries, blueberries, some grapes) after dinner....I am not sure if this is actually a bad idea or not. Is it particularly detrimental at night? Or is the natural sugar okay? I think I am overdoing it on the fruit, probably. How much is too much?

    Out of curiosity, which foods in particular create the sugar cravings?

    I'm gonna answer for her so she doesn't get jumped on.


    I'm guessing added sugars lead to compulsive eating - like with so many people. Yes, sometimes there is fat involved, but not always. I'll just get that out of the way.

    If I had a science crystal ball, one of the things I would love to study would be the science of cravings. While I believe the magical combo of carbs/fat/low-fiber is as close to a holy grail of cravings-causer as there is (because it was literally designed to do that), on a personal level cravings seem to me to be a bizarre combination of biology, psychology, and habit. Some people say sweetened drinks make them hungry, others say they actually satisfy a snack craving and keep them from eating too much. I eat one peanut and something triggers in my brain to eat anything not nailed down in my apartment, others say a handful of nuts will satisfy them so much they might forget to eat their next meal.

    Anyway, I'm fascinated by it :lol:

    And that posters large plate of fruit habit is making me crave the nectarines and cherries I bought yesterday that are sitting in the fridge!

    I have this same issue with peanut butter - I eat one spoonful and it's open season on the rest of the jar... fruit and other sweets, meh. An occasional piece of candy, a handful of blueberries or a banana and I'm good. As I have said before in the thread, sweets (read sugar), are not my downfall... savory foods on the other hand...

    I'm that weird person who knows a 3000 calorie day eminent at the sight of any type of whole nuts but can calmly have a small peanut butter jar in the fridge for an entire month. Ice cream? I've had a family tub in the freezer for so long it's starting to get icy, and it's a flavor I really like, but give me dates and I won't rest until they're gone. Can't have Nutella in the house, but a 35 piece mini truffle bag has been sitting on my desk for 3 weeks.
  • ritzvinritzvin Member, Premium Posts: 2,696 Member Member, Premium Posts: 2,696 Member
    kimny72 wrote: »
    J72FIT wrote: »
    My personal issue with sugar is that is seems to create cravings for more sugar in me. I definitely feel better when I am limiting its use - but I am also trying to operate of a calorie deficit, so that I don't have that same calorie requirement so some others do. Limiting my sugar makes it easier for me to keep my calories down and cravings under control.

    I do, however, love my fruit. I tend to have a rather large plate of it (cherries, strawberries, blueberries, some grapes) after dinner....I am not sure if this is actually a bad idea or not. Is it particularly detrimental at night? Or is the natural sugar okay? I think I am overdoing it on the fruit, probably. How much is too much?

    Out of curiosity, which foods in particular create the sugar cravings?

    I'm gonna answer for her so she doesn't get jumped on.


    I'm guessing added sugars lead to compulsive eating - like with so many people. Yes, sometimes there is fat involved, but not always. I'll just get that out of the way.

    If I had a science crystal ball, one of the things I would love to study would be the science of cravings. While I believe the magical combo of carbs/fat/low-fiber is as close to a holy grail of cravings-causer as there is (because it was literally designed to do that), on a personal level cravings seem to me to be a bizarre combination of biology, psychology, and habit. Some people say sweetened drinks make them hungry, others say they actually satisfy a snack craving and keep them from eating too much. I eat one peanut and something triggers in my brain to eat anything not nailed down in my apartment, others say a handful of nuts will satisfy them so much they might forget to eat their next meal.

    Anyway, I'm fascinated by it :lol:

    And that posters large plate of fruit habit is making me crave the nectarines and cherries I bought yesterday that are sitting in the fridge!


    My guess on the bolded is that it's largely (though not all) 1 of 2 things: [1] It occupies the hands, mouth in possible times of 'boredom snacking' (you're not otherwise actively doing something and food is there in front of you), and/or [2] some people will get hunger cues when they are actually just thirsty.
  • ritzvinritzvin Member, Premium Posts: 2,696 Member Member, Premium Posts: 2,696 Member
    kimny72 wrote: »
    J72FIT wrote: »
    My personal issue with sugar is that is seems to create cravings for more sugar in me. I definitely feel better when I am limiting its use - but I am also trying to operate of a calorie deficit, so that I don't have that same calorie requirement so some others do. Limiting my sugar makes it easier for me to keep my calories down and cravings under control.

    I do, however, love my fruit. I tend to have a rather large plate of it (cherries, strawberries, blueberries, some grapes) after dinner....I am not sure if this is actually a bad idea or not. Is it particularly detrimental at night? Or is the natural sugar okay? I think I am overdoing it on the fruit, probably. How much is too much?

    Out of curiosity, which foods in particular create the sugar cravings?

    I'm gonna answer for her so she doesn't get jumped on.


    I'm guessing added sugars lead to compulsive eating - like with so many people. Yes, sometimes there is fat involved, but not always. I'll just get that out of the way.

    If I had a science crystal ball, one of the things I would love to study would be the science of cravings. While I believe the magical combo of carbs/fat/low-fiber is as close to a holy grail of cravings-causer as there is (because it was literally designed to do that), on a personal level cravings seem to me to be a bizarre combination of biology, psychology, and habit. Some people say sweetened drinks make them hungry, others say they actually satisfy a snack craving and keep them from eating too much. I eat one peanut and something triggers in my brain to eat anything not nailed down in my apartment, others say a handful of nuts will satisfy them so much they might forget to eat their next meal.

    Anyway, I'm fascinated by it :lol:

    And that posters large plate of fruit habit is making me crave the nectarines and cherries I bought yesterday that are sitting in the fridge!

    Possible addition to that: salt. Especially at times when elecrolytes are needed (pork rinds, for instance: protein/fat/salt). and nuts, as often packaged. Cheese, a weakness of mine, is in the fat-salt-protein grouping, as well. And many crackers tend to be salty.
  • ritzvinritzvin Member, Premium Posts: 2,696 Member Member, Premium Posts: 2,696 Member
    Even ice cream.. for me it is totally not the same without the cone. (I'll skip an ice cream shop if no cones when I'm craving an ice cream cone).
  • AnnPT77AnnPT77 Member, Premium Posts: 16,000 Member Member, Premium Posts: 16,000 Member
    ritzvin wrote: »
    kimny72 wrote: »
    J72FIT wrote: »
    My personal issue with sugar is that is seems to create cravings for more sugar in me. I definitely feel better when I am limiting its use - but I am also trying to operate of a calorie deficit, so that I don't have that same calorie requirement so some others do. Limiting my sugar makes it easier for me to keep my calories down and cravings under control.

    I do, however, love my fruit. I tend to have a rather large plate of it (cherries, strawberries, blueberries, some grapes) after dinner....I am not sure if this is actually a bad idea or not. Is it particularly detrimental at night? Or is the natural sugar okay? I think I am overdoing it on the fruit, probably. How much is too much?

    Out of curiosity, which foods in particular create the sugar cravings?

    I'm gonna answer for her so she doesn't get jumped on.


    I'm guessing added sugars lead to compulsive eating - like with so many people. Yes, sometimes there is fat involved, but not always. I'll just get that out of the way.

    If I had a science crystal ball, one of the things I would love to study would be the science of cravings. While I believe the magical combo of carbs/fat/low-fiber is as close to a holy grail of cravings-causer as there is (because it was literally designed to do that), on a personal level cravings seem to me to be a bizarre combination of biology, psychology, and habit. Some people say sweetened drinks make them hungry, others say they actually satisfy a snack craving and keep them from eating too much. I eat one peanut and something triggers in my brain to eat anything not nailed down in my apartment, others say a handful of nuts will satisfy them so much they might forget to eat their next meal.

    Anyway, I'm fascinated by it :lol:

    And that posters large plate of fruit habit is making me crave the nectarines and cherries I bought yesterday that are sitting in the fridge!

    Possible addition to that: salt. Especially at times when elecrolytes are needed (pork rinds, for instance: protein/fat/salt). and nuts, as often packaged. Cheese, a weakness of mine, is in the fat-salt-protein grouping, as well. And many crackers tend to be salty.

    Yes, salt is a biggie for me, cravings-wise. (Occasionally in the past, it's set up a sensory-specific craving cycle alternating salty/sweet/salty/sweet, but that's not really a problem anymore - not sure why.)

    Salt in large quantities is not fabulous health-wise, but there's not so much extreme demonization of it here (that I've seen) for some reason. Not as common a craving? Not as profitable a target for demonization by internet marketers, because one can't claim it packs on the fat? Dunno.

    Happily for me, there are a bunch of low-calorie treats that are salty, like pickles, sauerkraut, cucumber slices with herb salt, etc. On occasion, I've even just eaten a shake or two of salt, straight from the salt shaker . . . I haven't seen many people say the analogous thing about a sugar bowl, though I'm sure it's true for some.
  • heybalesheybales Member Posts: 17,784 Member Member Posts: 17,784 Member
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    Happily for me, there are a bunch of low-calorie treats that are salty, like pickles, sauerkraut, cucumber slices with herb salt, etc.


    LOL - those words did not go together for me. (so sad on my part)

    Got me wondering though - no one said spicy yet!
  • magnusthenerdmagnusthenerd Member Posts: 1,192 Member Member Posts: 1,192 Member
    kimny72 wrote: »
    J72FIT wrote: »
    My personal issue with sugar is that is seems to create cravings for more sugar in me. I definitely feel better when I am limiting its use - but I am also trying to operate of a calorie deficit, so that I don't have that same calorie requirement so some others do. Limiting my sugar makes it easier for me to keep my calories down and cravings under control.

    I do, however, love my fruit. I tend to have a rather large plate of it (cherries, strawberries, blueberries, some grapes) after dinner....I am not sure if this is actually a bad idea or not. Is it particularly detrimental at night? Or is the natural sugar okay? I think I am overdoing it on the fruit, probably. How much is too much?

    Out of curiosity, which foods in particular create the sugar cravings?

    I'm gonna answer for her so she doesn't get jumped on.


    I'm guessing added sugars lead to compulsive eating - like with so many people. Yes, sometimes there is fat involved, but not always. I'll just get that out of the way.

    If I had a science crystal ball, one of the things I would love to study would be the science of cravings. While I believe the magical combo of carbs/fat/low-fiber is as close to a holy grail of cravings-causer as there is (because it was literally designed to do that), on a personal level cravings seem to me to be a bizarre combination of biology, psychology, and habit. Some people say sweetened drinks make them hungry, others say they actually satisfy a snack craving and keep them from eating too much. I eat one peanut and something triggers in my brain to eat anything not nailed down in my apartment, others say a handful of nuts will satisfy them so much they might forget to eat their next meal.

    Anyway, I'm fascinated by it :lol:

    And that posters large plate of fruit habit is making me crave the nectarines and cherries I bought yesterday that are sitting in the fridge!

    https://www.amazon.com/Hungry-Brain-Outsmarting-Instincts-Overeat/dp/125008119X
    https://www.amazon.com/Salt-Sugar-Fat-Michael-Moss-audiobook/dp/B00B4G0MMK
    Those two are pretty good about it.
  • psychod787psychod787 Member, Premium Posts: 3,524 Member Member, Premium Posts: 3,524 Member
    kimny72 wrote: »
    J72FIT wrote: »
    My personal issue with sugar is that is seems to create cravings for more sugar in me. I definitely feel better when I am limiting its use - but I am also trying to operate of a calorie deficit, so that I don't have that same calorie requirement so some others do. Limiting my sugar makes it easier for me to keep my calories down and cravings under control.

    I do, however, love my fruit. I tend to have a rather large plate of it (cherries, strawberries, blueberries, some grapes) after dinner....I am not sure if this is actually a bad idea or not. Is it particularly detrimental at night? Or is the natural sugar okay? I think I am overdoing it on the fruit, probably. How much is too much?

    Out of curiosity, which foods in particular create the sugar cravings?

    I'm gonna answer for her so she doesn't get jumped on.


    I'm guessing added sugars lead to compulsive eating - like with so many people. Yes, sometimes there is fat involved, but not always. I'll just get that out of the way.

    If I had a science crystal ball, one of the things I would love to study would be the science of cravings. While I believe the magical combo of carbs/fat/low-fiber is as close to a holy grail of cravings-causer as there is (because it was literally designed to do that), on a personal level cravings seem to me to be a bizarre combination of biology, psychology, and habit. Some people say sweetened drinks make them hungry, others say they actually satisfy a snack craving and keep them from eating too much. I eat one peanut and something triggers in my brain to eat anything not nailed down in my apartment, others say a handful of nuts will satisfy them so much they might forget to eat their next meal.

    Anyway, I'm fascinated by it :lol:

    And that posters large plate of fruit habit is making me crave the nectarines and cherries I bought yesterday that are sitting in the fridge!

    You said, "a handful of nuts." Sorry, I'm chuckling like a 12 year old... I guess some of us guys never grow up.

    Onto the serious topic. I think what "cravings" we have are very cultural. Such as: A person from France may think Chinese Pepper Chicken is disgusting, just as a person from China may think French Stinky cheese is horrid. I have little doubt that our preferences are made in childhood to a point. I also think that the longer SOME of us stay away of these "binge" foods, the less of a hold it has on us.
    edited August 2
  • psychod787psychod787 Member, Premium Posts: 3,524 Member Member, Premium Posts: 3,524 Member
    kimny72 wrote: »
    J72FIT wrote: »
    My personal issue with sugar is that is seems to create cravings for more sugar in me. I definitely feel better when I am limiting its use - but I am also trying to operate of a calorie deficit, so that I don't have that same calorie requirement so some others do. Limiting my sugar makes it easier for me to keep my calories down and cravings under control.

    I do, however, love my fruit. I tend to have a rather large plate of it (cherries, strawberries, blueberries, some grapes) after dinner....I am not sure if this is actually a bad idea or not. Is it particularly detrimental at night? Or is the natural sugar okay? I think I am overdoing it on the fruit, probably. How much is too much?

    Out of curiosity, which foods in particular create the sugar cravings?

    I'm gonna answer for her so she doesn't get jumped on.


    I'm guessing added sugars lead to compulsive eating - like with so many people. Yes, sometimes there is fat involved, but not always. I'll just get that out of the way.

    If I had a science crystal ball, one of the things I would love to study would be the science of cravings. While I believe the magical combo of carbs/fat/low-fiber is as close to a holy grail of cravings-causer as there is (because it was literally designed to do that), on a personal level cravings seem to me to be a bizarre combination of biology, psychology, and habit. Some people say sweetened drinks make them hungry, others say they actually satisfy a snack craving and keep them from eating too much. I eat one peanut and something triggers in my brain to eat anything not nailed down in my apartment, others say a handful of nuts will satisfy them so much they might forget to eat their next meal.

    Anyway, I'm fascinated by it :lol:

    And that posters large plate of fruit habit is making me crave the nectarines and cherries I bought yesterday that are sitting in the fridge!

    https://www.amazon.com/Hungry-Brain-Outsmarting-Instincts-Overeat/dp/125008119X
    https://www.amazon.com/Salt-Sugar-Fat-Michael-Moss-audiobook/dp/B00B4G0MMK
    Those two are pretty good about it.

    Actually read them both sir. Ok, Audible. Dr. Guyenet is brilliant. I would also suggest https://www.amazon.com/End-Overeating-Insatiable-American-Appetite-ebook/dp/B0025VKJNA
    Dr. Guyenet actually uses some of this book as a basis for his. I am actually a member of the HumanOS.me platform. They have a program called the Ideal Weight Program. It was designed by Stephan Guyenet.
    edited August 2
  • rheddmobilerheddmobile Member Posts: 5,473 Member Member Posts: 5,473 Member
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    sijomial wrote: »
    sijomial wrote: »
    Sugar (& other highly processed carbs) has no nutritional benefits, so why are so many people defending it?

    Fruit & veg are good for you because they have high levels of nutrition, and the fibre content helps to mitigate the bad effects of the sugar content.

    So although a lot of people lose weight while keeping their sugar levels high, is this something to be applauded or a reason to defend sugar?


    I have my sugar high because of the 3 servings of fruit I have daily. If I was eating other types of sugar, 6 teaspoons is more than enough.
    I agree with you though: Sugar is not good if you're trying to get tight and tone especially. Once I'm at a good body fat % I plan to drop my sugar to almost nothing.
    High sodium is a huge no for me too; I'll save that for another time

    I've just finished prepping my drinks ahead of a long cycle ride - spooned in 100g of glucose/fructose mix.

    In context that on my ride I will burn in the order of 2000+ calories burning roughly half fat and half glycogen (a form of glucose) please expand on why 400cals of sugar is "not good" for me?

    Bearing in mind "tight & toned" athletes have high energy needs what exactly is the problem with sugar in particular?

    I am really into those articles where athletes share what they eat in an "average" day and I've noticed that a big chunk of them include added sugar, of some kind, in their daily intake. Whether it's coffee with sugar or a post workout baked good or some chocolate after dinner or some Skittles, it's almost always there. And these are people who are carefully monitoring their performance, physical condition, and diet.

    I think there is this perception (not with you, but with many others) that professional/elite athletes are very sparse or punitive with their diets and that just doesn't seem to be the case with most of them. Yes, they're eating lots of nutrient-rich food, but they're also including some foods with lowest nutrient density because it's 1) fueling their training and/or 2) they just enjoy them.

    Agree.
    With a high calorie allowance it actualy becomes extremely easy to hit/exceed all your nutritional needs with calories left over for treats or just simply for fuel in a convenient and/or tasty way.
    I wish some of the "sugar is the devil" crowd could join me on some of my organised and catered long distance rides to open their eyes a bit. All those slim, fit, healthy people (some even in their 80's and in remarkable shape) eating so many carbs including sugar based or sugar containing products......

    Side note - my rough estimate was surprisingly close for today's calorie burn. 2030 net calories and the sugars in my drinks kept my energy levels up and made just a small dent in today's TDEE of about 4,500 cals.
    If I had to subsist on a paltry calorie allowance then clearly I would make different choices.

    To the person disagreeing with a string of posts (including simple questions!) - context matters which is why universal and abitrary limits really don't make sense.

    Realistically, what is someone supposed to do, in circumstances like yours, according to those who feel added sugar should always be avoided?

    Activity needs to be fueled, or weight loss will occur, and not everyone is overweight. (Even overweight people aren't best served by always *maximimizng* deficit.) The fueling point is acute, for long-endurance exercise, since fuel will be needed en route, given limitations on muscle glycogen, and such.

    Most people find protein rather filling. Eating a couple of thousand calories of extra protein . . . well, it could be done, but I don't think it would be comfortable in an exercise context. Wouldn't that be like 5 pounds of cooked chicken breast? Whole fruit or vegetables, ditto, except more volume to get that number of calories, since the fiber doesn't contribute to fueling. Fats are calorie dense, but the combination of high fat intake with hearty exercise is a really bad one for many people (most would need a lot of porta-potties on the route). A couple thousand calories of fat would be nearly *half a pound* of fat (coconut oil, or whatever), if I did the math right. I grant that one could go with partly fat, partly whole-food carbs, partly protein . . . but it's still a lot of food volume, potentially with bad consequences for digestive ease.

    Non-filling, non-digestion-challenging carbs seem like an obvious solution for long-endurance activities. And sugar is kind of the ultimate non-filling, non-digestion-challenging carb.

    So, to the folks who argue we should avoid added sugar religiously: What should an endurance athlete eat, during an endurance activity, to get a couple of thousand extra calories, in a practical way? Do you (sugar avoider) do long endurance activity (multi-hour, fairly intense)? What do you do en route for calorie intake?

    These are 100% sincere questions.

    Unless you are keto adapted I would think you would bonk hard eventually, since digestion of fat and protein isn’t fast enough to fuel a run. Keto endurance athletes don’t need to consume fats during a run, their bodies break down their existing fat, which people have plenty of unless they are literally starving.

    Interesting side note, a study on ultra runners found that their brain mass temporarily dropped after a multi-day ultra. The brain is mostly fat and water.
  • ninerbuffninerbuff Member, Greeter Posts: 42,970 Member Member, Greeter Posts: 42,970 Member
    What's ironic to me is when ketoers talk so much about the evil of sugar and inflammation when KETONES are acidic.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png
  • heybalesheybales Member Posts: 17,784 Member Member Posts: 17,784 Member
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    sijomial wrote: »
    sijomial wrote: »
    Sugar (& other highly processed carbs) has no nutritional benefits, so why are so many people defending it?

    Fruit & veg are good for you because they have high levels of nutrition, and the fibre content helps to mitigate the bad effects of the sugar content.

    So although a lot of people lose weight while keeping their sugar levels high, is this something to be applauded or a reason to defend sugar?


    I have my sugar high because of the 3 servings of fruit I have daily. If I was eating other types of sugar, 6 teaspoons is more than enough.
    I agree with you though: Sugar is not good if you're trying to get tight and tone especially. Once I'm at a good body fat % I plan to drop my sugar to almost nothing.
    High sodium is a huge no for me too; I'll save that for another time

    I've just finished prepping my drinks ahead of a long cycle ride - spooned in 100g of glucose/fructose mix.

    In context that on my ride I will burn in the order of 2000+ calories burning roughly half fat and half glycogen (a form of glucose) please expand on why 400cals of sugar is "not good" for me?

    Bearing in mind "tight & toned" athletes have high energy needs what exactly is the problem with sugar in particular?

    I am really into those articles where athletes share what they eat in an "average" day and I've noticed that a big chunk of them include added sugar, of some kind, in their daily intake. Whether it's coffee with sugar or a post workout baked good or some chocolate after dinner or some Skittles, it's almost always there. And these are people who are carefully monitoring their performance, physical condition, and diet.

    I think there is this perception (not with you, but with many others) that professional/elite athletes are very sparse or punitive with their diets and that just doesn't seem to be the case with most of them. Yes, they're eating lots of nutrient-rich food, but they're also including some foods with lowest nutrient density because it's 1) fueling their training and/or 2) they just enjoy them.

    Agree.
    With a high calorie allowance it actualy becomes extremely easy to hit/exceed all your nutritional needs with calories left over for treats or just simply for fuel in a convenient and/or tasty way.
    I wish some of the "sugar is the devil" crowd could join me on some of my organised and catered long distance rides to open their eyes a bit. All those slim, fit, healthy people (some even in their 80's and in remarkable shape) eating so many carbs including sugar based or sugar containing products......

    Side note - my rough estimate was surprisingly close for today's calorie burn. 2030 net calories and the sugars in my drinks kept my energy levels up and made just a small dent in today's TDEE of about 4,500 cals.
    If I had to subsist on a paltry calorie allowance then clearly I would make different choices.

    To the person disagreeing with a string of posts (including simple questions!) - context matters which is why universal and abitrary limits really don't make sense.

    Realistically, what is someone supposed to do, in circumstances like yours, according to those who feel added sugar should always be avoided?

    Activity needs to be fueled, or weight loss will occur, and not everyone is overweight. (Even overweight people aren't best served by always *maximimizng* deficit.) The fueling point is acute, for long-endurance exercise, since fuel will be needed en route, given limitations on muscle glycogen, and such.

    Most people find protein rather filling. Eating a couple of thousand calories of extra protein . . . well, it could be done, but I don't think it would be comfortable in an exercise context. Wouldn't that be like 5 pounds of cooked chicken breast? Whole fruit or vegetables, ditto, except more volume to get that number of calories, since the fiber doesn't contribute to fueling. Fats are calorie dense, but the combination of high fat intake with hearty exercise is a really bad one for many people (most would need a lot of porta-potties on the route). A couple thousand calories of fat would be nearly *half a pound* of fat (coconut oil, or whatever), if I did the math right. I grant that one could go with partly fat, partly whole-food carbs, partly protein . . . but it's still a lot of food volume, potentially with bad consequences for digestive ease.

    Non-filling, non-digestion-challenging carbs seem like an obvious solution for long-endurance activities. And sugar is kind of the ultimate non-filling, non-digestion-challenging carb.

    So, to the folks who argue we should avoid added sugar religiously: What should an endurance athlete eat, during an endurance activity, to get a couple of thousand extra calories, in a practical way? Do you (sugar avoider) do long endurance activity (multi-hour, fairly intense)? What do you do en route for calorie intake?

    These are 100% sincere questions.

    Keto endurance athletes don’t need to consume fats during a run, their bodies break down their existing fat, which people have plenty of unless they are literally starving.

    Non-keto endurance athletes are breaking down existing fat too - and if endurance probably a greater than 50% supply of it.

    But are you thinking there is no muscle-stored glycogen being used at all, just fat and ketones, for keto endurance athlete?

    You do have me wondering though, I've not read up on how ketone fuel source would show up on normal vo2max test for instance. I'm guessing it would be as fat since that is the metabolized source.
    But lactic acid usage doesn't show up either except through blood analysis.
  • AnnPT77AnnPT77 Member, Premium Posts: 16,000 Member Member, Premium Posts: 16,000 Member
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    sijomial wrote: »
    sijomial wrote: »
    Sugar (& other highly processed carbs) has no nutritional benefits, so why are so many people defending it?

    Fruit & veg are good for you because they have high levels of nutrition, and the fibre content helps to mitigate the bad effects of the sugar content.

    So although a lot of people lose weight while keeping their sugar levels high, is this something to be applauded or a reason to defend sugar?


    I have my sugar high because of the 3 servings of fruit I have daily. If I was eating other types of sugar, 6 teaspoons is more than enough.
    I agree with you though: Sugar is not good if you're trying to get tight and tone especially. Once I'm at a good body fat % I plan to drop my sugar to almost nothing.
    High sodium is a huge no for me too; I'll save that for another time

    I've just finished prepping my drinks ahead of a long cycle ride - spooned in 100g of glucose/fructose mix.

    In context that on my ride I will burn in the order of 2000+ calories burning roughly half fat and half glycogen (a form of glucose) please expand on why 400cals of sugar is "not good" for me?

    Bearing in mind "tight & toned" athletes have high energy needs what exactly is the problem with sugar in particular?

    I am really into those articles where athletes share what they eat in an "average" day and I've noticed that a big chunk of them include added sugar, of some kind, in their daily intake. Whether it's coffee with sugar or a post workout baked good or some chocolate after dinner or some Skittles, it's almost always there. And these are people who are carefully monitoring their performance, physical condition, and diet.

    I think there is this perception (not with you, but with many others) that professional/elite athletes are very sparse or punitive with their diets and that just doesn't seem to be the case with most of them. Yes, they're eating lots of nutrient-rich food, but they're also including some foods with lowest nutrient density because it's 1) fueling their training and/or 2) they just enjoy them.

    Agree.
    With a high calorie allowance it actualy becomes extremely easy to hit/exceed all your nutritional needs with calories left over for treats or just simply for fuel in a convenient and/or tasty way.
    I wish some of the "sugar is the devil" crowd could join me on some of my organised and catered long distance rides to open their eyes a bit. All those slim, fit, healthy people (some even in their 80's and in remarkable shape) eating so many carbs including sugar based or sugar containing products......

    Side note - my rough estimate was surprisingly close for today's calorie burn. 2030 net calories and the sugars in my drinks kept my energy levels up and made just a small dent in today's TDEE of about 4,500 cals.
    If I had to subsist on a paltry calorie allowance then clearly I would make different choices.

    To the person disagreeing with a string of posts (including simple questions!) - context matters which is why universal and abitrary limits really don't make sense.

    Realistically, what is someone supposed to do, in circumstances like yours, according to those who feel added sugar should always be avoided?

    Activity needs to be fueled, or weight loss will occur, and not everyone is overweight. (Even overweight people aren't best served by always *maximimizng* deficit.) The fueling point is acute, for long-endurance exercise, since fuel will be needed en route, given limitations on muscle glycogen, and such.

    Most people find protein rather filling. Eating a couple of thousand calories of extra protein . . . well, it could be done, but I don't think it would be comfortable in an exercise context. Wouldn't that be like 5 pounds of cooked chicken breast? Whole fruit or vegetables, ditto, except more volume to get that number of calories, since the fiber doesn't contribute to fueling. Fats are calorie dense, but the combination of high fat intake with hearty exercise is a really bad one for many people (most would need a lot of porta-potties on the route). A couple thousand calories of fat would be nearly *half a pound* of fat (coconut oil, or whatever), if I did the math right. I grant that one could go with partly fat, partly whole-food carbs, partly protein . . . but it's still a lot of food volume, potentially with bad consequences for digestive ease.

    Non-filling, non-digestion-challenging carbs seem like an obvious solution for long-endurance activities. And sugar is kind of the ultimate non-filling, non-digestion-challenging carb.

    So, to the folks who argue we should avoid added sugar religiously: What should an endurance athlete eat, during an endurance activity, to get a couple of thousand extra calories, in a practical way? Do you (sugar avoider) do long endurance activity (multi-hour, fairly intense)? What do you do en route for calorie intake?

    These are 100% sincere questions.

    Unless you are keto adapted I would think you would bonk hard eventually, since digestion of fat and protein isn’t fast enough to fuel a run. Keto endurance athletes don’t need to consume fats during a run, their bodies break down their existing fat, which people have plenty of unless they are literally starving.

    Interesting side note, a study on ultra runners found that their brain mass temporarily dropped after a multi-day ultra. The brain is mostly fat and water.

    Sure. That's pretty much why I'm asking.

    If someone is a long-endurance athlete, and doesn't want to bonk, vomit, or get diarrhea during long events . . . what do people who are very anti-sugar (but not keto) use as a fueling strategy? Or, if they're not themselves long-endurance athletes, what fueling strategy do they suggest for people who are, so as to avoid consuming added sugar?

    I suspect that there are relatively few non-keto, very anti-sugar long-endurance athletes, but that's speculation on my part, not knowledge. And even if those who consider added sugar absolutely to be avoided aren't themselves long-endurance athletes, I'd still like to hear what they'd suggest, even though hearing from people who do do long endurance activities while avoiding added sugar would be even better.

    (For truth in advertising: I'm not a long-endurance athlete, never have been. I've been a short-endurance athlete - yeah, that's a thing - but am a little more lackadaisical now. My only longer-endurance activities (such as endurance trainng sessions) haven't really been a bonking risk for a variety of reasons. I'm still interested in how people think about this, and how their results have played out, if they have applied experience.)
  • claireychn074claireychn074 Member, Premium Posts: 315 Member Member, Premium Posts: 315 Member
    My trigger food is... (sorry)... raw carrots. Can take or leave every other food including chocolate (which I love), cakes, biscuits, ice cream, crisps etc. But put a bowl of raw carrots in front of me and I cannot stop 🤷‍♂️
  • cmriversidecmriverside Member Posts: 30,215 Member Member Posts: 30,215 Member
    My trigger food is... (sorry)... raw carrots. Can take or leave every other food including chocolate (which I love), cakes, biscuits, ice cream, crisps etc. But put a bowl of raw carrots in front of me and I cannot stop 🤷‍♂️

    Well, yeah. They're loaded with sugar.
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