Baked goods

lynn_glenmont

paperpudding wrote: »

I'm not sure what I would call your version of pudding although I know the sort of thing you mean, that is used as a filling in some pastries.
maybe Cream filling?

Was thinking about this overnight (yes yes get a life... ) and I would say what you are calling baked goods I would call pastries - and then just to test if this is just me or a more widely known thing I googled it - and The word "pastries" suggests many kinds of baked products made from ingredients such as flour, sugar, milk, butter, shortening, baking powder, and eggs. Small tarts and other sweet baked products are called pastries. Common pastry dishes include pies, tarts, quiches, croissants, and pasties.

followed by umpteen ads for bakeries selling pastries and recipes for various pastries - all of which were types of the italiced - or what you and OP are referring to as baked goods.

Yes the word casserole is used here too - meaning something cooked in the oven or in a slow cooker in an everything mixed together way and you can buy casserole dishes - meaning the crockery dish to cook a casserole in the oven with.
I guess some words are interchangable - although potato bake, in my experience isnt ever referred to as anything else. (and aussies, in my experience, love potato bake - is a very popular side dish for BBQ's, at buffets etc)

Whereas tuna bake, as mentioned by aussie poster upthread - I think that could equally be referred to as tuna bake or tuna casserole. likewise other things like chicken bake/chicken casserole
but beef - beef bake sounds wrong and would only be beef casserole although chicken bake/ chicken casserole could be referred to as either.
No idea why


ETA just to pretend I am still trying to inform OP - yes you can eat any combination of the above and lose weight - as long as within your calorie allowance.

I just want to preface this by saying I'm disagreeing or trying to say other people should use these words the way I use them. I think the regional/national variations in the English language are interesting, and I like to be able to understand my fellow English speakers from around the world.

In my experience in the U.S., baked goods is a broader category than pastries. I think "baked goods" could be substituted for the phrase "baked products" in the sentence I bolded from your googled definition above. Pastries are many kinds of baked goods -- but not all baked goods are pastries. The list of examples of pastries in your googled definitions lean toward higher-fat baked goods, where you cut or fold in a fair amount of butter, shortening, or lard.

Baked goods in the U.S. also refers to yeasted breads, quick breads (raised with baking powder and/or baking soda), dinner rolls, biscuits (in both the U.S. and British sense -- not sure what biscuit means in Australia), muffins, cakes, and cookies. Would you consider any or all of those to be pastries?


And I've eaten all of those baked goods while losing weight. Just not all on the same day.

Hanibanani2020

lynn_glenmont wrote: »

Hanibanani2020 wrote: »

Pudding in America is basically yogo here.

The texture may be the same, but pudding in the U.S. (can't speak for all the Americas) does not have yogurt in it.

You wouldn’t know yogo does either. Sugar chocolate basically

Hanibanani2020

the Pudding plot thickens 😂

Lillymoo01

The directions some threads go around here are amazing. I must admit that I have really enjoyed reading about how the same word has different interpretations in other countries. It has been a fascinating journey into the world of cooking. @Hanibanani2020 good to see another Aussie in the mix. Whereabouts are you from. I am country grown but have spent my adult life in Adelaide.

Hanibanani2020

Lillymoo01 wrote: »

The directions some threads go around here are amazing. I must admit that I have really enjoyed reading about how the same word has different interpretations in other countries. It has been a fascinating journey into the world of cooking. @Hanibanani2020 good to see another Aussie in the mix. Whereabouts are you from. I am country grown but have spent my adult life in Adelaide.

I’m from near The Sunny Coast QLD but atm I’m caring for family a bit further south in NSW. Hello!

paperpudding

. mm. I would consider scalloped potatoes a casserole. I also wouldn't limit casseroles to main dishes. What about the famous holiday green bean casserole?

It's fame hasn't yet reached my little town in South Australia - have never heard of it.

Fortunately google has so I looked it up there.

When I hear the word casserole I do envision a main meal dish - like afore mentioned tuna bake which could interchangeably be called tuna casserole.

A veggie mixture intended as a side dish, eg potato bake, I would not call a casserole.

If I heard the term vegetable casserole I would imagine a vegetarian dish intended as a main meal.

AnnPT77

lynn_glenmont wrote: »

AnnPT77 wrote: »

paperpudding wrote: »

AnnPT77 wrote: »

paperpudding wrote: »

By "baked goods" do we mean baked pastry things like donuts???

Baked goods to me would be anything baked - including things like, say cauliflower bake or frittata- but then question makes even less sense so I think there is some 'cross country lost in translation' going on??

(snip)

Probably. I think you're not USAian? "Baked goods" is standard murcan category name for cookies/cakes/breads kind of stuff, as per dictionary definition from Lillymoo.

You think pudding is something different from what I think it is, mostly, too, I'd bet.

Correct - I am in Australia. I wondered if it was a cross country different meaning thing.

Do you not have potato bake? Would you not call that baked goods even though it's very name includes ' bake'?
But it has no flour.

Interesting.

Re pudding - I would only call that the sort of thing in my avatar photo - a warm cakey thing, often served with chocolate sauce or custard
But I do know some english people call any dessert eaten after a meal 'pudding'
Ie we are having fruit salad for pudding.

I don't know whether we have what you call potato bake, but we don't call anything potato bake, at least in my part of the country. What is potato bake? Is it like sliced potatos with milk/bechamel, baked? If so, that's scalloped pottaoes.

Most things that are an assortment of savory ingredients mixed together and put in the over to bake, to make a main dish, would be called a casserole here, but I think over west of here a bit on the other side of Lake Michigan, they might call it hot dish.

Scalloped potatoes isn't really a casserole, though I can't say exactly why, because it'd still be scalloped potatoes even with something like ham in it. If someone said "casserole" the classic thought would be tuna noodle casserole, probably, with tuna, flat egg noodles, veggies, maybe a can of soup concentrate (or bechamel or the like), maybe crumb/crouton or crumbled potato chip crust.

I assumed you'd call the thing in your photo a pudding, too, which is why I mentioned it. The main thing called pudding here is a goopy sweet-ish thing made usually with milk and cornstarch and a flavoring (chocolate, vanilla, butterscotch, fruity, . . . ) , sort of a custardy thing but not always with eggs in it, and normally cooked stovetop rather than baked. (Well, actually, usually an instant made from powder these days, or bought made up.) We do call certain things that are cake-like batter but steamed "pudding", but not all of them (for example, Boston Brown Bread is steamed, and vaguely like that, but not called a pudding. We don't do a lot of the steamed batter puddings here, at least in my subculture(s).) But there'd also be rice pudding and tapioca pudding, which is goopy stuff with the named ingredients in it.

Where I am, "baked goods" are what the dictionary definition earlier said, just cakes, cookies, muffins, cakes, and that sort of thing. They're mostly sweet things. I think people wouldn't freak out if someone included non-sweet bread or rolls as "baked goods", but if someone uses the term, I think mostly of the sweet things.

Hmm. I would consider scalloped potatoes a casserole. I also wouldn't limit casseroles to main dishes. What about the famous holiday green bean casserole?

I think there's a lot of not terribly logical distinctions on what is considered a casserole. I wouldn't call baked lasagna a casserole, but a similarly structured layered dish made with tortillas instead of lasagne noodles, Mexican spices instead of Italian, Rotel tomatoes instead of tomato sauce, and cheddar-jack blend instead of mozzarella and ricotta? Yeah, I'd call that a casserole.

I don't call baked macaroni and cheese a casserole, but I think it is a casserole. If I were asked to bring a casserole to a pot luck, I would think I was fulfilling my assignment if I brought homemade baked macaroni and cheese.

Many years ago, I tried to explain to a roommate who was from China what a casserole was. I told her it was a large category of savory dishes that were baked in the oven in a casserole dish (yes, I know, circular definition), and that usually include some kind of sauce element, such as a white sauce or a cheese sauce or canned soup.

It occurs to me that a lot of recipes I have where "casserole" is actually part of the name of the dish are recipes developed by food manufacturers to get you to buy more of their products and printed in magazine ads or on packaging -- "hey, here's this great easy dish that you will need our pasta/cheese/canned soup/canned fried onions, etc. to make."

You're right, green bean casserole is a casserole, in my brain, or at least semi. I don't know why. (I also think the normal type is a seriously sub-par food, but that's another discussion.)

But scalloped potatoes aren't a casserole to me (as least the basic kind - once there's ham or bacon and maybe other veggies, it starts to head that way). If someone said "I'll bring a casserole to the potluck", and brought scalloped potatoes, I wouldn't fuss at them, but my brain would be thinking "Okkkkkkkkaaaayyyyy . . . .what?". I'd expect a main.

For me, yeast bread and rolls (the basic types) are pushing the experiential defintion of "baked goods", too. Out at the far border. (Once again, applying the "potluck perception test".)

Language is really, really interesting. I find it amazing that humans actually accomplish Great Things, sometimes, with such an approximate and fallible tool. (Kind of like calorie counting, in that regard, I guess: So many potential flaws and pitfalls . . . but it mostly works. ).

hipari

OK, I have to ask... how would you guys define ”casserole”? As a non-native English speaker, my idea of casserole is any kind of oven-baked dish that includes both the main dish/protein and the side dish mixed together. So, by this definition, the only things you’d sensibly add to a plate of casserole would be possibly a salad and condiments like ketchup.

Am I completely mistaken with this, and is ”casserole” the same thing around the English-speaking world?

In general, my idea of ”baked goods” is pretty much the foods a coffee shop sells: pies, cakes, scones, cupcakes, bread, rolls, cookies etc., so not limited to sweet or savory, but made out of some kind of dough or crust.

paperpudding

Well clearly us guys don't have a standard definition or understanding of the word casserole.

My definition would be any main meal dish baked in the oven - or in a slow cooker - where all the ingredients are in bite size pieces mixed in together and cooked in some sort of sauce or liquid.
So, not a roast because all ingredients are not mixed up together, not a potato bake ( scalloped potatos ) because that is not a main meal, not a meatloaf because, although baked and all ingredients mixed together and a main meal, it isn't in a sauce or liquid.

Your idea of baked good are what I would call pastries - although pastries brings to mind 'fancier' Things like donuts, pies,buns*!, foccacias etc - not so much a loaf of bread.

* Buns reminds me that Australians and people from other places have a different understanding of 'buns'
my understanding is sweet pastries which you can slice and butter. Other,peoples understanding is a single serve bread roll.
Years ago I had 2 finger buns and asked my husband, who was born in UK, whether he wanted one and do you want it buttered. He says what else can I have in it , I'm there jam? Honey?
When he said what about ham cheese tomato I realised we were on different wave lengths

Finger bun.

https://images.app.goo.gl/UPE8CuCTv3i2EvZj6

Lildarlinz

I have crisps the 72 calorie ones like squares or skips I love crisps so I can’t not have a packet! :P
I had a fry up the other day but used the bacon medallions that are low calorie and low fat
As for a burger I had a slimming world one on pitta bread with some homemade chips and salad.Now I would usually eat two birds eye 365 calorie chicken quarter pounders (before) but this one slimming world burger filled me up
You can eat what you want on a diet just you have to look at calories and portion sizes

AnnPT77

paperpudding wrote: »

Well clearly us guys don't have a standard definition or understanding of the word casserole.

It isn't just "casserole". IMO lots of words have slightly different connotations or nuances either regionally or individually. Communication requires shared meaning, but it doesn't need to be perfect. I think food-related words are more variable by sub-culture than some other kinds of terms, though.

My definition would be any main meal dish baked in the oven - or in a slow cooker - where all the ingredients are in bite size pieces mixed in together and cooked in some sort of sauce or liquid.
So, not a roast because all ingredients are not mixed up together, not a potato bake ( scalloped potatos ) because that is not a main meal, not a meatloaf because, although baked and all ingredients mixed together and a main meal, it isn't in a sauce or liquid.

That definition would work for me, generally. I think the bean side dish called "green bean casserole" is a casserole just because that's the standard name for it, not so much because it fits the most common understanding.

Your idea of baked good are what I would call pastries - although pastries brings to mind 'fancier' Things like donuts, pies,buns*!, foccacias etc - not so much a loaf of bread.

* Buns reminds me that Australians and people from other places have a different understanding of 'buns'
my understanding is sweet pastries which you can slice and butter. Other,peoples understanding is a single serve bread roll.

"Bun" is a single-serve bread to me, including hot dog buns and hamburger buns. If someone called something a "cinnamon bun" I'd probably understand them to mean what I'd call a "cinnamon roll" though (sheet of bread-ish dough rolled out, spread with cinnamon & butter, rolled up, sliced, baked as spiral slices, frosted after baking), but I'd not call it that myself.

Years ago I had 2 finger buns and asked my husband, who was born in UK, whether he wanted one and do you want it buttered. He says what else can I have in it , I'm there jam? Honey?
When he said what about ham cheese tomato I realised we were on different wave lengths

Finger bun.

https://images.app.goo.gl/UPE8CuCTv3i2EvZj6

Depending on size, that looks like what I'd call a "Long John", but a little more bread-like than a Long John, from the photos. Long John is from doughnut-type dough, filled and frosted.

paperpudding

"Bun" is a single-serve bread to me, including hot dog buns and hamburger buns. If someone called something a "cinnamon bun" I'd probably understand them to mean what I'd call a "cinnamon roll" though (sheet of bread-ish dough rolled out, spread with cinnamon & butter, rolled up, sliced, baked as spiral slices, frosted after baking), but I'd not call it that myself.

yes I think that is standard american or british understanding of 'bun'


anecdote I related did happen about 20 years ago.

Since some of our foods here in Australia have become more amerian influenced since then, people here would generally understand bun to mean either a single serve roll or a sweet pastry (baked good) depending on context.

Nobody thinks KFC combo meals of chicken, salad,gravy, bun, means you get a sweet pastry with it.

But if I said Would you like a bun or a donut with your coffee? - nobody would think I meant a bread roll

Hanibanani2020

So I thought I had a thorough understanding of casseroles and baked goods but now I realise I am but a baby in a linguistically nightmare.

Hanibanani2020

Linguistical*

paperpudding

hehehe there is a profound comment for the day - Life is a linguistical nightmare