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Face mask or no face mask?



  • threewins
    threewins Posts: 1,234 Member
    This thread getting locked in three...
  • mockchoc
    mockchoc Posts: 6,573 Member
    ReenieHJ wrote: »
    cgvet37 wrote: »
    heybales wrote: »
    Have you taken the time and energy to go look up local newspapers - as small as you care to get, in these cities and towns that are having increases and deaths?
    Read the personal stories of families effected, sometimes they just give a paragraph per death. I know that you won't be able to find all of them to add up to the numbers we hear in total, but you can get a clue there are deaths and cases at the rates being discussed. The pictures of the mass burials of those without family members retrieving their relatives.
    Or you think that even the smalltown paper is playing along in this masquerade?

    Where are you seeing Dr Fauci in public group close without a mask? Dated picture of course.
    Like many the mask comes off in front of the mic when it's time to talk, but not seen him next to someone close - unless you are unaware of camera angles and focus and distance and how that can fool the brain.

    Like hospitals being paid to count every death as Covid related? Or footage from Italy being used by the Media in a false manner? Or scewed test data? Shall I keep going? Are you that gullible?

    There was a member here from Italy back when the going got truly bad there, she kept warning the U.S. how bad it would/could be. Who was that and where is she? That was a source right from where it was happening, with nothing to gain personally. :(
    As far as exact numbers? I think there is too much room for error to be considered exact, but I feel the numbers are definitely close enough to bother me.

    I believe she said she was going on vacation for a few months so wouldn't be on here while away.
  • MFPUser73629
    MFPUser73629 Posts: 224 Member
    threewins wrote: »
    This thread getting locked in three...

    Naw, doubt it considering I may have been part of the reason it was locked before. We’re following the mods guidance I think.
  • laurenq1991
    laurenq1991 Posts: 384 Member
    edited August 2020
    Last week I was wearing both a multi-layered cloth mask (two layers of thick fabric with some kind of filling/batting in between) AND a plastic face shield. I sneezed. The face shield moved up and down due to the volume of air from me sneezing going right through the mask and under the face shield, even though the face shield was covering my entire face. End of story.

    But I'll wear a mask if it gets people to stop the rest of it. The lockdown was one of the biggest policy disasters in modern history (and I say this as a science literate person with a degree in molecular biology, who also happens to live in an area with one of the highest COVID deaths per million of anywhere on the planet). I think people are starting to realize that now that they see that Sweden did about as badly as most of Europe and the US on deaths per million, without the awful second-order effects of lockdown that also cause many deaths. I think the UK is ahead of the US on realizing it was a mistake, judging by some of the articles I see out of the mainstream British media. The CDC and WHO themselves did not recommend lockdowns as a respiratory pandemic mitigation strategy even in their resource materials from last year.

    I also think the reason why people are harping on masks so much is kind of a distraction from how ineffective lockdowns are. I constantly see people I know posting virtue-signaling stuff online about how people who don't wear masks are awful. Meanwhile, it's the law in my state to wear a mask in public indoor spaces, and I have never once seen anyone violating this law. This person who they are yelling at does not even exist in our area. But it's a good deflection from the fact that we tanked the economy and peoples' mental health and stole the futures of our children and young people for absolutely no benefit compared to countries that didn't lock down. They aren't talking about how Australia is letting the military break into peoples' houses to "check if they're quarantining," or how New Zealand is putting COVID-19 positive people into internment camps.

    And this is controversial, but I also wonder why, with obesity and its associated illnesses being a significant risk factor for COVID-19 deaths (almost every non-elderly, non-immunocompromised person who has died of COVID-19 has been overweight if not obese), there hasn't been more public health focus on mitigating that problem. It's been over five months now. If weight loss had been made into a public health campaign from the beginning, a lot of people could have gotten their risk level down by now and even gotten out of the overweight/obese category. I also see a lot of people freaking out over their personal COVID-19 risk, when they are overweight/obese and have not lost any weight over the last five months. In fact, the few studies that have been done indicate that the average person has GAINED weight over the course of the lockdown. It's really hard to take people seriously when they are moral-panicking and shaming others over a pandemic that they will do nothing to mitigate their personal risk for. Like, do they actually care about their health, or do they just like judging and nitpicking people because it gives them a sense of control? Why am I obligated to make significant sacrifices to help people who won't even take the simplest steps to help themselves?
  • laurenq1991
    laurenq1991 Posts: 384 Member
    edited August 2020
    threewins wrote: »
    I'm from New Zealand. I'll send you $1,000 if you can prove that New Zealand is sending COVID-19 positive people into internment camps.

    Well, obviously they don't come out and call them "internment camps"...they call them "quarantine facilities." But people can't choose whether to go there or not -- all positive cases are now being sent there -- and they're guarded by the military to prevent anyone from leaving. I'll take my $1000 now.



    Internment is defined as "the imprisonment of people, commonly in large groups, without charges or intent to file charges....Thus, while it can simply mean imprisonment, it tends to refer to preventive confinement rather than confinement after having been convicted of some crime." In this case, preventive confinement to prevent people from breaking the quarantine rules. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment
  • laurenq1991
    laurenq1991 Posts: 384 Member
    Yeah.. I'm Australian and I'm pretty sure knocking on the door doesnt constitute breaking in..

    "The state of disaster declaration will empower the police minister, Lisa Neville, to appoint police as authorised officers. This means when doing spot checks on people’s homes, if the residents did not give permission for them to enter, police will be authorised to enter without a warrant."


    "Previously Victorian police could not enter people's homes without permission or a warrant or in company with an authorised officer. Under the official state of disaster, police officers can be appointed ‘authorised officers’ and enter homes without a warrant, to enforce self-isolation orders and other restrictions."

  • laurenq1991
    laurenq1991 Posts: 384 Member
    I'm in NSW and as far as I know, door knocking is all that has occurred.
    I've not seen police breaking in to anyone's home on tv footage anywhere. So whilst they may have the authority , I've not seen it.
    I can really only give insight to my own state though and even then only my local area. I've known of 3 people who were checked on and all that is required is that they answered the door.. no permission by authorities to enter was asked for.

    These restrictions are for Victoria, as it clearly states in the articles, although other parts of Australia have started to implement more restrictions too. Also, just because the news isn't showing it or you haven't heard of it happening, doesn't mean it hasn't happened. There would have to be video footage of it sent to the media in the first place, for one thing.

    Also, the police openly admit to smashing peoples' car windows and pulling them out of their vehicles, simply because they wouldn't answer questions about where they were going: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/australasia/coronavirus-australia-victoria-melbourne-lockdown-military-police-cases-deaths-a9652996.html

    Either way, the police have the authority to break into peoples' homes without a warrant. Even if they're choosing not to do it now, they have the authority to do it at any time. That was passed into law and the Australian people and government allowed it to be passed into law. That's a fact. It annoys me that people are accusing me of lying when they could just go look it up themselves.

    I'm also still waiting for someone to explain how exercising outside alone for more than 60 minutes, or driving more than 5km from one's home, increases the risk of contracting COVID-19. Or how the police interrogating people for the crime of daring to step outside alone is supposed to prevent the spread of COVID-19, since that is an extended face-to-face interaction.
  • BuiltLikeAPeep
    BuiltLikeAPeep Posts: 94 Member
    ythannah wrote: »
    amart4224 wrote: »
    Will you continue to wear your mask every year during flu season (which also kills hundreds of thousands of people each year), or do you only feel obligated to protect them from the "special" diseases?

    edited by a MFP moderator

    It doesn't, actually. You might want to check your numbers.

    I wear gloves outdoors to walk my dogs too :D I'm under no illusion that they protect me from Covid, they're to protect my hands from UV exposure. After the bad press chemical sunscreens got last year, I started using UPF clothing instead. But they also do a dandy job of protecting my hands from leash burn if one of the little darlings decides to go off-piste.

    You might want to Google "flu deaths per year worldwide ". I know we don't trust the WHO a whole lot right now, but they estimate 250,000 to half a million flu deaths per year. CDC estimates 24,000 to 65,000 per year in the US alone.
  • threewins
    threewins Posts: 1,234 Member
    "internment camp" in New Zealand - this is for people arriving in the country but for those who have COVID-19 it's probably the same

  • laurenq1991
    laurenq1991 Posts: 384 Member
    edited August 2020
    Your original post said Australia , yet you were talking about Victorian restrictions obviously that was confusing to me.

    Victoria is part of Australia, is it not?
    Nevermind. If you're spoiling for an argument, you won't get one here.

    "Spoiling for an argument"? I was just stating my opinion. Other people are the ones who started arguing with me by accusing me of "spreading lies about their country." And then "disagreeing" with my posts that were just posting news articles supporting what I was saying...like what exactly are they "disagreeing" with, the existence of these facts?
    Not knowing the exact set up you have, did the face shield move from facial muscles during your sneeze instead of air flow?

    I doubt it because, also, the other day I sneezed while wearing a mask but no face shield, and I felt air come out of the mask. Also, the face shield attaches to the face around the forehead and it usually doesn't move easily from talking, facial expressions, etc.
    If so, might be time for a new mask. As a quilter, there are wide varieties of fabric and even “thick” doesn’t mean tight weave.

    And yet the mask restrictions just say "wear a face covering," regardless of whether it's actually effective. Most people aren't quilters and aren't able to find or make the perfect mask that actually works. Especially as, obviously, you can't try them on or take them out of the package before you buy them. If the multi-layered mask I use doesn't work, probably very few masks on the market do, making this little more than security theater.
  • MFPUser73629
    MFPUser73629 Posts: 224 Member
    edited August 2020
    cgvet37 wrote: »
    Hollis100 wrote: »
    cgvet37 wrote: »
    I don't believe the numbers. We are being lied to. The CDC and the WHO are master manipulators. Even Dr. Fauci himself was seen not wearing his mask, nor social distancing. Yet, people hang on to his every word. You are being programed, if you believe anything the puppet masters say. Unplug yourself.

    There are many reasons why I disagree with this comment. Aside from any facts I could look up and reference, here's the biggest reason why I don't believe in conspiracy theories: human nature.

    We can't even cooperate with our allies and business partners over trade deals and other ordinary things. We disagree with each other over everything, from politics to religion to recycling. Human beings are a mess.

    Yet, a whole bunch of large organizations are supposed to be working together in some shadowy plot to lie to us and program us -- for freaking what reason? People have never been able to organize worldwide over anything for long.

    I wholeheartedly believe people swallow conspiracy theories because:
    (1) it's easier than facing reality, which is not only scary, but shows humans have no control over a lot of things
    (2) you can bond with others who believe in the same conspiracies and feel you're "right" and "know the truth"

    Why has any nation wanted to rule the World? Why have people like Hitler existed? Power and control. If you think this virus is any different, you are blind. This virus was no mistake, it was man made in China. It has been used to spread fear. Is it real, yes. So is the Flu. Lets shut the Country down every Flu season.

    I don't understand how you can declare in one post that we can't know anything for sure about infection rates or fatalities, but then confidently state that the virus was deliberately created in China. Obviously you do think SOME sources of information are reliable, you just prefer ones that are pushing fringe theories and encouraging people to ignore preventative measures.

    I won’t speak for others but for me it’s not a matter of preference, it’s a matter of evaluating reliability and validity. I personally do not trust most news sources regardless of their opinions. Yes, I think most news sources report opinions and not unbiased news.

    Everything is traceable. If you know what OSINT sources are available and are reliable, know what to look for, how to analyze the minutia and weed out what is not relevant, correlate and taxonomize the remaining findings, and some other very cool stuff, attribution begins to appear and the entire story unfolds. I’m not aware of any media sources which have explained this to the general public but this is possible for anyone to do with the right skill set and resources.
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