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Height-ism?
Replies
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T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »I know the topic here is height, but let's not forget that men also select by age, the graph would look similar probably.
I am not convinced. The reality is that, in general, women are much more choosy than men on dating apps. There is a YouTuber who does data analysis about this exact topic. Overall, most women are swiping right on a very small percentage of men. OTOH men swip right at much higher rates. Having said that, there is a lot of variability amongst men... Some swipe right 40% and others nearly 90% of the time. Most all women are swiping right less than 10% of the time.
That's because the men are (generally) looking to get laid.
No one needs a youtuber to tell them that. 😀
And it's a numbers game. I don't think anyone would try to argue that all of these right-swiping guys are carefully selecting women that they're attracted to and with whom they feel they have potential compatibility based on a thorough reading of their profile. They're just casting a wider net with the intention of filtering the matches later.
I suspect a factor in some (many?) cases, when it comes to women's behavior, is just plain literal physical fear for their safety. Meeting strangers, dating strangers, can feel dangerous. Selectivity results. Disinclination to sign up to the apps results.
That doesn't explain height prejudices (kind of the opposite, maybe), but I think it probably has something to do with more men using the apps, and men right-swiping on more women. My sense is that it's not very common for men to feel physically fearful about strange women, but pretty common for women to have physical safety fears when it comes to strange men - disproportionate to statistical reality, maybe, even.
You would think so anyway.
My BFF's neighbour/friend got into online dating after his marriage ended, I think he would have been in his late 40s then, presumably dating women of a comparable age. I was appalled at the number of women who would go to his home for a first meeting/date. In fact, I think most if not all did, since he was an alcoholic and too intoxicated to drive most of the time so he wasn't going anywhere.
I thought rule #1 was "meet in a public place".3 -
T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »I know the topic here is height, but let's not forget that men also select by age, the graph would look similar probably.
I am not convinced. The reality is that, in general, women are much more choosy than men on dating apps. There is a YouTuber who does data analysis about this exact topic. Overall, most women are swiping right on a very small percentage of men. OTOH men swip right at much higher rates. Having said that, there is a lot of variability amongst men... Some swipe right 40% and others nearly 90% of the time. Most all women are swiping right less than 10% of the time.
That's because the men are (generally) looking to get laid.
No one needs a youtuber to tell them that. 😀
And it's a numbers game. I don't think anyone would try to argue that all of these right-swiping guys are carefully selecting women that they're attracted to and with whom they feel they have potential compatibility based on a thorough reading of their profile. They're just casting a wider net with the intention of filtering the matches later.
I suspect a factor in some (many?) cases, when it comes to women's behavior, is just plain literal physical fear for their safety. Meeting strangers, dating strangers, can feel dangerous. Selectivity results. Disinclination to sign up to the apps results.
That doesn't explain height prejudices (kind of the opposite, maybe), but I think it probably has something to do with more men using the apps, and men right-swiping on more women. My sense is that it's not very common for men to feel physically fearful about strange women, but pretty common for women to have physical safety fears when it comes to strange men - disproportionate to statistical reality, maybe, even.
You would think so anyway.
My BFF's neighbour/friend got into online dating after his marriage ended, I think he would have been in his late 40s then, presumably dating women of a comparable age. I was appalled at the number of women who would go to his home for a first meeting/date. In fact, I think most if not all did, since he was an alcoholic and too intoxicated to drive most of the time so he wasn't going anywhere.
I thought rule #1 was "meet in a public place".
Yeah. Earlier I mentioned that I had some conversations with my massage therapist (we were chatty while he worked) about his online dating. He was extremely scrupulous about first dates, wanting them to be in public, safe spaces . . . and I think mostly for the woman's sake, but maybe also partly his (but 6'3", so probably not easily intimidated, despite being mild-mannered mostly).
But keep in mind, my point was partly about why women might sign up in fewer numbers in the first place. There are confident people - even foolish people - in any demographic, I suspect.
I'm not sure how realistic it is to have major fears about online dating, honestly: I know there are risks, but I don't know if problems are actually common (vs. just well publicized) nor what the nature of the more common problems might be (especially as contrasted with problems women had when dating before online dating was a thing). If I were going to try it myself, I'd look into the risk levels, of course.
I'm not - on the scale defined by the range of women I know - at the most-scared, most easily intimidated end of the scale, in terms of doing things some women find risky. I'd say I'm probably medium to medium high risk tolerant among women I know, when it comes to things like traveling alone, walking alone at night, etc. My suspicion is that a large fraction of women I know would be at least somewhat cautious or fearful about online dates. That said, I do know women who do it, even some who've met spouses that way.0 -
I'm not sure how realistic it is to have major fears about online dating, honestly: I know there are risks, but I don't know if problems are actually common (vs. just well publicized) nor what the nature of the more common problems might be (especially as contrasted with problems women had when dating before online dating was a thing). If I were going to try it myself, I'd look into the risk levels, of course.
Honestly I think the biggest risks are probably disappointment, boredom, and dealing with rejection.I'm not - on the scale defined by the range of women I know - at the most-scared, most easily intimidated end of the scale, in terms of doing things some women find risky. I'd say I'm probably medium to medium high risk tolerant among women I know, when it comes to things like traveling alone, walking alone at night, etc. My suspicion is that a large fraction of women I know would be at least somewhat cautious or fearful about online dates. That said, I do know women who do it, even some who've met spouses that way.
I only know one woman who's done online dating, a former coworker. That's probably due to a combination of my age and the fact that the vast majority of my friends are still in long-term marriages. Most of her misadventures in online dating were the result of men misrepresenting themselves, having wildly incompatible personalities, or just being plain rude (standing her up, ghosting, etc). Mind you, this lady is 5'11" so physical fear was less of a factor for her.2 -
T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »I know the topic here is height, but let's not forget that men also select by age, the graph would look similar probably.
I am not convinced. The reality is that, in general, women are much more choosy than men on dating apps. There is a YouTuber who does data analysis about this exact topic. Overall, most women are swiping right on a very small percentage of men. OTOH men swip right at much higher rates. Having said that, there is a lot of variability amongst men... Some swipe right 40% and others nearly 90% of the time. Most all women are swiping right less than 10% of the time.
That's because the men are (generally) looking to get laid.
No one needs a youtuber to tell them that. 😀
And it's a numbers game. I don't think anyone would try to argue that all of these right-swiping guys are carefully selecting women that they're attracted to and with whom they feel they have potential compatibility based on a thorough reading of their profile. They're just casting a wider net with the intention of filtering the matches later.
I suspect a factor in some (many?) cases, when it comes to women's behavior, is just plain literal physical fear for their safety. Meeting strangers, dating strangers, can feel dangerous. Selectivity results. Disinclination to sign up to the apps results.
That doesn't explain height prejudices (kind of the opposite, maybe), but I think it probably has something to do with more men using the apps, and men right-swiping on more women. My sense is that it's not very common for men to feel physically fearful about strange women, but pretty common for women to have physical safety fears when it comes to strange men - disproportionate to statistical reality, maybe, even.
You would think so anyway.
My BFF's neighbour/friend got into online dating after his marriage ended, I think he would have been in his late 40s then, presumably dating women of a comparable age. I was appalled at the number of women who would go to his home for a first meeting/date. In fact, I think most if not all did, since he was an alcoholic and too intoxicated to drive most of the time so he wasn't going anywhere.
I thought rule #1 was "meet in a public place".
Yes, meeting in a public place is important... believe it or not, it is really common for men to get attacked when they meet women. Or at least when they think they are going to meet a woman. This is a way that other people (men, women, sometimes a team of both) rob men - they pretend to be someone really attractive on a dating app and men fall for it.3 -
The Bumble filter date is not saying what the person says.
Advanced filters are a paid for feature, and even of women paying for it, this is only showing women who have set a preference.
Nor does the filter work the way it's being implied. The 90% there represents that number is considered acceptable by those that have it. So like 32% of paying filter using women are saying they won't date a 6'11" man, and ~60% are saying they won't date a 7' or taller man.1 -
As mentioned earlier in the thread I'm 5' 10" and my husband is about 5' 8" ish (he has shrunk about an inch in the last 35 years due to back problems/compression).
Someone said to me the other day that I probably hope that I shrink as I age (ummm .. no!) because I "tower over him" now. I am two inches taller. Since when is a two inch height difference considered "towering over" someone? People really do have some weird ideas about women being tall.3 -
@ythannah "Mind you, this lady is 5'11" so physical fear was less of a factor for her."
This is an example of heightism. I'm short but have the temperament of a honey badger.
There are two pieces, though: How the person themselves thinks/feels/behaves based on their height (or other visible characteristics), and how a range of other people might treat them based on stereotyping based on their height (or other visible characteristics). The treatment, if recurrent, also can shape how the person so treated sees the world.
How inclined others are to see one as a target for manipulation/abuse, and how capable one is at dealing with that abuse**: Also two different things, as you - a non-tall honey badger - seem to realize. Sometimes victimizers guess wrong, but I'm betting they do use stereotypes (including maybe heightism), in guessing which victims to pick.
I've never been a tall woman, so I don't know whether there's a difference in . . . victim choice, I guess I'd call it? . . . by victimizers, that affects tall women and short women differently?
I've certainly seen men treat other men differently based on size. (It's not always the "pick on the short guy" scenario, either: A 6'5" gentle-natured male friend had recurring problems with aggressive drunks wanting to pick fights with him at bars, totally unprovoked by him, presumably as a show of their masculinity . . . or something?)
Women are routinely advise not to "look like a victim" on the street, i.e. one should walk briskly, make brief but assertive eye contact with others rather than looking down at the sidewalk, and all manner of other details. If tall women look less like victim-candidates, to victimizers, have fewer negative encounters, that can have an effect on fear levels.
** A favorite personal story from the news here, some years back, only marginally relevant to this thread: A mobility-impaired (cane user) 60-something woman was helping her even more disabled brother into her car. A mugger thought they looked like a good target, tried to rob them in daylight in their own neighborhood. Outcome: Woman beat the bejeepers out of mugger with her cane, and he ran away, with energy. Victim stereotyping gone wrong . . . apparently an elderly female honey badger?😉5 -
I would of thought Meet in a public place and for a relatively short time - eg at a cafe for coffee - was a standard rule for all first dating, both for safety and for 'escape practicality', ie you are not stuck together for long period or difficult to remove oneself politely - not just online dating and completely unrelated to either person's height.2
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@ythannah "Mind you, this lady is 5'11" so physical fear was less of a factor for her."
This is an example of heightism. I'm short but have the temperament of a honey badger.
Realistically, a person who is 5'11" is likely going to be more difficult to subdue physically than one who is 5'1". Or, as Ann points out above, will be perceived as a less easy target.
The SO is 6'9" and has never had to fight in his life. All he has to do is stand up.0 -
I was trying to suggest a friend meet a guy I know because she needs a nice guy and this is a nice guy but she declined since he doesn't have the right look or height! I was shocked cause isn't what's inside that counts? I get being attracted to a certain look but to simply discount someone cause of physical attributes floored me.
I don't understand the height thing. I'm on the taller side for a woman so I'm used to, especially when wearing heels, being taller or as tall as many men. It certainly is a thing but I just don't understand why. I'd rather someone treat me well and be kind than be 6 feel tall.2 -
Realistically, a person who is 5'11" is likely going to be more difficult to subdue physically than one who is 5'1".
Yeah, I was going to bring this up. I've been physically picked up, put over a shoulder, and carried out of a bar by a tall drunk man, and no amount of "No," "Stop," or "Put me down" did anything. He was too strong for me to get away. He dropped me in the parking lot, and the only thing anybody did to help me was tell the guy to give up his keys because he was too drunk to drive. I don't think any of my tall friends have ever been *literally* picked up and moved somewhere by a stranger, and it's hella scary.7 -
I don’t think it is true that men have no luck on dating apps. Until I met my husband I had a hard time as a woman. I got a lot of dates but majority of guys were not looking to be serious and it became very clear to me that most of the guys I met were juggling multiple women at a time. So clearly, those men had no problem getting dates…….
Regarding preferences, everyone is entitled to them. Plenty of men I know want a slender, younger woman, a blonde woman, or unrealistic proportions ie slim with large breasts that don’t often come naturally without plastic surgery. I can’t meet those expectations. I’m not sure why men would be upset if I prefer a taller man.5 -
I don’t think it is true that men have no luck on dating apps. Until I met my husband I had a hard time as a woman. I got a lot of dates but majority of guys were not looking to be serious and it became very clear to me that most of the guys I met were juggling multiple women at a time. So clearly, those men had no problem getting dates…….
Regarding preferences, everyone is entitled to them. Plenty of men I know want a slender, younger woman, a blonde woman, or unrealistic proportions ie slim with large breasts that don’t often come naturally without plastic surgery. I can’t meet those expectations. I’m not sure why men would be upset if I prefer a taller man.
Here is the difference between most women on dating apps and most men...I got a lot of dates
Here is a video where someone reviewed Tinder data between men and women:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPuQ1Wjd2Rk&ab_channel=BetterBachelor
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I don’t think it is true that men have no luck on dating apps. Until I met my husband I had a hard time as a woman. I got a lot of dates but majority of guys were not looking to be serious and it became very clear to me that most of the guys I met were juggling multiple women at a time. So clearly, those men had no problem getting dates…….
Regarding preferences, everyone is entitled to them. Plenty of men I know want a slender, younger woman, a blonde woman, or unrealistic proportions ie slim with large breasts that don’t often come naturally without plastic surgery. I can’t meet those expectations. I’m not sure why men would be upset if I prefer a taller man.
No one is upset by individual personal preferences, or by the fact that you prefer a taller man. Men are saying that most women prefer taller men, so obviously someone who is on the shorter side is going to be upset, because it limits their chances of finding a partner. And if most women's preferences are influenced by (ridiculous and outdated) societal contructs then it why wouldn't short men be upset by that?
It makes perfect sense to me that 5' 3" man would be upset by (probably repeatedly) being rejected as an unsuitable partner, and even less masculine, simply due to his height.
Also - you already stated you only date tall men. So maybe those are the ones who had no problem getting dates and were dating multiple women? I mean men are literally on here saying it is hard for them and you don't believe them?0 -
Oh my god, I just heard the most hilarious form of height-ism: Someone just said they don't date short women because they're not a pedophile. Apparently this tool thinks every woman under 5'5" is literally a child, and I just.... what? WHAT?!?7
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"I don't get mad. I can't get mad. When you're really tall, you can't get angry."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SC1MSxv-DUU 0 -
So a lot of women would date men that are 7 feet tall? Interesting.
Not me. I dated someone 6'8" once, and, while it may have been that particular guy, it felt wrong being next to him. As it did with guys under a certain height.
I'm not going to argue with my lizard brain about this
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If I posted a profile, it would 100% have things in it that I think would be deal-breakers for a lot of silly or unsuited men (i.e., opinionated, argumentative, eccentric, poor housekeeper, sarcastic, likes being every minute of her (advanced) true age and looking it. . . .). I don't even want to have that ice-breaker mid-day coffee date with incompatible idiots. Ugh.
Everybody has their deal-breaker things. And that's okay, we can't expect to appeal to everyone. Lord only knows, I'm sure being a tall woman has put off many possible suitors in my past.
For example, although I'm a huge animal lover, I could never date a cat owner. I'm violently allergic to cats and I can't see a relationship going very far if I'm allergic to the dude, his clothes, his home. That's just a practical consideration.
Of course, I'd have deal breakers, too, if I cared to deal.
My point is not "why do people do have deal-breakers" but "why do 3rd parties get angry about people having what they think are arbitrary, ridiculous deal-breakers, when that (the published silly deal-breakers) stop the 3rd parties from wasting their time dating people who think things the 3rd parties find dumb".
It's a service. If I *were* online dating and someone put a deal-breaker in their profile, I'd say (to myself) "thank you for letting me skip you". Silly criteria are just a form of deal-breaker. Why want to date someone that silly? Why not be glad they revealed right up front that they're silly?
Yes, I always used current pictures on my profile and also mentioned in text that I was overweight. I knew women who used pictures that made them look a good 40 pounds lighter. And I met a number of men who used pictures that were 15 years or so old. I don't see the point in creating a false impression that then needs to be overcome.
I worked hard to ensure compatibility so as to not waste our time.3
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