Calorie help, TDEE and BMR

lucyfilmmaker

Good morning,

I'm hoping someone can help me figure out how many calories I should be eating, because I'm having trouble getting a good solid answer and for some reason my brain just can't compute.

I had testing done, and my BMR was 2409. Apart from 30 minutes of exercise 4 times a week I'm essentially sedentary, now that I work from home.

I thought I understood that I shouldn't eat below my BMR, but there needs to be a calorie deficit. I'm shooting for between 500 and 1000 as a deficit, but I'm pretty sure my math is off because I've calculated my TDEE as 2775 (without exercise), so I generally try to eat between 1775 (1000) and 2275 (500). Both are below my BMR, so I'm concerned that the loss I've achieved (7.4lbs in 2 weeks) isn't likely to continue if I'm taking in less than my BMR.

TLDR my BMR is 2409 and I'm sedentary (I can calculate the working out into my intake), how many calories should I be eating to lose ~2lbs per week?

Thanks!

steveko89

In my judgement, BMR is largely irrelevant; deficit with relation to TDEE is the driver for weight loss. Further, regardless of BMR, do not expect a loss of 3.5+lbs/week going further; 1000 cal/day is requisite for 2lb/week, thus 500 cal/day is requisite for 1lb/week. It's not uncharacteristic to see a quick drop at the start of a diet, especially if someone is cutting carbs, as the body will lose water weight pretty rapidly and then level off. A good rule of thumb is to aim for no more than 1% body weight loss per week to avoid any negative effects. Per a recent episode of the RP Strength podcast, they've done some analysis on their user base and find the most successful dieters favor shorter diets (6-9 weeks) at more moderate goals (0.6% loss/week). If applied to someone with a lot of weight to lose, they may find more success taking a step-wise approach to diet for 6-9 weeks followed by a maintenance period of half of whatever the diet period is.

janejellyroll

As said above, your BMR is irrelevant to your weight loss -- what you want to base your deficit on is your TDEE (how many calories you're actually using per day). Even if you're sedentary, it's unlikely that you're staying in bed all day. And you're also exercising, so that's relevant.

TDEE includes exercise, so I'm not sure how you're calculating it without exercise. You may be referring to NEAT (which is the calories you burn in daily life, not counting exercise). NEAT is what MFP uses -- the intention is that you will create a deficit based on your NEAT and then eat back the calories burnt through exercise. If you're using NEAT as if it was your TDEE and not eating back the calories from exercise, there is the possibility that your deficit will wind up being too large and you may struggle with hunger or achieving your fitness goals.

Right now it sounds like you're losing pretty rapidly, which may or may not continue. If you're currently feeling fine on what you're eating, it may be worth giving it a few more weeks and seeing what your trend is and adjusting from there.

lucyfilmmaker

I guess my biggest issue is that both 500 and 1000 calories below my TDEE is below my BMR, which a nutritionist warned me against. I'm not sure how to eat enough for all my base needs and still have that deficit.

wunderkindking

If you add in the calories you burn during those 4X a week exercise calories, you will probably be above BDM even with a deficit. Or just adjust to lightly active when calculating.

That said, if you don't have a lot to lose, 500-1000 calories is too steep a deficit. 250 or .5 lb a week is about the most you can do.

I just went and my BMR is 1451.

My TDEE (as a sedentary base lifestyle person) is 1653-1730 depending on calculator.

If I did a 500 deficit and DIDN"T eat back exercise calories, I'd be eating under my BMR, too. I tried to do 1,000 less calories I'd be eating HALF my BMR, which is asinine (600-700 calories a day? Lol, no.)

Adding in calories from some light exercise and having a reasonable deficit means I lose just fine at 1500-1600. Not a pound or two a week, but 3ish pounds a month which is fine.

that said I don't worry about BMR. I make sure I hit 1200 calories every day but occasionally under BMR isn't going to make me die, either.

steveko89

lucyfilmmaker wrote: »

I guess my biggest issue is that both 500 and 1000 calories below my TDEE is below my BMR, which a nutritionist warned me against. I'm not sure how to eat enough for all my base needs and still have that deficit.

Again, eating below BMR doesn't matter. Personally, I'd be skeptical of that nutritionists credentials or motive as that's the sort of pseudoscientific advice that's a red flag for me. As far as your base needs are concerned, the minimum recommendation for protein is 0.8 g/kg or 0.36 g/lb, fat should be 20-35% of your total calories and there's not really a minimum on carbs. To preserve muscle while on a deficit you'll likely want to get a higher protein number than that and if you consume meat you'll likely hit your fat min without issue.

As far as TDEE calculators go, I'm partial to the one linked below and find it pretty accurate based on my observed maintenance level.

https://tdeecalculator.net/result.php?s=imperial&age=30&g=female&lbs=350&in=64&act=1.2&bf=&f=1

*DISCLAIMER: NOT A MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL - I threw some stones about the nutritionist's credentials while having none in the field. I'm just some guy on the internet who considers himself reasonably successful and educated in this realm.

lgfrie

Just ignore BMR. It's the number of calories you'd burn if you were in a coma. For those not in a coma, it has no meaning other than that it is a number by which a coefficient will be multiplied by to determine NEAT and TDEE. There's nothing at all bad about eating below BMR, because BMR is a theoretical construct that doesn't apply to anything unless you're in a coma.

Just go the MFP Goals tool above, enter your gender, weight, height, and age, and tell it how many pounds you want to lose per week, and it will tell you how many calories to eat. Eat that amount of calories, every day, and you will lose the specified amount of weight, +/- 10 %.

The MFP Goals tool has been so accurate for so many people that it behooves anyone trying to get things going to at least give it a shot and see what happens. You can always fine-tune later.

For my first 50 pounds of weight loss, MFP goal's tool was well within one percent accuracy. I ate exactly how many calories MFP said to eat, every day. I believe I had lost 50.4 pounds at the point when I should have lost 50 - something like that.

heybales

lucyfilmmaker wrote: »

Good morning,

I'm hoping someone can help me figure out how many calories I should be eating, because I'm having trouble getting a good solid answer and for some reason my brain just can't compute.

I had testing done, and my BMR was 2409. Apart from 30 minutes of exercise 4 times a week I'm essentially sedentary, now that I work from home.

I thought I understood that I shouldn't eat below my BMR, but there needs to be a calorie deficit. I'm shooting for between 500 and 1000 as a deficit, but I'm pretty sure my math is off because I've calculated my TDEE as 2775 (without exercise), so I generally try to eat between 1775 (1000) and 2275 (500). Both are below my BMR, so I'm concerned that the loss I've achieved (7.4lbs in 2 weeks) isn't likely to continue if I'm taking in less than my BMR.

TLDR my BMR is 2409 and I'm sedentary (I can calculate the working out into my intake), how many calories should I be eating to lose ~2lbs per week?

Thanks!

Curious what the bolded testing was?

Some people hold on to a body fat % estimator and it spits out several figures one of which is BMR and they think they got an actual BMR measurement.
Not so.

If you went in and had a hood over your head for 15-30 min while resting in the dark awake - that was an RMR test.
RMR is higher than BMR by a bit.

Whatever the end result, ditto's to enough protein and don't worry about initial eating goal being below a BMR figure.

As you lose weight, you should slow the loss, less deficit and probably moving more will make TDEE the same or higher while BMR drops, and eating goal could stay the same or increase.
As you come in to healthier weight range you likely won't be eating below BMR then when keeping the rate reasonable.

And no that loss rate won't continue as you are likely counting the week including water weight drop.
But you should adjust eating goal to keep at 2 lbs weekly until down to 50 lbs left to healthy weight.

glassyo

lgfrie wrote: »

Just ignore BMR. It's the number of calories you'd burn if you were in a coma. For those not in a coma, it has no meaning other than that it is a number by which a coefficient will be multiplied by to determine NEAT and TDEE. There's nothing at all bad about eating below BMR, because BMR is a theoretical construct that doesn't apply to anything unless you're in a coma.

This doesn't make sense to me. If you only take bmr into account when you're in a coma but you're eating below bmr when you're not, how is that not bad?

lgfrie

glassyo wrote: »

lgfrie wrote: »

Just ignore BMR. It's the number of calories you'd burn if you were in a coma. For those not in a coma, it has no meaning other than that it is a number by which a coefficient will be multiplied by to determine NEAT and TDEE. There's nothing at all bad about eating below BMR, because BMR is a theoretical construct that doesn't apply to anything unless you're in a coma.

This doesn't make sense to me. If you only take bmr into account when you're in a coma but you're eating below bmr when you're not, how is that not bad?

Because your body has fat stores. When intake is less than caloric requirements, it uses those fat stores to fuel the body. Not only is that the basis of weight loss, it's also exactly what you're trying to achieve when you diet.

Example:

Bob is in a coma. The doctors must know what his BMR is so that they can provide the correct amount of nutrition so that he doesn't starve or gain weight. They determine that his BMR is 1800, so they hook up the feeding tubes and pump him full of 1800 calories worth of stuff.

Six months later, Bob comes out of the coma and gets back to his life. He watches a lot of TV and drinks a lot of beer, and gains 70 pounds.

One day he says to himself, "Man, I am in bad shape. I need to lose 70 pounds."

He goes to TDEEcalculator.net and finds out his TDEE is 2600. He decides to lost 2 pounds per week, which requires a daily deficit of 1,000 calories. So he sets his caloric intake to 1600. And voila, he loses 2 pounds a week.

Notice that Bob's intake of 1600 calories is less than his BMR. And also notice that his BMR is irrelevant. Bob is *intentionally* eating less food than his body wants, so that it will reach into its fat stores and burn them off. That is not a bug, it's a feature.

Bob's TDEE of 2600 is the relevant variable in all this. At 2600 of caloric intake, he neither loses nor gains weight. At less than 2600 he loses weight and at over 2600 he gains. The BMR of 1800 means nothing to Bob, although when he was on a gurney it meant a lot to his medical team. Anyone who's not on a gurney should ignore BMR.