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If no medical assistance and fitness was applied.................

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  • Theo166Theo166 Member, Premium Posts: 2,496 Member Member, Premium Posts: 2,496 Member

    This video references recent research indicating half a million hospitalizations could have been prevented with better health/weight levels in the USA.



  • ninerbuffninerbuff Member, Greeter Posts: 44,775 Member Member, Greeter Posts: 44,775 Member
    Theo166 wrote: »
    This video references recent research indicating half a million hospitalizations could have been prevented with better health/weight levels in the USA.


    Well that's obvious. But again, if they aren't doing it, taking meds (like blood thinners, etc.) are ASSISTING in healthier outcomes. Like my OP stated, if NOT for medical assistance, lots of people especially NOW would perish.
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  • Theo166Theo166 Member, Premium Posts: 2,496 Member Member, Premium Posts: 2,496 Member
    nooshi713 wrote: »
    Theo166 wrote: »
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    What about vaccines for diseases? Or antibiotics for infections? Or surgery because of accidents?
    Most antibiotics reduce the intensity or duration of an infection which is different than saving a life. For example, treating acne is a major reason to take it (impacts quality of life, not duration). I've never taken it to save my life
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    What about vaccines for diseases? Or antibiotics for infections? Or surgery because of accidents? Or treatments for cancer or poisoning?
    Majority would mean that the majority of people go to hospitals for what you mentioned when most are in there because they are sick, injured or need medical attention.

    If you are saying zero medical intervention, probably the life of women would be noticeable shortened due to increased death from child birth.

    For reference, the most common OR procedures are:
    1. cesarean section (saves some lives though many would go fine with natural birth)
    2. circumcision (no impact to length of life)
    3. Arthrosplasty knee (quality of life, not length)
    4. Hip replacement (quality of life, not length)
    5. Spinal fusion (quality of life, not length)
    6. Coronary angioplasty (does extend length of life)

    Poisoning is very rare in our modern world and very few people per capita go to hospital for life saving surgery following an accident.

    So because YOU have never taken an antibiotic to save your life, antibiotics don’t do much to save lives??? Your position is extremely ignorant.

    Are you a physician, public health worker, nurse?? Do you work in a sepsis center, ICU? I doubt it.

    Antibiotics do save lives and often. Many illnesses that start off as minor can quickly become life or limb threatening if untreated.

    Also, motor vehicle accidents are one of the major causes of death among younger people. Trauma surgeons save lives all of the time.

    Back in the day, a ruptured appendix would be deadly. Most people survive this condition now. 1/10 people get acute appendicitis in their lives. That’s not a small number of people.

    I never said what you say I did, so you created a 'straw man'
    Makes it easy to win your argument though ;)

    To paraphrase what I've said over many posts
    - obviously antibiotics save lives, but they are not the primary reason life expectancy has increased
    - most modern medical interventions are about improving 'quality of life' than 'saving lives'
  • nooshi713nooshi713 Member Posts: 4,394 Member Member Posts: 4,394 Member
    Dialysis, that’s a good one. Dialysis is very cumbersome and it seems to me that most dialysis patients have quite a poor quality of life. Dialysis doesn’t improve the patient’s qualify of life but it does keep them alive. Most dialysis patients can’t go a week or two without dialysis without dying. We have massive amounts of people on dialysis now, especially with so many diabetics in this country.
    edited March 20
  • AnnPT77AnnPT77 Member, Premium Posts: 19,499 Member Member, Premium Posts: 19,499 Member
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    Theo166 wrote: »
    nooshi713 wrote: »
    Theo166 wrote: »
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    What about vaccines for diseases? Or antibiotics for infections? Or surgery because of accidents?
    Most antibiotics reduce the intensity or duration of an infection which is different than saving a life. For example, treating acne is a major reason to take it (impacts quality of life, not duration). I've never taken it to save my life
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    What about vaccines for diseases? Or antibiotics for infections? Or surgery because of accidents? Or treatments for cancer or poisoning?
    Majority would mean that the majority of people go to hospitals for what you mentioned when most are in there because they are sick, injured or need medical attention.

    If you are saying zero medical intervention, probably the life of women would be noticeable shortened due to increased death from child birth.

    For reference, the most common OR procedures are:
    1. cesarean section (saves some lives though many would go fine with natural birth)
    2. circumcision (no impact to length of life)
    3. Arthrosplasty knee (quality of life, not length)
    4. Hip replacement (quality of life, not length)
    5. Spinal fusion (quality of life, not length)
    6. Coronary angioplasty (does extend length of life)

    Poisoning is very rare in our modern world and very few people per capita go to hospital for life saving surgery following an accident.

    So because YOU have never taken an antibiotic to save your life, antibiotics don’t do much to save lives??? Your position is extremely ignorant.

    Are you a physician, public health worker, nurse?? Do you work in a sepsis center, ICU? I doubt it.

    Antibiotics do save lives and often. Many illnesses that start off as minor can quickly become life or limb threatening if untreated.

    Also, motor vehicle accidents are one of the major causes of death among younger people. Trauma surgeons save lives all of the time.

    Back in the day, a ruptured appendix would be deadly. Most people survive this condition now. 1/10 people get acute appendicitis in their lives. That’s not a small number of people.

    I never said what you say I did, so you created a 'straw man'
    Makes it easy to win your argument though ;)

    To paraphrase what I've said over many posts
    - obviously antibiotics save lives, but they are not the primary reason life expectancy has increased
    - most modern medical interventions are about improving 'quality of life' than 'saving lives'
    Well let's look again.

    Most medical intervention does more to "improve the quality of life than broadly extend everyone's life."
    No straw man. You've discounted cancer treatments, blood thinners, hormonal replacement, dialysis, etc.
    While medical intervention to improve quality exists, the majority of people aren't going to hospitals because they are well. Wherever you're getting your info on this, you need to link it.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png



    No (*baby feline*). I'd be dead long before today if not for modern medicine. Stage III (advanced) breast cancer, with slightly better odds of surviving 5 years (60%, specifically, I was told) than of dying . . . that's *with* the modern medical treatment. That was 20+ years ago.

    My quality of life after diagnosis (itself dependent on modern med tech)? Worse. (Not at all bad, but unquestionably worse.)

    Lots worse in the short run (chemotherapy is a *really* bad hobby). A little worse in the long run (seems to be permanent cognitive degradation, musculoskeletal problems from scar tissue because of radiation treatments on top of then-recent surgery, among other things).

    Modern medicine made my life *longer*. I'm glad, very glad. It made my quality of life a little bit worse, but I'm glad anyway, because alive is a really good start on the rest of my day, every single day, for those 20+ years now.

    I'm far, far from the only one.

    "Most" medical intervention is about quality of life, vs. broadly extending life? Maybe. But F that whole blithe, naive idea regardless, frankly, from my n=1 subjective personal perspective. Lots of people are alive now, who wouldn't be, if not for modern medicine.

    More types of cancer are more survivable today than they were even 20 years ago. The stats are quite clear. That's a lot of people whose lives are longer. Childhood cancers in particular are much more survivable than they were in my childhood, which gives a bigger boost to population stats than late-life cancer survival. And cancer's just one piece.

    Population level mortality stats net out a lot of things: Medical improvements, more risky individual behavior, health & safety regulations, increases in opioid overdose and suicide related to psychosocial factors in modern life, and much, much more . . . .
  • Theo166Theo166 Member, Premium Posts: 2,496 Member Member, Premium Posts: 2,496 Member
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    Theo166 wrote: »
    nooshi713 wrote: »
    Theo166 wrote: »
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    What about vaccines for diseases? Or antibiotics for infections? Or surgery because of accidents?
    Most antibiotics reduce the intensity or duration of an infection which is different than saving a life. For example, treating acne is a major reason to take it (impacts quality of life, not duration). I've never taken it to save my life
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    What about vaccines for diseases? Or antibiotics for infections? Or surgery because of accidents? Or treatments for cancer or poisoning?
    Majority would mean that the majority of people go to hospitals for what you mentioned when most are in there because they are sick, injured or need medical attention.

    If you are saying zero medical intervention, probably the life of women would be noticeable shortened due to increased death from child birth.

    For reference, the most common OR procedures are:
    1. cesarean section (saves some lives though many would go fine with natural birth)
    2. circumcision (no impact to length of life)
    3. Arthrosplasty knee (quality of life, not length)
    4. Hip replacement (quality of life, not length)
    5. Spinal fusion (quality of life, not length)
    6. Coronary angioplasty (does extend length of life)

    Poisoning is very rare in our modern world and very few people per capita go to hospital for life saving surgery following an accident.

    So because YOU have never taken an antibiotic to save your life, antibiotics don’t do much to save lives??? Your position is extremely ignorant.

    Are you a physician, public health worker, nurse?? Do you work in a sepsis center, ICU? I doubt it.

    Antibiotics do save lives and often. Many illnesses that start off as minor can quickly become life or limb threatening if untreated.

    Also, motor vehicle accidents are one of the major causes of death among younger people. Trauma surgeons save lives all of the time.

    Back in the day, a ruptured appendix would be deadly. Most people survive this condition now. 1/10 people get acute appendicitis in their lives. That’s not a small number of people.

    I never said what you say I did, so you created a 'straw man'
    Makes it easy to win your argument though ;)

    To paraphrase what I've said over many posts
    - obviously antibiotics save lives, but they are not the primary reason life expectancy has increased
    - most modern medical interventions are about improving 'quality of life' than 'saving lives'
    Well let's look again.

    Most medical intervention does more to "improve the quality of life than broadly extend everyone's life."
    No straw man. You've discounted cancer treatments, blood thinners, hormonal replacement, dialysis, etc.
    While medical intervention to improve quality exists, the majority of people aren't going to hospitals because they are well. Wherever you're getting your info on this, you need to link it.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png



    This was the strawman, and why are you responding for someone else?
    So because YOU have never taken an antibiotic to save your life, antibiotics don’t do much to save lives??? Your position is extremely ignorant.
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