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COVID19 - To Vaccinate or To Not Vaccinate
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"Results from the long-awaited US trial of the Oxford-AstraZeneca Covid vaccine are out and confirm that the shot is both safe and highly effective.
More than 32,000 volunteers took part, mostly in America, but also in Chile and Peru.
The vaccine was 79% effective at stopping symptomatic Covid disease and 100% effective at preventing people from falling seriously ill."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56479462
Don't suppose even these remarkable results from a very large trial will influence the dimwits opposed to vaccinations but should reassure those that are on the fence or have genuine concerns.
Also, news reports are saying that they specifically looked for the blood clotting issue some of Europe has been concerned about. They saw zero instances. This doesn't mean it doesn't happen - the report I heard was careful to say that - but it does mean that at worst it's *extremely* rare.
The data that caused panic in Europe showed 7 people out of 1 million developed a blood clot. The incidence of blood clots in the general population is 1-2 people per 1,000. Many people develop blood clots for a variety of reasons that have nothing to do with the vaccine. Many people got freaked out over nothing!
I don't know if this is true, and I have no way of checking it out. All I can say was that the source was not ultra-fringe-y (it was a radio report I heard in passing, either NPR or BBC, talking to someone from the science community in Europe, I believe).
What was said was that in the cases that caused concern, the *type* of blood clots were a part of what caused concern. IIRC, they said there was a "whole body" widespread aspect that made the cases especially unusual, and that the similarity to a symptom that had been seen in some severe (deadly) Covid cases, was part of the reason for extra caution.
Like I said, I have neither sources nor expertise to evaluate this claim, but am mentioning it because others may have those resources.
I completely agree with you (Nooshi) that looking at incidence of blood clots in a statistical sense, there was overcaution, possibly detrimental in a big-picture sense. At the time, I assumed there might be a PR aspect to this, i.e., if the cases are publicized in a sensational way, the authorities *not* reacting may feed conspiracy theories and vaccine hesitancy, in ways that will increase future odds of disease spread more than the pause for investigation. But that last was pure speculation on my part.
It's tempting to assume, as a member of the general public, that European authorities were over-reacting and irresponsible, but I have a degree of learned caution about making assumptions when I don't have full details. In particular, listening to international (such as BBC) coverage of US events I'm quite familiar with, I have some sense that as one gets further from the sources, the coverage can get more broad-brush, to the point of leading to inaccurate conclusions.
Again, I'm not advancing the "unusual type of blood clots" as a truth. It's a report I heard, for which I have no independent, authoritative confirmation.snowflake954 wrote: »The story of one of the cases of death after the Astra vaccine is this: A military family man, 43 yrs old, in apparent good health, was vaccinated in the morning. He took his son to soccer practice as usual, and even played a bit with the boy. Late afternoon started to feel a little off, headache, etc., so took a Tylenol type tablet (as told to if there are light symptoms). During the night his wife said he suddenly felt awful and she called an ambulance. He died quickly.
Now, the story was told the day after by the widow on national TV. She said she was not against the vaccine, seemed very level-headed, but wanted to know what killed her husband. Now we still don't have the autopsy report--it was said it would take 2 weeks and now it's about that. The vaccinations were halted to stop panic. They needed more information to go forward. After a few days of study of the other cases, it was decided to proceed. I think they did the right thing, at least in Italy. It's a hard call.
And yes, I will get the vaccine when I'm up (my BIL is a doctor and after all he's seen, you don't want to take your chances with COVID). I will take any of the vaccines, AstraZeneca included.
The thing is, in the ER we see these types of rare problems and diseases regularly because typically when something goes really wrong, people come to the ER. These things have been happening long before Covid was a thing. There are plenty of instances of young otherwise healthy people who comes in with major problems. In the grand scheme of things, these conditions may be rare but we see them in the ER more. A few people out of a million doesn’t prove or even suggest anything. I’m not saying either of you were suggesting this. Just responding with my take on it.2 -
rheddmobile wrote: »cmriverside wrote: »So maybe he's afraid of needles.
Which...
I'm intensely needle-phobic, and it's getting worse with age, but I'll be getting the vaccine. Common sense prevails.
If it helps it’s a tiny needle, like a thread. I was staring right at it as it went in and I couldn’t feel the stick, just pressure. Like being bitten by a mosquito, you don’t feel a needle that small very much.
Thank you! I am not able to look at it or I will pass out cold. I'm not even that good with seeing the syringe waving around before it comes anywhere near me, or watching someone get an injection on TV, I'm that phobic. I really enjoy watching the show Intervention but I spend half the episode with my head turned when they feature an IV drug user.
But at least if I don't feel it, I can pretend it's not happening.3 -
Pretty sure that if you can figure out who controls your microchip, you can pay them for that service. But you have to get the vax first, poke-y-wise, sadly.
For the very literal: Joking. JOKING!3 -
cmriverside wrote: »So maybe he's afraid of needles.
Which...
I'm intensely needle-phobic, and it's getting worse with age, but I'll be getting the vaccine. Common sense prevails.
Trypanophobia...it's a b*tch!
I can pass out, just by seeing a needle
Still i will get the vaccin when i get the change, if not for me, it's for my wife who is a lung patient (astma) and my parents who i can't give a hug right now4 -
rheddmobile wrote: »cmriverside wrote: »So maybe he's afraid of needles.
Which...
I'm intensely needle-phobic, and it's getting worse with age, but I'll be getting the vaccine. Common sense prevails.
If it helps it’s a tiny needle, like a thread. I was staring right at it as it went in and I couldn’t feel the stick, just pressure. Like being bitten by a mosquito, you don’t feel a needle that small very much.
Thank you! I am not able to look at it or I will pass out cold. I'm not even that good with seeing the syringe waving around before it comes anywhere near me, or watching someone get an injection on TV, I'm that phobic. I really enjoy watching the show Intervention but I spend half the episode with my head turned when they feature an IV drug user.
But at least if I don't feel it, I can pretend it's not happening.
This is so recognizable...0 -
OEH! i want in on this one
maybe if we write a letter together they will make it for us1 -
Minion_training_program wrote: »
OEH! i want in on this one
maybe if we write a letter together they will make it for us
Yes! We can maybe get a BOGO deal!
I am quite candid about my issue with medical personnel and I have found most are very accommodating. They always distract me with idle chatter while they do the deed.0 -
Minion_training_program wrote: »rheddmobile wrote: »cmriverside wrote: »So maybe he's afraid of needles.
Which...
I'm intensely needle-phobic, and it's getting worse with age, but I'll be getting the vaccine. Common sense prevails.
If it helps it’s a tiny needle, like a thread. I was staring right at it as it went in and I couldn’t feel the stick, just pressure. Like being bitten by a mosquito, you don’t feel a needle that small very much.
Thank you! I am not able to look at it or I will pass out cold. I'm not even that good with seeing the syringe waving around before it comes anywhere near me, or watching someone get an injection on TV, I'm that phobic. I really enjoy watching the show Intervention but I spend half the episode with my head turned when they feature an IV drug user.
But at least if I don't feel it, I can pretend it's not happening.
This is so recognizable...
My mother was an RN for many years. I remember her saying that she told squeamish folks to cover their eyes when the shot was coming. There was also advice to cough at the moment of the "stick" to distract the patient.0 -
My mom said that she didn’t even feel it either time.0
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rheddmobile wrote: »cmriverside wrote: »So maybe he's afraid of needles.
Which...
I'm intensely needle-phobic, and it's getting worse with age, but I'll be getting the vaccine. Common sense prevails.
If it helps it’s a tiny needle, like a thread. I was staring right at it as it went in and I couldn’t feel the stick, just pressure. Like being bitten by a mosquito, you don’t feel a needle that small very much.
Thank you! I am not able to look at it or I will pass out cold. I'm not even that good with seeing the syringe waving around before it comes anywhere near me, or watching someone get an injection on TV, I'm that phobic. I really enjoy watching the show Intervention but I spend half the episode with my head turned when they feature an IV drug user.
But at least if I don't feel it, I can pretend it's not happening.
If you ever want to, I've found that exposure therapy can address needle phobia. My daughter had extreme needle phobia but required regular blood draws and injections for medical reasons. It reached the point that she could not access necessary health care. We worked with a specialist in phobias to do progressive exposure therapy, and while it's been harrowing, she now can get shots, and is scheduled for a blood draw soon. It involves doing uncomfortable but tolerable amounts of exposure to whatever your phobic about, until they get kind of boring, and then taking it up a level progressively. The human mind can get bored of almost anything given enough exposure
Your milage may vary, but I just wanted to put it out there for any needle phobic people who are perhaps going without healthcare (vaccinations, etc) because it's not possible for them right now. 2 -
siobhanaoife wrote: »rheddmobile wrote: »cmriverside wrote: »So maybe he's afraid of needles.
Which...
I'm intensely needle-phobic, and it's getting worse with age, but I'll be getting the vaccine. Common sense prevails.
If it helps it’s a tiny needle, like a thread. I was staring right at it as it went in and I couldn’t feel the stick, just pressure. Like being bitten by a mosquito, you don’t feel a needle that small very much.
Thank you! I am not able to look at it or I will pass out cold. I'm not even that good with seeing the syringe waving around before it comes anywhere near me, or watching someone get an injection on TV, I'm that phobic. I really enjoy watching the show Intervention but I spend half the episode with my head turned when they feature an IV drug user.
But at least if I don't feel it, I can pretend it's not happening.
If you ever want to, I've found that exposure therapy can address needle phobia. My daughter had extreme needle phobia but required regular blood draws and injections for medical reasons. It reached the point that she could not access necessary health care. We worked with a specialist in phobias to do progressive exposure therapy, and while it's been harrowing, she now can get shots, and is scheduled for a blood draw soon. It involves doing uncomfortable but tolerable amounts of exposure to whatever your phobic about, until they get kind of boring, and then taking it up a level progressively. The human mind can get bored of almost anything given enough exposure Your milage may vary, but I just wanted to put it out there for any needle phobic people who are perhaps going without healthcare (vaccinations, etc) because it's not possible for them right now.
I'm considering it, if it's available here, since I am getting worse with age. I never actually fainted from a needle until after I turned 50.
I've never gone without health care because of it, not after my late teens and early 20s anyway. I just buckle down and do it. That seems to be part of the problem. My rational mind is saying "suck it up" while my body is saying "noooo, you hate this" and knocks me out cold to prove it. Or I could just blame it on menopause like I blame everything else.6 -
siobhanaoife wrote: »rheddmobile wrote: »cmriverside wrote: »So maybe he's afraid of needles.
Which...
I'm intensely needle-phobic, and it's getting worse with age, but I'll be getting the vaccine. Common sense prevails.
If it helps it’s a tiny needle, like a thread. I was staring right at it as it went in and I couldn’t feel the stick, just pressure. Like being bitten by a mosquito, you don’t feel a needle that small very much.
Thank you! I am not able to look at it or I will pass out cold. I'm not even that good with seeing the syringe waving around before it comes anywhere near me, or watching someone get an injection on TV, I'm that phobic. I really enjoy watching the show Intervention but I spend half the episode with my head turned when they feature an IV drug user.
But at least if I don't feel it, I can pretend it's not happening.
If you ever want to, I've found that exposure therapy can address needle phobia. My daughter had extreme needle phobia but required regular blood draws and injections for medical reasons. It reached the point that she could not access necessary health care. We worked with a specialist in phobias to do progressive exposure therapy, and while it's been harrowing, she now can get shots, and is scheduled for a blood draw soon. It involves doing uncomfortable but tolerable amounts of exposure to whatever your phobic about, until they get kind of boring, and then taking it up a level progressively. The human mind can get bored of almost anything given enough exposure Your milage may vary, but I just wanted to put it out there for any needle phobic people who are perhaps going without healthcare (vaccinations, etc) because it's not possible for them right now.
I'm considering it, if it's available here, since I am getting worse with age. I never actually fainted from a needle until after I turned 50.
I've never gone without health care because of it, not after my late teens and early 20s anyway. I just buckle down and do it. That seems to be part of the problem. My rational mind is saying "suck it up" while my body is saying "noooo, you hate this" and knocks me out cold to prove it. Or I could just blame it on menopause like I blame everything else.
Same with me progressive exposure worked for my phobia - I used to have a bridge phobia and couldn't drive over or under one (even highway ramps would bother me). We had three kids and with them all doing sports I had to step up and drive them places where bridges and ramps couldn't be avoided, and it did fade with time. I barely even think of it anymore.
You can also do hypnosis, which is a similar concept (progressive exposure), but quicker.
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New information regarding vaccinating pregnant and/or lactating women. The fun version, and the popular version.
tl/dr... mRNA vaccines are still good, an maybe better in this sub-population.6 -
Got a call yesterday afternoon to let me know there was a cancellation and asked if I wanted to come in to get my first dose. Happily made the 45 minute drive.
Arm is super sore today, but I'll take it.16 -
Got Pfizer vax #1 on Tuesday. Had some headaches first two days. Arm hurt a little - not nearly as much as the flu vaccine.8
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kshama2001 wrote: »Got Pfizer vax #1 on Tuesday. Had some headaches first two days. Arm hurt a little - not nearly as much as the flu vaccine.
My wife got her first on Wednesday, thankfully no side effects. I get my first tomorrow and hoping for the same.3 -
Pfizer number #2 yesterday, a little over 24 hours past.
Slight stinging in the arm for a few minutes after the shot, nothing later . . . unless that was the reason I felt slightly tired, but at my age (65) that's just a thing that happens, especially when I get up a little earlier as I did to make it to the vax appointment, so who knows? So far today, arm is super-mildly sensitive if I press on it, might be a teensy bit swollen, but totally nothing worth any fuss, so far. (The flu vax in the Fall gave me a sore arm I could feel without pressing on it.)
I wondered how I'd feel post-vax about yesterday's workout plan. I did keep it moderate to give my immune system any energy bandwidth it wanted, but machine-rowed the normal number of meters, just a couple of minutes slower. It was fine.5 -
hobbitses333 wrote: »There is a reason there has been no corona vax to date.
Vaccine development requires funding. Previous coronaviruses that were serious enough to possibly warrant a vaccine had limited spread, and coronaviruses that spread widely weren't dangerous enough to warrant a vaccine. There has been research done, but in the competition for research money, a coronavirus has never been both dangerous enough and spread widely enough to win enough grant money to procede through development and trialing.
Yes, I heard an interesting piece about the malaria vaccine, which is only around 30% effective, and gets no where near the funding COVID did.
https://www.wbur.org/npr/979809529/covid-19-vaccine-progress-could-mean-good-news-for-malaria-vaccine
"...probably in the 10 months of 2020, in excess of $14 billion were invested in developing SARS-CoV-2 vaccines. The one [malaria] vaccine that we have, RTS,S - that's taken 30 years to develop, probably all along received far less than $1 billion. So vaccines against malaria because they are targeted to some of the poorest sectors of our global community represent a market failure, and they therefore don't attract the type of resources that can be and are mobilized when the problem does affect other parts of the world."2 -
Pfizer number #2 yesterday, a little over 24 hours past.
Slight stinging in the arm for a few minutes after the shot, nothing later . . . unless that was the reason I felt slightly tired, but at my age (65) that's just a thing that happens, especially when I get up a little earlier as I did to make it to the vax appointment, so who knows? So far today, arm is super-mildly sensitive if I press on it, might be a teensy bit swollen, but totally nothing worth any fuss, so far. (The flu vax in the Fall gave me a sore arm I could feel without pressing on it.)
I wondered how I'd feel post-vax about yesterday's workout plan. I did keep it moderate to give my immune system any energy bandwidth it wanted, but machine-rowed the normal number of meters, just a couple of minutes slower. It was fine.
I felt tired after my second Pfizer shot too, and so did my husband when he got it. I even took a nap 24 hours after the shot, something that I never do, and I am 12 years your senior. We both had light body aches but no fevers or chills, and with the second dose the arm was not as tender as with the first one. Not bad side effects for a much needed protection. Hope that you do well today and tomorrow.
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