Weight loss experiment with possibly unrealistic expectations lol

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  • snowflake954
    snowflake954 Posts: 8,399 Member
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    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    Dan__Cote wrote: »
    Update: 3/3/2023

    I'm down another .8lbs since i posted this. Weight loss has slowed a little bit. Largely, because I haven't made my steps in a while. I'll be increasing my steps to at least 10K a day and keep my diet the same. Thank you bubble poppers. I'm strange and enjoy using my body for research and experimentation. Hunger is not a big deal. It has turned into background noise...like my tinnitus lol. I'm not worried about binge eating. It doesn't happen.

    And come on guys! 1600 calories a day isn't THAT bad. I mean, it sucks, but it's not horrible. I will keep everyone posted as time goes on. Does anyone want to see what my diet consists of?

    I took a look at what your diet consists of. Mostly protein shakes. I couldn't do it. Crazy. I cook for 4 men--3 your age, all in great physical condition. They eat pasta, bread, cheese, risotto, vegetables. salads, fish, meats, ...... plus deserts. I am sorry for you.

    It's one of the more highly-processed-foods-centric ways of eating that I've ever seen here.

    That's not particularly a criticism, because I'm a strong believer that it's nutrition that counts, not dietary style. I'm sure that the makers of those supplements make it a point to include all the essential nutrients currently known to science.

    It's just an observation.

    I admit it's quite different from what I'd personally choose to eat, but I'm sure what I eat is quirky in its own way, too.

    Well Ann, you've been around here as long as me (10 years) and we're the same age. You've seen that when people come off the "shake diet", they gain it back big time. And I think that's the idea--keep 'em coming back for the shakes to lose again. I just wanted to point that out. Will the OP lose with his experiment? I think so. Is it the best way to pass the time? No. There are better ways to get where he wants to go.
  • Dan__Cote
    Dan__Cote Posts: 42 Member
    edited March 2023
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    ouch... that cut me deep :D The reason hunger isn't an issue is, like I stated way earlier, ghrelin is a hormone response. A response that I have greatly dampened over the past 1-2 weeks. My will power prevailed. True, my diet is not sustainable. That was never in question. I enjoy the breakfast that I have every day. When I come off this diet I will continue to drink it. I'll just add 1/2cup of oatmeal with some Stevia and maybe a tbs of peanut butter to my muscle milk shake. My Huel lunch is awesome. It's primarilly pea protein and oats (Check it out and tell them I referred you ;) ). For dinner, I may add some more vegetables to my wraps. But my night-time snack, will stay the same. I love chocolate and peanut butter. It satiates without the guilt. I won't need to be as hessitant with my selection of cheat meals either. They will still be limited to one meal a week. Usually it's half a cheese pizza. I may replace that cheat meal with something with less/no cheese on it though. Soft cheese and good cholesterol don't mix. So long as I log my diet and track on my bf% every week, I can adjust calories one way or the other.
  • Dan__Cote
    Dan__Cote Posts: 42 Member
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    Been a member since 2017. I recently found out about this community. Otherwise, I would have been sharing my experiments and theories earlier. I'll send you a friend request @ninerbuff. You can keep me honest. I would honestly appreciate it. Maybe you're right. Maybe I'll get fat again. But my days of bulking and cutting are over... almost. I just want good blood panels, energy, and longevity now. The heavy pounding of weights on my joints has taken it's toll. I'll be focusing on maintaining a good cardiovascular system and muscular endurance.
  • kshama2001
    kshama2001 Posts: 28,034 Member
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    Dan__Cote wrote: »
    Chickenkillerpuppy - before my 1600 calorie diet, and before my gradual weight loss since December 8th, I maintained at 2200-2300 calories a day. I keep a food journal when I'm trying something new (bulking or cutting). My eating habits are almost habitually predictable and constant.

    Tomcustombuilder -Dude, don't play coy. There is so much misinformation out there. It's the same stuff that has been around for decades. Largely based around the, "health and fitness," industry to drum up business. Then their gullible customers go out and preach. The placebo effect is a real thing.

    Kshama2001 - What the heck is Phen? Never heard of that.

    For fun, I would like everyone reading this to check out scholar.google. Life changing. There is a plethora of research on there that is free to read. I'll trust controlled scholary research over nearly anyone else. I may even look up what Phen is on there.

    Phen/Fen = Phentermine & Fenfluramine

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fenfluramine/phentermine
  • Dan__Cote
    Dan__Cote Posts: 42 Member
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    @kshama2001 Oh my God! Did you have any complications with it? The effects sound amazing, but the side effects sound terrible.
  • Dan__Cote
    Dan__Cote Posts: 42 Member
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    https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/article-abstract/604539
    Even the study done back in 1984 is worrysome. Look at how many people dropped from the study before it was complete, " for reasons related to drug treatment."
  • AnnPT77
    AnnPT77 Posts: 33,066 Member
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    Dan__Cote wrote: »
    ouch... that cut me deep :D The reason hunger isn't an issue is, like I stated way earlier, ghrelin is a hormone response. A response that I have greatly dampened over the past 1-2 weeks. My will power prevailed. True, my diet is not sustainable. That was never in question. I enjoy the breakfast that I have every day. When I come off this diet I will continue to drink it. I'll just add 1/2cup of oatmeal with some Stevia and maybe a tbs of peanut butter to my muscle milk shake. My Huel lunch is awesome. It's primarilly pea protein and oats (Check it out and tell them I referred you ;) ). For dinner, I may add some more vegetables to my wraps. But my night-time snack, will stay the same. I love chocolate and peanut butter. It satiates without the guilt. I won't need to be as hessitant with my selection of cheat meals either. They will still be limited to one meal a week. Usually it's half a cheese pizza. I may replace that cheat meal with something with less/no cheese on it though. Soft cheese and good cholesterol don't mix. So long as I log my diet and track on my bf% every week, I can adjust calories one way or the other.

    Well, maybe . . . familial hypercholesterolemia, the genetics - that matters.

    But eating cheese in reasonable portions is compatible with maintaining good cholesterol levels, IME. (In my world that includes eating the occasional half or even whole (non-individual) pizza, as person much smaller than you. I eat cheese daily, usually multiple portions of it.

    Overall dietary context really matters. Since weight loss (7+ years ago), my cholesterol and triglycerides - which used to be very high - have been solidly normal. Total cholesterol now runs high-normal (187 at last test in July), but that's because HDL is so high (72.7). In July, tris were at 101, LDL 94.1. My doctors are happy now, but I used to be under threat of statins. My total cholesterol was around 230, borderline HDL (high 30s/low 40s), high LDL (140s), stupid-high triglycerides (over 400 at one point).

    You may not take this next well, but it's meant in perfect sincerity, wanting to help you. (I know I've made skeptical or critical comments elsewhere in the thread, but I don't carry grudges. They're heavy.)

    From my reading, which is amateur not expert, things that help manage cholesterol via diet include eating high levels of fruits and veggies, and getting a well-rounded mix of fiber types.

    Getting the essential vitamins and minerals from supplements is not equivalent to getting them from fruits, veggies and whole grains. There's ample evidence that the beneficial phytochemicals matter (well-known things beyond vitamins and minerals) in themselves, and there's some evidence that a diverse gut microbiome is helpful (and that that comes from getting the right PREbiotics, the things our gut microbes like to eat while they're doing good things for our health).

    I'm not vegan, and definitely don't argue that totally plant-based is the best way to eat. In fact, I think omnivory is the easiest course to good nutritional balance, even though I'm personally vegetarian. Nonetheless, it's a very mainstream idea that getting at least 5 and ideally more like 10 veggie/fruit servings daily is a great health strategy. Diverse fiber sources - like those in varied, colorful veggies, fruits, and whole grains - promote gut microbiome diversity. (Most fiber supplements are limited in fiber type, and by "type" I'm meaning things beyond soluble vs. insoluble.)

    I'm aware that your "daily greens" supplement contains a laundry list of plant powders, but that's IMO more marketing strategy than anything else. 15g of that powder has pretty trivial amounts of any one of them. I'm also pretty confident that there are beneficial nutrients/phytochemicals not yet identified by science, maybe even some essential nutrients. There have been lots of discoveries in that realm over my lifetime. I'd bet humans aren't done with those discoveries, especially with respect to gut microbiome effects, since that research is still quite young. Once beneficial or essential nutrients are identified, they're added to supplements . . . but they were in food all along.
  • Dan__Cote
    Dan__Cote Posts: 42 Member
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    @AnnPT77 You're awesome. I appreciate your posts. You gave me something new to research. I was only tracking on soluble and insoluble fiber. Now, thanks to you, I need to research and understand the different types and what specific roles they play.

    This is my first time using Daily Greens. I can not say if they are effective or not yet. Huel is awesome and I trust that they did their research on Daily Greens (unless I can disprove it). I understood that different color veggies and fruits have different health benefits ie. green- skin elasticity, white- anti cancer, red- blood sugar, etc. But, I never thought about fiber. I just aim to get around 40g a day of whatever form.

    I need to call the VA and see if I can get another fasting blood panel done. I'm curious to see if my HDL/LDL/ TRI have positively changed. My cardiologist recommended that I cut back on cheese. Especially soft cheese. That's why I'm cautious.

    Again, you're awesome. When this crash diet is over I will add more diverse veggies back into my diet, and will propably end up adding a scoop of Daily Greens to my morning smoothie of strawberries, black berries and blueberries. I'll have to revisit my calorie and macro profile to see what I can do.
  • AnnPT77
    AnnPT77 Posts: 33,066 Member
    edited March 2023
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    Dan__Cote wrote: »
    @AnnPT77 You're awesome. I appreciate your posts. You gave me something new to research. I was only tracking on soluble and insoluble fiber. Now, thanks to you, I need to research and understand the different types and what specific roles they play.
    You won't find much, I predict, and some of it will be gee-whiz alt-health speculation. The microbiome research is so preliminary that it's almost just at the level of "good gut microbes thrive on fiber, so eat lots of veggies, fruits, and grains".

    Some examples of microbiota accessible carbohydrates (MACS, one relevant technical term for the types of (loosely) fiber that gut microbes like to eat) are beta-glucans, pectins, resistant starch, mucilage, fructooligosaccharides (FOS) and inulin. Sound research about which ones are important for what is pretty young.
    This is my first time using Daily Greens. I can not say if they are effective or not yet. Huel is awesome and I trust that they did their research on Daily Greens (unless I can disprove it). I understood that different color veggies and fruits have different health benefits ie. green- skin elasticity, white- anti cancer, red- blood sugar, etc. But, I never thought about fiber. I just aim to get around 40g a day of whatever form.
    I would say that's a bit of an oversimplified view - associating colors with specific benefits. Yeah, loosely, but a cartoon. It's complicated.

    Getting your fruits and veggies (vs. a supplement like Daily Greens) is not something I expect you to feel in any short-run sense: It's not benefits (or problems) you're going to perceive, unless you eat Really Badly. It's about creating the best odds of long term good health.

    Since you want to reduce your cardiovascular risk, the anti-inflammatory aspects may be particularly meaningful . . . but there are a lot of issues even just with cardiovascular health. You won't ever use self-observation to answer questions like "would my blood lipids have improved faster if I ate more plants?" or "would my HDL have gotten higher if I'd eaten more whole grains, nuts and beans?" At the population level, though, reasonable research suggests that those foods can do those things.

    As far as Daily Greens, I'm sure they did their research . . . but that only extends as far as explicitly known factors. There are some decent hints that there are benefits we haven't completely pinned down yet via science. (Science is an ongoing process!) Like I said, companies put known nutrients in supplements once they're known, but they're in food already and always have been. We co-evolved via natural selection with whole foods; supplements are a simplification of what's scientifically pinned down at this point (at best).

    And all of that's assuming their research focuses on optimizing your health as the key goal, vs. including a lot of marketing spin. (Call me cynical. Also, I read the info on their web site. There's a lot of spin.) It's harder to judge the actual science beyond the usual "whoo, they have footnotes!". I'm sure all those ingredients are all good things in one way or another. The question is more whether there are important good things missing, or whether there's enough of the good things in there for best outcomes, a much harder question.

    Give this a thought, just common sense: Daily Greens contains - according to their web site - 91 different plant powders and extracts. On the one hand, wowwiiee, so many plants! On the other hand, it's milligrams and micrograms of each thing, in the 15g of the stuff that you take daily. How does that stack up against a pound or two of fruits and veggies? Lots of breadth, not much depth, trivial contribution to fiber, hydration, and other benefits the fruit/veggies also bring. (Satiation is one, for many of us.)
    I need to call the VA and see if I can get another fasting blood panel done. I'm curious to see if my HDL/LDL/ TRI have positively changed. My cardiologist recommended that I cut back on cheese. Especially soft cheese. That's why I'm cautious.

    Again, you're awesome. When this crash diet is over I will add more diverse veggies back into my diet, and will probably end up adding a scoop of Daily Greens to my morning smoothie of strawberries, black berries and blueberries. I'll have to revisit my calorie and macro profile to see what I can do.

    You're not going to kill yourself (IMO) if your diet in the short run is nearly all supplements on the micronutrient side. Personally, I think it's a poor investment in long term good health, which is about routine eating patterns over time, but that's just my opinion.

    Many Americans (and I assume others) get pathetic amounts of veggies/fruits, figure they've solved everything with a multivitamin, and they don't all keel over instantly or anything. Some of them even have long and reasonably healthy lives. Essentially, we're all making bets about what gives us the best odds of long term good health. I'd answer this way: The probability is that it's long term patterns of good nutrition from foods, varied ones, things humans have eaten for centuries and thrived.

    It's an issue of hedging bets, though, y'know?
  • MelodyandBarbells
    MelodyandBarbells Posts: 7,725 Member
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    Dan__Cote wrote: »
    @AnnPT77 You're awesome. I appreciate your posts. You gave me something new to research. I was only tracking on soluble and insoluble fiber. Now, thanks to you, I need to research and understand the different types and what specific roles they play.

    This is my first time using Daily Greens. I can not say if they are effective or not yet. Huel is awesome and I trust that they did their research on Daily Greens (unless I can disprove it). I understood that different color veggies and fruits have different health benefits ie. green- skin elasticity, white- anti cancer, red- blood sugar, etc. But, I never thought about fiber. I just aim to get around 40g a day of whatever form.

    I need to call the VA and see if I can get another fasting blood panel done. I'm curious to see if my HDL/LDL/ TRI have positively changed. My cardiologist recommended that I cut back on cheese. Especially soft cheese. That's why I'm cautious.

    Again, you're awesome. When this crash diet is over I will add more diverse veggies back into my diet, and will propably end up adding a scoop of Daily Greens to my morning smoothie of strawberries, black berries and blueberries. I'll have to revisit my calorie and macro profile to see what I can do.

    I hope you share if you do get another blood panel done! I think you mentioned increasing exercise, so curious for sure if that moved the HDL needle.

    I understand that you’re looking to improve your health but also can’t resist the aesthetics of dropping lbs fast especially since you seem to be able to do it.
  • Dan__Cote
    Dan__Cote Posts: 42 Member
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    @MelodyandBarbells
    For sure. I will share my before and after panels. It's been a battle since 2019 for me. Back then, when I first found out about my high cholesterol, I ate a bunch of Cheerios and Fiber One cereal everyday and in 2 months my total cholesterol dropped 20 points. I wasn't exercising at that time either. I had recently gotten out of the Army at the time and was falling into the roll as the Fat Vet. It was a dark time. I was depressed, unsure of my future, and making very bad health decisions when I got out. I'm talking about eating pizza every day and going through a bottle of Captain Morgan every day while playing Fallout 64 with new found friends around the nation. I went from 206lbs to 226 lbs in 3 months. All Fat. I was so mad at myself for letting myself get to that point. I started getting back into the gym, changed up my diet, stopped drinking, and just fell back into my old Army habbits. Minus all the
    cardio. I dropped down to 195lbs following the Bowflex diet (which was murder) and have been experimenting with different strategies for bulking and cutting since then. I know it sounds weird, but changing up my diet and exercise plans keeps me motivated and prevents me from becoming stagnant. I've seen what happens to me when I just give up and it's unacceptable.

    I've followed a vegan diet for 4 months. Vegitarian for a while. Carnivore. Paleo. Whole foods. Chicken and rice. Cabbage and kidney beans. Atkins. Chicken and broccoli (great weight loss results. Terrible energy). Pizza, steak, chicken, and beer (that one was fun). Beef jerky and coffee (the weight just fell off). So many. All in the name of science....and because I was bored and wanted to try theories out for myself. After this last experiment is over I will be focusing on balance and gradual calorie increases until I reach maintenance. I have enough tools in my tool bag to draw from now if I happen to fall off the wagon again.
  • kshama2001
    kshama2001 Posts: 28,034 Member
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    Dan__Cote wrote: »
    @AnnPT77 You're awesome. I appreciate your posts. You gave me something new to research. I was only tracking on soluble and insoluble fiber. Now, thanks to you, I need to research and understand the different types and what specific roles they play.

    This is my first time using Daily Greens. I can not say if they are effective or not yet. Huel is awesome and I trust that they did their research on Daily Greens (unless I can disprove it). I understood that different color veggies and fruits have different health benefits ie. green- skin elasticity, white- anti cancer, red- blood sugar, etc. But, I never thought about fiber. I just aim to get around 40g a day of whatever form.

    I need to call the VA and see if I can get another fasting blood panel done. I'm curious to see if my HDL/LDL/ TRI have positively changed. My cardiologist recommended that I cut back on cheese. Especially soft cheese. That's why I'm cautious.

    Again, you're awesome. When this crash diet is over I will add more diverse veggies back into my diet, and will propably end up adding a scoop of Daily Greens to my morning smoothie of strawberries, black berries and blueberries. I'll have to revisit my calorie and macro profile to see what I can do.

    Based on how you've been on this thread, I have no doubt that you can persistently and successfully advocate for yourself with the VA. :smiley:

    For other veterans who may be reading and having trouble with the VA, I realize how frustrating it can be and want to say to never give up.
    • Sometimes I have to approach the same issue repeatedly and slightly differently in order to get what I want.
    • It took me three primary care providers before I was able to get a community care referral approved.
    • I have also used the services of the Patient Advocate.

    Speaking of services, many appear to be secret. (I'm exaggerating; my point is the VA doesn't do a great job letting people know what is available.) I get the best tips from a women's vet2vet group.

    My primary care providers with the VA have always been great for writing reasonable accommodation letters for me, which have been very valuable to me over the years.
  • PAV8888
    PAV8888 Posts: 14,005 Member
    edited March 2023
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    I sometimes say that anything and everything can work if you try to make choices you think you can keep up to long term and are willing to adapt when things no longer work!

    You sure do get all the points available on the "willing to adapt" side of the equation!
  • MelodyandBarbells
    MelodyandBarbells Posts: 7,725 Member
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    Dan__Cote wrote: »
    @MelodyandBarbells
    For sure. I will share my before and after panels. It's been a battle since 2019 for me. Back then, when I first found out about my high cholesterol, I ate a bunch of Cheerios and Fiber One cereal everyday and in 2 months my total cholesterol dropped 20 points. I wasn't exercising at that time either. I had recently gotten out of the Army at the time and was falling into the roll as the Fat Vet. It was a dark time. I was depressed, unsure of my future, and making very bad health decisions when I got out. I'm talking about eating pizza every day and going through a bottle of Captain Morgan every day while playing Fallout 64 with new found friends around the nation. I went from 206lbs to 226 lbs in 3 months. All Fat. I was so mad at myself for letting myself get to that point. I started getting back into the gym, changed up my diet, stopped drinking, and just fell back into my old Army habbits. Minus all the
    cardio. I dropped down to 195lbs following the Bowflex diet (which was murder) and have been experimenting with different strategies for bulking and cutting since then. I know it sounds weird, but changing up my diet and exercise plans keeps me motivated and prevents me from becoming stagnant. I've seen what happens to me when I just give up and it's unacceptable.

    I've followed a vegan diet for 4 months. Vegitarian for a while. Carnivore. Paleo. Whole foods. Chicken and rice. Cabbage and kidney beans. Atkins. Chicken and broccoli (great weight loss results. Terrible energy). Pizza, steak, chicken, and beer (that one was fun). Beef jerky and coffee (the weight just fell off). So many. All in the name of science....and because I was bored and wanted to try theories out for myself. After this last experiment is over I will be focusing on balance and gradual calorie increases until I reach maintenance. I have enough tools in my tool bag to draw from now if I happen to fall off the wagon again.
    I feel like you could use a training plan or something to give you structure but mainly to help you channel your energy and motivation. Like some sort of career in this space, just not sure what haha. Then you could experiment to your hearts content, but it would be legit and hopefully much safer and still fun
  • Dan__Cote
    Dan__Cote Posts: 42 Member
    edited March 2023
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    :D Yeah for sure. I've almost always been very fit/muscular/lean. I'd share what I looked like back in my early 20's to early 30's, but I might get banned because I was only in my undies for most of the pics (ladies love the undies :D ). As I've stated before, this is my last real experiment. I have 2 kids that are interested in weight training. They'll help me keep my motivation up. Living vicariously through them will keep my spark alive. Gotta show the young bucks what this old bull is still capable of.
  • merekins
    merekins Posts: 228 Member
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    Have you ever watched Alone?

    It's absolutely possible to drop that much but that's called starving. People often think that term means being really hungry. It is dangerous and will make you sick. Sicker than "I'll just eat have a burger and then make sure to eat at maintenance and I'll be fine." Sick like serious damage to organs sick. There is no way to maintain the deficit for that long and still feel like you do now. Almost everyone loses extra weight at beginning of diet. This is normal and it slows down. You don't have enough weight to keep that pace going without hurting yourself. Enjoy your "starter" weight loss but go set a reasonable goal.