Help for maintaining weight and gaining lean muscle?

domcarrigan

Hi,

Your goals and approach, except for one big exception, sound EXACTLY like mine just now.

I'm going to be controversial, based on my 26 years of being in the gym and changing goals numerous times and I totally, disagree with what people are saying about exercise (However I acknowledge that this is just my own personal experience and opinion). The reason I saw fit to comment is that your goals and eating habits are the same as mine, right down to the protein and Centrum supplements and paleo diet.

I'm 5'11" and I've dropped from being an 84kg fat boy (thin frame so don't carry fat well) to being 76kg (and dropping) in three months. Now I can see five muscles on my abs but can't quite get the sixth - doh! I've got from a 36" waist to a 32" and all my friends tell me I look much better.

What did I change (aside from eating habits)? My gym workout was totally wrong for toning and lean muscle. Like you I was doing bench exercises, various reps blah blah and sure, I got stronger but it didn't really tone me or drop my waistline.

So.. I abandoned the weights completely and switched to running (indoors and outdoors). It should be noted here that I was the kid at school who was soo bad at running that the fat kids who stopped for cigarettes would beat me. I did NOT like running.

My goodness it works. I had to build up slowly because I had no endurance and if, at the beginning, someone had said to me then that I could run 10k every other day I would've laughed my @ss of at them but now I can do it and in three months I've dropped 8kg, I can count abs without flexing and I look faaar more muscular than when I was doing weights but my recovery time is far faster and I don't have to be religious about the workout regimen. Plus I sleep better and people tell me (without any prompting) that my shape looks better.

But for me, the icing on the cake insofar as seeing that it's working is that I used to look at the guys in the health club, pumping weights, thinking wow, they look toned. Now I just think they look fat.

The only downside, for me, is that I have soo much energy that I feel wired most of the time. Just sitting here now, I'm in the mood to go and run for an hour or two, yet I used to be the lard @*kitten* king of video games! If I can do this at 40, it would be gravy for you should you decide to give it a go.

Just my two pence worth

I know this goes against what some of the other good folks suggest. As mentioned, this is merely based on my own personal experience.

Wow thanks for the info, glad to hear I'm not alone in this dilemma.

Firstly, I have already started running earlier this year. About two months ago I finally got professionally fitted for running shoes (I used to get injuries because of the way I run, which would put me off). This year I've done three 10km (and one 14km) fun runs for charity, and have run about 400km total. I love running and its what started getting me into this healthy lifestyle, and what has made me want more. While I love running, I think being fit and being able to run are two completely different things. I discovered that when I started Insanity this week. Just because I can run 10km without stopping doesn't mean I can do a circuit of jumping jacks, push ups, sprints, etc.

I agree with your idea of the gym junkies looking 'fat', so some extent. Like, I get what you mean when you say that. I do NOT want the massive pecs that protrude an inch off my chest so that it looks like I have tits. I'd rather NOT have arms so large I can't even scratch my own back. Some of those gym monsters are disgusting, and I don't want to be there. I'd much rather be lean, fit and healthy. In the same breath.. I do NOT want to look like a long distance marathon runner either. Some of those guys, it looks like a gentle breeze would knock them over. Most have loose skin hanging everywhere and need strapping tape to hold them together!! There is definitely a balance.

wibblefps

LOL - "Gym Monsters", love it. I'm going to use that.

Excellent point about running and fitness. Distance running is about aerobic exercise whereas the circuit training will take you into anearobic respiration which burns more calories but can't be sustained as long and demands a longer recovery if you push really hard.

I stay away from circuit stuff because it just puts me off exercise but that's just a case of different things work for different people

Having said all that you can do anearobic respiration with running simply by inserting sprints into your run or, my personal favourite, getting on a treadmill, setting the gradient to 15% and holding 8km/s for as long as you can, then drop to 4% till you feel recovered and repeat. THAT will get your strength and endurance up. You will also see your 10k times drop dramtically. I never set a treadmill to less than 4% otherwise I'm doing nothing and it's doing all the work.

domcarrigan

I stay away from circuit stuff because it just puts me off exercise but that's just a case of different things work for different people

Having said all that you can do anearobic respiration with running simply by inserting sprints into your run or, my personal favourite, getting on a treadmill, setting the gradient to 15% and holding 8km/s for as long as you can, then drop to 4% till you feel recovered and repeat. THAT will get your strength and endurance up. You will also see your 10k times drop dramtically. I never set a treadmill to less than 4% otherwise I'm doing nothing and it's doing all the work.

Yeah, you've got to do what works for you, and what you enjoy.

Definitely going to try some of these things. I much prefer outdoor running to treadmills, but I'll have to incorporate some sprints in I think. Thanks!

domcarrigan

If you are around 23% BF I would suggest that you keep cutting until you reach the BF% you want then start building some lean muscle. I did the same thing a couple of years ago. Got tired of cutting. Convinced myself that at around 20% BF if I built muscle I would be okay with a little fat around my belly. I was wrong!!! To build muscle you MUST be in a calorie surplus, and you are going to gain a little fat as well. So if you start bulking with a little extra fat you are going to wind up with more fat on top of the fat you already have. Focus on one thing at a time. Fat loss, then building muscle. Body recomp can be done, but it is painfully slow and everything must be just right all the time. Just my opinion, but I wish I would have done it right the first time around. Good Luck!

Something else that I should have added is, try as hard as you can to hang onto as much muscle as you possibly can while cutting or you're just spinning your wheels. Your goal while cutting should be at the end of your cut to be lifting the same poundage or a little more at the end of your cut. In other words you must give your body a reason to hang onto the muscle you have while you are cutting.

So in short;

1. Keep up my regular routine
2. Eat at a deficit to lose weight while maintaining strength
3. Get to 16-17 BF%
4. Start eating at a surplus and increase strength training focus

Is that your advice? Makes sense to me.

jld0411

I recently started looking into the paleo diet, and I think it's a bit of a mixed bag. I work with a personal trainer and asked him about it, too. Paleo is good in the sense that it sort of forces you to incorporate a lot of vegetables, which is an area many people struggle with. On the other hand, in the words of my trainer, "Your workouts will suck because you're not getting enough carbs." Paleo seems to be a bit of a fad diet, not all that unlike the South Beach, Adkins and others. I prepare a TON of paleo recipes, but I'm picky about which ones I use. To me, paleo does NOT automatically mean healthy. I usually end up adding some steel cut oats or brown rice just to be sure I'm getting enough carbs. I found that my trainer was right. When I was doing strict paleo (which wasn't for long, mind you) I didn't quite have the energy for the workouts I did in the past. Since I've re-incorporated some GOOD carbs, my workouts are better. I can lift heavier weights and have better stamina.

The reason I say all of this is that you've definitely got the right idea with your workout plan. To build muscle, you have to pick heavy things up and put them back down. :laugh: I kind of wonder what would happen with your workouts if you incorporated some good carbs - maybe you'd surprise yourself and have even more stamina and could lift more! More lifting = more muscle development. Carbs have gotten quite a bad rap - and unfairly so - because your muscles need the good carbs. Based on my research I really don't think you can get enough carbs to fuel your muscles without incorporating some whole grains.

jeffpettis

If you are around 23% BF I would suggest that you keep cutting until you reach the BF% you want then start building some lean muscle. I did the same thing a couple of years ago. Got tired of cutting. Convinced myself that at around 20% BF if I built muscle I would be okay with a little fat around my belly. I was wrong!!! To build muscle you MUST be in a calorie surplus, and you are going to gain a little fat as well. So if you start bulking with a little extra fat you are going to wind up with more fat on top of the fat you already have. Focus on one thing at a time. Fat loss, then building muscle. Body recomp can be done, but it is painfully slow and everything must be just right all the time. Just my opinion, but I wish I would have done it right the first time around. Good Luck!

Something else that I should have added is, try as hard as you can to hang onto as much muscle as you possibly can while cutting or you're just spinning your wheels. Your goal while cutting should be at the end of your cut to be lifting the same poundage or a little more at the end of your cut. In other words you must give your body a reason to hang onto the muscle you have while you are cutting.

So in short;

1. Keep up my regular routine
2. Eat at a deficit to lose weight while maintaining strength
3. Get to 16-17 BF%
4. Start eating at a surplus and increase strength training focus

Is that your advice? Makes sense to me.

That's the jest of it. Although you may want to go a little lower in BF% before bulking, your call on that one. Just don't start bulking to soon because you are going to gain some fat but the goal is to gain minimal fat. So if your on the borderline when you start to bulk you will end up with more fat in the end. Hope that helps.

domcarrigan

I recently started looking into the paleo diet, and I think it's a bit of a mixed bag. I work with a personal trainer and asked him about it, too. Paleo is good in the sense that it sort of forces you to incorporate a lot of vegetables, which is an area many people struggle with. On the other hand, in the words of my trainer, "Your workouts will suck because you're not getting enough carbs." Paleo seems to be a bit of a fad diet, not all that unlike the South Beach, Adkins and others. I prepare a TON of paleo recipes, but I'm picky about which ones I use. To me, paleo does NOT automatically mean healthy. I usually end up adding some steel cut oats or brown rice just to be sure I'm getting enough carbs. I found that my trainer was right. When I was doing strict paleo (which wasn't for long, mind you) I didn't quite have the energy for the workouts I did in the past. Since I've re-incorporated some GOOD carbs, my workouts are better. I can lift heavier weights and have better stamina.

The reason I say all of this is that you've definitely got the right idea with your workout plan. To build muscle, you have to pick heavy things up and put them back down. :laugh: I kind of wonder what would happen with your workouts if you incorporated some good carbs - maybe you'd surprise yourself and have even more stamina and could lift more! More lifting = more muscle development. Carbs have gotten quite a bad rap - and unfairly so - because your muscles need the good carbs. Based on my research I really don't think you can get enough carbs to fuel your muscles without incorporating some whole grains.

I have considered this pretty carefully. As I said in my original post, I'm not 100% strict. For example yesterday I was low on carbs, so I had some couscous for lunch and two beers at a gig - definitely not strictly paleo. I'm a firm believer that if you try and add to much restriction to your diet, it'll control you. Learning restraint and control is very important.

So thanks for the advice - I will definitely considering eating a few more good carbs on my workout days. I usually manage to meet my macros with just fruit and veg though.

domcarrigan

That's the jest of it. Although you may want to go a little lower in BF% before bulking, your call on that one. Just don't start bulking to soon because you are going to gain some fat but the goal is to gain minimal fat. So if your on the borderline when you start to bulk you will end up with more fat in the end. Hope that helps.

Cheers, you've been of great help.

rassha01

I am in the same boat. 6' but a little heavier at 195# I dropped 50# and went from 27-19% bodyfat from cardio and have now switched to body recomposition, eating at maintenance and lifting heavy with lots of running yet. I found an awesome website/app that has all the exercises you need with preplanned routines or you can make your own. Syncs right with my android phone so it is easy to keep track of my workouts. Not sure if it is available across the pond but the website is www.jefit.com and the app is called jefit. Goodluck!!

pawnstarNate

Look into the Stronglifts 5x5 program. I maintained my same inches around my waist when I started late spring/early summer and added lean mass and a few pounds. I had to eat more to feed my muscles but, I think it was worth it. They even have a free app to keep up with the workouts and it's a very simple program.