Cut, Recomp or Bulk?

nossmf

More reps in the same amount of time is one way to increase intensity...but have you tried making a single pushup last 20 seconds (10s down, 10s up)? Whole new world of sensations...

mylittlechocobo

@nossmf YES!! Oh man is that one rough. Still having trouble getting down all the way, if I go past à certain point I find I can't push back up. Curious, would it be better to do sets practicing just dropping down slow then push up slow from off the ground or do sets of slow up and down to whatever range of motion I can manage?

Also, great thread, gave it à read and lots of great info. Reassuring to see I've already been implementing many of the techniques.

Leo_King84

@mylittlechocobo Final Fantasy fan?

If you want to see more ab definition you have to strip away more fat. Personally, I think you look really healthy already.

Body weight exercises are great as you tend to incorporate more muscles for balance and stability.

If you want to gain muscle mass you need to go for fatigue. It doesn't matter if you do more reps, go slower, take less rest between sets as long as you're fatiguing your muscles.

If you're not wanting to put on muscle mass but want to challenge yourself then go for strength training. Very minimal reps but quicker fatigue. Problem is it can be difficult to add more overload to bodyweight exercises so you'll go for more reps and end up building more muscle mass.

nossmf

@mylittlechocobo, short answer to any question about range of motion is to let safety be the guide. If going further will cause injury, stop short of that point. Doesn't matter if you're lifting weights, do bodyweight movements, stretching, or anything else.

Now, if it's not painful but simply physically difficult, working with bodyweight rather than actual weights has an advantage in allowing you to slowly over time expand your range of motion without incurring risk of injury that an external weight can cause. Just work to expand your range slowly over weeks and months.

How do you do this? A safe method may be to try to expand using an easier mechanical advantage version of the movement. As in, instead of doing a pushup, try an incline pushup, where your hands are resting on a bench, a block, a chair, something to be raised so your body is at an angle rather than horizontal. Because it's easier on the body, you may be able to lower yourself further than you would with the traditional version. If you focus a little time each day on that lowest portion of the rep, perhaps doing miniature pushes of only a few inches up and down, always staying at that lowest point, you can build up the portion of the muscles which dominate that portion of the overall movement, so when you return to "normal" pushups that increased strength may allow you to go just a bit further.

Another method would be to stay in the traditional pushup position, lower down to the point where you can't pushup, and simply remain there, still trying to push even if you aren't actually moving anywhere. Give it a few seconds, then relax all the way to the ground. What you're essentially doing is a bodyweight version of a static hold. Work your way up in duration over time, and you may surprise yourself one day by actually moving.

*****

I do want to object to one portion of @Leo_King84 statement at the bottom, where he said if you go for more reps you'll end up building more muscle mass. Building mass is about your diet, not the style of training. It's a common perception in the bodybuilding world that in order to gain strength you do low reps (1-5) and to gain size you do moderate reps (8-12), with the implication that more reps equals more size. If that were the case, then people doing 25+ reps with light weights would really swell up, while people lifting nothing but one-rep-max weights would be small, right? Nope. Growth does not occur without the necessary calories to fuel such growth. Same applies to bodyweight exercises.

Leo_King84

nossmf wrote: »

I do want to object to one portion of @Leo_King84 statement at the bottom, where he said if you go for more reps you'll end up building more muscle mass. Building mass is about your diet, not the style of training. It's a common perception in the bodybuilding world that in order to gain strength you do low reps (1-5) and to gain size you do moderate reps (8-12), with the implication that more reps equals more size. If that were the case, then people doing 25+ reps with light weights would really swell up, while people lifting nothing but one-rep-max weights would be small, right? Nope. Growth does not occur without the necessary calories to fuel such growth. Same applies to bodyweight exercises.

You can lose fat and gain muscle at the same time. Granted its easier the newer you are to lifting, the more protein you consume and more strategic timing of meals. You won't gain as much as being in a surplus but you can do it.

I agree that more reps does not equal more muscle mass to a point. You dont need to go much higher than 10-12 reps to fatigue your muscles enough to encourage growth.

Low reps, heavy weight will cause strength adaptations. Your nervous system gets more efficient at activating muscle fibers so you will get stronger without gaining much muscle. Look at Anatoly "The cleaner" on you YouTube. He looks small compared to most of the guys he goes up to yet he makes their massive weights look easy. Or google up the 60-70kg powerlifting classes. They'll look small compared to bodybuilders but will easily outlift them.

mylittlechocobo

@Leo_King84 Yes Final Fantasy fan! Congrats being the first person to notice/mention that haha.

I'm not concerned either way honestly, if I put on muscle mass great, if I improve strength great. I mostly go the higher rep route because I don't have exercises that fatigué at lower reps. Also, Anatoly is great.

mylittlechocobo

@nossmf So same progressions you would use to get your standard pushup just do them slow...not sure why I wasn't thinking of that heh.

Retroguy2000

nossmf wrote: »

It's a common perception in the bodybuilding world that in order to gain strength you do low reps (1-5) and to gain size you do moderate reps (8-12)

Because it's true.

with the implication that more reps equals more size. If that were the case, then people doing 25+ reps with light weights would really swell up

The research shows that going close to failure yields the same muscle growth in any rep range 5-30.

The problem with low rep ranges for muscle gain is it's harder to get the same total volume as a higher rep range, due to fatigue, and you get less time under tension. Being closer to 1RM is better for strength gains though. If you do 4 sets of 150 pounds on bench for 12 reps and that's close to failure, that's 6,000 pounds of volume. The same person doing sets of 5 reps might get 190 pounds. 4 sets of that is 3,800 pounds, and more importantly as mentioned before, it's less time under tension.

The problem with high rep ranges (25+) is it's harder to judge where 1-2 reps from failure is. Therefore 8-15 is a good sweet spot where it's easier to know where failure is, and without cardio being a limiting factor. It's probably also easier to fit more sets into an hour or whatever your session length is.