Base Goal

qzff9nknfp

Hello all. My base goal is 2500 calories. I’ve been eating between 1800 - 2000. Is that too low? I am down 12 pounds but it’s going slow. Do you think I’m eating too few calories and it’s slowing the process?

springlering62

https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10942702/base-goal

you haven’t provide us any information. We don’t know your Dec, age, weight, height, or activity level.

And in all honesty, many new users idea of “slow”‘is ridiculously tainted by social media expectations. There’s a few numpties around here who think that 12 pounds in a month is “slow”. Not unless you’re close to or morbidly obese.

How long have you been doing this?

Help us help you! 😘

qzff9nknfp

Sorry to leave out details. I am a 45 year old male. 6 feet tall, currently 261 lbs. I have a desk job and go the gym every other day. I do weight training (no real cardio). I have been calorie/macro counting for a few months. Also idk if it matters but I am a vegetarian, so protein is harder to get.

AnnPT77

https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/comment/48680757#Comment_48680757

"A few months"?

Losing 12 pounds in 3 months would be good. It would likely be safe at 261 to lose a little faster than that for a while, but a pound a week would be solid progress, something most people could sustain long enough to lose a meaningful total amount. Losing 12 pounds in 6 months at 261 pounds would be slower than necessary, but fine if you're satisfied with it.

Generally, we're intended to eat our full calorie goal. The common advice here is to do that for 4-6 weeks (whole menstrual cycles for those who have them, which you presumably don't 😉), then use the average weekly weight loss over that time period to adjust calorie goal. To adjust, we'd assume that a pound a week is 500 calories a day, and use arithmetic for partial pounds.

In the overwhelming majority of cases, eating too few calories won't slow down weight loss noticeably. It will tend to speed it up. There are a narrow range of exceptions, the main one being cases where a person is eating so little that they're fatigued, dragging through the day, maybe showing other signs of under-fueling like unexplained weakness, being cold oddly often, thinning hair, and that sort of thing.

If I put your demographics into a TDEE estimator online, it suggests your maintenance calorie needs might be around 2500 daily, possibly up to 2800 or so depending on other aspects of activity beyond job and gym. If that's true, eating 2500 would result in quite limited weight loss, but 1800-2000 would be expected to result in losing around a pound to a pound and a half per week, roughly, on average.

The calculators are based on average people, though, and not all of us are average, though most people are close. That's why we use those estimates as a starting point, and adjust based on many-weeks average personal experience.

Macros don't have a direct effect on weight loss: Calorie balance determines that. They can have an indirect effect, usually via fatigue (because we drag through the day, burning fewer calories than expected) or appetite (because we have trouble sticking with our calorie goal). The direct mechanism is still calories.

As a vegetarian myself (ovo-lacto veg for 51 years now), I understand that protein may be challenging. However, it should be possible to get a reasonable amount, even if fully plant-based. It's OK to use protein powder or bars, and even if you think they're not ideal for you, it can be a transition help.

For me, when I needed to get adequate protein on reduced calories, the key was to review my food diary regularly, look for foods that had relatively many calories but little/no protein, and that weren't important for me to for other solid reasons. Those were foods that I could reduce in routine portion size or frequency. I could use those calories to bring other foods I like into my routine eating habits, ones that made at least some contribution to my protein goal.

I also made it a point to look for sides, beverages, condiments, flavorings, veggies, etc., that had relatively more protein. Those tend to be small amounts, but they can add up across a day.

If you want more help with protein, say so; it would be useful to know more about what your protein goal and current level are, plus something about your eating style/preferences.

Best wishes!

PAV8888

There is some gold above. Do read and re-read the two posts…. especially Ann's more informationally dense one ;-)

My only interjection re: Ann's post would be how you believe you should be calculating your protein needs and what "need" really means.

I'm definitely on the protein is good and a little bit extra is a lot LOT lot better than a little bit too little bandwagon. But the too little mark is a very different discussion at the water cooler of the olympic lifting gym vs at the tucked away cubicle closet of a hospital's token dietician.

Examine.com has some fairly well researched estimates for optimal numbers and even then I would view the ranges as aspirational over longer time periods as opposed to strict necessities. *as long as we are not dealing with frequent dips into the actual too little danger zone.

You don't give too much information ;-) But given your current weight and height and gym I am going to assume that you are probably targeting the high onederland mark. So you're looking at a good year plus of deficit eating. Which is FINE. Because it will give you time to revamp how you eat and move and structure your time.

Sedentary means different things to different people. I've met people who thought they were sedentary and weren't and I've met people who believe(d) themselves to be fairly active and yet they are/were, based on the definitions in common use, objectively sedentary.

If your phone / watch / pedometer clocks less than 3500 steps a day, you probably objectively match the sedentary status envisioned by most online estimators. MFP's base activity level is a little bit higher than the one used in many other online tools, so I would (and this is guessing) include the first 5000 steps a day in the MFP definition.

But if you're clocking 7 or 8000 plus steps a day then you are not sedentary… that's just an example.

Keep in mind that strength training is beyond good, I would love to be able to convince myself to engage in some ;-) But that there do exist some minimum recommendations for activity levels for a healthy 45 yo…. sloth does not healthy make if non sloth is a valid option… and sedentary desk work has its own long term health dangers that MIGHT be avoidable with some effort… just saying!

Counting calories relatively accurately is an acquired taste and task. For sure, having a general idea about one's caloric consumption is easier to arrange—and less precise, of course. The rules of thumb that Ann indicates above will still work as long as you're consistent in how you operate.

And over the long term little bumps disappear in the averages so you CAN operate with more or less precision as long as you are still able to create a balanced approach between doing too little and doing too much.

qzff9nknfp

Ann and Pav thank you both for all the information. I try to hit 100 - 120 protein. I know that’s low but I honestly don’t know where else to get it from. I eat tofu but not daily and I am not against protein powders but again don’t have it daily. Any suggestions on where to get more from a plant based perspective would be amazing!

PAV8888

That was interesting: MFPeeeeeeee! (crashed post in the browser!?!?!?)

While I don't think that 100g to 120g of protein is concerningly low by any stretch, given your height/gender/age, I would guess it will be not quite up to "optimum" levels according to most estimators.

Mind you, as far as I am concerned — and willing to be proven wrong if that's the case — once you've got all the little amino acids that you need floating around in there at 100% + a tiny bit for insurance… well then, the rest of the protein intake is just an energy source! :)

Now I realize that there is discussion to be had about the lean mass sparing / protective aspect of extra protein intake; but then again strength training does that too. And not all types of lean mass need to be spared anyway! Which is part of why I say that there exists a difference between the words optimal and concerning… and the levels of protein intake associated with them.

Ann will probably link some good vegetarian protein sources. Typically many vegetarians consume combinations such as legumes (beans, lentils, chickpeas, peas, peanuts, etc) and bread (for example) whether in one meal or over multiple, or eat things such as tempeh or as you mentioned other soya products such as tofu…. heck even some non vegetarians such as myself eat some of that stuff for the heck of it!

In any case, Ann often links the evidence based examine.com protein discussion and estimator. I think you might be able to get a start by checking out: https://examine.com/guides/protein-intake/ (I had some browser trouble getting in there due to failed "robot checking"; but did get in on a different browser session. should be able to just search for it too)

Anyway: your base question having to do with over-doing your under-eating. At first blush, and based on what's been discussed so far, it doesn't sound likely. But having room for optimization? That's possible!

Ultimately optimal loss speed exists in a tension between too fast and too slow. But more important is to learn while moving towards new (and more appropriate for our goals) long term patterns!

IMHO, of course and all that being a standard disclaimer! ;-)

AnnPT77

Honestly, I think PAV did a good job identifying many of the plant sources of good quality protein: Tofu, tempeh, dry-roasted or fresh/frozen cooked edamame, quinoa (not as protein dense for the calories), etc. Less balanced in essential amino acids (EAAs) but good sources otherwise are seitan (some more EAA complete than others because they're a prepared food with varied recipes, loosely), legumes, some other grains especially some of the unusual ones. Most nuts are high in fats for the amount of protein, but we need some healthy fats. Some seeds also have some decent protein plus healthy fats.

Anytime you have protein sources that are less EAA balanced, varying them will help balance things out. If you haven't, looking into "protein complementarity" will give you hints, but be aware you don't need to combine them all in the same meal, more like get a balanced variety over the day. Traditional combinations tend to be pretty good, such as beans and corn (think Mexican/South American foods), beans and rice (as in Asian, Indian), etc.

If you have Asian markets near you, check them out for more variations on soy foods and seitan. (They may be labeled as mock meats, but they aren't all as fake-y as things like Impossible burgers and such. For example, you can get tofu that's cut into noodle shapes and is as firm as noodles, good in various ways. I like to bake them until crisp and use them in/on foods that way, too.

The Examine.com link PAV pointed out has a section about protein for vegans that goes into issues of completeness, bioavailability, and complementarity, and there's also a good site for general vegan nutrition (science based) here:

https://veganhealth.org/

Look for breads with relatively more protein if you eat bread. There are protein pastas now. To me, red lentil pastas have the taste/texture most similar to wheat pastas, though brand does matter. Edamame pasta or black bean pasta are high in protein, but do have a more chewy texture. I like them in pseudo-Asian preparations such as veggie stir-fries, not so much in tomato sauce kinds of things. YMMV.

Look for veggies and such with relatively more protein, too. Some of those are less bioavailable, and most are not EAA balanced, but add at least some protein to the mix. There's a thread here that links to a spreadsheet listing many foods in order by most protein for fewest calories. Most of the things at the top of that list are meaty/fishy, but scroll further down and you'll find plant sources you may not have been tuned into. That's here:

https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10247171/carbs-and-fats-are-cheap-heres-a-guide-to-getting-your-proteins-worth-fiber-also

The spreadsheet has some columns that will give you starting indications of protein completeness/quality in each food, but you can use web search on individual foods of interest to learn more.

I'd encourage you to think of even flavoring ingredients that bring some protein: Nutritional yeast, miso, peanut butter powder (defatted peanut flour) or almond butter powder, etc.

Like I said, I found regular food diary review and tweaking of my routine eating habits to gradually get me to higher amounts of protein. Because I'm ovo-lacto, and love dairy, I get a lot of my protein from dairy, but I think I could do fine fully plant based if I wanted to. Even now, I usually eat at least one meal daily centered on soy food (usually tofu or tempeh), plus get protein through the day from other sources mentioned above.

springlering62

Y'all are the best. 😘

btw, this cracked me up:

the tucked away cubicle closet of a hospital's token dietician

You are uncanny! Our (hospital affiliated) gym dietician’s office is so tiny, she can’t close the door if she has a client, and if two of us (husband came with) are in there, one’s legs are sticking out in the hallway.