Why aren't healthier foods priced lower than junk foods?

RunningRichelle

Not sure if anyone's given an actual response to this question or if everyone is just arguing and flailing about as usual.

In America, the 'junk' foods are cheaper than organic produce because the government is currently subsidizing crops like corn and soy, which make up the majority of ingredients in 'junk' food.

If the government instead switched to subsidizing organic produce, the prices would flip. A bunch of organic celery would be 50 cents at Whole Foods instead of $2-$3, and the box of Hamburger Helper would be something like $5 instead of $1.

shaynepoole

http://www.buzzfeed.com/ryanhatesthis/11-kinds-of-junk-food-that-cost-almost-twice-as-much-somethi

cgarand

Honestly, I don't need the supermarkets or the government stepping in to get me to make healthy choices. The government already insinuates themselves into every aspect of our lives already, why invite them to do it further? It is possible to eat healthy without spending a fortune.

sweetpea03b

That's easy... because they use ingredients that THEY MAKE to produce it, so its all within a manufacturer's control. Now take fruit and meat for example.... fruit is dependent upon weather, soil conditions, etc. which is out of everyone's control. Meat is dependent upon fertility (to have baby cows, etc) and the care of the ranchers to keep them healthy and alive.

The more "real" a food is... the more expensive it is. Also remember that when it comes from the US its more expensive than stuff that comes from overseas because we have minimum wages when other countries pay pennies on the dollar.

toaster6

Well, it's certainly not the case everywhere. Where I live, junk foods cost quite a bit more than better quality foods. Chips, sodas, and cookies-- even the store brand versions-- cost less than nearly all the fruits and vegetables at the grocery store I visit. The only exceptions are for exported speciality items. If I went to buy enough food from a fast food restaurant to feel satisfied, I could spend about five to six dollars on a meal whereas if I cooked a meal for myself from fresh groceries, it would cost less than two dollars.

eldamiano

The more "real" a food is... the more expensive it is.

This is nonsense. Give an obese person £6 to go and buy lunch and he/she will more likely go to the local burger takeaway to buy a half pounder with cheese and chips, rather than go to the supermarket and buy a low calorie chicken bake which would be half the price. Call me stereotypical if you like but laziness, gluttony and ignorance to reasonably priced healthy options are the real reason for the obesity epidemic. The quicker that people stop blaming external factors for being overweight, the better.

journey_man

I wouldn't completely disregard what the OP is saying. After all, living in an environment that doesn't support healthy living does have an impact on people.

This. I am all for personal responsibility, but some like to pretend that people live in a vacuum and that outside influences never matter (e.g., the childish refrain of "nobody is fooooooooorcing you to eat crap!"). They do, to various extent.

Obesity is a huge and worsening problem in this country (the US) and some others. You could smugly blame it all on a lack of personal responsibility, but maybe, just maybe, you could entertain the notion that there are ALSO SYSTEMIC reasons for it, as with some other great ills that plague us.

In the context of improving one's life, it's far more useful to focus on the former. But let's quit categorically (and quite absurdly) denying the existence of the latter.

ThriceBlessed

Several reasons. In the United States a large part of the reason is because of Government subsidies on corn and soybeans, most of which is Genetically modified. A lot of that taxpayer subsidized GM corn is turned into High Fructose Corn syrup which is used in most packaged foods, fast foods, etc. There is a similar story with the soybeans, it is very difficult to find packaged foods without soy products in them.

Now, add to that the longer shelf life of foods that are packed with preservatives, the higher yields of GM crops that are sprayed with pesticides, and the higher demand for junk foods because so many people like them. You get lower prices for the junk, and higher prices for the healthy food.

However, there is still no excuse for eating huge amounts of crap. People do that because they prefer it. No, not everyone can afford to eat completely clean, organic food all the time, but if you can afford junk you afford lentils and brown rice. If you can afford twinkies you can afford oranges. If you can afford McDonalds than you can afford to to make whole wheat spaghetti at home...

DamePiglet

There's nothing about buying foods and preparing and cooking them that is "dietary optimization." The rest of the world calls it cooking.

And there's nothing beneficial about the blanket statement that "canned foods are bad."
That's called ignorance.

kgeyser

I wouldn't completely disregard what the OP is saying. After all, living in an environment that doesn't support healthy living does have an impact on people.

This. I am all for personal responsibility, but some like to pretend that people live in a vacuum and that outside influences never matter (e.g., the childish refrain of "nobody is fooooooooorcing you to eat crap!"). They do, to various extent.

Obesity is a huge and worsening problem in this country (the US) and some others. You could smugly blame it all on a lack of personal responsibility, but maybe, just maybe, you could entertain the notion that there are ALSO SYSTEMIC reasons for it, as with some other great ills that plague us.

In the context of improving one's life, it's far more useful to focus on the former. But let's quit categorically (and quite absurdly) denying the existence of the latter.

^^^This. I'm not disagreeing that people will often make poor food choices, but there are other factors leading to those choices than just a desire to eat crap. Distance to the grocery store and work schedules mean that a lot of families rely heavily on canned, jarred, and preservative-filled foods for their meals. Fresh ingredients simply don't last as long, so if you don't get a chance to use them, they go bad and you've wasted your money. Not everyone has the time or knowledge to cook from scratch, or the space available in their homes to make up batches of healthy foods on the weekend to freeze for later or store after canning and preserving the fresh fruits and veggies. Depending on where you live, even the farmer's markets are not a deal; the ones local to me only run through the summer and their prices are comparable to what you see in the grocery stores on produce. For meats, it's off the charts. There are definitely ways to save money out there, but you have to have the resources to do it.

DamePiglet

^^^This. I'm not disagreeing that people will often make poor food choices, but there are other factors leading to those choices than just a desire to eat crap. Distance to the grocery store and work schedules mean that a lot of families rely heavily on canned, jarred, and preservative-filled foods for their meals. Fresh ingredients simply don't last as long, so if you don't get a chance to use them, they go bad and you've wasted your money. Not everyone has the time or knowledge to cook from scratch, or the space available in their homes to make up batches of healthy foods on the weekend to freeze for later or store after canning and preserving the fresh fruits and veggies. Depending on where you live, even the farmer's markets are not a deal; the ones local to me only run through the summer and their prices are comparable to what you see in the grocery stores on produce. For meats, it's off the charts. There are definitely ways to save money out there, but you have to have the resources to do it.

I agree with this. Environmental challenges are a factor, however, plenty of people who eat canned foods, etc. are fit. It is an additional challenge. Not one that is impossible to overcome, but a challenge.

Greytfish

There's nothing about buying foods and preparing and cooking them that is "dietary optimization." The rest of the world calls it cooking.

And there's nothing beneficial about the blanket statement that "canned foods are bad."
That's called ignorance.

What's beneficial about your misquoting, making false assumptions, and taking everything out of context to suit your needs?

stealthq

I wouldn't completely disregard what the OP is saying. After all, living in an environment that doesn't support healthy living does have an impact on people.

This. I am all for personal responsibility, but some like to pretend that people live in a vacuum and that outside influences never matter (e.g., the childish refrain of "nobody is fooooooooorcing you to eat crap!"). They do, to various extent.

Obesity is a huge and worsening problem in this country (the US) and some others. You could smugly blame it all on a lack of personal responsibility, but maybe, just maybe, you could entertain the notion that there are ALSO SYSTEMIC reasons for it, as with some other great ills that plague us.

In the context of improving one's life, it's far more useful to focus on the former. But let's quit categorically (and quite absurdly) denying the existence of the latter.

^^^This. I'm not disagreeing that people will often make poor food choices, but there are other factors leading to those choices than just a desire to eat crap. Distance to the grocery store and work schedules mean that a lot of families rely heavily on canned, jarred, and preservative-filled foods for their meals. Fresh ingredients simply don't last as long, so if you don't get a chance to use them, they go bad and you've wasted your money. Not everyone has the time or knowledge to cook from scratch, or the space available in their homes to make up batches of healthy foods on the weekend to freeze for later or store after canning and preserving the fresh fruits and veggies. Depending on where you live, even the farmer's markets are not a deal; the ones local to me only run through the summer and their prices are comparable to what you see in the grocery stores on produce. For meats, it's off the charts. There are definitely ways to save money out there, but you have to have the resources to do it.

Yeah ... no. That's not a good reason, either.

Nearly every fresh veg, fruit, and meat can be bought frozen. Frozen foods are often on sale and can be bought in bulk. Some vegetables and fruits are actually more nutritious when flash-frozen then 'fresh' after transport. They certainly aren't significantly less nutritious, so no real reason not to buy them other than preference. Obviously, people with severely limited space won't be able to buy in bulk, but they can still buy 'normal' amounts on sale.

I do agree about the farmer's market. Around here, for most items they are just as if not more expensive than the grocery.

The real issue is that people want to find all kinds of external factors that 'make' them eat poorly (or do other things they know they shouldn't do). External factors do make the 'right' choices more difficult. But they don't exonerate each person for taking responsibility for themselves. No one is ever going to eliminate all negative influences on their life. You (generic) have to make the 'right' choice despite them.

DamePiglet

There's nothing about buying foods and preparing and cooking them that is "dietary optimization." The rest of the world calls it cooking.

And there's nothing beneficial about the blanket statement that "canned foods are bad."
That's called ignorance.

What's beneficial about your misquoting, making false assumptions, and taking everything out of context to suit your needs?

Well, let's see... Am I misquoting?

Of course not. The problem is the buying food in a can to start.

THE problem?

There are plenty of things wrong with canned foods.

So, let me get this straight...
You're NOT saying canned food is bad? I am supposed to derive that you DON'T think canned foods are bad from those statements?
I lack the superpower to read minds. Sorry about that.

Then...
you said:

There are people here who are morbidly obese, for which the fitness journey is much more long term endeavor. Some of them will put in the work to get back into a normal body composition and just try to saty there, some will continue thier fitness journey. ... It's not a value judgement of the individual, it's simply acknowledging that improvement is about the work you put into it and that the more fit you get, generally the more work you have to put in to see improvement from that point. Not everyone wants to keep improving and there's nothing wrong with that.

after saying:

And no one was suggesting that one cannot lose weight restricting calories on a diet composed of almost anything. And yes, that might improve overall health somewhat if you were at least overweight to begin with only because losing adipose tissue by any means (including surgical removal) will generally increase health relative to what it had been. I just don't confuse weight loss with health or think that "better" relative to very unhealthy is anything to pursue as a goal.

So, which is it?
Is it "okay" to go from terrible dietary habits to "better" habits, or not? In the first paragraph, you say "yes", in the second you say that it's not.
Look, I can only go by the things you say to figure out what you mean. I can't read your mind..
From the beginning, I only tried to tell you that adopting a particular diet does NOT mean that you'll be fit, and it's NOT the cause for obesity in this country.... someone can home cook everything and still be unhealthy and/or obese.
At the same time, someone can home cook NOTHING and be fit.

Greytfish

You had no problem reading minds, as opposed to actual text, when it suits your needs.

I'm not sure if you're deliberately being obtuse, or whether you really cannot comprhehend that those two paragraphs are not contradictory.

If all you have tried to do is " tell [me] that adopting a particular diet does NOT mean that [I'll] be fit" save your tedious typing. I never argued that point. All you have done is fabricate the arguments you think I'm making and the supposed thinking behind them. If all you want to do is argue with the points you suppose other people want to make, you can stop hijacking the thread and do that in alone.

Derpes

You had no problem reading minds, as opposed to actual text, when it suits your needs.

I'm not sure if you're deliberately being obtuse, or whether you really cannot comprhehend that those two paragraphs are not contradictory.

If all you have tried to do is " tell [me] that adopting a particular diet does NOT mean that [I'll] be fit" save your tedious typing. I never argued that point. All you have done is fabricate the arguments you think I'm making and the supposed thinking behind them. If all you want to do is argue with the points you suppose other people want to make, you can stop hijacking the thread and do that in alone.

If anyone has hijacked the thread, it is you.

Additionally, you have demonized canned food yet have provided little evidence to substantiate your claims. While canned food is not the best choice, not all canned foods are created equal.

Mr_Knight

What, now canned food is bad?

Good grief.

Greytfish

If anyone has hijacked the thread, it is you.

Additionally, you have demonized canned food yet have provided little evidence to substantiate your claims. While canned food is not the best choice, not all canned foods are created equal.

I made a single, qualitative comparison of frozen foods vs. canned vegetables. A statement which, incidentally, isn't an opinion of moral value, but actual micronutrient content.

Then apparently rather than refute that, we had to have a long "educational" discussion involving lots of supposition about sweeping beliefs to which I don't adhere, but apparenlt can be deduced from a basic statement about the relative merits of food.

Certainly not all canned foods are equal. Some actually are now packed as "lower sodium" and so have about the same sodium as their frozen counterparts. Many of them have BPA, though that is finally decreasing. They're certainly better if you frequently live through hurricanes. But, thankfully, no one wanted to discuss actual merits. And we quickly got away from my actual point, which was that healthier veggies don't have to cost more.

eldamiano

What, now canned food is bad?

Good grief.

Apparently baked beans are one of your 5 a day

Schtroumpfkin

Honestly, I don't need the supermarkets or the government stepping in to get me to make healthy choices.

THIS!