What role does faith play?
Replies
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More like......there is not enough evidence for a higher power. Therefore, the default position is to accept the Null Hypothesis until such time that there is enough evidence to change our minds on the subject. It's not that many atheists are not willing to accept that a higher power exists......it's just that we haven't seen any good reason to....yet.
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Have you ever seen a baby born? Watched a thunderstorn? Been healed of disease? Smelled wild flowers? Planted a garden? Felt truly loved?
Those are just a few reasons most folks find it impossible not to believe.
As yes......The Argument from the Ineffable.
Here's one for ya:
The Argument from Torquemada......See that burning stake over there? Therefore god exists.
How would Athiests explain the creation of the universe, planets, etc? I've always wondered. Ok.. there was space dust hanging out there somewhere billions of years ago... then somehow something happened and the conditions were just right and BOOM, it all came together in a perfect storm. But wait... who put the space dust there? And what was there before the space dust? What about the dust of the space dust?
Someone, at some point put it there... things cannot come of nothing... for the Athiests who rely on science so heavily, I would think that simple fact would make the most sense to them.0 -
Good one. I will wait for the atheist to respond.We all worship something, whether we acknowledge the Creator or not.
That being said, has anyone ever made love to an atheist before? How do they reword things when they climax? Or do they?0 -
I asked this earlier, but I believe it got lost in the shuffle:
From an atheist's point of view, what is faith?
Faith is blind belief in something without any proof.
Then, we ALL have faith in something. No?
For some things, we (meaning all of us) have to accept anecdotal evidence or the results of the process of elimination, because there is currently no solid "proof" to back up what we believe to be true.
But are you willing to change your beliefs in the face of further research that God does not exist? Are you referring to science when you are talking about anecdotal evidence or process of elimination?
So, the point is not that you have faith, but that you're willing to give up your faith if a better alternative arises or if the object of faith fails?
And, yes, I was referring to science, although I think we're digressing from the original post! LOL
For instance, anyone interested in science knows that the foundational laws of science require us to believe that something cannot come from nothing, because matter cannot be created or destroyed. They also know that biogenesis dictates that life can only come from life. Thermodynamics teaches us that energy goes from a state of greater usefulness to lesser usefulness.
And yet, the same people that would ridicule a person for believing in a deity will argue until they're blue in the face that none of the above apply to the "theory" of evolution (quotations because it does not even qualify to be termed a theory) because it DID happen "somehow".
Those same people would turn their noses up at the many documented instances of miracles directly linked to prayer that baffles the science world because it's impossible. Since they haven't seen the kind of miracle they want that deity to perform, they have to conclude that the body "somehow" healed itself, and we just need to do some more research to figure out how to make it happen again.
Do you see where I'm coming from? I'm not bashing you or anyone else, but you need to realize that "believers" are not the only ones that have faith.
And, to answer your question... No, I wouldn't give up my own faith because of "proof" that the science world would offer, simply because it has proven itself to be unreliable and changing, while my own anecdotal evidence shows that the object of my faith is genuine.0 -
Trying to honor God with a healthy body & lifestyle. It's hard to not get too focussed on SELF when pursuing physical change/goals. I am thankful every day that God has given me an able body, a sound mind, resources to have at my disposal, and an abundance of freedom to choose how to honor Him.
To those who don't know Christ, these things sound foolish. But, I'll be a fool for the Gospel every day of my life!! :-)0 -
No wonder there's so many issues with depression in this world :-( Thinking there is nothing at the end of the road is a pretty sad existence.
actually I take comfort in it. That there is an END.
Can those arguing that atheists are something they are not stop and dirrect that to a new thread. The OP asked a good question, and FAITH is more than faith in a god so everyone has a right to answer.. this isnt just about religeon.
Please.. before the thread gets locked or deleted because you're being annoying with your "YOU MUST BELIEVE IN GOD" - not to mention giving other believers a bad rep :P0 -
I have a few blog posts that goes into how I put my faith into this...
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/blog/Mama2SethandOlivia/view/my-body-is-his-temple-191566
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/blog/Mama2SethandOlivia/view/my-chains-are-gone-i-m-set-free-2306530 -
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I asked this earlier, but I believe it got lost in the shuffle:
From an atheist's point of view, what is faith?
Faith is blind belief in something without any proof.
Faith is also very dangerous because it leaves a person open for others to take advantage of them. We see this in the news all the time.....sometimes related to religious things......just as often there are con artists in the secular world. It all goes back to choosing to believe in stuff without any good proof to validate your choice.
Rational thinking, logic, and such are quite difficult things.....many folks don't even want to try. They would rather an authority figure tell them what the "guy-in-the-sky" wants....and call it faith....and try to make a virtue out of giving up their powers of reason.
Your "rationalization" here of why faith is dangerous couldn't be more off-point. Believers aren't all just a bunch of blind sheep without brains. *sigh* You are making a broad, sweeping statement that is accurate about only a very small percentage of believers - and chances are really good that those things would be true about them with or without God (or faith) in their life.0 -
I believe you have my stapler.0
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Having faith is believing without seeing. If the truth was right before your eyes, it wouldn't be "faith." Not trying to sound corny, but I hope each of you who are looking for a reason to believe, will find it.
No wonder there's so many issues with depression in this world :-( Thinking there is nothing at the end of the road is a pretty sad existence.
Glad to know you assume I live a sad existence!!
Actually I really don't care what is at the END of the road because it is just that THE END. How you travel the road is what matters, what one does while living and breathing is important. Just because I don't "believe" or go to church on Sunday doesn't make my existence a sad one!0 -
More like......there is not enough evidence for a higher power. Therefore, the default position is to accept the Null Hypothesis until such time that there is enough evidence to change our minds on the subject. It's not that many atheists are not willing to accept that a higher power exists......it's just that we haven't seen any good reason to....yet.
---
Have you ever seen a baby born? Watched a thunderstorn? Been healed of disease? Smelled wild flowers? Planted a garden? Felt truly loved?
Those are just a few reasons most folks find it impossible not to believe.
As yes......The Argument from the Ineffable.
Here's one for ya:
The Argument from Torquemada......See that burning stake over there? Therefore god exists.
How would Athiests explain the creation of the universe, planets, etc? I've always wondered. Ok.. there was space dust hanging out there somewhere billions of years ago... then somehow something happened and the conditions were just right and BOOM, it all came together in a perfect storm. But wait... who put the space dust there? And what was there before the space dust? What about the dust of the space dust?
Someone, at some point put it there... things cannot come of nothing... for the Athiests who rely on science so heavily, I would think that simple fact would make the most sense to them.
500 years ago, the entire civilized world was certain the Earth was flat. Thank goodness there were a few people willing to question such blind beliefs and explore other possibilities.
Science answers more and more questions every day. Their powerful telescopes have shown the birth and death of stars.... and nowhere in those pictures is a long bearded guy wielding a magic wand. Give it time. Science is still in its infancy when you consider how long man has been living via superstitions.0 -
When you look at your watch today would you ever conclude that one day it just came into existence without a designer. The existence of the universe and how everything works together is evidence of intelligent design. Man's problem is that most want to reject the existence of a being with greater intelligence. Man wants to deny faith, but then lean upon unreasonable guesses and call that evidence. Just like your watch, you have been designed and created.
We know that God created the heaven and the earth (Genesis 1:1). We know that God created man (Genesis 1:26-27). Isaiah and Jeremiah penned the following: “For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else... I have made the earth, the man and the beast that are upon the ground, by my great power and by my outstretched arm, and have given it unto whom it seemed meet unto me” (Isaiah 45:18 and Jeremiah 27:5). We know that God made man upright, but man has sought out many inventions (Ecclesiastes 7:29). So, this article is not going to be about observing the beauty of man, but of the heaven and earth.
The Psalmist wrote: “When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained” (Psalms 8:3). Do you feel that way? Do you look at the sky, the moon, and the stars in awe? Do we stand in awe of the beauty of all things God created and the depth of wisdom seen in creation (Ecclesiastes 3:11 and Proverbs 3:19)? What would happen if the sun were closer or further away? Well, we’d freeze or burn up. What would happen if the sea did not have a barrier (Jeremiah 5:22)? Well, we’d see massive flooding and death all over the world. Folks, it is not a mystery to Bible students how all things stand in perfect balance (Nehemiah 9:6). However, it should still be an awesome sight to behold (Psalms 33:8).
How often do you stand outside and look at the sky? Do you listen to the birds? Here in El Paso we have a privilege in the clear sky we see nearly year round. Coming from parts of Ohio and Pennsylvania where it was cloudy more than clear, I still stand in awe of how bright the sun really is. I look at our night skies here and wonder at the beauty of the stars. There is no way in the world that a thinking person could behold the night skies of El Paso and deny our Lord as the Creator. The wonders of our universe clearly declare the existence of the Almighty!
Certainly, we could show the existence of God through Scientific foreknowledge in the Bible (Job 26:7, Isaiah 40:22, Leviticus 17:11-14, Ecclesiastes 1:7; 11:3, Amos 9:6, II Samuel 22:16, and Job 38:16). We could go through many prophesies that were fulfilled (Psalms 34:20; John 19:32-36 / Isaiah 7:14; Matthew 1:22-23, etc.). We could show forth eye witness accounts of the life and works of Jesus Christ (Acts 3:13-15). However, the creation of our Lord does speak for itself: “The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork... And saying, Sirs, why do ye these things? We also are men of like passions with you, and preach unto you that ye should turn from these vanities unto the living God, which made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are therein: Who in times past suffered all nations to walk in their own ways. Nevertheless he left not himself without witness, in that he did good, and gave us rain from heaven, and fruitful seasons, filling our hearts with food and gladness” (Psalms 19:1 and Acts 14:15-17).
What do you see when you look at the creatures which roam upon the earth? The book of Job declares: “But ask now the beasts, and they shall teach thee; and the fowls of the air, and they shall tell thee: Or speak to the earth, and it shall teach thee: and the fishes of the sea shall declare unto thee. Who knoweth not in all these that the hand of the LORD hath wrought this? In whose hand is the soul of every living thing, and the breath of all mankind” (Job 12:7-10). God’s creation speaks for itself. Yet, there is more to wonder about when we look at things created by God. Consider the wonder of how He did it!
“And God said, Let there be light: and there was light... And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters... And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so {see also Genesis 1:11; 14-15; 20; 24; 26; etc.}... By the word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth. He gathereth the waters of the sea together as an heap: he layeth up the depth in storehouses. Let all the earth fear the LORD: let all the inhabitants of the world stand in awe of him. For he spake, and it was done; he commanded, and it stood fast... Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear” (Genesis 1:3; 6; 9, Psalms 33:6-9, and Hebrews 11:3).
What more could be said than that which we see around us every day and every night? Maybe we should all consider taking more time to look at the wonders which our Lord has created. Consider the following words from the Apostle Paul as our conclusion: “For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you. God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands; Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things; And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation; That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us: For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring. Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device. And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead” (Acts 17:23-31).
One of the creepiest posts I have ever seen. Doesn't even attempt to answer the question.
At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you.......0 -
More like......there is not enough evidence for a higher power. Therefore, the default position is to accept the Null Hypothesis until such time that there is enough evidence to change our minds on the subject. It's not that many atheists are not willing to accept that a higher power exists......it's just that we haven't seen any good reason to....yet.
---
Have you ever seen a baby born? Watched a thunderstorn? Been healed of disease? Smelled wild flowers? Planted a garden? Felt truly loved?
Those are just a few reasons most folks find it impossible not to believe.
As yes......The Argument from the Ineffable.
Here's one for ya:
The Argument from Torquemada......See that burning stake over there? Therefore god exists.
How would Athiests explain the creation of the universe, planets, etc? I've always wondered. Ok.. there was space dust hanging out there somewhere billions of years ago... then somehow something happened and the conditions were just right and BOOM, it all came together in a perfect storm. But wait... who put the space dust there? And what was there before the space dust? What about the dust of the space dust?
Someone, at some point put it there... things cannot come of nothing... for the Athiests who rely on science so heavily, I would think that simple fact would make the most sense to them.
Really......it's ok to say "I don't know" I don't know.....yet.......and there are a lot of really smart people doing work on these very questions rather than making up fairy tales and trying to pawn them off as the truth.0 -
As my father always said, "It's not the destination, its the journey."
It's both, IMO.
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Everyone needs a way to re-focus themselves when they feel they're losing site of their goals, or even need to set goals in the first place. There are lots of ways to achieve that. I sit down and talk to myself, read magazines, and find role models. Some people sit down and consult with God. He's a good sounding board.0
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No no no.
First, an atheist has to convert to Christianity and a Christian will have to renounce their faith. This is how these threads always end up!0 -
An athiest has to have faith that there is no greater power. Therefore, atheists have faith. Honestly, I believe it takes more faith to not believe in God than to believe in God.
Comments like this are ridiculously condescending. Being a Christian, i get annoyed by comments like this because it makes folks who are less pushy about their views look bad.
This (the idea that you have faith whether you believe or not) undermines the significance of having faith, which (at least for me) is the foundation upon which the entire premise of religion rests.I disagree my friend. You believe there is no higher power, I believe there is... we both believe something. Whether it's Bigfoot, Aliens, or God... we are both believing in something, thus that is where our faith lies.0 -
How would Athiests explain the creation of the universe, planets, etc? I've always wondered. Ok.. there was space dust hanging out there somewhere billions of years ago... then somehow something happened and the conditions were just right and BOOM, it all came together in a perfect storm. But wait... who put the space dust there? And what was there before the space dust? What about the dust of the space dust?
Someone, at some point put it there... things cannot come of nothing... for the Athiests who rely on science so heavily, I would think that simple fact would make the most sense to them.
Yes and your "A wizard did it" is so much more enlightened...0 -
.....Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you.......0 -
To me, faith is very important. Faith gives me my motivation is to make this earthly vessel I have been given capable of doing God's work while I am here. I know that I cannot do it alone, and that I am lost without God. It is ONLY by God's loving grace that I am alive and sane today (which is a topic for another thread, as I USED to be an atheist.). However, I must act on that faith and "step out of the boat" because faith without works is dead. I must also love people as God loves me, for 'if I have the faith to move mountains, and have not love, I am nothing.' (1 corinthians 13:2)
So, ummm yeah, faith is up there for me!0
This discussion has been closed.
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