For Vegans / Vegetarians only.
Replies
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Guess OP never heard of the term encephalization.0
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One question for the guy swearing that this is the 'proper' way to do things. How many world strength records are held by Vegans? The answer is none.
So, if this diet is the way that humans are 'supposed' to eat, why are they so physically inferior when they are eating this way? Granted, there are some strong guys out there who are Vegan, and I am not arguing that. What I am saying is that if this is the ideal diet, shouldn't Vegans be dominating their meat eating relatives in all sports? They're not...at all. In fact, they're not even close.
So, why?
How many of those strength records are held by people on steroids?
Are vegans less likely to take steroids and therefore unlikely to hold such records?
I don't know, I just thought I would put it out there.
If you'd like, I can throw the drug tested records out there as well.
Lmao! Do you live in a hole?
I have two words for you... Lance Armstrong
Hahaha0 -
One question for the guy swearing that this is the 'proper' way to do things. How many world strength records are held by Vegans? The answer is none.
So, if this diet is the way that humans are 'supposed' to eat, why are they so physically inferior when they are eating this way? Granted, there are some strong guys out there who are Vegan, and I am not arguing that. What I am saying is that if this is the ideal diet, shouldn't Vegans be dominating their meat eating relatives in all sports? They're not...at all. In fact, they're not even close.
So, why?
Athletes who are vegan/vegetarian:
Patrik Baboumian, Strongman competitor, former bodybuilder
Brendan Brazier, Triathlete
Arian Foster, NFL running back for Houston Texans
Georges Laraq, Pro hockey player
Mike Zigomanis, Pro hockey player
Robert Cheeke, body builder
Luke Cummo, martial artist
Bryan Danielson, pro wrestler
Mike Mahler, body builder
Salim Stoudamire, NBA player
Mike Tyson, pro boxer
RIcky WIlliams, running back for Miami Dolphins
Carl Lewis, Olympic track star
Joe Namath, former NFL quarterback
There are MANY more, but my hand is beginning to hurt typing all the names of all these tremendous athletes.
What else ya got?
Jon Fitch UFC
Jake Shields UFC
Mac Danzig UFC0 -
One question for the guy swearing that this is the 'proper' way to do things. How many world strength records are held by Vegans? The answer is none.
So, if this diet is the way that humans are 'supposed' to eat, why are they so physically inferior when they are eating this way? Granted, there are some strong guys out there who are Vegan, and I am not arguing that. What I am saying is that if this is the ideal diet, shouldn't Vegans be dominating their meat eating relatives in all sports? They're not...at all. In fact, they're not even close.
So, why?
Wrong. The strongest man of Germany is a vegan!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrik_Baboumian0 -
My family is vegan. I feel no need to justify it. We are all healthy and active and happy
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One question for the guy swearing that this is the 'proper' way to do things. How many world strength records are held by Vegans? The answer is none.
So, if this diet is the way that humans are 'supposed' to eat, why are they so physically inferior when they are eating this way? Granted, there are some strong guys out there who are Vegan, and I am not arguing that. What I am saying is that if this is the ideal diet, shouldn't Vegans be dominating their meat eating relatives in all sports? They're not...at all. In fact, they're not even close.
So, why?
Wrong. The strongest man of Germany is a vegan!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrik_Baboumian
Already been hit and knocked down. German strength record does not in any way equal world record. As I said before, this guy's lifts are actually lower than the world records for an entire weight class below him. Try again.0 -
One question for the guy swearing that this is the 'proper' way to do things. How many world strength records are held by Vegans? The answer is none.
So, if this diet is the way that humans are 'supposed' to eat, why are they so physically inferior when they are eating this way? Granted, there are some strong guys out there who are Vegan, and I am not arguing that. What I am saying is that if this is the ideal diet, shouldn't Vegans be dominating their meat eating relatives in all sports? They're not...at all. In fact, they're not even close.
So, why?
How many of those strength records are held by people on steroids?
Are vegans less likely to take steroids and therefore unlikely to hold such records?
I don't know, I just thought I would put it out there.
If you'd like, I can throw the drug tested records out there as well.
Lmao! Do you live in a hole?
I have two words for you... Lance Armstrong
Hahaha
So what you're saying, is that we are just supposed to assume that all Vegans don't use steroids, and that all animal consumers that set records do? I think you're bending the 'benefit of the doubt' rule a little to one side, don't you?0 -
Please don't put words in my mouth. It was in reference to refraining from grains because machinery may have killed some creatures. Doing your best means if palm oil was taken from sources that you know destroyed habitats, try to find an oil that isn't. I obtain my vegetables from my dad's garden, I pick out the slugs and put them back outside. They might not survive but I tried my best to prevent the death, and that is a point. If you eat anything derived directly from animal exploitation you cannot describe your lifestyle as vegan. I haven't spent any money or energy trying to prove I'm better than anyone, as I said already my choices are my own and I never start the argument, but defend when provoked.
To be honest, I get where you are coming from.
Now, here's my quarrel with this. You are basically allowing intent to be your defining factor. The deaths those slugs suffer could be one far more excruciating than if I were to say, decapitate a pig, or to use an extremely weird variation, put one down using a non-painful poison. Since your intention was to let the slug live, somehow it's death is less morally treacherous than the pigs, because I killed the pig with the intention of eating it, though the pig's death was far less painful?
Now, would you agree that if I were to raise my own animals for consumption, and could then be assured that their lives and deaths were as painless as possible, that I would be on the same moral wavelength as the Vegan lifestyle? If not, why?
They could be far more excruciating but the death could also be perfectly natural, the slug could die in it's sleep from old age or I could accidentally step on it, my dog may even use it as a toy. that's a lot of what ifs, and it's a strange argument...one that I doubt can extract many sensible points...
I just try to keep any involvement on my part separated from the suffering of any other being. One aspect of general vegan opinion is a respect for animal welfare. I choose to abstain because it feels right for me personally in many, many ways. Upon educating myself of the realities on many farms by visiting local farms all through my life (I have not visited a slaughter house of ever witnessed an animal being killed, the farms were enough for me), I became vegetarian as a child and as my knowledge of happenings progressed and became more in tune with my adult emotions, progressing me towards becoming vegan through default.
I never see it as "can't eat that", but "I can't bring myself to consider this food". This was a natural feeling deep within me and I know that I personally could not consume anything contained within an animal. I'm not saying it's wrong, I am saying I feel it is wrong for me. This is my own explanation of my heart held beliefs and I'm award that is is over simplified and childlike by nature.
Now that I've slowly crept my way towards your question, for me to consider the idea of raising an animal for food, I know that I would sooner humanly kill myself than be able to raise a weapon to a pig, but I also accept that many people are capable of this. Truth be told, I can respect people who obtain their meat in this way. I have one close friend who hunts deer. He kills about 6 annually and this is his primary source of meat. This man will sit in the rain outside hunting season because he enjoys watching the deer in their environment, he has never needed more than one shot and assures me the deer never know what happened. I'm not going to pretend this idea doesn't upset me, it does. I can't fully comprehend it and would never want to bear witness, but myself and my friend have had many heated conversations where we both express extreme frustration and anger towards the meat industry. My friend is also a butcher, and doesn't buy any of the meat there because he can see signs that the animal was beaten before slaughter (I've suppressed the grisly details, but I seen raw chicken with deep bruises).
We also share the same opinions that many hunters are incompetent and enjoy hurting the deer or extending their death, this man is an exception to that rule, he believes hunting licences should be much more difficult to obtain than they are, in this country anyway.
So.... yeah, it's not for me, but I believe that an animal who had good quality of life and died with no knowledge of what was happening to it, that is far more morally right than the horrifically mistreated animals in some factories. The lesser of two evils
Just let me give the pig a little hug first0 -
They could be far more excruciating but the death could also be perfectly natural, the slug could die in it's sleep from old age or I could accidentally step on it, my dog may even use it as a toy. that's a lot of what ifs, and it's a strange argument...one that I doubt can extract many sensible points...
I just try to keep any involvement on my part separated from the suffering of any other being. One aspect of general vegan opinion is a respect for animal welfare. I choose to abstain because it feels right for me personally in many, many ways. Upon educating myself of the realities on many farms by visiting local farms all through my life (I have not visited a slaughter house of ever witnessed an animal being killed, the farms were enough for me), I became vegetarian as a child and as my knowledge of happenings progressed and became more in tune with my adult emotions, progressing me towards becoming vegan through default.
I never see it as "can't eat that", but "I can't bring myself to consider this food". This was a natural feeling deep within me and I know that I personally could not consume anything contained within an animal. I'm not saying it's wrong, I am saying I feel it is wrong for me. This is my own explanation of my heart held beliefs and I'm award that is is over simplified and childlike by nature.
Now that I've slowly crept my way towards your question, for me to consider the idea of raising an animal for food, I know that I would sooner humanly kill myself than be able to raise a weapon to a pig, but I also accept that many people are capable of this. Truth be told, I can respect people who obtain their meat in this way. I have one close friend who hunts deer. He kills about 6 annually and this is his primary source of meat. This man will sit in the rain outside hunting season because he enjoys watching the deer in their environment, he has never needed more than one shot and assures me the deer never know what happened. I'm not going to pretend this idea doesn't upset me, it does. I can't fully comprehend it and would never want to bear witness, but myself and my friend have had many heated conversations where we both express extreme frustration and anger towards the meat industry. My friend is also a butcher, and doesn't buy any of the meat there because he can see signs that the animal was beaten before slaughter (I've suppressed the grisly details, but I seen raw chicken with deep bruises).
We also share the same opinions that many hunters are incompetent and enjoy hurting the deer or extending their death, this man is an exception to that rule, he believes hunting licences should be much more difficult to obtain than they are, in this country anyway.
So.... yeah, it's not for me, but I believe that an animal who had good quality of life and died with no knowledge of what was happening to it, that is far more morally right than the horrifically mistreated animals in some factories. The lesser of two evils
Just let me give the pig a little hug first
While I am obviously on the opposite end of the spectrum, I can agree with you, at least so far as humans are concerned. Nature on the other hand, is far more cruel than most people would like to believe. For example, I once read something about how komodo Dragons kill water buffalo, as witnessed firsthand by a guy who ended up quitting nature documentary as a result. Basically, the dragon poisons the water buffalo with naturally occurring bacteria in it's mouth by biting, then follows it around for days to weeks waiting for it to become weak enough to consume whole. Makes chicken punching seem pretty tame in comparison.
Most people would argue "but that's just nature, that's how they eat". Fine. How do we know that humans aren't programmed to be just as sadistic when it comes to killing prey, and that those like you and I who would prefer humane deaths aren't the ones defying the natural course of things? We may possess the ability to reason things out, but that obviously doesn't exempt our entire species from doing some pretty twisted ****.
You are obviously one of the many who realize that you do what you do for personal feelings, and I can appreciate that. The ones I quarrel with are those that I have mentioned before: those that swear the Vegan diet can work miracles on the body, and that if everyone would just go Vegan, most of the world's problems would suddenly evaporate. They pay this lip service without taking one thing into account: just as we adapt to things, so to does the rest of the world. You know as well as I do what would happen if hunting of animals suddenly stopped today. It wouldn't be pretty for anyone, meat eater or otherwise.0 -
They could be far more excruciating but the death could also be perfectly natural, the slug could die in it's sleep from old age or I could accidentally step on it, my dog may even use it as a toy. that's a lot of what ifs, and it's a strange argument...one that I doubt can extract many sensible points...
I just try to keep any involvement on my part separated from the suffering of any other being. One aspect of general vegan opinion is a respect for animal welfare. I choose to abstain because it feels right for me personally in many, many ways. Upon educating myself of the realities on many farms by visiting local farms all through my life (I have not visited a slaughter house of ever witnessed an animal being killed, the farms were enough for me), I became vegetarian as a child and as my knowledge of happenings progressed and became more in tune with my adult emotions, progressing me towards becoming vegan through default.
I never see it as "can't eat that", but "I can't bring myself to consider this food". This was a natural feeling deep within me and I know that I personally could not consume anything contained within an animal. I'm not saying it's wrong, I am saying I feel it is wrong for me. This is my own explanation of my heart held beliefs and I'm award that is is over simplified and childlike by nature.
Now that I've slowly crept my way towards your question, for me to consider the idea of raising an animal for food, I know that I would sooner humanly kill myself than be able to raise a weapon to a pig, but I also accept that many people are capable of this. Truth be told, I can respect people who obtain their meat in this way. I have one close friend who hunts deer. He kills about 6 annually and this is his primary source of meat. This man will sit in the rain outside hunting season because he enjoys watching the deer in their environment, he has never needed more than one shot and assures me the deer never know what happened. I'm not going to pretend this idea doesn't upset me, it does. I can't fully comprehend it and would never want to bear witness, but myself and my friend have had many heated conversations where we both express extreme frustration and anger towards the meat industry. My friend is also a butcher, and doesn't buy any of the meat there because he can see signs that the animal was beaten before slaughter (I've suppressed the grisly details, but I seen raw chicken with deep bruises).
We also share the same opinions that many hunters are incompetent and enjoy hurting the deer or extending their death, this man is an exception to that rule, he believes hunting licences should be much more difficult to obtain than they are, in this country anyway.
So.... yeah, it's not for me, but I believe that an animal who had good quality of life and died with no knowledge of what was happening to it, that is far more morally right than the horrifically mistreated animals in some factories. The lesser of two evils
Just let me give the pig a little hug first
While I am obviously on the opposite end of the spectrum, I can agree with you, at least so far as humans are concerned. Nature on the other hand, is far more cruel than most people would like to believe. For example, I once read something about how komodo Dragons kill water buffalo, as witnessed firsthand by a guy who ended up quitting nature documentary as a result. Basically, the dragon poisons the water buffalo with naturally occurring bacteria in it's mouth by biting, then follows it around for days to weeks waiting for it to become weak enough to consume whole. Makes chicken punching seem pretty tame in comparison.
Most people would argue "but that's just nature, that's how they eat". Fine. How do we know that humans aren't programmed to be just as sadistic when it comes to killing prey, and that those like you and I who would prefer humane deaths aren't the ones defying the natural course of things? We may possess the ability to reason things out, but that obviously doesn't exempt our entire species from doing some pretty twisted ****.
You are obviously one of the many who realize that you do what you do for personal feelings, and I can appreciate that. The ones I quarrel with are those that I have mentioned before: those that swear the Vegan diet can work miracles on the body, and that if everyone would just go Vegan, most of the world's problems would suddenly evaporate. They pay this lip service without taking one thing into account: just as we adapt to things, so to does the rest of the world. You know as well as I do what would happen if hunting of animals suddenly stopped today. It wouldn't be pretty for anyone, meat eater or otherwise.
But it WOULD save the world. Just kidding dude. My rose tainted bubble is getting thinned with sad thoughts of reality
Nothing will save the world, nothing is supposed to be perfect, that would be boring. But I just kinda like my world and I'm staying here :drinker: Fun talking to you G, I'm outta food, peace :laugh:0 -
Nature on the other hand, is far more cruel than most people would like to believe.
Shark week.0 -
I was watching a video on youtube. Hodgetwins for that matter. Anyway, they mentioned something fasting and then referenced to be all sucked up like Vegans. Meaning their consumption of protein isn't as adequate as meat eats. It made me laugh pretty well due to most of the vegans I know are all small and frail. But yeah, who the fuuuunk cares what you eat? I'm vegetarian and it makes no difference to me how I consume my calories/ macros... just trying to build me some lean muscle.0
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It's been fun!
I promised another poster on here I'd read an article, then I have to go to my pro-man rally.
take care!
Edit- I have no issue with women disagreeing. The problem is anyone happens to not be very smart with their comments. In this case it happens to be a few women. Not my fault.
I seem to get along with other women on here fine. Just the ones that many other women - the ones that show passive aggressiveness I will say I really dislike. Which is what some of you are showing. I just decided to push it further by saying something I know would piss you (few) off. Just like you guys did. There is no difference. Now why don't you get in the kitchen and make some salad?
So this is what you mean by passive-aggressive and therefore worthy of your sexist comments purposefully stated to piss me off??DUDE I AM A VEGETARIAN
and my son is a vegan.
I was vegan for 11 years.
Don't assume just because someone doesn't agree with your logic that they haven't made the same ultimate choice in lifestyle.
ps. don't eat anything with "natural flavoring" if it is vanilla or raspberry flavored: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castoreum
For the record, when I got mad at you it was when you responded to this beautiful vegan's comment....
oh geez. this really gives vegans a bad name.
i'm in it for peace, love, equality for all beings. not to put down others.
i'm a vegan because i enjoy helping others, including animals to have a better life. my reason for being vegan is because i don't think anyone deserves to die for another's pleasure. survival is another story. i am vegan because i feel it's the least i can do to be the change i wish to see in the world. :flowerforyou:
so please, don't think all vegans are self righteous. and other vegans- please don't start these threads because they go nowhere.
with this garbage....
If you don't want people to think vegans are self righteous, then maybe reword your self righteous comments. I am eating this way because thats how we are designed to. Because I feel better this way than eating meat. I think if you're a carnivore, kill and eat the meat you need! Thats life. They go nowhere because trolls come in to do what they do best... troll.
I purposely wrote this knowing idiots would come in here pushing their ideas. Thats why I said "vegans and vegetarians". If you eat meat, then why would you come in here? just to cause trouble. Simple as that.
My gf, co-workers, best friends all eat meat. I never tell them it's crap for them b/c I occasionally will have some too... When they do comment on my diet I will set them straight with science and biology.
I think the info is good for vegans to know- those who do it "so i can help the environment" don't seem to get this.
I understand meat eating people's ideas. brainwashed for their entire lives. I am sure I'm brainwashed about other things, but I was able to listen to vegans, and really learn from them. The problem is many are not willing to accept that what they thought to be true their whole lives to be wrong. How did you think I felt when at 28, I realized my diet was not the "ideal" diet for my species. same ****.
Watch Jamie Oliver's food revolution. I feel like he does when he is trying to explain to those lunch ladies who are so close minded. Most people can't see that they are close minded, but if they see someone else being that way, they can, so go watch that show. fyi it's not about not eating meat. he makes chicken
And your constant posing as a vegetarian when you haven't even made the decision to be one.
Also, your entire argument has been debunked a million times. I've been an actual vegan long enough to know that there isn't sufficient evidence that humans were "intended" to not eat meat.
Also, "frugivores" do this:
http://youtu.be/kKn7IEDfkwk 0 -
Just a quick FYI:
Nature/evolution is not 'interested' in 'optimum nutrition' or strength training, world records or any such human constructs. Its only interest is reproduction. For a diet to be 'natural' or 'appropriate' all it needs to do is get you to reproductive age alive and fertile. The OP's information argues that we are naturally herbivores (I am sure there are holes in this argument, but no one on this thread has yet pointed them out clearly enough, that I've spotted), not that it is the optimum diet.
Personally, I really like the theory that cooking and eating meat is what grew our brains so big. I thank my ancestors for eating all that meat so I didn't have to (a third of my life so far omnivore, a third vegetarian, a third pescatarian...) :laugh:0 -
It's been fun!
I promised another poster on here I'd read an article, then I have to go to my pro-man rally.
take care!
Edit- I have no issue with women disagreeing. The problem is anyone happens to not be very smart with their comments. In this case it happens to be a few women. Not my fault.
I seem to get along with other women on here fine. Just the ones that many other women - the ones that show passive aggressiveness I will say I really dislike. Which is what some of you are showing. I just decided to push it further by saying something I know would piss you (few) off. Just like you guys did. There is no difference. Now why don't you get in the kitchen and make some salad?
Missed this little edit the first time around...sneaky...tut tut tut0 -
One question for the guy swearing that this is the 'proper' way to do things. How many world strength records are held by Vegans? The answer is none.
So, if this diet is the way that humans are 'supposed' to eat, why are they so physically inferior when they are eating this way? Granted, there are some strong guys out there who are Vegan, and I am not arguing that. What I am saying is that if this is the ideal diet, shouldn't Vegans be dominating their meat eating relatives in all sports? They're not...at all. In fact, they're not even close.
So, why?
What has vegetarianism have to do with holding world records for picking up heavy stuff? Being the person who can pick up the heaviest thing does not mean that person is the healthiest person in the world. Nor does it mean they are most physically fit. Given that vegetarians/vegans often choose their lifestyles out of a desire to not dominate/abuse animals, it would stand for reason they aren't very interested in "dominating their meat eating relatives", either. I question whether you posted on this thread simply to be antagonistic.0 -
They wouldn't have gotten enough calories from anything else. Twigs and berries aren't going to cut it.
Personally, I really like the theory that cooking and eating meat is what grew our brains so big. :laugh:0 -
Please - and this is spoken as a vegan - stop posting threads like this.0
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Goodness. I just spent the last hour (or so) reading this whole thread. Why did I just do that??? Anyways, I typed in 'vegan' into the search field b/c I am looking to meet friends that are and also looking to learn new things. Thanks for the first part of that! 0
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In before the lock!
Better suited to insult meat eaters in a private group rather than a public forum.
Besides, there is always Fancy Feast.
Oh....my....god....can't stop laughing...all I can get out of my mouth between cackles right now is "**** you!" xD
reposting thanks to trolls.0
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