My arms are skinny--increase volume?
Replies
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LolBroScience wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »A mere suggestion, that is all...damn..
It does seem to be a misunderstanding in my view since you thought she was trying to build and didn't understand the 531 program she was on. I think it's just time to let it go at that.
To OP, as you know I do the same program but I've decided this week to add a bi/forearm day to my abs after the leg day. I'll let you know how that works but since you hit your tris two days and bis only once I thought I would give it a try.
Your obviously a nice person, you can disagree with me without trying to make me feel like an ignorant idiot... You are right, I don't know much about this program, but my point the bicep and triceps are not large muscles, it doesn't take much time to blast them hard, I just don't see how this would interfere with that program..
It may not in reality but 531 is a four day, push/pull/lower split so you would have to be careful how you position a pure arms day. The split is push, pull, rest, push, leg, rest, rest. This means it would be hard to put triceps into any other day without interfering with one of the push days (assuming 48 hours rest required). Biceps can be put in on the 2nd rest day and not interfere so this is what I am trying. I wouldn't want to do triceps on a 3rd day so I work them on both push days.
Does this make sense?
You do need proper recovery, I guess you could add a bicep exercise or two on your pull day, and a triceps exercise on her push days.. I don't think it would interfere if she did the arm workout on
Saturday morning.. Maybe at first, but she will get accustomed to it after a while, the body can adapt.
True, it might be something she can try. She can read and respond tomorrow I don't want to speak for her but it might be an idea. I might try it next week and see what happens. I already work bisceps on my pull days so that gives me 2 bi/forearm and 2 tri but triceps can generally handle a bigger load. As long as it doesn't interfere with the bench it should work.
In terms of your argument, what exercise science evidence can you provide that shows that separation of pull/push foundation is more or less beneficial to hypertrophy growth and recovery.
You didn't actually read my posts or you wouldn't ask me about hypertrophy, now would you?
"You do need proper recovery, I guess you could add a bicep exercise or two on your pull day, and a triceps exercise on her push days.. I don't think it would interfere if she did the arm workout on Saturday morning."
I am making an inference on your previous statement on the separation of pull/ push exercises. I am assuming that you believe that rest time is necessary between the two forms. I am just curious, not necessarily trolling you or anything like that
What I was trying to say is that you didn't understand what I was pointing out since it's not a building program where hypertrophy is the over-riding factor. If I was on a building program then I would do different splits with higher volume per week on each muscle group.
I, and the OP, are on a powerlifting program and the rest time is longer for reason specific to the philosophy of training that encompass powerlifting. If I was to link to any current hypertrophy related articles I think you would find that volume per week is more important so if you want that you should be looking here:
hypertrophyspecific.com/hst_index.html
BTW no I didn't' think you were trolling, I just thought you were asking the wrong person.
"I have skinny arms and would love to make them bigger. I'd love to add more volume, but I'm completely squeezed for time (I have exactly 35 minutes to go to the gym each day, which is just enough time to get the big muscle groups each time). I've been lifting for a few years and am currently in the middle of my second bulk."
This girl doesn't know what she wants, and her programming and goal setting reflects it. She has this specific "spot training" (myth) goal from what I can interpret, which is kind of unhealthy even from an aesthetic standpoint. Just curious, what happens when you hit a plateau in powerlifting from a programming standpoint?
How is wanting bigger arms mentally unhealthy? It's not as is she is obsessing over it and testing "add in inch to your arms in 24 hours" routines.
It is mentally unhealthy when the goal is not precise and clear. The goal was to grow bigger arms. By how much? By when? How? Goals have to be clear and precise. If this was a business practice, I do not simply state that I want to make lots of money, as this does not give clear and precise directions on how to achieve said goal. It's unhealthy for a business to conduct daily operations without knowing what it wants to achieve. The same could be said for an aesthetic goal of building bigger arms, because you could be doing things that are not aligned with what you are wanting to achieve. I was being facetious when I mentioned synthol, because the stated goal, again, is not clear nor precise)
*Just curious, what happens when you hit a plateau in powerlifting from a programming standpoint?
It's obvious you must change variables, but I was wanting more specifics on how power lifters go about breaking plateaus from a programming standpoint. Is there a common system that power lifters go about in altering their programs?
This is an honest question....... do you even lift? Seriously. Do you? Because it doesn't look like you do.
Hmm, I do lift Here's some of the workouts I perform. For kicks and giggles, I'm also working on an iron cross
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/1334317/fun-fun-workouts-what-do-you-think#latest
So you worked out 8 times in 6 months. Got it
Na, I'm a little crazy with this stuff. I go about 5 times a week. 5 weeks straight, 1 week rest. 6 am. Cardio every other day. Boxing on alternating days. And I do marathons, which you are welcome to join me for.
I don't typically post workouts, as it takes time. My friends ask me to post sometimes, and if I'm on, I'll post my daily workout routine.
But you'll have my respect if you're able to do anyone of those workouts with ease0 -
LolBroScience wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »A mere suggestion, that is all...damn..
It does seem to be a misunderstanding in my view since you thought she was trying to build and didn't understand the 531 program she was on. I think it's just time to let it go at that.
To OP, as you know I do the same program but I've decided this week to add a bi/forearm day to my abs after the leg day. I'll let you know how that works but since you hit your tris two days and bis only once I thought I would give it a try.
Your obviously a nice person, you can disagree with me without trying to make me feel like an ignorant idiot... You are right, I don't know much about this program, but my point the bicep and triceps are not large muscles, it doesn't take much time to blast them hard, I just don't see how this would interfere with that program..
It may not in reality but 531 is a four day, push/pull/lower split so you would have to be careful how you position a pure arms day. The split is push, pull, rest, push, leg, rest, rest. This means it would be hard to put triceps into any other day without interfering with one of the push days (assuming 48 hours rest required). Biceps can be put in on the 2nd rest day and not interfere so this is what I am trying. I wouldn't want to do triceps on a 3rd day so I work them on both push days.
Does this make sense?
You do need proper recovery, I guess you could add a bicep exercise or two on your pull day, and a triceps exercise on her push days.. I don't think it would interfere if she did the arm workout on
Saturday morning.. Maybe at first, but she will get accustomed to it after a while, the body can adapt.
True, it might be something she can try. She can read and respond tomorrow I don't want to speak for her but it might be an idea. I might try it next week and see what happens. I already work bisceps on my pull days so that gives me 2 bi/forearm and 2 tri but triceps can generally handle a bigger load. As long as it doesn't interfere with the bench it should work.
In terms of your argument, what exercise science evidence can you provide that shows that separation of pull/push foundation is more or less beneficial to hypertrophy growth and recovery.
You didn't actually read my posts or you wouldn't ask me about hypertrophy, now would you?
"You do need proper recovery, I guess you could add a bicep exercise or two on your pull day, and a triceps exercise on her push days.. I don't think it would interfere if she did the arm workout on Saturday morning."
I am making an inference on your previous statement on the separation of pull/ push exercises. I am assuming that you believe that rest time is necessary between the two forms. I am just curious, not necessarily trolling you or anything like that
What I was trying to say is that you didn't understand what I was pointing out since it's not a building program where hypertrophy is the over-riding factor. If I was on a building program then I would do different splits with higher volume per week on each muscle group.
I, and the OP, are on a powerlifting program and the rest time is longer for reason specific to the philosophy of training that encompass powerlifting. If I was to link to any current hypertrophy related articles I think you would find that volume per week is more important so if you want that you should be looking here:
hypertrophyspecific.com/hst_index.html
BTW no I didn't' think you were trolling, I just thought you were asking the wrong person.
"I have skinny arms and would love to make them bigger. I'd love to add more volume, but I'm completely squeezed for time (I have exactly 35 minutes to go to the gym each day, which is just enough time to get the big muscle groups each time). I've been lifting for a few years and am currently in the middle of my second bulk."
This girl doesn't know what she wants, and her programming and goal setting reflects it. She has this specific "spot training" (myth) goal from what I can interpret, which is kind of unhealthy even from an aesthetic standpoint. Just curious, what happens when you hit a plateau in powerlifting from a programming standpoint?
How is wanting bigger arms mentally unhealthy? It's not as is she is obsessing over it and testing "add in inch to your arms in 24 hours" routines.
It is mentally unhealthy when the goal is not precise and clear. The goal was to grow bigger arms. By how much? By when? How? Goals have to be clear and precise. If this was a business practice, I do not simply state that I want to make lots of money, as this does not give clear and precise directions on how to achieve said goal. It's unhealthy for a business to conduct daily operations without knowing what it wants to achieve. The same could be said for an aesthetic goal of building bigger arms, because you could be doing things that are not aligned with what you are wanting to achieve. I was being facetious when I mentioned synthol, because the stated goal, again, is not clear nor precise)
*Just curious, what happens when you hit a plateau in powerlifting from a programming standpoint?
It's obvious you must change variables, but I was wanting more specifics on how power lifters go about breaking plateaus from a programming standpoint. Is there a common system that power lifters go about in altering their programs?
Seriously, man? I want 80" arms. I mean, really, I just want my arms a little bigger and more proportionate to the rest of my body. Don't be ridiculous.
I'm following Wendler's 5/3/1 for programming...if you knew anything about power lifting or that program specifically (Google is your friend here), you'd know that Wendler's has a very specific protocol for getting past stalls.
I just want my arms a little bigger and more proportionate to the rest of my body.
You've illustrated my point with your previous statement. What does a little bigger mean? Have you taken a measuring tape of your current arm size? What is the ideal arm size you are wanting? When do you want to have this arm size?
I'm following Wendler's 5/3/1 for programming...if you knew anything about power lifting or that program specifically (Google is your friend here), you'd know that Wendler's has a very specific protocol for getting past stalls
I don't know anything about power lifting, so that's why I asked. And yes, I could totally google it, but I figured that someone practicing powerlifting would have an idea.
I've stated before in this thread (reading comprehension would help you) that my biceps are 11". I can't give an actual goal number because I don't know what specific girth will look proportionate. Specific doesn't need to be a number.0 -
LolBroScience wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »A mere suggestion, that is all...damn..
It does seem to be a misunderstanding in my view since you thought she was trying to build and didn't understand the 531 program she was on. I think it's just time to let it go at that.
To OP, as you know I do the same program but I've decided this week to add a bi/forearm day to my abs after the leg day. I'll let you know how that works but since you hit your tris two days and bis only once I thought I would give it a try.
Your obviously a nice person, you can disagree with me without trying to make me feel like an ignorant idiot... You are right, I don't know much about this program, but my point the bicep and triceps are not large muscles, it doesn't take much time to blast them hard, I just don't see how this would interfere with that program..
It may not in reality but 531 is a four day, push/pull/lower split so you would have to be careful how you position a pure arms day. The split is push, pull, rest, push, leg, rest, rest. This means it would be hard to put triceps into any other day without interfering with one of the push days (assuming 48 hours rest required). Biceps can be put in on the 2nd rest day and not interfere so this is what I am trying. I wouldn't want to do triceps on a 3rd day so I work them on both push days.
Does this make sense?
You do need proper recovery, I guess you could add a bicep exercise or two on your pull day, and a triceps exercise on her push days.. I don't think it would interfere if she did the arm workout on
Saturday morning.. Maybe at first, but she will get accustomed to it after a while, the body can adapt.
True, it might be something she can try. She can read and respond tomorrow I don't want to speak for her but it might be an idea. I might try it next week and see what happens. I already work bisceps on my pull days so that gives me 2 bi/forearm and 2 tri but triceps can generally handle a bigger load. As long as it doesn't interfere with the bench it should work.
In terms of your argument, what exercise science evidence can you provide that shows that separation of pull/push foundation is more or less beneficial to hypertrophy growth and recovery.
You didn't actually read my posts or you wouldn't ask me about hypertrophy, now would you?
"You do need proper recovery, I guess you could add a bicep exercise or two on your pull day, and a triceps exercise on her push days.. I don't think it would interfere if she did the arm workout on Saturday morning."
I am making an inference on your previous statement on the separation of pull/ push exercises. I am assuming that you believe that rest time is necessary between the two forms. I am just curious, not necessarily trolling you or anything like that
What I was trying to say is that you didn't understand what I was pointing out since it's not a building program where hypertrophy is the over-riding factor. If I was on a building program then I would do different splits with higher volume per week on each muscle group.
I, and the OP, are on a powerlifting program and the rest time is longer for reason specific to the philosophy of training that encompass powerlifting. If I was to link to any current hypertrophy related articles I think you would find that volume per week is more important so if you want that you should be looking here:
hypertrophyspecific.com/hst_index.html
BTW no I didn't' think you were trolling, I just thought you were asking the wrong person.
"I have skinny arms and would love to make them bigger. I'd love to add more volume, but I'm completely squeezed for time (I have exactly 35 minutes to go to the gym each day, which is just enough time to get the big muscle groups each time). I've been lifting for a few years and am currently in the middle of my second bulk."
This girl doesn't know what she wants, and her programming and goal setting reflects it. She has this specific "spot training" (myth) goal from what I can interpret, which is kind of unhealthy even from an aesthetic standpoint. Just curious, what happens when you hit a plateau in powerlifting from a programming standpoint?
How is wanting bigger arms mentally unhealthy? It's not as is she is obsessing over it and testing "add in inch to your arms in 24 hours" routines.
It is mentally unhealthy when the goal is not precise and clear. The goal was to grow bigger arms. By how much? By when? How? Goals have to be clear and precise. If this was a business practice, I do not simply state that I want to make lots of money, as this does not give clear and precise directions on how to achieve said goal. It's unhealthy for a business to conduct daily operations without knowing what it wants to achieve. The same could be said for an aesthetic goal of building bigger arms, because you could be doing things that are not aligned with what you are wanting to achieve. I was being facetious when I mentioned synthol, because the stated goal, again, is not clear nor precise)
*Just curious, what happens when you hit a plateau in powerlifting from a programming standpoint?
It's obvious you must change variables, but I was wanting more specifics on how power lifters go about breaking plateaus from a programming standpoint. Is there a common system that power lifters go about in altering their programs?
Seriously, man? I want 80" arms. I mean, really, I just want my arms a little bigger and more proportionate to the rest of my body. Don't be ridiculous.
I'm following Wendler's 5/3/1 for programming...if you knew anything about power lifting or that program specifically (Google is your friend here), you'd know that Wendler's has a very specific protocol for getting past stalls.
I just want my arms a little bigger and more proportionate to the rest of my body.
You've illustrated my point with your previous statement. What does a little bigger mean? Have you taken a measuring tape of your current arm size? What is the ideal arm size you are wanting? When do you want to have this arm size?
I'm following Wendler's 5/3/1 for programming...if you knew anything about power lifting or that program specifically (Google is your friend here), you'd know that Wendler's has a very specific protocol for getting past stalls
I don't know anything about power lifting, so that's why I asked. And yes, I could totally google it, but I figured that someone practicing powerlifting would have an idea.
I've stated before in this thread (reading comprehension would help you) that my biceps are 11". I can't give an actual goal number because I don't know what specific girth will look proportionate. Specific doesn't need to be a number.
You need to be specific number-wise for this particular goal, because proportionate is ambiguous. I'd be embarrassed to walk up to Mark Rippetoe and tell him "I want to be proportionate", because he's going be like "wtf does that mean?". Just choose an arm size that might work for you. Even if it's an unrealistic number that you probably won't hit, you can gauge your progress based on that specific goal, and you can determine whether you succeeding or failing in that manner.
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LolBroScience wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »A mere suggestion, that is all...damn..
It does seem to be a misunderstanding in my view since you thought she was trying to build and didn't understand the 531 program she was on. I think it's just time to let it go at that.
To OP, as you know I do the same program but I've decided this week to add a bi/forearm day to my abs after the leg day. I'll let you know how that works but since you hit your tris two days and bis only once I thought I would give it a try.
Your obviously a nice person, you can disagree with me without trying to make me feel like an ignorant idiot... You are right, I don't know much about this program, but my point the bicep and triceps are not large muscles, it doesn't take much time to blast them hard, I just don't see how this would interfere with that program..
It may not in reality but 531 is a four day, push/pull/lower split so you would have to be careful how you position a pure arms day. The split is push, pull, rest, push, leg, rest, rest. This means it would be hard to put triceps into any other day without interfering with one of the push days (assuming 48 hours rest required). Biceps can be put in on the 2nd rest day and not interfere so this is what I am trying. I wouldn't want to do triceps on a 3rd day so I work them on both push days.
Does this make sense?
You do need proper recovery, I guess you could add a bicep exercise or two on your pull day, and a triceps exercise on her push days.. I don't think it would interfere if she did the arm workout on
Saturday morning.. Maybe at first, but she will get accustomed to it after a while, the body can adapt.
True, it might be something she can try. She can read and respond tomorrow I don't want to speak for her but it might be an idea. I might try it next week and see what happens. I already work bisceps on my pull days so that gives me 2 bi/forearm and 2 tri but triceps can generally handle a bigger load. As long as it doesn't interfere with the bench it should work.
In terms of your argument, what exercise science evidence can you provide that shows that separation of pull/push foundation is more or less beneficial to hypertrophy growth and recovery.
You didn't actually read my posts or you wouldn't ask me about hypertrophy, now would you?
"You do need proper recovery, I guess you could add a bicep exercise or two on your pull day, and a triceps exercise on her push days.. I don't think it would interfere if she did the arm workout on Saturday morning."
I am making an inference on your previous statement on the separation of pull/ push exercises. I am assuming that you believe that rest time is necessary between the two forms. I am just curious, not necessarily trolling you or anything like that
What I was trying to say is that you didn't understand what I was pointing out since it's not a building program where hypertrophy is the over-riding factor. If I was on a building program then I would do different splits with higher volume per week on each muscle group.
I, and the OP, are on a powerlifting program and the rest time is longer for reason specific to the philosophy of training that encompass powerlifting. If I was to link to any current hypertrophy related articles I think you would find that volume per week is more important so if you want that you should be looking here:
hypertrophyspecific.com/hst_index.html
BTW no I didn't' think you were trolling, I just thought you were asking the wrong person.
"I have skinny arms and would love to make them bigger. I'd love to add more volume, but I'm completely squeezed for time (I have exactly 35 minutes to go to the gym each day, which is just enough time to get the big muscle groups each time). I've been lifting for a few years and am currently in the middle of my second bulk."
This girl doesn't know what she wants, and her programming and goal setting reflects it. She has this specific "spot training" (myth) goal from what I can interpret, which is kind of unhealthy even from an aesthetic standpoint. Just curious, what happens when you hit a plateau in powerlifting from a programming standpoint?
How is wanting bigger arms mentally unhealthy? It's not as is she is obsessing over it and testing "add in inch to your arms in 24 hours" routines.
It is mentally unhealthy when the goal is not precise and clear. The goal was to grow bigger arms. By how much? By when? How? Goals have to be clear and precise. If this was a business practice, I do not simply state that I want to make lots of money, as this does not give clear and precise directions on how to achieve said goal. It's unhealthy for a business to conduct daily operations without knowing what it wants to achieve. The same could be said for an aesthetic goal of building bigger arms, because you could be doing things that are not aligned with what you are wanting to achieve. I was being facetious when I mentioned synthol, because the stated goal, again, is not clear nor precise)
*Just curious, what happens when you hit a plateau in powerlifting from a programming standpoint?
It's obvious you must change variables, but I was wanting more specifics on how power lifters go about breaking plateaus from a programming standpoint. Is there a common system that power lifters go about in altering their programs?
This is an honest question....... do you even lift? Seriously. Do you? Because it doesn't look like you do.
Hmm, I do lift Here's some of the workouts I perform. For kicks and giggles, I'm also working on an iron cross
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/1334317/fun-fun-workouts-what-do-you-think#latest
So you worked out 8 times in 6 months. Got it
Na, I'm a little crazy with this stuff. I go about 5 times a week. 5 weeks straight, 1 week rest. 6 am. Cardio every other day. Boxing on alternating days. And I do marathons, which you are welcome to join me for.
I don't typically post workouts, as it takes time. My friends ask me to post sometimes, and if I'm on, I'll post my daily workout routine.
But you'll have my respect if you're able to do anyone of those workouts with ease
So these are xfit WODs then? Have you considered a progressive program rather than the random scatter? If you are trying to build then xfit isn't optimal, also why would any of us do random WODs? Anyone can throw together a bunch of exercises that can kick anyone's butt but that doesn't make it relevant to our goals.0 -
LolBroScience wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »A mere suggestion, that is all...damn..
It does seem to be a misunderstanding in my view since you thought she was trying to build and didn't understand the 531 program she was on. I think it's just time to let it go at that.
To OP, as you know I do the same program but I've decided this week to add a bi/forearm day to my abs after the leg day. I'll let you know how that works but since you hit your tris two days and bis only once I thought I would give it a try.
Your obviously a nice person, you can disagree with me without trying to make me feel like an ignorant idiot... You are right, I don't know much about this program, but my point the bicep and triceps are not large muscles, it doesn't take much time to blast them hard, I just don't see how this would interfere with that program..
It may not in reality but 531 is a four day, push/pull/lower split so you would have to be careful how you position a pure arms day. The split is push, pull, rest, push, leg, rest, rest. This means it would be hard to put triceps into any other day without interfering with one of the push days (assuming 48 hours rest required). Biceps can be put in on the 2nd rest day and not interfere so this is what I am trying. I wouldn't want to do triceps on a 3rd day so I work them on both push days.
Does this make sense?
You do need proper recovery, I guess you could add a bicep exercise or two on your pull day, and a triceps exercise on her push days.. I don't think it would interfere if she did the arm workout on
Saturday morning.. Maybe at first, but she will get accustomed to it after a while, the body can adapt.
True, it might be something she can try. She can read and respond tomorrow I don't want to speak for her but it might be an idea. I might try it next week and see what happens. I already work bisceps on my pull days so that gives me 2 bi/forearm and 2 tri but triceps can generally handle a bigger load. As long as it doesn't interfere with the bench it should work.
In terms of your argument, what exercise science evidence can you provide that shows that separation of pull/push foundation is more or less beneficial to hypertrophy growth and recovery.
You didn't actually read my posts or you wouldn't ask me about hypertrophy, now would you?
"You do need proper recovery, I guess you could add a bicep exercise or two on your pull day, and a triceps exercise on her push days.. I don't think it would interfere if she did the arm workout on Saturday morning."
I am making an inference on your previous statement on the separation of pull/ push exercises. I am assuming that you believe that rest time is necessary between the two forms. I am just curious, not necessarily trolling you or anything like that
What I was trying to say is that you didn't understand what I was pointing out since it's not a building program where hypertrophy is the over-riding factor. If I was on a building program then I would do different splits with higher volume per week on each muscle group.
I, and the OP, are on a powerlifting program and the rest time is longer for reason specific to the philosophy of training that encompass powerlifting. If I was to link to any current hypertrophy related articles I think you would find that volume per week is more important so if you want that you should be looking here:
hypertrophyspecific.com/hst_index.html
BTW no I didn't' think you were trolling, I just thought you were asking the wrong person.
"I have skinny arms and would love to make them bigger. I'd love to add more volume, but I'm completely squeezed for time (I have exactly 35 minutes to go to the gym each day, which is just enough time to get the big muscle groups each time). I've been lifting for a few years and am currently in the middle of my second bulk."
This girl doesn't know what she wants, and her programming and goal setting reflects it. She has this specific "spot training" (myth) goal from what I can interpret, which is kind of unhealthy even from an aesthetic standpoint. Just curious, what happens when you hit a plateau in powerlifting from a programming standpoint?
How is wanting bigger arms mentally unhealthy? It's not as is she is obsessing over it and testing "add in inch to your arms in 24 hours" routines.
It is mentally unhealthy when the goal is not precise and clear. The goal was to grow bigger arms. By how much? By when? How? Goals have to be clear and precise. If this was a business practice, I do not simply state that I want to make lots of money, as this does not give clear and precise directions on how to achieve said goal. It's unhealthy for a business to conduct daily operations without knowing what it wants to achieve. The same could be said for an aesthetic goal of building bigger arms, because you could be doing things that are not aligned with what you are wanting to achieve. I was being facetious when I mentioned synthol, because the stated goal, again, is not clear nor precise)
*Just curious, what happens when you hit a plateau in powerlifting from a programming standpoint?
It's obvious you must change variables, but I was wanting more specifics on how power lifters go about breaking plateaus from a programming standpoint. Is there a common system that power lifters go about in altering their programs?
Seriously, man? I want 80" arms. I mean, really, I just want my arms a little bigger and more proportionate to the rest of my body. Don't be ridiculous.
I'm following Wendler's 5/3/1 for programming...if you knew anything about power lifting or that program specifically (Google is your friend here), you'd know that Wendler's has a very specific protocol for getting past stalls.
I just want my arms a little bigger and more proportionate to the rest of my body.
You've illustrated my point with your previous statement. What does a little bigger mean? Have you taken a measuring tape of your current arm size? What is the ideal arm size you are wanting? When do you want to have this arm size?
I'm following Wendler's 5/3/1 for programming...if you knew anything about power lifting or that program specifically (Google is your friend here), you'd know that Wendler's has a very specific protocol for getting past stalls
I don't know anything about power lifting, so that's why I asked. And yes, I could totally google it, but I figured that someone practicing powerlifting would have an idea.
I've stated before in this thread (reading comprehension would help you) that my biceps are 11". I can't give an actual goal number because I don't know what specific girth will look proportionate. Specific doesn't need to be a number.
You need to be specific number-wise for this particular goal, because proportionate is ambiguous. I'd be embarrassed to walk up to Mark Rippetoe and tell him "I want to be proportionate", because he's going be like "wtf does that mean?". Just choose an arm size that might work for you. Even if it's an unrealistic number that you probably won't hit, you can gauge your progress based on that specific goal, and you can determine whether you succeeding or failing in that manner.
This is silly.
If I decide I want my legs to grow, I don't need to know what size I want them to be. In fact, most people don't know because they don't have any idea what a 1" gain in muscle will look like.
You can simply do the things required for growth and monitor what your arms look like. If you want, you can measure them to see what size they are as they grow.
And then you can stop when you're satisfied, without ever saying "I want to add exactly 1.5 inches to my arms".0 -
Wheelhouse15 wrote: »LolBroScience wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »A mere suggestion, that is all...damn..
It does seem to be a misunderstanding in my view since you thought she was trying to build and didn't understand the 531 program she was on. I think it's just time to let it go at that.
To OP, as you know I do the same program but I've decided this week to add a bi/forearm day to my abs after the leg day. I'll let you know how that works but since you hit your tris two days and bis only once I thought I would give it a try.
Your obviously a nice person, you can disagree with me without trying to make me feel like an ignorant idiot... You are right, I don't know much about this program, but my point the bicep and triceps are not large muscles, it doesn't take much time to blast them hard, I just don't see how this would interfere with that program..
It may not in reality but 531 is a four day, push/pull/lower split so you would have to be careful how you position a pure arms day. The split is push, pull, rest, push, leg, rest, rest. This means it would be hard to put triceps into any other day without interfering with one of the push days (assuming 48 hours rest required). Biceps can be put in on the 2nd rest day and not interfere so this is what I am trying. I wouldn't want to do triceps on a 3rd day so I work them on both push days.
Does this make sense?
You do need proper recovery, I guess you could add a bicep exercise or two on your pull day, and a triceps exercise on her push days.. I don't think it would interfere if she did the arm workout on
Saturday morning.. Maybe at first, but she will get accustomed to it after a while, the body can adapt.
True, it might be something she can try. She can read and respond tomorrow I don't want to speak for her but it might be an idea. I might try it next week and see what happens. I already work bisceps on my pull days so that gives me 2 bi/forearm and 2 tri but triceps can generally handle a bigger load. As long as it doesn't interfere with the bench it should work.
In terms of your argument, what exercise science evidence can you provide that shows that separation of pull/push foundation is more or less beneficial to hypertrophy growth and recovery.
You didn't actually read my posts or you wouldn't ask me about hypertrophy, now would you?
"You do need proper recovery, I guess you could add a bicep exercise or two on your pull day, and a triceps exercise on her push days.. I don't think it would interfere if she did the arm workout on Saturday morning."
I am making an inference on your previous statement on the separation of pull/ push exercises. I am assuming that you believe that rest time is necessary between the two forms. I am just curious, not necessarily trolling you or anything like that
What I was trying to say is that you didn't understand what I was pointing out since it's not a building program where hypertrophy is the over-riding factor. If I was on a building program then I would do different splits with higher volume per week on each muscle group.
I, and the OP, are on a powerlifting program and the rest time is longer for reason specific to the philosophy of training that encompass powerlifting. If I was to link to any current hypertrophy related articles I think you would find that volume per week is more important so if you want that you should be looking here:
hypertrophyspecific.com/hst_index.html
BTW no I didn't' think you were trolling, I just thought you were asking the wrong person.
"I have skinny arms and would love to make them bigger. I'd love to add more volume, but I'm completely squeezed for time (I have exactly 35 minutes to go to the gym each day, which is just enough time to get the big muscle groups each time). I've been lifting for a few years and am currently in the middle of my second bulk."
This girl doesn't know what she wants, and her programming and goal setting reflects it. She has this specific "spot training" (myth) goal from what I can interpret, which is kind of unhealthy even from an aesthetic standpoint. Just curious, what happens when you hit a plateau in powerlifting from a programming standpoint?
How is wanting bigger arms mentally unhealthy? It's not as is she is obsessing over it and testing "add in inch to your arms in 24 hours" routines.
It is mentally unhealthy when the goal is not precise and clear. The goal was to grow bigger arms. By how much? By when? How? Goals have to be clear and precise. If this was a business practice, I do not simply state that I want to make lots of money, as this does not give clear and precise directions on how to achieve said goal. It's unhealthy for a business to conduct daily operations without knowing what it wants to achieve. The same could be said for an aesthetic goal of building bigger arms, because you could be doing things that are not aligned with what you are wanting to achieve. I was being facetious when I mentioned synthol, because the stated goal, again, is not clear nor precise)
*Just curious, what happens when you hit a plateau in powerlifting from a programming standpoint?
It's obvious you must change variables, but I was wanting more specifics on how power lifters go about breaking plateaus from a programming standpoint. Is there a common system that power lifters go about in altering their programs?
This is an honest question....... do you even lift? Seriously. Do you? Because it doesn't look like you do.
Hmm, I do lift Here's some of the workouts I perform. For kicks and giggles, I'm also working on an iron cross
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/1334317/fun-fun-workouts-what-do-you-think#latest
So you worked out 8 times in 6 months. Got it
Na, I'm a little crazy with this stuff. I go about 5 times a week. 5 weeks straight, 1 week rest. 6 am. Cardio every other day. Boxing on alternating days. And I do marathons, which you are welcome to join me for.
I don't typically post workouts, as it takes time. My friends ask me to post sometimes, and if I'm on, I'll post my daily workout routine.
But you'll have my respect if you're able to do anyone of those workouts with ease
So these are xfit WODs then? Have you considered a progressive program rather than the random scatter? If you are trying to build then xfit isn't optimal, also why would any of us do random WODs? Anyone can throw together a bunch of exercises that can kick anyone's butt but that doesn't make it relevant to our goals.
Have you seen my previous posts on crossfit? lol I AM NO CROSSFITTER. I make fun of crossfit. Crossfit needs to die. period. Have you seen kipping?
You have a small understanding of my personal goals and fitness programing. You also cannot base progression on what, like 7 workouts that I've posted with no data about weight intensity, duration, nor time frame. For all you know, these could have been workouts I've logged over years of training.
Also why would you do my workouts? The Hispanic dude wanted to know if I "worked out", so I assumed he wanted see my workouts
0 -
LolBroScience wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »A mere suggestion, that is all...damn..
It does seem to be a misunderstanding in my view since you thought she was trying to build and didn't understand the 531 program she was on. I think it's just time to let it go at that.
To OP, as you know I do the same program but I've decided this week to add a bi/forearm day to my abs after the leg day. I'll let you know how that works but since you hit your tris two days and bis only once I thought I would give it a try.
Your obviously a nice person, you can disagree with me without trying to make me feel like an ignorant idiot... You are right, I don't know much about this program, but my point the bicep and triceps are not large muscles, it doesn't take much time to blast them hard, I just don't see how this would interfere with that program..
It may not in reality but 531 is a four day, push/pull/lower split so you would have to be careful how you position a pure arms day. The split is push, pull, rest, push, leg, rest, rest. This means it would be hard to put triceps into any other day without interfering with one of the push days (assuming 48 hours rest required). Biceps can be put in on the 2nd rest day and not interfere so this is what I am trying. I wouldn't want to do triceps on a 3rd day so I work them on both push days.
Does this make sense?
You do need proper recovery, I guess you could add a bicep exercise or two on your pull day, and a triceps exercise on her push days.. I don't think it would interfere if she did the arm workout on
Saturday morning.. Maybe at first, but she will get accustomed to it after a while, the body can adapt.
True, it might be something she can try. She can read and respond tomorrow I don't want to speak for her but it might be an idea. I might try it next week and see what happens. I already work bisceps on my pull days so that gives me 2 bi/forearm and 2 tri but triceps can generally handle a bigger load. As long as it doesn't interfere with the bench it should work.
In terms of your argument, what exercise science evidence can you provide that shows that separation of pull/push foundation is more or less beneficial to hypertrophy growth and recovery.
You didn't actually read my posts or you wouldn't ask me about hypertrophy, now would you?
"You do need proper recovery, I guess you could add a bicep exercise or two on your pull day, and a triceps exercise on her push days.. I don't think it would interfere if she did the arm workout on Saturday morning."
I am making an inference on your previous statement on the separation of pull/ push exercises. I am assuming that you believe that rest time is necessary between the two forms. I am just curious, not necessarily trolling you or anything like that
What I was trying to say is that you didn't understand what I was pointing out since it's not a building program where hypertrophy is the over-riding factor. If I was on a building program then I would do different splits with higher volume per week on each muscle group.
I, and the OP, are on a powerlifting program and the rest time is longer for reason specific to the philosophy of training that encompass powerlifting. If I was to link to any current hypertrophy related articles I think you would find that volume per week is more important so if you want that you should be looking here:
hypertrophyspecific.com/hst_index.html
BTW no I didn't' think you were trolling, I just thought you were asking the wrong person.
"I have skinny arms and would love to make them bigger. I'd love to add more volume, but I'm completely squeezed for time (I have exactly 35 minutes to go to the gym each day, which is just enough time to get the big muscle groups each time). I've been lifting for a few years and am currently in the middle of my second bulk."
This girl doesn't know what she wants, and her programming and goal setting reflects it. She has this specific "spot training" (myth) goal from what I can interpret, which is kind of unhealthy even from an aesthetic standpoint. Just curious, what happens when you hit a plateau in powerlifting from a programming standpoint?
How is wanting bigger arms mentally unhealthy? It's not as is she is obsessing over it and testing "add in inch to your arms in 24 hours" routines.
It is mentally unhealthy when the goal is not precise and clear. The goal was to grow bigger arms. By how much? By when? How? Goals have to be clear and precise. If this was a business practice, I do not simply state that I want to make lots of money, as this does not give clear and precise directions on how to achieve said goal. It's unhealthy for a business to conduct daily operations without knowing what it wants to achieve. The same could be said for an aesthetic goal of building bigger arms, because you could be doing things that are not aligned with what you are wanting to achieve. I was being facetious when I mentioned synthol, because the stated goal, again, is not clear nor precise)
*Just curious, what happens when you hit a plateau in powerlifting from a programming standpoint?
It's obvious you must change variables, but I was wanting more specifics on how power lifters go about breaking plateaus from a programming standpoint. Is there a common system that power lifters go about in altering their programs?
Seriously, man? I want 80" arms. I mean, really, I just want my arms a little bigger and more proportionate to the rest of my body. Don't be ridiculous.
I'm following Wendler's 5/3/1 for programming...if you knew anything about power lifting or that program specifically (Google is your friend here), you'd know that Wendler's has a very specific protocol for getting past stalls.
I just want my arms a little bigger and more proportionate to the rest of my body.
You've illustrated my point with your previous statement. What does a little bigger mean? Have you taken a measuring tape of your current arm size? What is the ideal arm size you are wanting? When do you want to have this arm size?
I'm following Wendler's 5/3/1 for programming...if you knew anything about power lifting or that program specifically (Google is your friend here), you'd know that Wendler's has a very specific protocol for getting past stalls
I don't know anything about power lifting, so that's why I asked. And yes, I could totally google it, but I figured that someone practicing powerlifting would have an idea.
I've stated before in this thread (reading comprehension would help you) that my biceps are 11". I can't give an actual goal number because I don't know what specific girth will look proportionate. Specific doesn't need to be a number.
You need to be specific number-wise for this particular goal, because proportionate is ambiguous. I'd be embarrassed to walk up to Mark Rippetoe and tell him "I want to be proportionate", because he's going be like "wtf does that mean?". Just choose an arm size that might work for you. Even if it's an unrealistic number that you probably won't hit, you can gauge your progress based on that specific goal, and you can determine whether you succeeding or failing in that manner.
This is silly.
If I decide I want my legs to grow, I don't need to know what size I want them to be. In fact, most people don't know because they don't have any idea what a 1" gain in muscle will look like.
You can simply do the things required for growth and monitor what your arms look like. If you want, you can measure them to see what size they are as they grow.
And then you can stop when you're satisfied, without ever saying "I want to add exactly 1.5 inches to my arms".
Not to insult you, It is silly for novices and amateurs because goal setting is not a high priority or risk. Whereas, If you're a serious performance athlete, then goals need to more much more clearer and concrete.0 -
I cannot justify why any unclear goal will make your life healthier, but I'm assuming that's your position/opinion when you say that having clear and concise goals is dumb, correct?LolBroScience wrote: »
No, my position is that it is dumb to label not having a clearly defined goal as "mentally unhealthy". That is dumb.
Easier may be a more appropriate word choice, but not unhealthy. It is in no way, shape, or form, harmful to the OP.0 -
LolBroScience wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »A mere suggestion, that is all...damn..
It does seem to be a misunderstanding in my view since you thought she was trying to build and didn't understand the 531 program she was on. I think it's just time to let it go at that.
To OP, as you know I do the same program but I've decided this week to add a bi/forearm day to my abs after the leg day. I'll let you know how that works but since you hit your tris two days and bis only once I thought I would give it a try.
Your obviously a nice person, you can disagree with me without trying to make me feel like an ignorant idiot... You are right, I don't know much about this program, but my point the bicep and triceps are not large muscles, it doesn't take much time to blast them hard, I just don't see how this would interfere with that program..
It may not in reality but 531 is a four day, push/pull/lower split so you would have to be careful how you position a pure arms day. The split is push, pull, rest, push, leg, rest, rest. This means it would be hard to put triceps into any other day without interfering with one of the push days (assuming 48 hours rest required). Biceps can be put in on the 2nd rest day and not interfere so this is what I am trying. I wouldn't want to do triceps on a 3rd day so I work them on both push days.
Does this make sense?
You do need proper recovery, I guess you could add a bicep exercise or two on your pull day, and a triceps exercise on her push days.. I don't think it would interfere if she did the arm workout on
Saturday morning.. Maybe at first, but she will get accustomed to it after a while, the body can adapt.
True, it might be something she can try. She can read and respond tomorrow I don't want to speak for her but it might be an idea. I might try it next week and see what happens. I already work bisceps on my pull days so that gives me 2 bi/forearm and 2 tri but triceps can generally handle a bigger load. As long as it doesn't interfere with the bench it should work.
In terms of your argument, what exercise science evidence can you provide that shows that separation of pull/push foundation is more or less beneficial to hypertrophy growth and recovery.
You didn't actually read my posts or you wouldn't ask me about hypertrophy, now would you?
"You do need proper recovery, I guess you could add a bicep exercise or two on your pull day, and a triceps exercise on her push days.. I don't think it would interfere if she did the arm workout on Saturday morning."
I am making an inference on your previous statement on the separation of pull/ push exercises. I am assuming that you believe that rest time is necessary between the two forms. I am just curious, not necessarily trolling you or anything like that
What I was trying to say is that you didn't understand what I was pointing out since it's not a building program where hypertrophy is the over-riding factor. If I was on a building program then I would do different splits with higher volume per week on each muscle group.
I, and the OP, are on a powerlifting program and the rest time is longer for reason specific to the philosophy of training that encompass powerlifting. If I was to link to any current hypertrophy related articles I think you would find that volume per week is more important so if you want that you should be looking here:
hypertrophyspecific.com/hst_index.html
BTW no I didn't' think you were trolling, I just thought you were asking the wrong person.
"I have skinny arms and would love to make them bigger. I'd love to add more volume, but I'm completely squeezed for time (I have exactly 35 minutes to go to the gym each day, which is just enough time to get the big muscle groups each time). I've been lifting for a few years and am currently in the middle of my second bulk."
This girl doesn't know what she wants, and her programming and goal setting reflects it. She has this specific "spot training" (myth) goal from what I can interpret, which is kind of unhealthy even from an aesthetic standpoint. Just curious, what happens when you hit a plateau in powerlifting from a programming standpoint?
How is wanting bigger arms mentally unhealthy? It's not as is she is obsessing over it and testing "add in inch to your arms in 24 hours" routines.
It is mentally unhealthy when the goal is not precise and clear. The goal was to grow bigger arms. By how much? By when? How? Goals have to be clear and precise. If this was a business practice, I do not simply state that I want to make lots of money, as this does not give clear and precise directions on how to achieve said goal. It's unhealthy for a business to conduct daily operations without knowing what it wants to achieve. The same could be said for an aesthetic goal of building bigger arms, because you could be doing things that are not aligned with what you are wanting to achieve. I was being facetious when I mentioned synthol, because the stated goal, again, is not clear nor precise)
*Just curious, what happens when you hit a plateau in powerlifting from a programming standpoint?
It's obvious you must change variables, but I was wanting more specifics on how power lifters go about breaking plateaus from a programming standpoint. Is there a common system that power lifters go about in altering their programs?
Seriously, man? I want 80" arms. I mean, really, I just want my arms a little bigger and more proportionate to the rest of my body. Don't be ridiculous.
I'm following Wendler's 5/3/1 for programming...if you knew anything about power lifting or that program specifically (Google is your friend here), you'd know that Wendler's has a very specific protocol for getting past stalls.
I just want my arms a little bigger and more proportionate to the rest of my body.
You've illustrated my point with your previous statement. What does a little bigger mean? Have you taken a measuring tape of your current arm size? What is the ideal arm size you are wanting? When do you want to have this arm size?
I'm following Wendler's 5/3/1 for programming...if you knew anything about power lifting or that program specifically (Google is your friend here), you'd know that Wendler's has a very specific protocol for getting past stalls
I don't know anything about power lifting, so that's why I asked. And yes, I could totally google it, but I figured that someone practicing powerlifting would have an idea.
I've stated before in this thread (reading comprehension would help you) that my biceps are 11". I can't give an actual goal number because I don't know what specific girth will look proportionate. Specific doesn't need to be a number.
You need to be specific number-wise for this particular goal, because proportionate is ambiguous. I'd be embarrassed to walk up to Mark Rippetoe and tell him "I want to be proportionate", because he's going be like "wtf does that mean?". Just choose an arm size that might work for you. Even if it's an unrealistic number that you probably won't hit, you can gauge your progress based on that specific goal, and you can determine whether you succeeding or failing in that manner.
This is silly.
If I decide I want my legs to grow, I don't need to know what size I want them to be. In fact, most people don't know because they don't have any idea what a 1" gain in muscle will look like.
You can simply do the things required for growth and monitor what your arms look like. If you want, you can measure them to see what size they are as they grow.
And then you can stop when you're satisfied, without ever saying "I want to add exactly 1.5 inches to my arms".
Not to insult you, It is silly for novices and amateurs because goal setting is not a high priority or risk. Whereas, If you're a serious performance athlete, then goals need to more much more clearer and concrete.
I'm not insulted, but I disagree with you entirely.
Even a competition level natural bodybuilder doesn't say "I must get my biceps from 15" to 17.2".
They instead understand how to stimulate growth and they manage their training and diet and get the most they can out of it.
You're being ridiculous in this specific context of muscle size.0 -
Wheelhouse15 wrote: »LolBroScience wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »A mere suggestion, that is all...damn..
It does seem to be a misunderstanding in my view since you thought she was trying to build and didn't understand the 531 program she was on. I think it's just time to let it go at that.
To OP, as you know I do the same program but I've decided this week to add a bi/forearm day to my abs after the leg day. I'll let you know how that works but since you hit your tris two days and bis only once I thought I would give it a try.
Your obviously a nice person, you can disagree with me without trying to make me feel like an ignorant idiot... You are right, I don't know much about this program, but my point the bicep and triceps are not large muscles, it doesn't take much time to blast them hard, I just don't see how this would interfere with that program..
It may not in reality but 531 is a four day, push/pull/lower split so you would have to be careful how you position a pure arms day. The split is push, pull, rest, push, leg, rest, rest. This means it would be hard to put triceps into any other day without interfering with one of the push days (assuming 48 hours rest required). Biceps can be put in on the 2nd rest day and not interfere so this is what I am trying. I wouldn't want to do triceps on a 3rd day so I work them on both push days.
Does this make sense?
You do need proper recovery, I guess you could add a bicep exercise or two on your pull day, and a triceps exercise on her push days.. I don't think it would interfere if she did the arm workout on
Saturday morning.. Maybe at first, but she will get accustomed to it after a while, the body can adapt.
True, it might be something she can try. She can read and respond tomorrow I don't want to speak for her but it might be an idea. I might try it next week and see what happens. I already work bisceps on my pull days so that gives me 2 bi/forearm and 2 tri but triceps can generally handle a bigger load. As long as it doesn't interfere with the bench it should work.
In terms of your argument, what exercise science evidence can you provide that shows that separation of pull/push foundation is more or less beneficial to hypertrophy growth and recovery.
You didn't actually read my posts or you wouldn't ask me about hypertrophy, now would you?
"You do need proper recovery, I guess you could add a bicep exercise or two on your pull day, and a triceps exercise on her push days.. I don't think it would interfere if she did the arm workout on Saturday morning."
I am making an inference on your previous statement on the separation of pull/ push exercises. I am assuming that you believe that rest time is necessary between the two forms. I am just curious, not necessarily trolling you or anything like that
What I was trying to say is that you didn't understand what I was pointing out since it's not a building program where hypertrophy is the over-riding factor. If I was on a building program then I would do different splits with higher volume per week on each muscle group.
I, and the OP, are on a powerlifting program and the rest time is longer for reason specific to the philosophy of training that encompass powerlifting. If I was to link to any current hypertrophy related articles I think you would find that volume per week is more important so if you want that you should be looking here:
hypertrophyspecific.com/hst_index.html
BTW no I didn't' think you were trolling, I just thought you were asking the wrong person.
"I have skinny arms and would love to make them bigger. I'd love to add more volume, but I'm completely squeezed for time (I have exactly 35 minutes to go to the gym each day, which is just enough time to get the big muscle groups each time). I've been lifting for a few years and am currently in the middle of my second bulk."
This girl doesn't know what she wants, and her programming and goal setting reflects it. She has this specific "spot training" (myth) goal from what I can interpret, which is kind of unhealthy even from an aesthetic standpoint. Just curious, what happens when you hit a plateau in powerlifting from a programming standpoint?
How is wanting bigger arms mentally unhealthy? It's not as is she is obsessing over it and testing "add in inch to your arms in 24 hours" routines.
It is mentally unhealthy when the goal is not precise and clear. The goal was to grow bigger arms. By how much? By when? How? Goals have to be clear and precise. If this was a business practice, I do not simply state that I want to make lots of money, as this does not give clear and precise directions on how to achieve said goal. It's unhealthy for a business to conduct daily operations without knowing what it wants to achieve. The same could be said for an aesthetic goal of building bigger arms, because you could be doing things that are not aligned with what you are wanting to achieve. I was being facetious when I mentioned synthol, because the stated goal, again, is not clear nor precise)
*Just curious, what happens when you hit a plateau in powerlifting from a programming standpoint?
It's obvious you must change variables, but I was wanting more specifics on how power lifters go about breaking plateaus from a programming standpoint. Is there a common system that power lifters go about in altering their programs?
This is an honest question....... do you even lift? Seriously. Do you? Because it doesn't look like you do.
Hmm, I do lift Here's some of the workouts I perform. For kicks and giggles, I'm also working on an iron cross
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/1334317/fun-fun-workouts-what-do-you-think#latest
So you worked out 8 times in 6 months. Got it
Na, I'm a little crazy with this stuff. I go about 5 times a week. 5 weeks straight, 1 week rest. 6 am. Cardio every other day. Boxing on alternating days. And I do marathons, which you are welcome to join me for.
I don't typically post workouts, as it takes time. My friends ask me to post sometimes, and if I'm on, I'll post my daily workout routine.
But you'll have my respect if you're able to do anyone of those workouts with ease
So these are xfit WODs then? Have you considered a progressive program rather than the random scatter? If you are trying to build then xfit isn't optimal, also why would any of us do random WODs? Anyone can throw together a bunch of exercises that can kick anyone's butt but that doesn't make it relevant to our goals.
Have you seen my previous posts on crossfit? lol I AM NO CROSSFITTER. I make fun of crossfit. Crossfit needs to die. period. Have you seen kipping?
You have a small understanding of my personal goals and fitness programing. You also cannot base progression on what, like 7 workouts that I've posted with no data about weight intensity, duration, nor time frame. For all you know, these could have been workouts I've logged over years of training.
Also why would you do my workouts? The Hispanic dude wanted to know if I "worked out", so I assumed he wanted see my workouts
yea we get it your an internet bad *kitten* …congrats….you and 100 million other people...0 -
LolBroScience wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »A mere suggestion, that is all...damn..
It does seem to be a misunderstanding in my view since you thought she was trying to build and didn't understand the 531 program she was on. I think it's just time to let it go at that.
To OP, as you know I do the same program but I've decided this week to add a bi/forearm day to my abs after the leg day. I'll let you know how that works but since you hit your tris two days and bis only once I thought I would give it a try.
Your obviously a nice person, you can disagree with me without trying to make me feel like an ignorant idiot... You are right, I don't know much about this program, but my point the bicep and triceps are not large muscles, it doesn't take much time to blast them hard, I just don't see how this would interfere with that program..
It may not in reality but 531 is a four day, push/pull/lower split so you would have to be careful how you position a pure arms day. The split is push, pull, rest, push, leg, rest, rest. This means it would be hard to put triceps into any other day without interfering with one of the push days (assuming 48 hours rest required). Biceps can be put in on the 2nd rest day and not interfere so this is what I am trying. I wouldn't want to do triceps on a 3rd day so I work them on both push days.
Does this make sense?
You do need proper recovery, I guess you could add a bicep exercise or two on your pull day, and a triceps exercise on her push days.. I don't think it would interfere if she did the arm workout on
Saturday morning.. Maybe at first, but she will get accustomed to it after a while, the body can adapt.
True, it might be something she can try. She can read and respond tomorrow I don't want to speak for her but it might be an idea. I might try it next week and see what happens. I already work bisceps on my pull days so that gives me 2 bi/forearm and 2 tri but triceps can generally handle a bigger load. As long as it doesn't interfere with the bench it should work.
In terms of your argument, what exercise science evidence can you provide that shows that separation of pull/push foundation is more or less beneficial to hypertrophy growth and recovery.
You didn't actually read my posts or you wouldn't ask me about hypertrophy, now would you?
"You do need proper recovery, I guess you could add a bicep exercise or two on your pull day, and a triceps exercise on her push days.. I don't think it would interfere if she did the arm workout on Saturday morning."
I am making an inference on your previous statement on the separation of pull/ push exercises. I am assuming that you believe that rest time is necessary between the two forms. I am just curious, not necessarily trolling you or anything like that
What I was trying to say is that you didn't understand what I was pointing out since it's not a building program where hypertrophy is the over-riding factor. If I was on a building program then I would do different splits with higher volume per week on each muscle group.
I, and the OP, are on a powerlifting program and the rest time is longer for reason specific to the philosophy of training that encompass powerlifting. If I was to link to any current hypertrophy related articles I think you would find that volume per week is more important so if you want that you should be looking here:
hypertrophyspecific.com/hst_index.html
BTW no I didn't' think you were trolling, I just thought you were asking the wrong person.
"I have skinny arms and would love to make them bigger. I'd love to add more volume, but I'm completely squeezed for time (I have exactly 35 minutes to go to the gym each day, which is just enough time to get the big muscle groups each time). I've been lifting for a few years and am currently in the middle of my second bulk."
This girl doesn't know what she wants, and her programming and goal setting reflects it. She has this specific "spot training" (myth) goal from what I can interpret, which is kind of unhealthy even from an aesthetic standpoint. Just curious, what happens when you hit a plateau in powerlifting from a programming standpoint?
How is wanting bigger arms mentally unhealthy? It's not as is she is obsessing over it and testing "add in inch to your arms in 24 hours" routines.
It is mentally unhealthy when the goal is not precise and clear. The goal was to grow bigger arms. By how much? By when? How? Goals have to be clear and precise. If this was a business practice, I do not simply state that I want to make lots of money, as this does not give clear and precise directions on how to achieve said goal. It's unhealthy for a business to conduct daily operations without knowing what it wants to achieve. The same could be said for an aesthetic goal of building bigger arms, because you could be doing things that are not aligned with what you are wanting to achieve. I was being facetious when I mentioned synthol, because the stated goal, again, is not clear nor precise)
*Just curious, what happens when you hit a plateau in powerlifting from a programming standpoint?
It's obvious you must change variables, but I was wanting more specifics on how power lifters go about breaking plateaus from a programming standpoint. Is there a common system that power lifters go about in altering their programs?
This is an honest question....... do you even lift? Seriously. Do you? Because it doesn't look like you do.
Hmm, I do lift Here's some of the workouts I perform. For kicks and giggles, I'm also working on an iron cross
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/1334317/fun-fun-workouts-what-do-you-think#latest
So you worked out 8 times in 6 months. Got it
Na, I'm a little crazy with this stuff. I go about 5 times a week. 5 weeks straight, 1 week rest. 6 am. Cardio every other day. Boxing on alternating days. And I do marathons, which you are welcome to join me for.
I don't typically post workouts, as it takes time. My friends ask me to post sometimes, and if I'm on, I'll post my daily workout routine.
But you'll have my respect if you're able to do anyone of those workouts with ease
Damn......I guess I'll never earn your respect then. I might as well go do Cross Fit from now on then go crawl under a rock.
In for the xfit chicks!0 -
LolBroScience wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »A mere suggestion, that is all...damn..
It does seem to be a misunderstanding in my view since you thought she was trying to build and didn't understand the 531 program she was on. I think it's just time to let it go at that.
To OP, as you know I do the same program but I've decided this week to add a bi/forearm day to my abs after the leg day. I'll let you know how that works but since you hit your tris two days and bis only once I thought I would give it a try.
Your obviously a nice person, you can disagree with me without trying to make me feel like an ignorant idiot... You are right, I don't know much about this program, but my point the bicep and triceps are not large muscles, it doesn't take much time to blast them hard, I just don't see how this would interfere with that program..
It may not in reality but 531 is a four day, push/pull/lower split so you would have to be careful how you position a pure arms day. The split is push, pull, rest, push, leg, rest, rest. This means it would be hard to put triceps into any other day without interfering with one of the push days (assuming 48 hours rest required). Biceps can be put in on the 2nd rest day and not interfere so this is what I am trying. I wouldn't want to do triceps on a 3rd day so I work them on both push days.
Does this make sense?
You do need proper recovery, I guess you could add a bicep exercise or two on your pull day, and a triceps exercise on her push days.. I don't think it would interfere if she did the arm workout on
Saturday morning.. Maybe at first, but she will get accustomed to it after a while, the body can adapt.
True, it might be something she can try. She can read and respond tomorrow I don't want to speak for her but it might be an idea. I might try it next week and see what happens. I already work bisceps on my pull days so that gives me 2 bi/forearm and 2 tri but triceps can generally handle a bigger load. As long as it doesn't interfere with the bench it should work.
In terms of your argument, what exercise science evidence can you provide that shows that separation of pull/push foundation is more or less beneficial to hypertrophy growth and recovery.
You didn't actually read my posts or you wouldn't ask me about hypertrophy, now would you?
"You do need proper recovery, I guess you could add a bicep exercise or two on your pull day, and a triceps exercise on her push days.. I don't think it would interfere if she did the arm workout on Saturday morning."
I am making an inference on your previous statement on the separation of pull/ push exercises. I am assuming that you believe that rest time is necessary between the two forms. I am just curious, not necessarily trolling you or anything like that
What I was trying to say is that you didn't understand what I was pointing out since it's not a building program where hypertrophy is the over-riding factor. If I was on a building program then I would do different splits with higher volume per week on each muscle group.
I, and the OP, are on a powerlifting program and the rest time is longer for reason specific to the philosophy of training that encompass powerlifting. If I was to link to any current hypertrophy related articles I think you would find that volume per week is more important so if you want that you should be looking here:
hypertrophyspecific.com/hst_index.html
BTW no I didn't' think you were trolling, I just thought you were asking the wrong person.
"I have skinny arms and would love to make them bigger. I'd love to add more volume, but I'm completely squeezed for time (I have exactly 35 minutes to go to the gym each day, which is just enough time to get the big muscle groups each time). I've been lifting for a few years and am currently in the middle of my second bulk."
This girl doesn't know what she wants, and her programming and goal setting reflects it. She has this specific "spot training" (myth) goal from what I can interpret, which is kind of unhealthy even from an aesthetic standpoint. Just curious, what happens when you hit a plateau in powerlifting from a programming standpoint?
How is wanting bigger arms mentally unhealthy? It's not as is she is obsessing over it and testing "add in inch to your arms in 24 hours" routines.
It is mentally unhealthy when the goal is not precise and clear. The goal was to grow bigger arms. By how much? By when? How? Goals have to be clear and precise. If this was a business practice, I do not simply state that I want to make lots of money, as this does not give clear and precise directions on how to achieve said goal. It's unhealthy for a business to conduct daily operations without knowing what it wants to achieve. The same could be said for an aesthetic goal of building bigger arms, because you could be doing things that are not aligned with what you are wanting to achieve. I was being facetious when I mentioned synthol, because the stated goal, again, is not clear nor precise)
*Just curious, what happens when you hit a plateau in powerlifting from a programming standpoint?
It's obvious you must change variables, but I was wanting more specifics on how power lifters go about breaking plateaus from a programming standpoint. Is there a common system that power lifters go about in altering their programs?
Seriously, man? I want 80" arms. I mean, really, I just want my arms a little bigger and more proportionate to the rest of my body. Don't be ridiculous.
I'm following Wendler's 5/3/1 for programming...if you knew anything about power lifting or that program specifically (Google is your friend here), you'd know that Wendler's has a very specific protocol for getting past stalls.
I just want my arms a little bigger and more proportionate to the rest of my body.
You've illustrated my point with your previous statement. What does a little bigger mean? Have you taken a measuring tape of your current arm size? What is the ideal arm size you are wanting? When do you want to have this arm size?
I'm following Wendler's 5/3/1 for programming...if you knew anything about power lifting or that program specifically (Google is your friend here), you'd know that Wendler's has a very specific protocol for getting past stalls
I don't know anything about power lifting, so that's why I asked. And yes, I could totally google it, but I figured that someone practicing powerlifting would have an idea.
I've stated before in this thread (reading comprehension would help you) that my biceps are 11". I can't give an actual goal number because I don't know what specific girth will look proportionate. Specific doesn't need to be a number.
You need to be specific number-wise for this particular goal, because proportionate is ambiguous. I'd be embarrassed to walk up to Mark Rippetoe and tell him "I want to be proportionate", because he's going be like "wtf does that mean?". Just choose an arm size that might work for you. Even if it's an unrealistic number that you probably won't hit, you can gauge your progress based on that specific goal, and you can determine whether you succeeding or failing in that manner.
for specific realistic LIFTS- yes- it's nice to have a number specific goal- because it's something tangible that's obtainable. And usually when phrased as
" I'm training with XXXXX program for the next 12 weeks to put 10 pounds on my squat"
that's a reasonable- smart- specific goal. with a plan.
Saying- I'm training to put 5" on my biceps is just absurd.
Yes- you can want to get bigger- yes you can want to get more cut- but actually putting a specific number on something like that is just- absurd- that's really the best word I can come up with- absurd. You're body doesn't work like that- and neither does specific training- no matter how detailed it is.0 -
Have you seen my previous posts on crossfit? lol I AM NO CROSSFITTER. I make fun of crossfit. Crossfit needs to die. period. Have you seen kipping?
its' fine to not be a crossfitter- but there is no need to make fun of it- yes they have their quarks- as do marathoners- that whole joke about how do you know if someone is a runner? just wait they'll tell you... kind of thing- it's applicable to everything.
I don't particular care for cross fit- it's not my cup of tea- I prefer better long term goals- but for some people it's perfect- and it's done more to get people lifting real weights than anything else has in the last 20 years.
Also what does kipping have to do with anything- it's not a pull up. it's a kip. It serves a purpose.
plain and simple.
Cross fit is the zumba of weight lifting. Much like I don't mind taking a zumba class once in a while- I'm under no delusions that it's a dance class.... same with cross fit- it's a great class for people who want to just sweat and get work out in and feel like they accomplished something.
but be of no delusions that it's a power training program. because it's not.
But there is not need to rag on it because it's not for you. That's just silly- and it makes you look childish.0 -
I'm not insulted, but I disagree with you entirely.
Even a competition level natural bodybuilder doesn't say "I must get my biceps from 15" to 17.2".
They instead understand how to stimulate growth and they manage their training and diet and get the most they can out of it.
You're being ridiculous in this specific context of muscle size.
Even a competition level natural bodybuilder doesn't say "I must get my biceps from 15" to 17.2".
Sure, you don't go in the gym and say "I need to increase my arms by an inch" because that's just weird; and you also don't run a business meeting and tell people "we need a 20% profit margin increase by next month". However, I would think you would need a reference point to whether you're succeeding or failing towards what you want. In a business context, if I don't keep yearly income statements on daily operations, how do I know whether or not I am doing better or worse than the year before? I don't, because I don't have indicators to tell me otherwise. When you don't have clear and precise goals/indicators, you don't know how well you are doing. This should be true of any endeavor including being a natural bodybuilding competitor.0 -
LolBroScience wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »A mere suggestion, that is all...damn..
It does seem to be a misunderstanding in my view since you thought she was trying to build and didn't understand the 531 program she was on. I think it's just time to let it go at that.
To OP, as you know I do the same program but I've decided this week to add a bi/forearm day to my abs after the leg day. I'll let you know how that works but since you hit your tris two days and bis only once I thought I would give it a try.
Your obviously a nice person, you can disagree with me without trying to make me feel like an ignorant idiot... You are right, I don't know much about this program, but my point the bicep and triceps are not large muscles, it doesn't take much time to blast them hard, I just don't see how this would interfere with that program..
It may not in reality but 531 is a four day, push/pull/lower split so you would have to be careful how you position a pure arms day. The split is push, pull, rest, push, leg, rest, rest. This means it would be hard to put triceps into any other day without interfering with one of the push days (assuming 48 hours rest required). Biceps can be put in on the 2nd rest day and not interfere so this is what I am trying. I wouldn't want to do triceps on a 3rd day so I work them on both push days.
Does this make sense?
You do need proper recovery, I guess you could add a bicep exercise or two on your pull day, and a triceps exercise on her push days.. I don't think it would interfere if she did the arm workout on
Saturday morning.. Maybe at first, but she will get accustomed to it after a while, the body can adapt.
True, it might be something she can try. She can read and respond tomorrow I don't want to speak for her but it might be an idea. I might try it next week and see what happens. I already work bisceps on my pull days so that gives me 2 bi/forearm and 2 tri but triceps can generally handle a bigger load. As long as it doesn't interfere with the bench it should work.
In terms of your argument, what exercise science evidence can you provide that shows that separation of pull/push foundation is more or less beneficial to hypertrophy growth and recovery.
You didn't actually read my posts or you wouldn't ask me about hypertrophy, now would you?
"You do need proper recovery, I guess you could add a bicep exercise or two on your pull day, and a triceps exercise on her push days.. I don't think it would interfere if she did the arm workout on Saturday morning."
I am making an inference on your previous statement on the separation of pull/ push exercises. I am assuming that you believe that rest time is necessary between the two forms. I am just curious, not necessarily trolling you or anything like that
What I was trying to say is that you didn't understand what I was pointing out since it's not a building program where hypertrophy is the over-riding factor. If I was on a building program then I would do different splits with higher volume per week on each muscle group.
I, and the OP, are on a powerlifting program and the rest time is longer for reason specific to the philosophy of training that encompass powerlifting. If I was to link to any current hypertrophy related articles I think you would find that volume per week is more important so if you want that you should be looking here:
hypertrophyspecific.com/hst_index.html
BTW no I didn't' think you were trolling, I just thought you were asking the wrong person.
"I have skinny arms and would love to make them bigger. I'd love to add more volume, but I'm completely squeezed for time (I have exactly 35 minutes to go to the gym each day, which is just enough time to get the big muscle groups each time). I've been lifting for a few years and am currently in the middle of my second bulk."
This girl doesn't know what she wants, and her programming and goal setting reflects it. She has this specific "spot training" (myth) goal from what I can interpret, which is kind of unhealthy even from an aesthetic standpoint. Just curious, what happens when you hit a plateau in powerlifting from a programming standpoint?
How is wanting bigger arms mentally unhealthy? It's not as is she is obsessing over it and testing "add in inch to your arms in 24 hours" routines.
It is mentally unhealthy when the goal is not precise and clear. The goal was to grow bigger arms. By how much? By when? How? Goals have to be clear and precise. If this was a business practice, I do not simply state that I want to make lots of money, as this does not give clear and precise directions on how to achieve said goal. It's unhealthy for a business to conduct daily operations without knowing what it wants to achieve. The same could be said for an aesthetic goal of building bigger arms, because you could be doing things that are not aligned with what you are wanting to achieve. I was being facetious when I mentioned synthol, because the stated goal, again, is not clear nor precise)
*Just curious, what happens when you hit a plateau in powerlifting from a programming standpoint?
It's obvious you must change variables, but I was wanting more specifics on how power lifters go about breaking plateaus from a programming standpoint. Is there a common system that power lifters go about in altering their programs?
Seriously, man? I want 80" arms. I mean, really, I just want my arms a little bigger and more proportionate to the rest of my body. Don't be ridiculous.
I'm following Wendler's 5/3/1 for programming...if you knew anything about power lifting or that program specifically (Google is your friend here), you'd know that Wendler's has a very specific protocol for getting past stalls.
I just want my arms a little bigger and more proportionate to the rest of my body.
You've illustrated my point with your previous statement. What does a little bigger mean? Have you taken a measuring tape of your current arm size? What is the ideal arm size you are wanting? When do you want to have this arm size?
I'm following Wendler's 5/3/1 for programming...if you knew anything about power lifting or that program specifically (Google is your friend here), you'd know that Wendler's has a very specific protocol for getting past stalls
I don't know anything about power lifting, so that's why I asked. And yes, I could totally google it, but I figured that someone practicing powerlifting would have an idea.
I've stated before in this thread (reading comprehension would help you) that my biceps are 11". I can't give an actual goal number because I don't know what specific girth will look proportionate. Specific doesn't need to be a number.
You need to be specific number-wise for this particular goal, because proportionate is ambiguous. I'd be embarrassed to walk up to Mark Rippetoe and tell him "I want to be proportionate", because he's going be like "wtf does that mean?". Just choose an arm size that might work for you. Even if it's an unrealistic number that you probably won't hit, you can gauge your progress based on that specific goal, and you can determine whether you succeeding or failing in that manner.I'm not insulted, but I disagree with you entirely.
Even a competition level natural bodybuilder doesn't say "I must get my biceps from 15" to 17.2".
They instead understand how to stimulate growth and they manage their training and diet and get the most they can out of it.
You're being ridiculous in this specific context of muscle size.
Even a competition level natural bodybuilder doesn't say "I must get my biceps from 15" to 17.2".
Sure, you don't go in the gym and say "I need to increase my arms by an inch" because that's just weird; and you also don't run a business meeting and tell people "we need a 20% profit margin increase by next month". However, I would think you would need a reference point to whether you're succeeding or failing towards what you want. In a business context, if I don't keep yearly income statements on daily operations, how do I know whether or not I am doing better or worse than the year before? I don't, because I don't have indicators to tell me otherwise. When you don't have clear and precise goals/indicators, you don't know how well you are doing. This should be true of any endeavor including being a natural bodybuilding competitor.
And that's why I take measurements. Too see progress. October 2013; 10" biceps, February 2014: 10.5" biceps, September 2014: 11" biceps, December 2014: 11.000000001" biceps. I already stated the growth previously in this thread, but again would require you to actually read what I've written, which, obviously, you choose not to.
I'm keeping track and looking at trends in size increase via the tape measure. Not sure how I wouldn't be able to track progress without a specific size goal. I think proportionate is a pretty specific goal.
As I continue to lift and bulk, the rest of my body continues to change. It would be ridiculous to assign an arbitrary number to my biceps as it would always have to be a moving target.0 -
Seems like you are trying to square a circle here. You have limited time, the focus of your programming is strength yet you want more hypertrophy which requires more volume and time.
Something has to give. You could I guess consider a mixed programme but that would require more time than you seem to have frankly and you may end up injuring yourself.
I think periodisation is probably your best best here if growing the size of your arms has now become a primary goal or hiring a decent coach to get a tailormade programme.0 -
Have you seen my previous posts on crossfit? lol I AM NO CROSSFITTER. I make fun of crossfit. Crossfit needs to die. period. Have you seen kipping?
its' fine to not be a crossfitter- but there is no need to make fun of it- yes they have their quarks- as do marathoners- that whole joke about how do you know if someone is a runner? just wait they'll tell you... kind of thing- it's applicable to everything.
I don't particular care for cross fit- it's not my cup of tea- I prefer better long term goals- but for some people it's perfect- and it's done more to get people lifting real weights than anything else has in the last 20 years.
Also what does kipping have to do with anything- it's not a pull up. it's a kip. It serves a purpose.
plain and simple.
Cross fit is the zumba of weight lifting. Much like I don't mind taking a zumba class once in a while- I'm under no delusions that it's a dance class.... same with cross fit- it's a great class for people who want to just sweat and get work out in and feel like they accomplished something.
but be of no delusions that it's a power training program. because it's not.
But there is not need to rag on it because it's not for you. That's just silly- and it makes you look childish.
Remember, I did not bring up crossfit. However, I totally need to rag on crossfit if someone associates me with the zumba of weightlifting.
Here's my trend on crossfit hate
*I feel a little bored, so I thought this would amuse you
2010: Wtf am I witnessing
2011: I totally need to make fun of this *totally makes a youtube video
2012: I'm never going to run out of Crossfit jokes.
2013: Seriously, it's still going? What is wrong with these people
2014: I'm going to curbstomp the next crossfit person doing kipping pullups in my gym
I'm already tired of making fun of Crossfit. At this point in time, I'm more interested in watching crossfitters get injured, because it just means that I'll see one less crossfitter kipping/humping the pullup bar.
I think crossfitters and zumba people make fun of you but that's just me0 -
I'm not insulted, but I disagree with you entirely.
Even a competition level natural bodybuilder doesn't say "I must get my biceps from 15" to 17.2".
They instead understand how to stimulate growth and they manage their training and diet and get the most they can out of it.
You're being ridiculous in this specific context of muscle size.
Even a competition level natural bodybuilder doesn't say "I must get my biceps from 15" to 17.2".
Sure, you don't go in the gym and say "I need to increase my arms by an inch" because that's just weird; and you also don't run a business meeting and tell people "we need a 20% profit margin increase by next month". However, I would think you would need a reference point to whether you're succeeding or failing towards what you want. In a business context, if I don't keep yearly income statements on daily operations, how do I know whether or not I am doing better or worse than the year before? I don't, because I don't have indicators to tell me otherwise. When you don't have clear and precise goals/indicators, you don't know how well you are doing. This should be true of any endeavor including being a natural bodybuilding competitor.
Clearly you don't work in sales.
Furthermore, it still doesn't make someone mentally unhealthy. How old are you anyway?0
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