The fundamentals of successful longterm weightloss for everyone.

Machka9 wrote: »

I was in the same situation (re having to quit exercise due to injury adn consequent regain)... I had one of my best years of cycling and finished the season slim and trim. Then I had an accident and burnt my left foot to the bone. Could not leave the house for 5 weeks. Could hardly move at all for those 5 weeks. Just standing caused the blood to pool painfully in that foot because the artery/vein system was damaged at the foot end of things.

Just about every other year, I put on about 20 lbs in winter (but remained within my normal BMI range) because I exercised less in winter, and then I lost it with the extra exercise come spring. So gaining 20 lbs in winter was OK with me. I didn't mind starting the season with a little bit of extra weight. But that year, I realised that it wasn't a matter of exercising less ... it was a matter of not exercising at all. Sedentary barely described my activity level. So I made a point of eating less. I did gain some weight, but only about 15 lbs that winter instead of my usual 20.

I was bound and determined not to let that injury stop me. As soon as I could be upright without much pooling blood, I put my bandaged injured foot into a slipper and rode my stationary bike. In the beginning, I could only do about 5 minutes, but I slowly built up. And then, when the foot had healed to the point where my homecare nurse thought I could try a real shoe ... 3 months later ... the first shoe I tried was my cycling shoe. I actually shed tears of delight. I went on to have an even better year of cycling that next season, and dropped to the lowest weight I had been since I was about 18.

(Oh, and I had a full-time job + was taking night classes).

The point being that we've all got a choice when it comes to dealing with situations like that. Weight loss or weight maintenance is all about keeping a balance. If the amount of exercise decreases, like it no doubt will at some points, then we can choose to eat less. If the amount of exercise increases, like it does when we're ramping up toward an event, then we can choose to eat more. Just because something comes along to disrupt the exercise does not necessarily mean that all is lost.

In my experience, for me, this kind of awareness helps a lot with maintenance.

Oh dear, with all the replies this morning, i can see keeping up with this thread might be more work than i can handle.

Anyway to address machka's reply first.

I think your story rather supports my contention actually.

like me when you had to quit exercise you regained the lost weight. Nevertheless come spring you were able to resume exercise and you chose to rely on exercise as a key means to getting rid of the excess weight regain and or also not to regain as much weight in the future. I an others like me are frequently unable to hit the restart button so easily.

And my point is that you didn't have to resume exercise to get the weight off. You were ready to hit the restart button adn you could just have got the weight off with diet. I certainly don't discount your experience as having worked for you. What i'm saying is that it is possible to lose weight and keep it off without exercise. But IF your weight is very low, then YES you will have to do exercise to keep it off. And that's where the point I made about ideal body weight comes to be of significance.Read on...

In further response to sidesteel earlier on in his link with a study showing that people lose more wieght with exercise than without.

I agree that people will lose more weight with exercise than without. It has been my experience also. But i have come to see that being 55kg (the bottom end of my healthy weight range) is not my ideal body weight. It is too hard/too much work is required for me to maintain that low weight. If you want to maintain a very low body weight exericse is essential but this is way beyond matters of health and normality. And as i have pointed out already, you can get from being obese to being inside your healthy weight range easily without exericse.

If you want to go from being obese or overweight to being within your healthy weight range, you do not need to exercise at all . YOu can be as sedentary as you like but you will still find it quite easy if you do all of the above in my fundamentals. And this a most important point.

Even with me, i am now currently exercising. And i know it has helped me lose weight more easily at this end of my current weightloss story. But I do not need to exercise to lose to weight at a steady pace when i am 66kg, 70kg, 80kg or more. I do not even need ot exercise to get down to 63kg. But to get below that and to stay there it seems i do need to do regular exercise.

To get down to 61 kilograms i do not need to do much exercise. 30 minutes of moderate exercise is enough to give me more food to make me happy. But to get down to 55 kilogram or under 60kg then i seem to need to do a lot of exercise adn i need ot keep doing a lot of exercise almost every day.

NOw i am not sure that most people are willing or able to do that. I am neither willing nor able. I used to be willing. But i have seen that willingness is not enough. YOu need to be able to keep it going through thick and thin and I wasn't able to do that.

Hence my whole argument about exericse not being necessary to lose weight and keep it off.

I feel i've used too many words here and so i fear that many of you will still not get what i'm saying. I dont' think i can go over it here anymore on this particular point.

Down the track i will try to make alonger clearer argument about exercise.

that said, i have one more point to make in response to sidesteel's links which i have now looked at but maybe later.

Caitwn wrote: »

Reply to CAITWN.

Thanks for your reply. I think we are more or less understanding each other now. And thanks for the correction about Kessler.

If i recall correctly Salis's work was with hormones. It is the hormones that trigger what she conceptualised as the famine reaction and the fat break.

Currently i myself seem to be going through a famine reaction episode. There doesn't seem to be any other clear explanation for my sudden increase in appetite and weight regain of a few pounds. But because i have been on the journey i'm on, I am not flustered by it. And i do intend to keep trying to stay below what i think may be my ideal body weight for a few more years.

Yes you see here while we may go about it differntly Jane, we are not in a disagreement. My fundamentals are for people to lose weight and stay in their healhty weight range. They are not for people to lose weight and get to their preferred body weight. For me keeping a low body weight is hardly an important matter in terms of health. What's important is for people to get into their healthy body weight range. Even getting into the overweight but not obese range is important if the scientists are to be believed when they say you can be overweight and not be risk of developing weight related diseases. But of course we do want to be in our healthy weight range. And many people want to be very thin. My fundamentals are not designed to help people to become very thin. For that, i would suggest indeed exercise is worthwhile but diet is still the most important factor because any length of time on a bad diet will ruin your health and if you are prone to weight gain anyway, will cause a rebound - the famine reaction because poor diet leads to lows in mood.

Its only now that I see this is about a distinction which might have been good to put at the outset but its only this long thread has made it clear to me that making the distinction is necessary.

That said, if you haven't yet tried dumping all your favourite caloric things and staying there for a while you might find it's not easy at all. Try it first and then tell me about it.

I don't eat very much junk or high caloric stuff at all though i do have a very varied diet and if i did want to have pizza one day I can. To eat at say 1200 calories every day is not something I find easy. And my food is geared very much to getting maximum bang for every calorie in terms of nutrition and satiety because i don't want to play the game of pushing through hunger. I believe it's better to eat if you are hungry. (Also what Dr Salis recommends).

I cannto be bothered to go back and find previous quotes so i will rewrite it since you can't find it either.

1. The Men Who Made us Thin on youtube is a BBC program which interviews with scientists and discusses studies about exercise and all the rest of the exercise industry.
2. Dr Michael Mosley on exercise also on YouTube in which he advoates HIIT. but HIIT is hardly practical for obese people.
3. Psychiatrist and ex gym owner Dr George Blair West who wrote a book called Weight Loss for Food lovers in whidch he writes a chapter full of reasons and argument as to why exercise is not necessary for weightloss and can be counterproductive.
4. I have mentioned Dr Amanda Sainsburies Salis book many times for her discussion on set point theory and how that pertains to the notion of ideal body weight.

Because i udnerstand people will assume that these are the only sources i draw on, i will mention that i have been reading many other books. And i have mentioned all these sources in a great many posts on this forum including recent ones about CICO nad exercise. If i didn't put it on this particular thread then i am mistaken becuase i thought i had. I know i have put it in pms to certain poster that have written to me in recent days about these threads.

To post one study here or there is of almost no consequence. Scientific fact is not established from one study. Science is made from repeatable studies and concensus tends to come from a range of studies with the same conclusions. Dr West said her surveyed all the studies on exercise to come up wtih his conclusions and i believe him becuase what he says confirms my experience.

There is another really important show on youtube which figures largely in my personal approach but which is not directly relevant above but since i am posting some of my favourite programs i might as well put it out there. Its about the importance of fibre for health. The show is called Gut Reaction and its on youtube and produced by Catalyst a respected tv science show from Australia.

Anyway i think i'm done with this thread. If anyone wants to actually get a better understand of what i am talking about and is not just on about tearing me down, then please feel free to pm me.

but i will reiterate a few things;
My fundamentals are this:

To lose weight (to get from obese or overweight to inside your healthy weight range) AND to maintain a healthy body weight in the long term I believe these things are vital.

1. CICO. Yes this is baseline fact of the matter. You can't eat more than you burn or the same as you burn if you want to lose weight. You must eat less. But you will probably find this hard if not impossible to do if you do not factor in the following to your program.
2. Exercise. You do not need to exercise to lose weight and if you are unable to lose weight without exercise you risk failure. That said, exercise is good for you so in the long term it is indeed worth finding a form of exercise that you enjoy and do regularly.
3. Vegetables. Can't see how anyone prone to weightgain can sustain weightloss if you are malnourished and or eating a poor diet.
4. If you do not prioritise yoru mental health and maintain a fairly happy and optimistic outlook you will likely succumb to depression which for many if not most leads to poor food choices and lack of concern for your weight. So resolve stress early and find soltuions to life's problems. GEt help if you need to. But don't delay.
5. Trying to achieve a very low body weight is not sustainable for most people. It requires a lot of work (exercise) and so it is worth understanding that your body might have its own ideal weight adn that is where you will find it easy to maintain. I'm not saying one should settle for htis but it is important to understand how this concept.

the phone ….I'll have to finish later.