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Protein intake for highly-trained, natural weight lifters during caloric deficit

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  • jacklifts
    jacklifts Posts: 396 Member
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    richln wrote: »
    New Phillips paper in Jan 2016 American Journal of Clinical Nutrition: http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/early/2016/01/26/ajcn.115.119339.abstract
    In 40% energy deficit with high volume training, 2.4 g/kg provides better body composition change than 1.2 g/kg over 4 weeks. Training history of subjects not specified in abstract (full text behind paywall).

    Looks like they calculated total calories based on LBM, but don't say in the abstract if the protein is calculated on LBM or BW. I wonder.....
  • senecarr
    senecarr Posts: 5,377 Member
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    rabbitjb wrote: »
    In

    But I will never be in a category that needs to bother about elite status

    Sobs quietly

    What Elite MFP posting doesn't change protein requirements? Well time to cancel my forum account.
  • robertw486
    robertw486 Posts: 2,388 Member
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    @richln

    Great original post, including summaries


    I don't think even those that study this stuff full time will ever 100% agree, but I do think the extremes of protein consumption have been at least tried. And really I've found nothing negative about higher levels, other than impact on the rest of the diet balance and fitting in the other macros. It seems some embrace levels higher than results can justify, but some of those are doing it just to "stay safe" and be sure that enough protein is hitting their system.

    From studies I have seen, I think I would set my intake based on desire to retain all current LBM, or hopes that I could actually gain more during the deficit.

    I do have one study to dig up you might like. It is a VLCD, using 40% protein, but shows great differences in muscle retention if still lifting 3 (maybe 4) times a week vs cardio. Though they did still lose LBM even lifting, when you look at total calorie intake the amount of protein intake was really low on a weight biased scale. Studies like that lead me to believe that the workout itself and reasonable protein intake are the real factors, but it's hard to find studies that really show where the line in the sand is.
  • EvgeniZyntx
    EvgeniZyntx Posts: 24,208 Member
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    Worthy read on the subject -

    Menno Henselmans and Eric Helms discuss the research and recommendations from two different positions.
    Tons of respect for both: http://bayesianbodybuilding.com/eric-helms-protein/
  • psuLemon
    psuLemon Posts: 38,389 MFP Moderator
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    There is so much science up in here, it's scary.
  • richln
    richln Posts: 809 Member
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    EvgeniZyntx wrote: »
    Worthy read on the subject -

    Menno Henselmans and Eric Helms discuss the research and recommendations from two different positions.
    Tons of respect for both: http://bayesianbodybuilding.com/eric-helms-protein/

    I agree, that is a fantastic read. That's why I linked it in the OP :p
    How did you miss it in that great big wall of text?
  • Yi5hedr3
    Yi5hedr3 Posts: 2,696 Member
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    .7 to .8 grams per pound LEAN BODY MASS per day. :)
  • richln
    richln Posts: 809 Member
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    richln wrote: »
    New Phillips paper in Jan 2016 American Journal of Clinical Nutrition: http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/early/2016/01/26/ajcn.115.119339.abstract
    In 40% energy deficit with high volume training, 2.4 g/kg provides better body composition change than 1.2 g/kg over 4 weeks. Training history of subjects not specified in abstract (full text behind paywall).

    Here is the full paper (thanks EvgeniZyntx):
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/fqrvn62mahzfs8y/Longland Clin Nutr 2016.pdf

    Subjects were overweight and "recreationally active," but untrained. The difference in body composition change between the two groups is pretty notable. Further evidence that high protein intake is beneficial for beginners as well as trained athletes.
  • richln
    richln Posts: 809 Member
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    2012 paper (new to me at least) using elite gymnasts placed on a 30 day VLCKD:
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3411406/
    Crossover design compared 1.2 g/kg PRO (WD) versus 2.8 g/kg PRO (VLCKD), with the latter resulting in non-significant increases in muscle mass and significant decrease in fat mass (5.3 to 3.4 kg).
    78y6b7rhp7df.jpg
  • hko718
    hko718 Posts: 85 Member
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    EvgeniZyntx wrote: »
    Worthy read on the subject -

    Menno Henselmans and Eric Helms discuss the research and recommendations from two different positions.
    Tons of respect for both: http://bayesianbodybuilding.com/eric-helms-protein/

    /thread
  • senecarr
    senecarr Posts: 5,377 Member
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    Protein supplementation does not alter intramuscular anabolic signaling or endocrine response after resistance exercise in trained men
    http://www.nrjournal.com/article/S0271-5317(15)00219-5/abstract?cc=y=
    Discussion of the study: http://sciencedrivennutrition.com/is-your-post-workout-protein-shake-worthless/
  • AnvilHead
    AnvilHead Posts: 18,344 Member
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    senecarr wrote: »
    Protein supplementation does not alter intramuscular anabolic signaling or endocrine response after resistance exercise in trained men
    http://www.nrjournal.com/article/S0271-5317(15)00219-5/abstract?cc=y=
    Discussion of the study: http://sciencedrivennutrition.com/is-your-post-workout-protein-shake-worthless/

    Just saw that one tonight in one of the nutrition/training groups I follow on FB. Interesting read.
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