Butter Bob Briggs Clarifies Butter :)
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The system is so complicated, and dealing with a mixed meal is so complicated, I don't think it's possible to paint a simple picture.
I guess I think of it as a "bucket brigade". There's a steady stream of nutrients, and they go where needed. Hormones signal availability. If there are no end users for the available nutrients, they end up in the liver as substrates for DNL, GNG, etc.
The "problem" with eating is that you're ALWAYS consuming more than is needed at that particular moment, so the body has to deal with the excess.0 -
Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »And would there be any need for the body to bother with GNG in a sufficiently higher carb diet?
This discussion has gone way above Butter Bob's head. His message is "don't sweat the details" and "fasting will lower insulin more than any kind of meal."
But GNG happens whenever substrate is available. What else is the body going to do with excess protein, for example?
Metabolism isn't simple. There's no such thing as "sufficient carbs". The entire blood supply only carries about 5g of glucose. Any intake will perturb homeostasis and the body will have to deal with that perturbation.
I agree @wabmester. While the article that I posted supports @midwesterner85 statement the fat part of the major typically just does not rock the boat of most people I guess.0 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »And would there be any need for the body to bother with GNG in a sufficiently higher carb diet?
This discussion has gone way above Butter Bob's head. His message is "don't sweat the details" and "fasting will lower insulin more than any kind of meal."
But GNG happens whenever substrate is available. What else is the body going to do with excess protein, for example?
Metabolism isn't simple. There's no such thing as "sufficient carbs". The entire blood supply only carries about 5g of glucose. Any intake will perturb homeostasis and the body will have to deal with that perturbation.
I agree @wabmester. While the article that I posted supports @midwesterner85 statement the fat part of the major typically just does not rock the boat of most people I guess.
Right - @kirkor made a good analogy with coffee. With fat, BG rises and so does insulin, but it is such a small amount that it often goes unmentioned.0 -
So cool...thanks for sharing. I have already been pondering fasting 16:8 for a couple of reasons. One obviously to kick start my weight loss again but secondly to get my appetite under control. When I'm under stress (which is often at work) I end up feeling really hungry..but I bet it's just how the stress is coming out. I am trying my hardest to get this figured out and under control! Thanks again!!0
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ShootingStar72 wrote: »I saw the title and thought this was about clarifying butter
. Which I have actually thought about trying before. Wonder how it would taste in bpc?
http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/alton-brown/clarified-butter-recipe.html
I liked the video! Thanks!
It tastes good. I make my own ghee clarified butter out of kerrygold unsalted butter. We use this in place of butter at my house. Me & too much dairy don't get along very well. I even have my hubs and boys using it.
It is very simple to do and lasts for a lot longer than we ever have it on hand. Be very careful not to over cook it as I've done and wanted to cry at the waste. I call it my liquid gold.
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midwesterner85 wrote: »Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »And would there be any need for the body to bother with GNG in a sufficiently higher carb diet?
That goes towards my earlier unknown:midwesterner85 wrote: »What we don't know (maybe someone knows this, but I don't) is if gluconeogenesis happens "when needed" or if it happens with all fat and/or protein (except body muscle), or option 3 - it happens to dietary protein and fat always and to body protein and fat as needed.
I find it hard to believe that your body doesn't convert any protein and fat just because you have enough carbs to raise glucose (based solely on my personal observations). I would be interested to know if more or less is converted when carbs are not available to provide automatic glucose. I would also be interested in how the body decides to convert protein vs. fat and how it decides on dietary vs. body protein and fat. Also in question is at what point does glycogen storage no longer provide sufficient glucose and GNG begins (or does GNG begin simultaneous to glycogen release)?
I am certain that I listened to a podcast, I think it was Jason Fung, not sure which podcast either. It was probably 2 months or so ago...
Anyway, they were literally detailing the approximate amounts of glycerol and protein that would be converted to glucose on a daily basis during fasting. The discussion was aimed at determining a basic idea of how much muscle might be lost for the purpose. I don't know the details of course, but the general takeaway was that it's limited to meeting the glucose needs of the brain and that's pretty much it. That some comes from fat, but majority comes from protein. So, it was demand driven.
I listen to so much when driving and hear details like that, that I want to be able to reference, but there's no way to "bookmark" stuff0 -
Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »Anyway, they were literally detailing the approximate amounts of glycerol and protein that would be converted to glucose on a daily basis during fasting.
Sounds like they were discussing one of my favorite studies: Cahill's Starvation in Man. It's a beautiful study. They measured both venous and arterial metabolites during a month of fasting. Minimal glucose needs are about 40g/d. About half of that comes from protein and half from glycerol IIRC.
Of course, that's for steady-state fasting. What does it tell us about the fed state? Maybe not much.
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Thanks for all this. The video is great. It has a very simple and very sane message.
The discussion of when and under what circumstances protein and fats convert to glucose is exactly what I have been wondering about lately - as a wannabe geek who low carbs, fasts intermittently, exercises fairly aggressively during fasting and doesn't want to lose any muscle!
I'm feeling reassured that I'm on the right track.0 -
@megemrj thanks for the info about using Kerry gold! Ghee is so expensive, and I have some digestive issues with dairy so will need to try and see if this helps 0
