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Infectobesity: catching obesity from a cold virus?
Replies
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kristikitter wrote: »Here's a really outlandish thought. In a sci-if series of books about a world called Helliconia, the planet had a year of a few thousand years. The winters were like our Ice Ages, and the summers like our current day Equator. What happened in the books as the world approached winter, the "Fat Sickness" would appear and it would make survivors gain weight and thus appear grotesquely fat (to the slim sumner people) and as the world approached spring, the "starving sickness" would strike resulting in the survivors losing weight and appearing to be walking skeletons ( to the heavier winter people). The author wrote it as a natural adaptation to prepare the human populations for the upcoming winter by adding body mass and insulating fat and then shedding the weight and fat to adapt the humans for the summer. Since the year was thousands of years, there'd be generations where the humans would all be fat whilst it was cold and then generations of being thin whilst the world was hot. Now our world, Earth, is due anytime for its next Ice Age...it's been 26,000 years..and mysteriously an obesity virus has appeared out of nowhere...we have an obesity epidemic going on. I've often wondered how in the heck did humans survive the last Ice Ages? Why are the Ice Age era 30,000 yr old carvings of women all hugely obese "Venus" figurines?.....
Have you SEEN the tremendous amount of cr*p available to eat, 24/7? All the super-size sodas, burgers, fries, king-size chocolate bars, multipacks of chocolate Easter eggs available from January, sugary cereals...?
Obesity doesn't 'come from nowhere'.
Agreed! My sci fi side note was a humourous "outlandish idea" insert meant to illustrate that the idea of an obesity virus feels like stepping into a sci fi tv show...not meant to be taken seriously.0 -
Yes. But that finding that animals gained weight 2.5 times faster is a shocking number. To be 2.5x more food efficient than normal is a huge difference to the CI you can consume and not gain weight. For example if I take my weight mx caloric intake of 1500 calories per day and divide it by 2.5, then I get 600 calories. What person is going to think 600 calories is anything other than a crash diet as opposed to sufficient calories to maintain weight? I'd have to exercise an extra 3hrs/900 calories worth a day just to maintain weight at the 1500 calorie level. If this is real it is very easy to imagine how a person could gradually become obese if they were infected with this virus.goodkoalie wrote: »It still comes down to CICO. Some medical conditions may cause the CO to lower, leading to weight gain, but obesity is still caused by eating over the amount of calories being burned.
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The calorie equation is one thing, but that doesn't mean that looking into factors that affect either side of the equation is not helpful. In fact, it may be even more helpful on a population level because not everyone is as obsessed as we are with logging every bite. It definitely is a possibility that there is a virus that may affect either appetite or BMR, and the gut bacteria research also looks intriguing. Both areas of research are still in their infancy and we can't draw conclusions or plan solutions yet, but it's fascinating and worth pursuing.
It's not about excuses, it's about solutions. A person with an uncorrected underactive thyroid can theoretically lose weight by eating fewer calories than they burn, but it's not an excuse when they claim it to be harder because it is. Seeking to correct the condition is a solution that would make it easier. I don't understand why any attempt at understanding outside forces that may affect obesity are frowned upon. If somewhere along the way they manage to develop a vaccine or a special kind of probiotic that makes it easier for certain people who are affected by these issues to control their weight, why not? They would still need to do the work, but the amount and type of work needed may be substantially reduced. Obesity is the second leading cause to preventable premature death, so any steps taken in the direction of helping at least a fraction of people are more than appreciated.8 -
The science on AD-36 is quite solid. It causes obesity. It is transmitted to humans from chickens by scratches, so most of the obese people in the developed countries don't have that excuse.0
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JeromeBarry1 wrote: »The science on AD-36 is quite solid. It causes obesity. It is transmitted to humans from chickens by scratches, so most of the obese people in the developed countries don't have that excuse.
So that one chicken scratch I got as a child (and is the reason I don't f*** with live chickens anymore) is why I got fat.
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middlehaitch wrote: »Dang! Or words similar that would get a kitten.
I wanted the jab so I could experience what it was like to eat and drink 6000 cals in one sitting.
I would probably explode anyway- ah well. h.
I've done it during refeeds. It's painful, and I'd only recommend it for true masochists.1 -
Thanks everyone for your comments. It appears the majority believe obesity is only caused by overeating which is no surprise at all. Thank you especially to RaeBeeBaby who highlighted that medical conditions do exist that cause obesity (pituitary gland tumour). The authors are doing additional animal studies as are scientists worldwide...they can't test this on humans due to ethics. Also to answer questions, the virus is fought off by the body but the damage is already done to the victims body and is irreversible. The victim then starts to gradually gain weight and over time become obese. They don't think it is the cause of all obesity. I read an estimate of 15%. But then back in the day "the cancer" was viewed as a single disease and now it's perfectly accepted that cancer has multiple causes and is in fact now divided up by body part "lung cancer" "rectal cancer" "brain cancer" etc etc to show that there are cancers plural rather than "the cancer". I'm not fully convinced either about an obesity virus but we already know obesity has multiple causes...genetic links are also being studied and there are several medical conditions that can cause obesity (Cushings, PCOS, thyroid, pituitary). So I am rather open minded when it comes to the possibility that an infectious agent could be causing some obesity cases. I do know for me, that after reading up on obesity causes, I am less judgemental of obese people because there are medical one can never know exactly what is going on in their bodies. This doesn't mean I am all Fat Acceptance...I'm not as I think it's unhealthy.
But.....you do realize that if one gains weight from a tumor that it's the tumor and not actual fat gain, and tumor is not really going to make them obese?
If the tumor causes an increase in appetite, then sure.....if that person eats more calories than they burn they will gain weight, but it's from overeating. One gaining weight to only find out they had a tumor growing in them would be the exception and not the rule. Just the same as my friend who gained 30 some odd pounds in a short amount of time, went to the doctor and was told she had thyroid problems, only to be later told she was retaining water due to a heart condition and had to have an emergency triple bypass. That surgery saved her life, and got rid of the water she was holding due to a life-threatening heart condition.
However, those are exceptions that need immediate medical attention. The number one reason a person gains weight is from eating too much.
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Well, obesity is an epidemic and it may be spreading like a disease.3
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JeromeBarry1 wrote: »The science on AD-36 is quite solid. It causes obesity. It is transmitted to humans from chickens by scratches, so most of the obese people in the developed countries don't have that excuse.
So...do you think maybe I caught it from my husband who is immune to it, but got it because he grew up in an African nation where he and his 5 brothers frequently slept in the family chicken house (this is not *kitten*, it is really how he grew up), so also, all of his brothers who have gotten fat since moving to America, they can blame it on chicken scratches not the ridiculous amount of *kitten* food available here? Yet, for some reason my husband is not fat...inexplicable immunity or extremely lucky!
I am obese because I ate poorly and didn't do enough, and I have a problem with compulsively binge eating when I don't like to feel my feelings. I was never close enough to a live, scratching, chicken to contract obesity the "non-traditional" way.
This thread is a riot.3 -
Here's a really outlandish thought. In a sci-if series of books about a world called Helliconia, the planet had a year of a few thousand years. The winters were like our Ice Ages, and the summers like our current day Equator. What happened in the books as the world approached winter, the "Fat Sickness" would appear and it would make survivors gain weight and thus appear grotesquely fat (to the slim sumner people) and as the world approached spring, the "starving sickness" would strike resulting in the survivors losing weight and appearing to be walking skeletons ( to the heavier winter people). The author wrote it as a natural adaptation to prepare the human populations for the upcoming winter by adding body mass and insulating fat and then shedding the weight and fat to adapt the humans for the summer. Since the year was thousands of years, there'd be generations where the humans would all be fat whilst it was cold and then generations of being thin whilst the world was hot. Now our world, Earth, is due anytime for its next Ice Age...it's been 26,000 years..and mysteriously an obesity virus has appeared out of nowhere...we have an obesity epidemic going on. I've often wondered how in the heck did humans survive the last Ice Ages? Why are the Ice Age era 30,000 yr old carvings of women all hugely obese "Venus" figurines?.....
Those paleolithic "Venus" figures, specifically the "Venus of Willendorf" are thought to be about fertility/pregnancy and the rearing of children according to art historians.
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EVEN IF it is eventually shown that harmful gut bacteria is a cause of obesity, doctors can prescribe strong antibiotics that kill it, and then probiotics to replace it.
My daughter consumed something in Indonesia that made her very ill, and we had to go through a gut bacteria replacement treatment protocol. Killed her gut bacteria with antibiotics and started over from scratch with probiotics.
But personally, I lose weight when I cut calories through diet and exercise and gain when I add them, like everyone else I know.2 -
JeromeBarry1 wrote: »The science on AD-36 is quite solid. It causes obesity. It is transmitted to humans from chickens by scratches, so most of the obese people in the developed countries don't have that excuse.
I have to correct you. AD-36 is not transmitted to humans from chicken scratches. The chicken link is that a chicken virus SAHM that causes obesity in chickens is theorised to have mutated and made the jump to infecting humans as AD-36. AD-36 is a human cold virus that is transmitted between humans by direct contact, oral-fecal and contaminated water (i.e. A swimming pool).
http://scienceblogs.com/aetiology/2008/04/16/a-deeper-look-into-adenovirus3/2 -
Thanks everyone for your comments. It appears the majority believe obesity is only caused by overeating which is no surprise at all. Thank you especially to RaeBeeBaby who highlighted that medical conditions do exist that cause obesity (pituitary gland tumour). The authors are doing additional animal studies as are scientists worldwide...they can't test this on humans due to ethics. Also to answer questions, the virus is fought off by the body but the damage is already done to the victims body and is irreversible. The victim then starts to gradually gain weight and over time become obese. They don't think it is the cause of all obesity. I read an estimate of 15%. But then back in the day "the cancer" was viewed as a single disease and now it's perfectly accepted that cancer has multiple causes and is in fact now divided up by body part "lung cancer" "rectal cancer" "brain cancer" etc etc to show that there are cancers plural rather than "the cancer". I'm not fully convinced either about an obesity virus but we already know obesity has multiple causes...genetic links are also being studied and there are several medical conditions that can cause obesity (Cushings, PCOS, thyroid, pituitary). So I am rather open minded when it comes to the possibility that an infectious agent could be causing some obesity cases. I do know for me, that after reading up on obesity causes, I am less judgemental of obese people because there are medical one can never know exactly what is going on in their bodies. This doesn't mean I am all Fat Acceptance...I'm not as I think it's unhealthy.
But.....you do realize that if one gains weight from a tumor that it's the tumor and not actual fat gain, and tumor is not really going to make them obese?
If the tumor causes an increase in appetite, then sure.....if that person eats more calories than they burn they will gain weight, but it's from overeating. One gaining weight to only find out they had a tumor growing in them would be the exception and not the rule. Just the same as my friend who gained 30 some odd pounds in a short amount of time, went to the doctor and was told she had thyroid problems, only to be later told she was retaining water due to a heart condition and had to have an emergency triple bypass. That surgery saved her life, and got rid of the water she was holding due to a life-threatening heart condition.
However, those are exceptions that need immediate medical attention. The number one reason a person gains weight is from eating too much.
I am sorry but you are mistaken, the pituitary gland is about the size of a pea. The weight gain from a tumor there is not equal to the size and weight of the tumor itself as that would be quite small indeed. A tumor there does cause fat gain which in turn causes the victim to become obese by disrupting the endocrine system. The victim does not experience an increase in appetite and usually does not over eat...as in eat above what would be a normal caloric intake to maintain a healthy weight at their height and activity level. One of the things that happen with a disrupted endocrine system is the body over produces cortisol...which is a hormone that causes you to gain weight....as in add fat. Please read the following for a better understanding of pituitary tumors and obesity. https://www.endocrineweb.com/conditions/cushings-syndrome/diseases-adrenal-cortex-cushings-syndrome4 -
I'm pretty sure a virus may have caused me to eat that last box of girl scout cookies last weekend. yea.. yea.. that's it.. that's the ticket. /snicker2
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There actually have been some very interesting studies wherein a patient with severe IBS has had what amounts to a 'poop implant' (not the scientific term
) into their intestinal tract from a healthy person to introduce a wide spectrum of healthy bacteria. There is anecdotal evidence of very obese people being 'donated to' by thin people and becoming significantly thinner. Studies are continuing to investigate the effect. Not definitive, but certainly very interesting.
If you search the National Institutes of Health PubMed archives for obesity and gut biome there are many interesting clues being uncovered.2 -
There actually have been some very interesting studies wherein a patient with severe IBS has had what amounts to a 'poop implant' (not the scientific term) into their intestinal tract from a healthy person to introduce a wide spectrum of healthy bacteria. There is anecdotal evidence of very obese people being 'donated to' by thin people and becoming significantly thinner. Studies are continuing to investigate the effect. Not definitive, but certainly very interesting.
Maybe they are just too grossed out after the procedure to eat?
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There actually have been some very interesting studies wherein a patient with severe IBS has had what amounts to a 'poop implant' (not the scientific term) into their intestinal tract from a healthy person to introduce a wide spectrum of healthy bacteria. There is anecdotal evidence of very obese people being 'donated to' by thin people and becoming significantly thinner. Studies are continuing to investigate the effect. Not definitive, but certainly very interesting.
If you search the National Institutes of Health PubMed archives for obesity and gut biome there are many interesting clues being uncovered.
I believe the technical term is a transpoosion
Actually, I'm not joking here. Some Gastroenterologists I know through work call them that.....
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Spliner1969 wrote: »There actually have been some very interesting studies wherein a patient with severe IBS has had what amounts to a 'poop implant' (not the scientific term) into their intestinal tract from a healthy person to introduce a wide spectrum of healthy bacteria. There is anecdotal evidence of very obese people being 'donated to' by thin people and becoming significantly thinner. Studies are continuing to investigate the effect. Not definitive, but certainly very interesting.
Maybe they are just too grossed out after the procedure to eat?
Often a faecal transplant is required when a patients of gut flora has been wiped out by fungal infections such as c.diff (which often flourishes after long term antibiotics wipe out bacterial colonies).
An infection such as c.diff leaves a patient with chronic offensive usually green tinged watery diarrhoea several times a day.
I would speculate that these kinds of symptoms might have something to do with weight loss.
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Thanks everyone for your comments. It appears the majority believe obesity is only caused by overeating which is no surprise at all. Thank you especially to RaeBeeBaby who highlighted that medical conditions do exist that cause obesity (pituitary gland tumour). The authors are doing additional animal studies as are scientists worldwide...they can't test this on humans due to ethics. Also to answer questions, the virus is fought off by the body but the damage is already done to the victims body and is irreversible. The victim then starts to gradually gain weight and over time become obese. They don't think it is the cause of all obesity. I read an estimate of 15%. But then back in the day "the cancer" was viewed as a single disease and now it's perfectly accepted that cancer has multiple causes and is in fact now divided up by body part "lung cancer" "rectal cancer" "brain cancer" etc etc to show that there are cancers plural rather than "the cancer". I'm not fully convinced either about an obesity virus but we already know obesity has multiple causes...genetic links are also being studied and there are several medical conditions that can cause obesity (Cushings, PCOS, thyroid, pituitary). So I am rather open minded when it comes to the possibility that an infectious agent could be causing some obesity cases. I do know for me, that after reading up on obesity causes, I am less judgemental of obese people because there are medical one can never know exactly what is going on in their bodies. This doesn't mean I am all Fat Acceptance...I'm not as I think it's unhealthy.
But.....you do realize that if one gains weight from a tumor that it's the tumor and not actual fat gain, and tumor is not really going to make them obese?
If the tumor causes an increase in appetite, then sure.....if that person eats more calories than they burn they will gain weight, but it's from overeating. One gaining weight to only find out they had a tumor growing in them would be the exception and not the rule. Just the same as my friend who gained 30 some odd pounds in a short amount of time, went to the doctor and was told she had thyroid problems, only to be later told she was retaining water due to a heart condition and had to have an emergency triple bypass. That surgery saved her life, and got rid of the water she was holding due to a life-threatening heart condition.
However, those are exceptions that need immediate medical attention. The number one reason a person gains weight is from eating too much.
I am sorry but you are mistaken, the pituitary gland is about the size of a pea. The weight gain from a tumor there is not equal to the size and weight of the tumor itself as that would be quite small indeed. A tumor there does cause fat gain which in turn causes the victim to become obese by disrupting the endocrine system. The victim does not experience an increase in appetite and usually does not over eat...as in eat above what would be a normal caloric intake to maintain a healthy weight at their height and activity level. One of the things that happen with a disrupted endocrine system is the body over produces cortisol...which is a hormone that causes you to gain weight....as in add fat. Please read the following for a better understanding of pituitary tumors and obesity. https://www.endocrineweb.com/conditions/cushings-syndrome/diseases-adrenal-cortex-cushings-syndrome
Perhaps you missed this part:However, those are exceptions that need immediate medical attention. The number one reason a person gains weight is from eating too much.
You are missing the point. A tumor growing anywhere and causing weight gain is more the exception than the rule. The number one cause for weight gain is eating too much.1 -
Yes. But that finding that animals gained weight 2.5 times faster is a shocking number. To be 2.5x more food efficient than normal is a huge difference to the CI you can consume and not gain weight. For example if I take my weight mx caloric intake of 1500 calories per day and divide it by 2.5, then I get 600 calories. What person is going to think 600 calories is anything other than a crash diet as opposed to sufficient calories to maintain weight? I'd have to exercise an extra 3hrs/900 calories worth a day just to maintain weight at the 1500 calorie level. If this is real it is very easy to imagine how a person could gradually become obese if they were infected with this virus.goodkoalie wrote: »It still comes down to CICO. Some medical conditions may cause the CO to lower, leading to weight gain, but obesity is still caused by eating over the amount of calories being burned.
Were the animals being fed the food that made them gain weight, or did they have to hunt/gather it themselves?1
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