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Should your S.O./Spouse have a say so if they feel you are too thin or too large?
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And here I thought people were just trying to say attraction isn't always or even usually purely physical for them, particularly in a long term relationship.
There's a lot of space between 'hubba hubba' and repulsive.
Actually no. Several people in the category where body shape does not matter much to them or that even physical attraction does not matter much to them, were/are trying to convince other people that they are somehow flawed if they are attracted to a certain type of body. The basic arguments I have been seeing going in rounds are "My partner is overweight/not conventionally handsome and I am still attracted to him" or "looks do not matter much to me", so "YOU should have the exact same preferences as I do, or something is wrong with you"1 -
glassofroses wrote: »mccord62803 wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »
^^That. That is why some of us are so flabbergasted that anyone would dump someone over what is not even a significant weight gain. Because we understand being in love with the person Not the package they come in.
That Doctor Who quote exactly describes how I feel about my husband. To me he had the weirdest looking eyes when I first met him, but within fifteen minutes of talking to him, I thought he was one of the most handsome looking men I'd ever laid eyes on. I remember watching that episode and getting all the feels because of that.
I have a little more extreme story that I'm not proud of. I will never ever admit this outloud and it's probably the only lie that I will consistently stick to and never confess to my husband.... I mocked his looks after I first met him. I made fun of him. I was 17 and with friends so just being immature and trying to be funny, I guess. My friend had said something bad about how he looked after he left and I joined in. I am deeply ashamed.
Anyway, we became friends because he would not stop calling me every day. Lol. Just friends. Then best friends...and then one day suddenly more. It was a little strange to me because he was so different physically to what I was normally attracted to. Suddenly I was noticing how blue his eyes were and how deep his voice was. He was the funniest person I had ever met. Genuinely funny and quick witted.
My friends literally held an intervention for me telling me that I deserved better and I could find better. They wanted to know why I thought I needed to settle. This was all based purely on what he looked like. They weren't interested in how he treated me. I actually let them talk me into breaking up with him. He still didn't give up on me and we stayed best friends. Eventually friends with benefits and then of course we became a couple again. Out of a last ditch effort to sabotage things, my friend called him and told him what I had said about him that first time after I met him. He came over and asked me about it. I could see the hurt on his face. I looked him right in the eyes and lied through my teeth. Called my friend a jealous liar.
14 years of marriage and 3 kids later and I would still lie my face off if it ever came up again.
I would have done the same, a) because your husband sounds like a sweetheart, and b) what kind of friend would put you in that position? They obviously didn't love you because they would have seen how happy you were and supported you. I wouldn't give them the time of day after that. Jealous rings very true here even if you saying you didn't say what you said didn't.
Oh yeah, she was awful. When I think about the things she did and said back then I wonder why I was ever friends with her. Every guy that I liked back then, she'd sleep with. We were friends all through our teen years and I rarely had a boyfriend because she'd sleep with any guy that expressed interest in me. We wouldn't talk for awhile but eventually she'd give me her talk "It's not my fault, it's this damn pretty face of mine!" That's an actual quote. Lol.
I believe that the biggest reason she was so against this relationship was because he had originally been her friend and calling her every day but then stopped once he met me. She wasn't attracted to him in any way but it drove her crazy that someone would prefer me over her. We honestly had issues with her even shortly after our marriage until I eventually distanced myself from her.
She still contacts me every few years. She talks about how proud she is that she's the reason I met my husband. Lol.
Unfortunately, she has not had much luck with relationships.
Also, yes my husband is very sweet. He's a wonderful father and husband. He's one of those very rare people who actually really does love doing things for others. He's always planning things for our kids and surprising me. He loves to plan surprises.
10 -
My hubby met me at my heaviest, watched me lose the weight and get into the best shape of my life, and then watched me slowly gain all the weight back plus more! He loves me regardless.
He does lovingly say that he wants me to feel good and be healthy. He doesn't like that when I'm heavy, I'm less confident, I don't feel good in my clothes, etc. So he encourages me to workout, but we do it together!
He also has his own weight loss/fitness goals, so we run together, go to the gym together, and cook together. I recognize this isn't everyone's situation, so I feel very blessed
10 -
And here I thought people were just trying to say attraction isn't always or even usually purely physical for them, particularly in a long term relationship.
There's a lot of space between 'hubba hubba' and repulsive.
Actually no. Several people in the category where body shape does not matter much to them or that even physical attraction does not matter much to them, were/are trying to convince other people that they are somehow flawed if they are attracted to a certain type of body. The basic arguments I have been seeing going in rounds are "My partner is overweight/not conventionally handsome and I am still attracted to him" or "looks do not matter much to me", so "YOU should have the exact same preferences as I do, or something is wrong with you"
I disagree, but not surprise there.
I do have a friend this thread made me think of - beautiful, blonde, petite, and could have had her pick of men. She married a morbidly obese man. Not normal or slightly heavy and then gained 'happy weight' but morbidly obese from the beginning. I admit to having passing thoughts of how that happens, but by all appearances they are happy and functional and have 4 kids together so something is obviously working for them
But that's an outlier. It seems like in general people tend to pair up with other people of relatively equal attractiveness. 4 -
And here I thought people were just trying to say attraction isn't always or even usually purely physical for them, particularly in a long term relationship.
There's a lot of space between 'hubba hubba' and repulsive.
Actually no. Several people in the category where body shape does not matter much to them or that even physical attraction does not matter much to them, were/are trying to convince other people that they are somehow flawed if they are attracted to a certain type of body. The basic arguments I have been seeing going in rounds are "My partner is overweight/not conventionally handsome and I am still attracted to him" or "looks do not matter much to me", so "YOU should have the exact same preferences as I do, or something is wrong with you"
I disagree, but not surprise there.
I do have a friend this thread made me think of - beautiful, blonde, petite, and could have had her pick of men. She married a morbidly obese man. Not normal or slightly heavy and then gained 'happy weight' but morbidly obese from the beginning. I admit to having passing thoughts of how that happens, but by all appearances they are happy and functional and have 4 kids together so something is obviously working for them But that's an outlier. It seems like in general people tend to pair up with other people of relatively equal attractiveness.
I did this. I won't say that I'm beautiful and I'm definitely not blond but I was considered quite cute back in the day. Lol. I was at a healthy weight and he was 6'3 and probably over 300 lbs.
I was never attracted to overweight men. We met over the phone. I was told he was "a fat guy" but I wasn't interested in a romantic relationship anyway so I didn't care. We talked about our days and our interests. Had lively debates. I didn't mean to fall in love with him at all. I fought it pretty hard. There was just something about him that kept drawing me back.
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And here I thought people were just trying to say attraction isn't always or even usually purely physical for them, particularly in a long term relationship.
There's a lot of space between 'hubba hubba' and repulsive.
That's what I thought. There was no pushback against the idea that physical attraction plays a role initially. The pushback was against statements that if a longterm partner went from a normal weight to overweight -- specifically, a BMI of 25 -- that person would stop being attractive to the partner at all, so the relationship would be over.
I don't question that if a person changes dramatically (including in ways other than physical) that it will affect the relationship. I do think a good, real relationship shouldn't be such that becoming overweight alone would be a deal-breaker, because there is so much there and typically (for me) other things outweigh just physical appearance in determining whether someone is attractive at that stage of the relationship. So, honestly, I'm seeing the line drawing as more related to other feelings about someone who would let themselves become overweight.
But absolutely people are different, not my business, and so long as someone is upfront about it I don't really care (although I would advise people to run away if someone said the relationship would be that conditional, even if they didn't plan to gain weight).
I think the posts weren't really about trying to convince so much as trying to understand or explain why it was hard for them to understand.5 -
My husband and I have both gained and lost weight throughout our marriage. We love each other no matter what. There's a lot more to true love than screwing and good looks. We're best friends, we support each other in various ways. We fell in love with each other for our personalities and kindness, for our similarities and differences. We share every emotion.
I'd be miserable with anyone who would tell me to gtfo or be nasty to me after gaining 10lbs. Those shallow narcissists are not worth my damn time.
Weight can change but *kitten* are forever.6 -
This is an interesting review of scientific studies related to the matter: http://www.academia.edu/23879906/Attraction_in_Marriage_The_Role_of_Physical_Attraction_in_Long-Term_Relationships
It has some interesting points, in both how relationships start and how they evolve and is focused a lot on weight related issues2 -
And here I thought people were just trying to say attraction isn't always or even usually purely physical for them, particularly in a long term relationship.
There's a lot of space between 'hubba hubba' and repulsive.
Actually no. Several people in the category where body shape does not matter much to them or that even physical attraction does not matter much to them, were/are trying to convince other people that they are somehow flawed if they are attracted to a certain type of body. The basic arguments I have been seeing going in rounds are "My partner is overweight/not conventionally handsome and I am still attracted to him" or "looks do not matter much to me", so "YOU should have the exact same preferences as I do, or something is wrong with you"
This is an accurate observation.0 -
It might be worth mentioning that most adults in the U.S. and in many other western countries are overweight or obese. And the vast majority of them are married and have made babies.
As a matter of fact, most adults in the whole world are not attractive at all. They're mostly rather ugly, physically speaking - even if they're not fat. Again, the vast majority of them are married with offspring.
Yes, yes. I know there are some exceptions. I'm just talking about the 85% majority. Through it all, people choose to tolerate each others' grossness and get together anyway - over the long term even!
One can only presume people who have the luxury of placing such a high value on conventional physical attractiveness offer something of equal or greater value as a partner than the average individual. Most of us mere ordinary humans recognize that we are rather imperfect in a number of ways, and accept our partners as such.
7 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »
^^That. That is why some of us are so flabbergasted that anyone would dump someone over what is not even a significant weight gain. Because we understand being in love with the person Not the package they come in.
The quote actually says "Not bad. They are Ok". It does not say "They look disgusting (to me, depending on who I am)". No offense, but I think that believing you can feel attracted to someone despite the physical aspect, it is something only happens in young adult novels, or romances targeted to older women who would like to think that them no longer looking good does not matter (yes, this is me, I am not judging older women).
It is not all about the looks, someone who just is ok can be very attractive based on personality. But someone who looks (again, based on each individual's personal standards) repulsive? Not likely.
Exactly.
Personality can't override it if someone is physically unattractive to me. If looking at them is a turnoff, that's not a thing I can just ignore or override because they're nice of funny or smart. I can be friends with someone I'm not attracted to. Might even love them. But it will be platonic, not romantic, unless the physical attraction is there. It precludes a monogamous commitment to them.
It's funny that these examples of fictional stories have been brought up to show that looks don't matter, but in every single one of them it's a normal weight man talking to a normal weight woman. None of them are overweight or obese. The author of Fifty Shades is an obese middle aged woman who wrote a fantasy story about an abusive relationship she calls BDSM, but she made the female main character young and thin. It's not a story about a young, fit, physically healthy billionaire falling in love with an obese woman. Why not? Probably because that wouldn't sell millions of books and become a movie that anyone would pay to see.
Physical attraction matters. To what degree it does varies between individuals, but evolution wired us to get turned on by markers of good health and turned off by markers that indicate poor health. Being overweight or obese is not a signifier of good health. It isn't unreasonable to have physical sexual attraction be a deal breaker in a monogamous relationship. It's logical to not promise sexual fidelity to someone who doesn't meet your sexual needs, and regardless of what anyone has said in this thread, I think it's fair to actually discuss that with your partner even if it comes to ending the relationship.
Regardless of what's been said in this thread?
People have shared stories of relationships that haven't ended over these issues.
You might think it's fair, obviously other people don't.
And I'll go you one better. You evolution argument? It's pants. My husband was very overweight when I met him. I fell for the man he was. He's about 50 pounds thinner now, 30 years later, than he was when I first met him.
Bottom line? Keep speaking just for yourself. You do you. That's your prerogative. My Nan used to say every pot had a lid. I'm sure someone out there will meet your stringent standards one of these days.
So, you are saying that you are attracted to overweight people or that weight is not important to you. Great, this is the same for many people. But why should it be the same for everyone?
I'm not saying it should be the same for everyone. I'm saying that her argument didn't hold up universally.0 -
And here I thought people were just trying to say attraction isn't always or even usually purely physical for them, particularly in a long term relationship.
There's a lot of space between 'hubba hubba' and repulsive.
Actually no. Several people in the category where body shape does not matter much to them or that even physical attraction does not matter much to them, were/are trying to convince other people that they are somehow flawed if they are attracted to a certain type of body. The basic arguments I have been seeing going in rounds are "My partner is overweight/not conventionally handsome and I am still attracted to him" or "looks do not matter much to me", so "YOU should have the exact same preferences as I do, or something is wrong with you"
No. You are misunderstanding what's happening in this thread, I think.
We're arguing about the sudden dumping after time.
The physical attraction at first blush thing came later. I didn't, in fact, think my husband was all that attractive when I first met him.
However, what you're reading into this, or inferring here, is the bit "and you should do the same thing".
What's being said is "we don't grok this ish" - that "ish" being dumping a partner after two months of not making an effort to lose weight in a long standing relationship.2 -
heiliskrimsli wrote: »And here I thought people were just trying to say attraction isn't always or even usually purely physical for them, particularly in a long term relationship.
There's a lot of space between 'hubba hubba' and repulsive.
Actually no. Several people in the category where body shape does not matter much to them or that even physical attraction does not matter much to them, were/are trying to convince other people that they are somehow flawed if they are attracted to a certain type of body. The basic arguments I have been seeing going in rounds are "My partner is overweight/not conventionally handsome and I am still attracted to him" or "looks do not matter much to me", so "YOU should have the exact same preferences as I do, or something is wrong with you"
This is an accurate observation.
No, no it's not. You're inferring that.
We're attempting to understand you're thinking because it's hard to wrap our minds around it.3 -
It might be worth mentioning that most adults in the U.S. and in many other western countries are overweight or obese. And the vast majority of them are married and have made babies.
As a matter of fact, most adults in the whole world are not attractive at all. They're mostly rather ugly, physically speaking - even if they're not fat. Again, the vast majority of them are married with offspring.
Yes, yes. I know there are some exceptions. I'm just talking about the 85% majority. Through it all, people choose to tolerate each others' grossness and get together anyway - over the long term even!
Physical attraction is not the same as being beautiful from an artistic point of view. Someone can look beautiful and yet not be attractive and of course the opposite. I have no idea where the 85% of people being ugly comes from, and this is how you feel and you need to compromise in sexual partners and tolerate what you perceive as their grossness, I am very sorry for you. To me, very few people are ugly, most people, and especially young people, are beautiful to me eyes or at least have some beautiful features.
By the way, this is not a site frequented by Americans only. I have no idea if it truly is as hard as you say to find a normal weight partner in US, and in this case, I would expect that obesity is somehow normalised if this is true?2 -
It might be worth mentioning that most adults in the U.S. and in many other western countries are overweight or obese. And the vast majority of them are married and have made babies.
As a matter of fact, most adults in the whole world are not attractive at all. They're mostly rather ugly, physically speaking - even if they're not fat. Again, the vast majority of them are married with offspring.
Yes, yes. I know there are some exceptions. I'm just talking about the 85% majority. Through it all, people choose to tolerate each others' grossness and get together anyway - over the long term even!
One can only presume people who have the luxury of placing such a high value on conventional physical attractiveness offer something of equal or greater value as a partner than the average individual. Most of us mere ordinary humans recognize that we are rather imperfect in a number of ways, and accept our partners as such.
So much this!!!!!! You better be rocking a damn 8 pack if you expect such high standards out of me.5 -
It might be worth mentioning that most adults in the U.S. and in many other western countries are overweight or obese. And the vast majority of them are married and have made babies.
As a matter of fact, most adults in the whole world are not attractive at all. They're mostly rather ugly, physically speaking - even if they're not fat. Again, the vast majority of them are married with offspring.
Yes, yes. I know there are some exceptions. I'm just talking about the 85% majority. Through it all, people choose to tolerate each others' grossness and get together anyway - over the long term even!
One can only presume people who have the luxury of placing such a high value on conventional physical attractiveness offer something of equal or greater value as a partner than the average individual. Most of us mere ordinary humans recognize that we are rather imperfect in a number of ways, and accept our partners as such.Chef_Barbell wrote: »It might be worth mentioning that most adults in the U.S. and in many other western countries are overweight or obese. And the vast majority of them are married and have made babies.
As a matter of fact, most adults in the whole world are not attractive at all. They're mostly rather ugly, physically speaking - even if they're not fat. Again, the vast majority of them are married with offspring.
Yes, yes. I know there are some exceptions. I'm just talking about the 85% majority. Through it all, people choose to tolerate each others' grossness and get together anyway - over the long term even!
One can only presume people who have the luxury of placing such a high value on conventional physical attractiveness offer something of equal or greater value as a partner than the average individual. Most of us mere ordinary humans recognize that we are rather imperfect in a number of ways, and accept our partners as such.
So much this!!!!!! You better be rocking a damn 8 pack if you expect such high standards out of me.
I am a reasonably fit person of normal weight. I expect the same of a partner.It might be worth mentioning that most adults in the U.S. and in many other western countries are overweight or obese. And the vast majority of them are married and have made babies.
As a matter of fact, most adults in the whole world are not attractive at all. They're mostly rather ugly, physically speaking - even if they're not fat. Again, the vast majority of them are married with offspring.
Yes, yes. I know there are some exceptions. I'm just talking about the 85% majority. Through it all, people choose to tolerate each others' grossness and get together anyway - over the long term even!
Physical attraction is not the same as being beautiful from an artistic point of view. Someone can look beautiful and yet not be attractive and of course the opposite. I have no idea where the 85% of people being ugly comes from, and this is how you feel and you need to compromise in sexual partners and tolerate what you perceive as their grossness, I am very sorry for you. To me, very few people are ugly, most people, and especially young people, are beautiful to me eyes or at least have some beautiful features.
By the way, this is not a site frequented by Americans only. I have no idea if it truly is as hard as you say to find a normal weight partner in US, and in this case, I would expect that obesity is somehow normalised if this is true?
Obesity is normalized to the point that people who are healthy, normal weight and fit are frequently told to go eat a sandwich and that they look anorexic. Not being attracted to the overweight and obese means I've got about 33% of the population who are potentially attractive out of the gate, so it narrows the field a lot.
As far as people's characterization of ending a relationship instantly, or after "two months" without losing weight, I think that's more about how they want to view me than it is about me. It takes longer than two months to go from fit to overweight, and it's not like I'd wait until my bags are packed to bring it up. If after multiple discussions about weight gain and the effects on the relationship nothing changes at all, my choice is to end the relationship due to the lack of attraction no loss of compatibility. The other options for me are to be abstinent or cheat, both of which I find more distasteful than splitting up.5 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »And here I thought people were just trying to say attraction isn't always or even usually purely physical for them, particularly in a long term relationship.
There's a lot of space between 'hubba hubba' and repulsive.
Actually no. Several people in the category where body shape does not matter much to them or that even physical attraction does not matter much to them, were/are trying to convince other people that they are somehow flawed if they are attracted to a certain type of body. The basic arguments I have been seeing going in rounds are "My partner is overweight/not conventionally handsome and I am still attracted to him" or "looks do not matter much to me", so "YOU should have the exact same preferences as I do, or something is wrong with you"
No. You are misunderstanding what's happening in this thread, I think.
We're arguing about the sudden dumping after time.
The physical attraction at first blush thing came later. I didn't, in fact, think my husband was all that attractive when I first met him.
However, what you're reading into this, or inferring here, is the bit "and you should do the same thing".
What's being said is "we don't grok this ish" - that "ish" being dumping a partner after two months of not making an effort to lose weight in a long standing relationship.
This was not my impression. The question was whether someone should comment on a romantic partner's weight gain or loss. One poster said that he/she would comment, explain that he/she is not attracted by the body changes, would expect these remarks to be heard and if nothing changed, he/she would eventually leave. The timeline, the sudden leaving a partner etc, I think these were mostly random assumptions.3 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »And here I thought people were just trying to say attraction isn't always or even usually purely physical for them, particularly in a long term relationship.
There's a lot of space between 'hubba hubba' and repulsive.
Actually no. Several people in the category where body shape does not matter much to them or that even physical attraction does not matter much to them, were/are trying to convince other people that they are somehow flawed if they are attracted to a certain type of body. The basic arguments I have been seeing going in rounds are "My partner is overweight/not conventionally handsome and I am still attracted to him" or "looks do not matter much to me", so "YOU should have the exact same preferences as I do, or something is wrong with you"
No. You are misunderstanding what's happening in this thread, I think.
We're arguing about the sudden dumping after time.
The physical attraction at first blush thing came later. I didn't, in fact, think my husband was all that attractive when I first met him.
However, what you're reading into this, or inferring here, is the bit "and you should do the same thing".
What's being said is "we don't grok this ish" - that "ish" being dumping a partner after two months of not making an effort to lose weight in a long standing relationship.
This was not my impression. The question was whether someone should comment on a romantic partner's weight gain or loss. One poster said that he/she would comment, explain that he/she is not attracted by the body changes, would expect these remarks to be heard and if nothing changed, he/she would eventually leave. The timeline, the sudden leaving a partner etc, I think these were mostly random assumptions.
There would be nothing sudden about it. Especially not since fitness and activities are a big part of sharing a common lifestyle in the first place, so those expectations are part of the conversation and relationship from day one. It's built into the things we do together. It's who we are, and why we're compatible in the first place.2 -
One poster said that he/she would comment, explain that he/she is not attracted by the body changes, would expect these remarks to be heard and if nothing changed, he/she would eventually leave. The timeline, the sudden leaving a partner etc, I think these were mostly random assumptions.
Lots of people said they would comment (most people, I think).
The timeline: say something after 5 lbs, say something after 10, leave if the person became overweight and didn't fix it after a month or two was specifically said in this thread. That's what largely provoked the discussion around that.
It's also really quite easy to still be active and into an active lifestyle and gain the weight necessary to be overweight (say, for me, from 125 to 142 or so). I think I look better at 125, but I've been at my most active and capable when a little overweight at times.5 -
heiliskrimsli wrote: »It might be worth mentioning that most adults in the U.S. and in many other western countries are overweight or obese. And the vast majority of them are married and have made babies.
As a matter of fact, most adults in the whole world are not attractive at all. They're mostly rather ugly, physically speaking - even if they're not fat. Again, the vast majority of them are married with offspring.
Yes, yes. I know there are some exceptions. I'm just talking about the 85% majority. Through it all, people choose to tolerate each others' grossness and get together anyway - over the long term even!
One can only presume people who have the luxury of placing such a high value on conventional physical attractiveness offer something of equal or greater value as a partner than the average individual. Most of us mere ordinary humans recognize that we are rather imperfect in a number of ways, and accept our partners as such.Chef_Barbell wrote: »It might be worth mentioning that most adults in the U.S. and in many other western countries are overweight or obese. And the vast majority of them are married and have made babies.
As a matter of fact, most adults in the whole world are not attractive at all. They're mostly rather ugly, physically speaking - even if they're not fat. Again, the vast majority of them are married with offspring.
Yes, yes. I know there are some exceptions. I'm just talking about the 85% majority. Through it all, people choose to tolerate each others' grossness and get together anyway - over the long term even!
One can only presume people who have the luxury of placing such a high value on conventional physical attractiveness offer something of equal or greater value as a partner than the average individual. Most of us mere ordinary humans recognize that we are rather imperfect in a number of ways, and accept our partners as such.
So much this!!!!!! You better be rocking a damn 8 pack if you expect such high standards out of me.
I am a reasonably fit person of normal weight. I expect the same of a partner.
You've made it clear that you are drawing the line at BMI 25 (unless the person is unusually muscular) and see even 24 as not great -- you said that in this thread. IMO, weight gain from 22 (or whatever) to 24 or 25 doesn't happen overnight unless something else is going on (it can happen during times of huge stress when I know I wouldn't be able to find useful a partner telling me I am getting fat on top of whatever else is up, even though I am working on being able to not react to stress with eating myself and have gotten much, much better). More often, of course, it happens somewhat gradually, but that's one reason why I find it hard to understand that you'd find gradual weight gain of that sort makes the person completely unattractive when this is someone you love and have a longterm relationship with, in theory.
But like I said before, your business. The reason I'm posting again is you say that you are reasonably fit and of a normal weight and expect that of a partner, but back in March (so not much more than a month ago) you posted you were 24.8. I get you are still losing weight, but given how recently you must have been overweight yourself, then, this does seem rather unforgiving or -- perhaps -- more about how you feel about yourself for having been overweight.9
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