Welcome to Debate Club! Please be aware that this is a space for respectful debate, and that your ideas will be challenged here. Please remember to critique the argument, not the author.

I don't support the fat acceptance/plus size movement.

12357…19

Replies

  • Macy9336
    Macy9336 Posts: 694 Member
    heiliskrimsli wrote: »
    Macy9336 wrote: »
    moya_bleh wrote: »
    I support every human's right to feel comfortable in their own skin regardless of weight, height, race, faith, gender, sexual orientation, health, disability, eye colour, hair colour, teeth straightness, favourite sports team etc.

    I don't support the fat acceptance movement - and the same rhetoric espoused by the fat acceptance movement has also crept into the body positivity movement - because it has turned into a cause filled with hypocrisy, entitlement and promotes an unhealthy lifestyle, often resorting to naming SCIENTIFIC FACT as 'fatphobia.' (see post above regarding Ragen Chastain telling a girl to ignore her doctor in the face of blindness)


    The hypocrisy of the FA movement is what gets me.

    Fat Acceptance/Body Positivity advocates will claim "My food intake has no bearing on my weight" while telling women under 200lbs to "eat a cheeseburger."

    FA/BP advocates will claim that "You're not a doctor, you can't make assumptions on my health based on my weight" while instantly diagnosing any woman under 200lbs with anorexia nervosa. Not only can they make a 100% accurate assumption on their health based on a photo, they can also judge their mental state, too. A FA/BP advocate posts a stream of selfies describing themselves as a "perfect, fierce, beautiful warrior Goddess" - perfectly fine. A slimmer woman posts a pic and she's "vain/shallow/stuck-up/conceited/attention seeking."

    FA/BP claim that fatphobia is lurking in every corner, but it's perfectly OK to call somebody a "skinny b*tch/twig/anorexic/body of a 12 year-old boy." Tearing others down to make yourself feel better? Really? If it's health at every size, then shouldn't that include people.....you know, of EVERY size?


    Posting all kinds of memes about "Real men" who will love every inch. All of said memes contain an overweight woman with a slimmer man. Dare to ask why they wouldn't date a man equally as overweight as they are and without a hint of irony, the reply will be "We shouldn't have to lower our standards." Do you what? They are right. Everybody IS entitled to their preferences, but when those preferences include a REQUIREMENT for people to bring qualities to the table that you yourself have no intention of displaying then it becomes unrealistic and reeks of entitlement. Again, the notion of "We deserve fit partners, but people as fat as me? They can go jump off a cliff onto a bed of spikes" highlights the hypocrisy of the fat acceptance/body positivity movement.




    I totally agree with you. My teen daughter is naturally very slim. She is constantly bombarded with nasty messages, especially the body of a twelve year old boy thing. She thinks her shoulders are bony and disgusting...hello shoulders are meant to be sculpted and are naturally going to be a bit bony because fat doesn't gather there unless you are overweight. But she's constantly being told by the FA militants that she's too skinny and therefore will never find a man who find her attractive. It's really damaging to young women and no different imho than espousing a size 00, heroin chic look. Both are unhealthy extremes. I wish that fashion and media would just show healthy BMI bodies....athletic and no athletic because healthy range is what is most attractive and what girls should aspire to.

    Size 00 and smaller now exist in part because while the size numbers have not changed, the actual size of the garments has. What was a size 8 in 1958 - when it was the smallest size made at a 23.5" waist and 31" bust - is smaller than a size 00 from 2011 with at 25" waist and 31" bust.
    The size inflation, known as vanity sizing, means the size number gets smaller, but the actual physical size of the clothing gets larger over time, but people just see the size number decreasing and are fooled into thinking this is now smaller.

    It's not. Vanity sizing is now getting worse.

    Completely agree on the vanity sizing. Case in point, in 2001, eight weeks after my first pregnancy/birth I went to buy new suits for my return to work. I was elated to find I was a size SMALLER than my prepregnancy size ( size 4 vs. size 6 US). Then I thought about it because I knew I had some excess skin...no amount of exercise can remove skin,,.so it was impossible for my waist to be smaller after having just had a baby. Yep..I'd been vanity sized down when I really had only shrunk down to slightly larger than my prepregancy waist size. The vanity sizing has kept getting worse...I've gone down another size to a size 2 and had another baby since then. I weigh the same now as I did prepregancy but I know for a fact my tummy area/waist is a little larger because there is a little bit of excess skin that wasn't there before. You can't see it when I stand up...but if I bend over...there's a little pooch. So today's size 2 is at least the size 6 of the 1990s based on my personal experience. You can see that the sizes have increased if you buy vintage clothes big time!
  • janejellyroll
    janejellyroll Posts: 25,763 Member
    heiliskrimsli wrote: »
    Macy9336 wrote: »
    moya_bleh wrote: »
    I support every human's right to feel comfortable in their own skin regardless of weight, height, race, faith, gender, sexual orientation, health, disability, eye colour, hair colour, teeth straightness, favourite sports team etc.

    I don't support the fat acceptance movement - and the same rhetoric espoused by the fat acceptance movement has also crept into the body positivity movement - because it has turned into a cause filled with hypocrisy, entitlement and promotes an unhealthy lifestyle, often resorting to naming SCIENTIFIC FACT as 'fatphobia.' (see post above regarding Ragen Chastain telling a girl to ignore her doctor in the face of blindness)


    The hypocrisy of the FA movement is what gets me.

    Fat Acceptance/Body Positivity advocates will claim "My food intake has no bearing on my weight" while telling women under 200lbs to "eat a cheeseburger."

    FA/BP advocates will claim that "You're not a doctor, you can't make assumptions on my health based on my weight" while instantly diagnosing any woman under 200lbs with anorexia nervosa. Not only can they make a 100% accurate assumption on their health based on a photo, they can also judge their mental state, too. A FA/BP advocate posts a stream of selfies describing themselves as a "perfect, fierce, beautiful warrior Goddess" - perfectly fine. A slimmer woman posts a pic and she's "vain/shallow/stuck-up/conceited/attention seeking."

    FA/BP claim that fatphobia is lurking in every corner, but it's perfectly OK to call somebody a "skinny b*tch/twig/anorexic/body of a 12 year-old boy." Tearing others down to make yourself feel better? Really? If it's health at every size, then shouldn't that include people.....you know, of EVERY size?


    Posting all kinds of memes about "Real men" who will love every inch. All of said memes contain an overweight woman with a slimmer man. Dare to ask why they wouldn't date a man equally as overweight as they are and without a hint of irony, the reply will be "We shouldn't have to lower our standards." Do you what? They are right. Everybody IS entitled to their preferences, but when those preferences include a REQUIREMENT for people to bring qualities to the table that you yourself have no intention of displaying then it becomes unrealistic and reeks of entitlement. Again, the notion of "We deserve fit partners, but people as fat as me? They can go jump off a cliff onto a bed of spikes" highlights the hypocrisy of the fat acceptance/body positivity movement.




    I totally agree with you. My teen daughter is naturally very slim. She is constantly bombarded with nasty messages, especially the body of a twelve year old boy thing. She thinks her shoulders are bony and disgusting...hello shoulders are meant to be sculpted and are naturally going to be a bit bony because fat doesn't gather there unless you are overweight. But she's constantly being told by the FA militants that she's too skinny and therefore will never find a man who find her attractive. It's really damaging to young women and no different imho than espousing a size 00, heroin chic look. Both are unhealthy extremes. I wish that fashion and media would just show healthy BMI bodies....athletic and no athletic because healthy range is what is most attractive and what girls should aspire to.

    Size 00 and smaller now exist in part because while the size numbers have not changed, the actual size of the garments has. What was a size 8 in 1958 - when it was the smallest size made at a 23.5" waist and 31" bust - is smaller than a size 00 from 2011 with at 25" waist and 31" bust.
    The size inflation, known as vanity sizing, means the size number gets smaller, but the actual physical size of the clothing gets larger over time, but people just see the size number decreasing and are fooled into thinking this is now smaller.

    It's not. Vanity sizing is now getting worse.

    Vanity sizing is out of control, at least in the places I shop. I am a 00 when I buy new clothes. When I buy or try on vintage clothing, I'm a medium or a small.
  • moya_bleh
    moya_bleh Posts: 1,375 Member
    WakkoW wrote: »
    Geocitiesuser wrote: »
    There are few things in this world that I hate, despite, and resent, more than the "HAES" / "Fat acceptance" movement. Absolutely infuriates me to unhealthy levels, for a list of reasons too long to list.

    Agreed.

    I wrote in another fat acceptance thread about how I was a 1970's fat kid and bullied because of it. If it had been around, my stupid, younger self would have probably would have embraced the HAES movement whole-heatedly. I am so happy I didn't have a bunch of crabs pulling me down telling lies about how great being fat is.

    Crabs in a bucket mentality. Summed up perfectly.
  • extra_medium
    extra_medium Posts: 1,525 Member
    Juniper3411 wrote: »
    xmichaelyx wrote: »
    ErinMichelle31 wrote: »
    The body positivity movement isn't about promoting being heavy, it's about teaching women to love themselves, and rejecting impossible body standards.

    Unless you're handicapped, there's no such thing as "impossible body standards." At its core, HAES is about giving up and accepting the status quo.



    The only problem I have with your statement is that there are certain body standards that aren't possible. I will never have long super thin legs. Obviously I can't lengthen my legs without some seriously painful surgery :) , and the other because of straight up genetics. I'm 5'4" and I have been as low as 120 pounds. Up top I look practically emaciated while my lower half looks normal. If I went to the lowest end of my weight range I would still carry more of my weight in my lower half, those are the breaks, I literally can't change that. People have different builds when they are in their healthy weight range, I'm an hourglass personally. So I guess I would just like that clarified that if you are somewhere in your healthy weight range that certain beauty aesthetics may still be out of reach forever.

    The good news is that most of those "standards" are hardly standard or universal. The only real standard is that most people usually want to look differently than they currently do. So the person with skinny legs wants an hourglass figure and vice versa.
  • Geocitiesuser
    Geocitiesuser Posts: 1,429 Member
    As for HAES, I've never met a real life one in the wild.

    You are fortunate.
  • calorielogonly
    calorielogonly Posts: 16 Member
    edited May 2017
    I agree that being overweight is not ideal and eventually leads to health issues. As I've said before, I've been yo-yo dieting since age of 12, and weight loss has taken up a good portion of my obsession, followed by falling off the wagon, followed by weight gain, followed by self hatred, followed by giving up, followed by at some point feeling good enough about myself to start over, followed by weight loss, followed by giving up..... It's been going on like this for 29 years now, I'm 41 years old. In my late 20's was my largest weight loss, when I actually went from 265 lbs. to 145 lbs. I'm not afraid of exercise. I was actually on the cross country running team in high school, never one of those little toothpick shaped high school girl runners, but a healthy runner, nonetheless. Well, sort of healthy, I wouldn't eat with my family because I only wanted to eat oatmeal made with apples, cinnamon, artificial sweetener and water that was like a paste that I made in the microwave. I was obsessed with being fat since it seemed like so many other people my age were toothpicks. I fluctuate between being somewhat athletic and being obese. To be clear, before anyone gets upset with me for claiming to be (for the time being) an "HAES" who isn't part of the "movement"....by the way, just learned about the "movement" yesterday..... I'm on here to lose weight. I'm logging my calories and working out every day. So don't get too upset by this....

    Does anyone want to see an eff-ing medical miracle? This is my blood work from a couple of months ago before I got back on the wagon. I procrastinated about getting my blood work because I thought for sure being obese would have caught up to me by now. This is my blood work copied and pasted from the online database...pretty cool that we can look up our results online now, rather than just wait for the doctor to say the numbers were normal, or not, or whatever.


    41 years old, female, 232 lbs (Actually, I think I was 245 or 250 at the time of the bloodwork, but current weight is 232 lbs.)

    (copied and pasted)

    Cholesterol 187 mg/dL mg/dL
    REFERENCE RANGE: < 200 Desirable
    200-239 Borderline High
    > 240 High
    Triglycerides 59 mg/dL mg/dL
    REFERENCE RANGE: < 150 Normal
    150-199 Borderline High
    200-499 High
    > 500 Very High
    HDL 57 mg/dL mg/dL
    REFERENCE RANGE: < 40 Low
    > 60 High
    LDL Calculated 118 mg/dL mg/dL
    REFERENCE RANGE: < 100 Optimal
    100-129 Near or above optimal
    130-159 Borderline High
    160-189 High
    > 189 Very High
    Non HDL Cholesterol 130 mg/dL mg/dL
    Target is 30mg/dl above(or over) LDL goal
    Chol/HDL Ratio 3.3
    General Information
    Collected:
    02/17/2017 8:32 AM
    Resulted:
    02/17/2017 12:19 PM

    Component
    Your Value
    Standard Range
    Glucose 94 mg/dL 60 - 99 mg/dL
    Reference Ranges apply only to FASTING samples.
    ADA Guidelines Blood Sugar Levels for Diagnosing Diabetes & Pre-diabetes
    Normal: < 100 mg/dL
    Impaired Fasting Glucose (IFG): 100-125 mg/dL
    Diabetes: > 126 mg/dL on two different occasions
    Sodium 138 mmol/L 133 - 145 mmol/L
    Potassium 4.2 mmol/L 3.3 - 5.1 mmol/L
    Chloride 103 mmol/L 96 - 108 mmol/L
    CO2 22 mmol/L 20 - 28 mmol/L
    Anion Gap 13 7 - 16
    UN 7 mg/dL 6 - 20 mg/dL
    Creatinine 0.72 mg/dL 0.51 - 0.95 mg/dL
    GFR,Caucasian 104 * *
    GFR,Black 120 * *
    *UNITS=mL/min/1.73 square meters
    Calcium 8.6 mg/dL 8.8 - 10.2 mg/dL
    General Information
    Collected:
    02/17/2017 8:32 AM
    Resulted:
    02/17/2017 12:19 PM

    Anyway, I would say not too bad for a 41 year old 232 lb. female. I know being fat, if I were to continue being fat, will catch up with me eventually....but these are the numbers from a few months ago. Since I have been exercising and watching my diet almost religiously, If I were to have the blood work done again today, these numbers would be better than this now.
    The only number that is off is my thyroid, I just found out in March that I'm hypothyroid, not sure how long this has been going on, my Dr. doesn't normally order this blood test for me. I hear it's one of the most common medical conditions.

    Component
    Your Value
    Standard Range
    TSH 10.23 uIU/mL 0.27 - 4.20 uIU/mL
    TSH 10.23 uIU/mL 0.27 - 4.20 uIU/mL
    General Information
    Collected:
    03/17/2017 6:58 AM
    Resulted:
    03/17/2017 11:27 AM

    I just started the minimum amount of levothyroxine in March and my follow up bloodwork is going to be later this week. I guess it takes a while to get the levels right, this is all new to me. I'm not sure how it's going to effect me, I'm hoping it gives me more energy when my levels are right. And no...I'm not blaming this on my weight. I read up on it after I found out I had it, it could be to blame for a few lbs, but not the whole thing. Apparently a lot of people have it.
  • calorielogonly
    calorielogonly Posts: 16 Member
    wsandy8512 wrote: »
    I think the basic message of the movement is great, "love yourself", but where it's heading lately is what object to...

    "Real women have curves", "Real men prefer meat, not bones", "Why don't they show a 'real' woman in that bathing suit (when the model isn't heavy)", etc.

    It's turned from a loving yourself regardless of overweight/obese campaign, to bashing women of normal and healthy weights. "Real" women come in all shapes and sizes, period.

    Agreed. This, I understand. No need to bash skinny people, we are all different.
  • calorielogonly
    calorielogonly Posts: 16 Member
    Gimsteinn1 wrote: »
    I don't agree with you. You can be fat and healthy. Actually, the woman who got me into the fit lifestyle can run for miles, she can do splits, pull ups and moves like a ballerina... yet she's very overweight but still more fit than I am and super healthy.

    But promoting an unhealthy lifestyle with bad food choices and no exercise, now that's a whole different thing.

    Being fat doesn't equal being unhealthy or unfit
    Being skinny doesn't equal being healthy or fit

    You can be skinny but very unhealthy
    You can be fat and unhealthy
    But you can also be skinny + fit and healthy and you can be fat + fit and healthy.

    I think you're just starting your fitness journey and that you've got lot's to learn.

    True.
  • calorielogonly
    calorielogonly Posts: 16 Member
    purebredpolly wrote: »
    Guess what? I went to the doctor today to review my blood workup, turns out them adjusting my thyroid meds for my Grave disease, coupled with the onset of menopause has made it impossible for my weight to budge despite following a strict diet for over a year. I eat really healthy, my LDL is 114. My blood sugar is a 6.6. My blood pressure was 117/76. But I am 212 pounds by his scale today. He said there are a few medications that might help me shed a few pounds, but the side effects could be devastating to my health, and he would not recommend me taking them. Turns out my risk factors are higher using this medication, and being at a lower weight, than me remaining the same weight I am now, and continuing to eat a healthy diet.

    So what does that mean? That means I better get on board with fat acceptance, and learn how to love myself at this size, and continue to take care of myself as I have been.

    Sometimes I think it's important to think before one speaks about such things. You don't agree with fat acceptance for yourself, well and fine by me, don't be fat then. But don't be putting it off on other folks. You don't know what a person's story is, or why they are fat, and running that anti fat acceptance speech is very unhelpful to folks like me just trying to make it through the day by eating healthy, and keeping the calories down so the scale does not go higher. Think before you speak why don't you!

    Well said! I like it.
This discussion has been closed.

Categories