Brad Schoenfeld - Facts and Fallacies of Fat Loss
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mrsnattybulking wrote: »I don't understand the part about the thermic effect of digesting protein. If that's the case why wouldn't the low carb group lose more than the non low carb group under controlled circumstances... same cals etc? Like I understand they were all capped at 100g protein but if one were to consume MORE protein in relation to the same cals wouldn't they have a deeper deficit over time?
1) Protein was held equal, so they were consuming the same amounts of protein - thus TEF was about the same.
2) As Brad discussed, the TEF of a mixed meal (mixed macros within the meal) is considered to be around 10%. Protein is rarely consumed to the exclusion of all other macronutrients while in a fasted state.
3) For the TEF to be anywhere near significant in terms of calorie expenditure, one would have to make a ridiculous adjustment in the amount of protein they ate. And such adjustments wouldn't be made in a ketogenic diet in the first place because protein is as insulogenic as carbohydrates, and would knock you out of ketosis.
[ETA:] More in depth discussion of TEF here from another source (Lyle McDonald): http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/metabolic-rate-overview.html
Excerpt:About the only time that TEF can become considerable is when you replace carbohydrates or fat with protein. For every 100 calories of carbs/fat replaced with protein, you’d expect to burn about 25 calories more (30 cal for protein vs. 3-6 for carbs/fat). So a doubling of protein from 60 to 120 grams/day might increase TEF by 80 calories/day. Triple it to 180 grams/day and TEF could increase by 150 calories. The 20-30% TEF of protein can become even more significant at extreme intakes. However, for the most part, such extreme intakes aren’t practical or used outside of the bodybuilding subculture. In all but the most extreme diets, protein stays fairly static and carbs and fats are shuffled around; the effect is typically minimal in terms of TEF.5 -
This is awesome. Thanks for sharing!0
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mrsnattybulking wrote: »I don't understand the part about the thermic effect of digesting protein. If that's the case why wouldn't the low carb group lose more than the non low carb group under controlled circumstances... same cals etc? Like I understand they were all capped at 100g protein but if one were to consume MORE protein in relation to the same cals wouldn't they have a deeper deficit over time?
AnvilHead's answer is right on, but to make it more simple still, low carbers don't eat more protein than non low carbers who are focused on getting adequate protein (and maybe not even then). On low carb I eat my .8 g/lb of protein or LBM (close to the same thing), and that's what I eat when not low carbing.
Someone who does a strict form of keto might even eat less protein than a lot of non low carbers who are as focused on protein as seems to be common around here (keto's default recommendation is 20% protein, which is lower than the MFP default).
However, one reason some low carb v. low fat studies get messed up is that the "low carb" group has more protein when you look at the breakdowns.4 -
Thanks guys! That makes more sense0
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Excellent vid @AnvilHead . I'm always so relieved somehow to find out I do know what I'm spouting on about and that I'm not just spouting nonsense or flat out misinterpreting things!!3
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Really good. Thanks for sharing that link. Confirms that it's all pretty simple; many of the things people get worked up about are just minutia.2
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From the comments here I am looking forward to having a spare 50 minutes to watch this. Thanks for the link.1
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This is more reason why I feel Dr. Schoenfeld is one of the best in the community. Great video.3
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Fantastic! Thank you for sharing.0
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Very nice - - watching now0
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I have been okay with the fact that my TDEE will be lower as I continue to lose some more weight - that makes sense to me purely because I will be less heavy, so my body is doing less work to move me around, and because of increased exercise efficiency. However, I was worried about what he was saying in regards to the "greater than predicted decrease in resting energy expenditure of 250 to 300 calories per day." That really does seem like a lot - I would appreciate if someone could link me to more information about this.
I am also confused about the point he was making with the Oprah Effect. It seemed to me that he was including it as anecdotal evidence that being in a deficit can have a huge negative impact on metabolism.
But he did not address that those 10 pounds she gained would have comprised of increased water retention as she returned to solid foods; or the fact that a previously-obese woman who deprived herself of food for so long said she "returned to real food" which could easily have meant that she returned to her old habits that led to that obesity (plus maybe even a massive increase in food to satisfy cravings after so long!) which would have had a big impact on the scale.
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Great video, thank you for posting.0
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I have been okay with the fact that my TDEE will be lower as I continue to lose some more weight - that makes sense to me purely because I will be less heavy, so my body is doing less work to move me around, and because of increased exercise efficiency. However, I was worried about what he was saying in regards to the "greater than predicted decrease in resting energy expenditure of 250 to 300 calories per day." That really does seem like a lot - I would appreciate if someone could link me to more information about this.
I am also confused about the point he was making with the Oprah Effect. It seemed to me that he was including it as anecdotal evidence that being in a deficit can have a huge negative impact on metabolism.
But he did not address that those 10 pounds she gained would have comprised of increased water retention as she returned to solid foods; or the fact that a previously-obese woman who deprived herself of food for so long said she "returned to real food" which could easily have meant that she returned to her old habits that led to that obesity (plus maybe even a massive increase in food to satisfy cravings after so long!) which would have had a big impact on the scale.
Have a search for adaptive thermogensis to answer your first question.0 -
I watched it all last night... nothing I didn't already know but it's such a great compilation. If ANYONE took 50 minutes to invest in that video they would be very well served and it would save them months, maybe years, of trial and error... or worse; giving up. Thanks again!0
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More in depth discussion of TEF here from another source (Lyle McDonald): http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/metabolic-rate-overview.html
A very good explanation in this article of what accounts for "metabolism" (including, RMR, TEF, TEA and adaptive effects).
Makes it clear why no single approach to diet/exercise to achieve weight loss will work for everyone.
Thanks for the link.0 -
gonna watch later...I have been okay with the fact that my TDEE will be lower as I continue to lose some more weight - that makes sense to me purely because I will be less heavy, so my body is doing less work to move me around, and because of increased exercise efficiency. However, I was worried about what he was saying in regards to the "greater than predicted decrease in resting energy expenditure of 250 to 300 calories per day." That really does seem like a lot - I would appreciate if someone could link me to more information about this.
I am also confused about the point he was making with the Oprah Effect. It seemed to me that he was including it as anecdotal evidence that being in a deficit can have a huge negative impact on metabolism.
But he did not address that those 10 pounds she gained would have comprised of increased water retention as she returned to solid foods; or the fact that a previously-obese woman who deprived herself of food for so long said she "returned to real food" which could easily have meant that she returned to her old habits that led to that obesity (plus maybe even a massive increase in food to satisfy cravings after so long!) which would have had a big impact on the scale.
Your TDEE doesn't have to be lower...you can raise it with exercise.
BMR will be lower for sure...but that can be helped with building more muscle....
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