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What are your unpopular opinions about health / fitness?
Replies
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I would fully expect people who identify as libertarian to reject increasing regulations around product labeling, especially where there isn't a compelling argument as to how it will increase public safety. "It won't impact me personally" isn't a reason why a libertarian would accept the government creating additional legal requirements for businesses.8
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Mr_Healthy_Habits wrote: »Something else I don't understand...
What's it to you people whether or not the food industry is required to label Gmo's anyway?
How is it going to negatively effect you personally if a company is required to label their gmo products?
Guess what, if less people are buying their gmo products because of the label, that's a good thing for you gmo lovers because it will drive down the price right?
Labeling gmo products will not effect you negatively in any way, only positively... However, others do feel not labeling Gmo's could negatively effect them personally.
So who the hell are you, with no skin in the game, to tell everyone else they don't have a right to be informed about their products... And these are the same people who preach an ideology of libertarianism.
You have every right to be informed. Any company that wants to can label their products GMO free and you can buy solely those products.3 -
You people are right, oh poor Tyson, poor Nestlé, poor Kelloggs, why should these poor companies be forced to let Americans know what they did to the food we feed our children... The food industry, their the real victims here aren't they...?
Look people, here's the bottom line...
Labeling Gmo's would not effect you negatively in anyway, in fact to the contrary, labeling Gmo's only benefits you, even down to the cost of your own groceries.
But the fact is, these companies have billions of dollars behind them to convince you against your own interests.
17 -
Big is beautiful...(when said about obese people)
No it's not... It's heart disease, liver disease and many other illnesses breeding inside you because you can't control your cravings.
This isn't a dig it's a fact.
Those that are on here that are obese I would assume are here to improve themselves and to them I say I salute you.
To those that choose to continue without change, I am disturbed by you and your lack of love for the only body you'll ever have.
a.) plenty of fat ppl don't get those issues and plenty of thin people do... you know that. Why oversimplify?
b.) you can be disturbed all you want but I agree with you that the habits and behaviors that got them/us fat probably have to do with a lack of self love. Ergo, step 1 is finding yourself beautiful and lovable and step 2 is deciding that that means you're worth the work it takes to food prep, the work it takes to say no to excess food, it's all hard work. And if you don't first believe you're worth it... how do you ever love yourself enough to do it??? Sure, some people get stuck on step 1 and that may be a problem for them and possible others... but that doesn't mean it's not an important step.3 -
MJ2victory wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »ok I'm ready to weigh in on this (hahaha I crack myself up). Here are my unpopular opinions:
1. Weighing daily is unhealthy. (not to say it isn't tempting)
2. Weight loss should not be your objective. It's a side affect of making healthier choices.
3. Mental health is just as important as physical health (if not more).
4. If you lose weight bc you hate yourself, you will still hate yourself at your goal weight and you WILL gain it back.
Sometimes, losing weight (in and of itself) is the best thing a person can do for their health.
not if they're going to immediately gain it back because they didn't deal with their relationship with food and the emotional baggage that may have caused them to gain the weight.
Who says they didn't deal with those issues as a means to the goal of losing weight?
like I said in my original post: my opinion is that weight loss should be a byproduct, not the goal. The goal is to feel better, be more physically able, not eat emotionally, love yourself, etc. Weight is just your relationship with gravity. If you make lifestyle changes, you may lose weight, but it's about the weakest measurement of health.
Obesity is detrimental to physical health. It's hardly a weak measurement of health. If a person is obese and they have an unhealthy relationship with food, then yes they need to deal with that unhealthy relationship in order to achieve the goal of overcoming obesity because obesity kills.
What a ridiculous oversimplification. There is a correlation between obesity and some illnesses. And do you remember what was talked about in high school about the dangers of assuming causation vs correlation?
No, obesity has been proven to CAUSE deaths. In 2015 four MILLION people died worldwide due to excess body weight. You'd really tout a high school lecture on correlation vs. causation as the authority trumping thousands of scientists and doctors worldwide? The science is very clear that obesity kills. You're deluded if you just think "weight is your relationship with gravity" and nothing more.
you can think my argument is stupid or disagree with me but no scientist is going to say that obesity causes death. Show me that article. They all say it's linked or it can lead to a cause of death. Your weight is the result of over eating and/or a sedentary lifestyle. Overeating and/or a sedentary lifestyle? leads to excess weight. leads to several causes of death. Obesity doesn't literally kill you.2 -
You can be an athlete and be a "stoner" at the same time.7
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MJ2victory wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »ok I'm ready to weigh in on this (hahaha I crack myself up). Here are my unpopular opinions:
1. Weighing daily is unhealthy. (not to say it isn't tempting)
2. Weight loss should not be your objective. It's a side affect of making healthier choices.
3. Mental health is just as important as physical health (if not more).
4. If you lose weight bc you hate yourself, you will still hate yourself at your goal weight and you WILL gain it back.
Sometimes, losing weight (in and of itself) is the best thing a person can do for their health.
not if they're going to immediately gain it back because they didn't deal with their relationship with food and the emotional baggage that may have caused them to gain the weight.
Who says they didn't deal with those issues as a means to the goal of losing weight?
like I said in my original post: my opinion is that weight loss should be a byproduct, not the goal. The goal is to feel better, be more physically able, not eat emotionally, love yourself, etc. Weight is just your relationship with gravity. If you make lifestyle changes, you may lose weight, but it's about the weakest measurement of health.
Obesity is detrimental to physical health. It's hardly a weak measurement of health. If a person is obese and they have an unhealthy relationship with food, then yes they need to deal with that unhealthy relationship in order to achieve the goal of overcoming obesity because obesity kills.
What a ridiculous oversimplification. There is a correlation between obesity and some illnesses. And do you remember what was talked about in high school about the dangers of assuming causation vs correlation?
No, obesity has been proven to CAUSE deaths. In 2015 four MILLION people died worldwide due to excess body weight. You'd really tout a high school lecture on correlation vs. causation as the authority trumping thousands of scientists and doctors worldwide? The science is very clear that obesity kills. You're deluded if you just think "weight is your relationship with gravity" and nothing more.
you can think my argument is stupid or disagree with me but no scientist is going to say that obesity causes death. Show me that article. They all say it's linked or it can lead to a cause of death. Your weight is the result of over eating and/or a sedentary lifestyle. Overeating and/or a sedentary lifestyle? leads to excess weight. leads to several causes of death. Obesity doesn't literally kill you.
Semantics. Obesity = excess fat. When fat is unnaturally abundant it wrecks havoc with several systems. It's not an idle organ that just hangs there minding its own business. The mere act of being obese increases the risk for the top killer diseases. Is an active obese better off than an inactive obese? Sure, but an active lean person has better chances than both.13 -
Mr_Healthy_Habits wrote: »It is true that people are much less likely to buy a product if it says "Contains Gmo's"
What I fail to understand is why all these "pro market", "Gov't should stay out of business" people are so afraid of letting the market decide what they want to consume.
All you people who are against labeling know damn well that if you walk into a store to buy dinner for your kids and see two versions of the same product at the same price and one says "Contains Gmo's" you're going to choose the other.
And if you don't care, thats okay, but plenty others do. Food labeling should not be something that is voted on, it should just be mandatory.
Seems you fail to understand the argument.
The market is free to label as it wants, as long as the claims you make are supported with evidence.
The issue many have with GMO labeling is the proposed requirement by government to enforce labeling of food over a matter which is not supported with evidence.
No. This would amount to seeing two products in a menu - one describing a glass of water and the other describing a glass of dihydrogen monoxide. The only difference being the ignorance of the consumer.
Any regulation should be based on facts and have a clear benefit to society, so no. I welcome evidence supporting your claim.3 -
amusedmonkey wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »ok I'm ready to weigh in on this (hahaha I crack myself up). Here are my unpopular opinions:
1. Weighing daily is unhealthy. (not to say it isn't tempting)
2. Weight loss should not be your objective. It's a side affect of making healthier choices.
3. Mental health is just as important as physical health (if not more).
4. If you lose weight bc you hate yourself, you will still hate yourself at your goal weight and you WILL gain it back.
Sometimes, losing weight (in and of itself) is the best thing a person can do for their health.
not if they're going to immediately gain it back because they didn't deal with their relationship with food and the emotional baggage that may have caused them to gain the weight.
Who says they didn't deal with those issues as a means to the goal of losing weight?
like I said in my original post: my opinion is that weight loss should be a byproduct, not the goal. The goal is to feel better, be more physically able, not eat emotionally, love yourself, etc. Weight is just your relationship with gravity. If you make lifestyle changes, you may lose weight, but it's about the weakest measurement of health.
Obesity is detrimental to physical health. It's hardly a weak measurement of health. If a person is obese and they have an unhealthy relationship with food, then yes they need to deal with that unhealthy relationship in order to achieve the goal of overcoming obesity because obesity kills.
What a ridiculous oversimplification. There is a correlation between obesity and some illnesses. And do you remember what was talked about in high school about the dangers of assuming causation vs correlation?
No, obesity has been proven to CAUSE deaths. In 2015 four MILLION people died worldwide due to excess body weight. You'd really tout a high school lecture on correlation vs. causation as the authority trumping thousands of scientists and doctors worldwide? The science is very clear that obesity kills. You're deluded if you just think "weight is your relationship with gravity" and nothing more.
you can think my argument is stupid or disagree with me but no scientist is going to say that obesity causes death. Show me that article. They all say it's linked or it can lead to a cause of death. Your weight is the result of over eating and/or a sedentary lifestyle. Overeating and/or a sedentary lifestyle? leads to excess weight. leads to several causes of death. Obesity doesn't literally kill you.
Semantics. Obesity = excess fat. When fat is unnaturally abundant it wrecks havoc with several systems. It's not an idle organ that just hangs there minding its own business. The mere act of being obese increases the risk for the top killer diseases. Is an active obese better off than an inactive obese? Sure, but an active lean person has better chances than both.
Semantics are important. Like the way you called fat people just "obese" and called thin people "lean person." Fun dehumanization in action. Why would "an obese" ever want to make healthy changes while being made to feel inhuman? We are not disagreeing, you just don't like my words. But they're important to me.9 -
MJ2victory wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »ok I'm ready to weigh in on this (hahaha I crack myself up). Here are my unpopular opinions:
1. Weighing daily is unhealthy. (not to say it isn't tempting)
2. Weight loss should not be your objective. It's a side affect of making healthier choices.
3. Mental health is just as important as physical health (if not more).
4. If you lose weight bc you hate yourself, you will still hate yourself at your goal weight and you WILL gain it back.
Sometimes, losing weight (in and of itself) is the best thing a person can do for their health.
not if they're going to immediately gain it back because they didn't deal with their relationship with food and the emotional baggage that may have caused them to gain the weight.
Who says they didn't deal with those issues as a means to the goal of losing weight?
like I said in my original post: my opinion is that weight loss should be a byproduct, not the goal. The goal is to feel better, be more physically able, not eat emotionally, love yourself, etc. Weight is just your relationship with gravity. If you make lifestyle changes, you may lose weight, but it's about the weakest measurement of health.
Obesity is detrimental to physical health. It's hardly a weak measurement of health. If a person is obese and they have an unhealthy relationship with food, then yes they need to deal with that unhealthy relationship in order to achieve the goal of overcoming obesity because obesity kills.
What a ridiculous oversimplification. There is a correlation between obesity and some illnesses. And do you remember what was talked about in high school about the dangers of assuming causation vs correlation?
No, obesity has been proven to CAUSE deaths. In 2015 four MILLION people died worldwide due to excess body weight. You'd really tout a high school lecture on correlation vs. causation as the authority trumping thousands of scientists and doctors worldwide? The science is very clear that obesity kills. You're deluded if you just think "weight is your relationship with gravity" and nothing more.
you can think my argument is stupid or disagree with me but no scientist is going to say that obesity causes death. Show me that article. They all say it's linked or it can lead to a cause of death. Your weight is the result of over eating and/or a sedentary lifestyle. Overeating and/or a sedentary lifestyle? leads to excess weight. leads to several causes of death. Obesity doesn't literally kill you.
Any scientist would disagree with you. Being too large for your organs and primary systems to sustain life fulfills all the criteria of a repeatable and provable fact.
Per NIH obesity and overweight together are the second leading cause of preventable death in the U.S.11 -
denversillygoose wrote: »You can be an athlete and be a "stoner" at the same time.
Rock Climbers.15 -
MJ2victory wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »ok I'm ready to weigh in on this (hahaha I crack myself up). Here are my unpopular opinions:
1. Weighing daily is unhealthy. (not to say it isn't tempting)
2. Weight loss should not be your objective. It's a side affect of making healthier choices.
3. Mental health is just as important as physical health (if not more).
4. If you lose weight bc you hate yourself, you will still hate yourself at your goal weight and you WILL gain it back.
Sometimes, losing weight (in and of itself) is the best thing a person can do for their health.
not if they're going to immediately gain it back because they didn't deal with their relationship with food and the emotional baggage that may have caused them to gain the weight.
Who says they didn't deal with those issues as a means to the goal of losing weight?
like I said in my original post: my opinion is that weight loss should be a byproduct, not the goal. The goal is to feel better, be more physically able, not eat emotionally, love yourself, etc. Weight is just your relationship with gravity. If you make lifestyle changes, you may lose weight, but it's about the weakest measurement of health.
Obesity is detrimental to physical health. It's hardly a weak measurement of health. If a person is obese and they have an unhealthy relationship with food, then yes they need to deal with that unhealthy relationship in order to achieve the goal of overcoming obesity because obesity kills.
What a ridiculous oversimplification. There is a correlation between obesity and some illnesses. And do you remember what was talked about in high school about the dangers of assuming causation vs correlation?
No, obesity has been proven to CAUSE deaths. In 2015 four MILLION people died worldwide due to excess body weight. You'd really tout a high school lecture on correlation vs. causation as the authority trumping thousands of scientists and doctors worldwide? The science is very clear that obesity kills. You're deluded if you just think "weight is your relationship with gravity" and nothing more.
you can think my argument is stupid or disagree with me but no scientist is going to say that obesity causes death. Show me that article. They all say it's linked or it can lead to a cause of death. Your weight is the result of over eating and/or a sedentary lifestyle. Overeating and/or a sedentary lifestyle? leads to excess weight. leads to several causes of death. Obesity doesn't literally kill you.
Semantics. Obesity = excess fat. When fat is unnaturally abundant it wrecks havoc with several systems. It's not an idle organ that just hangs there minding its own business. The mere act of being obese increases the risk for the top killer diseases. Is an active obese better off than an inactive obese? Sure, but an active lean person has better chances than both.
Semantics are important. Like the way you called fat people just "obese" and called thin people "lean person." Fun dehumanization in action. Why would "an obese" ever want to make healthy changes while being made to feel inhuman? We are not disagreeing, you just don't like my words. But they're important to me.
You're reading too much into it.7 -
MJ2victory wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »ok I'm ready to weigh in on this (hahaha I crack myself up). Here are my unpopular opinions:
1. Weighing daily is unhealthy. (not to say it isn't tempting)
2. Weight loss should not be your objective. It's a side affect of making healthier choices.
3. Mental health is just as important as physical health (if not more).
4. If you lose weight bc you hate yourself, you will still hate yourself at your goal weight and you WILL gain it back.
Sometimes, losing weight (in and of itself) is the best thing a person can do for their health.
not if they're going to immediately gain it back because they didn't deal with their relationship with food and the emotional baggage that may have caused them to gain the weight.
Who says they didn't deal with those issues as a means to the goal of losing weight?
like I said in my original post: my opinion is that weight loss should be a byproduct, not the goal. The goal is to feel better, be more physically able, not eat emotionally, love yourself, etc. Weight is just your relationship with gravity. If you make lifestyle changes, you may lose weight, but it's about the weakest measurement of health.
Obesity is detrimental to physical health. It's hardly a weak measurement of health. If a person is obese and they have an unhealthy relationship with food, then yes they need to deal with that unhealthy relationship in order to achieve the goal of overcoming obesity because obesity kills.
What a ridiculous oversimplification. There is a correlation between obesity and some illnesses. And do you remember what was talked about in high school about the dangers of assuming causation vs correlation?
No, obesity has been proven to CAUSE deaths. In 2015 four MILLION people died worldwide due to excess body weight. You'd really tout a high school lecture on correlation vs. causation as the authority trumping thousands of scientists and doctors worldwide? The science is very clear that obesity kills. You're deluded if you just think "weight is your relationship with gravity" and nothing more.
you can think my argument is stupid or disagree with me but no scientist is going to say that obesity causes death. Show me that article. They all say it's linked or it can lead to a cause of death. Your weight is the result of over eating and/or a sedentary lifestyle. Overeating and/or a sedentary lifestyle? leads to excess weight. leads to several causes of death. Obesity doesn't literally kill you.
Any scientist would disagree with you. Being too large for your organs and primary systems to sustain life fulfills all the criteria of a repeatable and provable fact.
Per NIH obesity and overweight together are the second leading cause of preventable death in the U.S.
Where did The National Institute of Health print that? All I can find in a website claiming they said that but no proof.0 -
Mr_Healthy_Habits wrote: »It is true that people are much less likely to buy a product if it says "Contains Gmo's"
What I fail to understand is why all these "pro market", "Gov't should stay out of business" people are so afraid of letting the market decide what they want to consume.
All you people who are against labeling know damn well that if you walk into a store to buy dinner for your kids and see two versions of the same product at the same price and one says "Contains Gmo's" you're going to choose the other.
And if you don't care, thats okay, but plenty others do. Food labeling should not be something that is voted on, it should just be mandatory.
9 -
MJ2victory wrote: »Big is beautiful...(when said about obese people)
No it's not... It's heart disease, liver disease and many other illnesses breeding inside you because you can't control your cravings.
This isn't a dig it's a fact.
Those that are on here that are obese I would assume are here to improve themselves and to them I say I salute you.
To those that choose to continue without change, I am disturbed by you and your lack of love for the only body you'll ever have.
a.) plenty of fat ppl don't get those issues and plenty of thin people do... you know that. Why oversimplify?
b.) you can be disturbed all you want but I agree with you that the habits and behaviors that got them/us fat probably have to do with a lack of self love. Ergo, step 1 is finding yourself beautiful and lovable and step 2 is deciding that that means you're worth the work it takes to food prep, the work it takes to say no to excess food, it's all hard work. And if you don't first believe you're worth it... how do you ever love yourself enough to do it??? Sure, some people get stuck on step 1 and that may be a problem for them and possible others... but that doesn't mean it's not an important step.
Plenty smokers never get lung cancer.8 -
amusedmonkey wrote: »Mr_Healthy_Habits wrote: »
- These companies also pay food engineers to come on forums like mfp to defend their products.
Just when I thought this conversation couldn't get any weirder. Why hasn't anybody told me we're supposed to be paid for saying it's okay to not get an anxiety attack every time you pass by a McDonald's?
Do you work in McDonald's Marketing Department? (Although, it's probably called Customer Outreach or something warm and fuzzy like that.)
I can't speak for companies that use biotech, but I can attest that other types of manufacturers absolutely go into forums to defend products.5 -
Mr_Healthy_Habits wrote: »Something else I don't understand...
What's it to you people whether or not the food industry is required to label Gmo's anyway?
How is it going to negatively effect you personally if a company is required to label their gmo products?
Guess what, if less people are buying their gmo products because of the label, that's a good thing for you gmo lovers because it will drive down the price right?
Labeling gmo products will not effect you negatively in any way, only positively... However, others do feel not labeling Gmo's could negatively effect them personally.
So who the hell are you, with no skin in the game, to tell everyone else they don't have a right to be informed about their products... And these are the same people who preach an ideology of libertarianism.
You keep saying feel this feel that. Where's the facts?3 -
MJ2victory wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »Big is beautiful...(when said about obese people)
No it's not... It's heart disease, liver disease and many other illnesses breeding inside you because you can't control your cravings.
This isn't a dig it's a fact.
Those that are on here that are obese I would assume are here to improve themselves and to them I say I salute you.
To those that choose to continue without change, I am disturbed by you and your lack of love for the only body you'll ever have.
a.) plenty of fat ppl don't get those issues and plenty of thin people do... you know that. Why oversimplify?
b.) you can be disturbed all you want but I agree with you that the habits and behaviors that got them/us fat probably have to do with a lack of self love. Ergo, step 1 is finding yourself beautiful and lovable and step 2 is deciding that that means you're worth the work it takes to food prep, the work it takes to say no to excess food, it's all hard work. And if you don't first believe you're worth it... how do you ever love yourself enough to do it??? Sure, some people get stuck on step 1 and that may be a problem for them and possible others... but that doesn't mean it's not an important step.
Plenty smokers never get lung cancer.
is that perhaps why you don't see people *kitten* on smokers the way they do on fat people?
You haven't been around many smokers then. Or haven't seen any cigarette packages in the past years.9 -
MJ2victory wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »Big is beautiful...(when said about obese people)
No it's not... It's heart disease, liver disease and many other illnesses breeding inside you because you can't control your cravings.
This isn't a dig it's a fact.
Those that are on here that are obese I would assume are here to improve themselves and to them I say I salute you.
To those that choose to continue without change, I am disturbed by you and your lack of love for the only body you'll ever have.
a.) plenty of fat ppl don't get those issues and plenty of thin people do... you know that. Why oversimplify?
b.) you can be disturbed all you want but I agree with you that the habits and behaviors that got them/us fat probably have to do with a lack of self love. Ergo, step 1 is finding yourself beautiful and lovable and step 2 is deciding that that means you're worth the work it takes to food prep, the work it takes to say no to excess food, it's all hard work. And if you don't first believe you're worth it... how do you ever love yourself enough to do it??? Sure, some people get stuck on step 1 and that may be a problem for them and possible others... but that doesn't mean it's not an important step.
Plenty smokers never get lung cancer.
is that perhaps why you don't see people *kitten* on smokers the way they do on fat people?
WTF? People constantly *kitten* on smokers. Smokers pay a ridiculous amount in extra taxes compared to non-smokers. Smokers pay extra for their health insurance. Smokers aren't allowed to smoke in most restaurants anymore.
When was the last time a fat person wasn't allowed to eat somewhere?17 -
xmichaelyx wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »Big is beautiful...(when said about obese people)
No it's not... It's heart disease, liver disease and many other illnesses breeding inside you because you can't control your cravings.
This isn't a dig it's a fact.
Those that are on here that are obese I would assume are here to improve themselves and to them I say I salute you.
To those that choose to continue without change, I am disturbed by you and your lack of love for the only body you'll ever have.
a.) plenty of fat ppl don't get those issues and plenty of thin people do... you know that. Why oversimplify?
b.) you can be disturbed all you want but I agree with you that the habits and behaviors that got them/us fat probably have to do with a lack of self love. Ergo, step 1 is finding yourself beautiful and lovable and step 2 is deciding that that means you're worth the work it takes to food prep, the work it takes to say no to excess food, it's all hard work. And if you don't first believe you're worth it... how do you ever love yourself enough to do it??? Sure, some people get stuck on step 1 and that may be a problem for them and possible others... but that doesn't mean it's not an important step.
Plenty smokers never get lung cancer.
is that perhaps why you don't see people *kitten* on smokers the way they do on fat people?
WTF? People constantly *kitten* on smokers. Smokers pay a ridiculous amount in extra taxes compared to non-smokers. Smokers pay extra for their health insurance. Smokers aren't allowed to smoke in most restaurants anymore.
When was the last time a fat person wasn't allowed to eat somewhere?
Many people also refuse to date smokers (not criticizing, it's a legitimate preference to have).12
This discussion has been closed.
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