What the hell are carbs?
Replies
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janejellyroll wrote: »tinkerbellang83 wrote: »Wow, some of these points scrutinising everything I say for no reason really...
I'm not saying to cut out bread and pasta - I eat both - I'm answering the first question asking what the nutritionist meant by carbs. It's obvious she didn't mean vegetables.
How is it obvious that's what her nutritionist meant? Surely her nutritionist should know what her client is regularly consuming and shouldn't just blanket state she is eating too many carbs without reviewing what it is that she is actually eating. OP has stated she mostly eats meat, fish, fruit, veg and nuts, no mention of over-indulging in bread and pasta.
I really didn't mean to offend anyone, I'm simply making the point that complex carbs are not the same as simple carbs; no low carb diets (that I know of) cut out vegetables, but almost all cut down on pasta and white bread.
100g of bread is generally considered worse for you than 100g of broccoli in general nutrition & calories.
However, you're right - if she's only eating those foods and the nutritionist wasn't referring to refined carbs, she needs to sack the nutritionist immediately.
Psst . . . bread and pasta are are complex carbohydrates.
Bread can come in two forms: white, refined-flour bread, with mostly simple carbohydrates, and whole-grain bread, with mostly complex carbohydrates15 -
janejellyroll wrote: »Wow, some of these points scrutinising everything I say for no reason really...
I'm not saying to cut out bread and pasta - I eat both - I'm answering the first question asking what the nutritionist meant by carbs. It's obvious she didn't mean vegetables.
Eating bread isn't the same as eating vegetables; cooking salmon doesn't make it artificial. Absolutely ridiculous points you're trying to make.
BREAD WOULD NOT EXIST UNLESS SOMEONE COMBINED THE INGREDIENTS, KNEADED IT, LET IT RISE, AND BAKED IT; yes, it's made from natural ingredients, that doesn't make it a raw food, which I'm guessing is what the nutritionist is referring to - you're not eating wheat raw, are you?!
I'm not saying to cut out bread and pasta, I'm saying that a low carb diet refers to this (again, like atkins and keto diets).
It's not rocket science.
Chili wouldn't exist unless someone chopped the ingredients, mixed them, and applied heat. Salmon, as a food, wouldn't exist unless someone went to the water, got a fish out, killed it, cut it into pieces, applied seasoning, and cooked it. So . . . what's the point?
What does any of this have to do with whether or not we should eat bread?
I have not once said we shouldn't eat bread, I have said that a LOW CARB DIET cuts out high calorie carbs such as pasta and bread. That's all!!!!!!4 -
tinkerbellang83 wrote: »Wow, some of these points scrutinising everything I say for no reason really...
I'm not saying to cut out bread and pasta - I eat both - I'm answering the first question asking what the nutritionist meant by carbs. It's obvious she didn't mean vegetables.
How is it obvious that's what her nutritionist meant? Surely her nutritionist should know what her client is regularly consuming and shouldn't just blanket state she is eating too many carbs without reviewing what it is that she is actually eating. OP has stated she mostly eats meat, fish, fruit, veg and nuts, no mention of over-indulging in bread and pasta.
I really didn't mean to offend anyone, I'm simply making the point that complex carbs are not the same as simple carbs; no low carb diets (that I know of) cut out vegetables, but almost all cut down on pasta and white bread.
100g of bread is generally considered worse for you than 100g of broccoli in general nutrition & calories.
However, you're right - if she's only eating those foods and the nutritionist wasn't referring to refined carbs, she needs to sack the nutritionist immediately.
People are busting your chops over the whole "natural fiber carbs" phrasing, which is not helpful for people trying to grasp the basics of nutrition (especially since what has the OP baffled is that her diet is already heavily veg and less-processed foods).
Rather than setting up a false black-and-white dichotomy between two foods (your example has evolved to raw broccoli vs. baked bread, whereas they should be seen as points on a multilateral continuum), one should consider them within the entire context of a diet, and measure them against the specific goals of a person's given diet.
The biggest problem with seed-based food like bread or beans is that it is SUCH a powerhouse of energy (ie, calories) it can really add up if not properly burned off. But that is not a bad thing, it is just different--seeds are what they are, and they play a very valuable role in many diets, even in bread format.9 -
So if I restrict myself to 50g of carbs a day and they all come from pasta & bread that's not a low carb diet?janejellyroll wrote: »Wow, some of these points scrutinising everything I say for no reason really...
I'm not saying to cut out bread and pasta - I eat both - I'm answering the first question asking what the nutritionist meant by carbs. It's obvious she didn't mean vegetables.
Eating bread isn't the same as eating vegetables; cooking salmon doesn't make it artificial. Absolutely ridiculous points you're trying to make.
BREAD WOULD NOT EXIST UNLESS SOMEONE COMBINED THE INGREDIENTS, KNEADED IT, LET IT RISE, AND BAKED IT; yes, it's made from natural ingredients, that doesn't make it a raw food, which I'm guessing is what the nutritionist is referring to - you're not eating wheat raw, are you?!
I'm not saying to cut out bread and pasta, I'm saying that a low carb diet refers to this (again, like atkins and keto diets).
It's not rocket science.
Chili wouldn't exist unless someone chopped the ingredients, mixed them, and applied heat. Salmon, as a food, wouldn't exist unless someone went to the water, got a fish out, killed it, cut it into pieces, applied seasoning, and cooked it. So . . . what's the point?
What does any of this have to do with whether or not we should eat bread?
I have not once said we shouldn't eat bread, I have said that a LOW CARB DIET cuts out high calorie carbs such as pasta and bread. That's all!!!!!!16 -
janejellyroll wrote: »tinkerbellang83 wrote: »Wow, some of these points scrutinising everything I say for no reason really...
I'm not saying to cut out bread and pasta - I eat both - I'm answering the first question asking what the nutritionist meant by carbs. It's obvious she didn't mean vegetables.
How is it obvious that's what her nutritionist meant? Surely her nutritionist should know what her client is regularly consuming and shouldn't just blanket state she is eating too many carbs without reviewing what it is that she is actually eating. OP has stated she mostly eats meat, fish, fruit, veg and nuts, no mention of over-indulging in bread and pasta.
I really didn't mean to offend anyone, I'm simply making the point that complex carbs are not the same as simple carbs; no low carb diets (that I know of) cut out vegetables, but almost all cut down on pasta and white bread.
100g of bread is generally considered worse for you than 100g of broccoli in general nutrition & calories.
However, you're right - if she's only eating those foods and the nutritionist wasn't referring to refined carbs, she needs to sack the nutritionist immediately.
Psst . . . bread and pasta are are complex carbohydrates.
Bread can come in two forms: white, refined-flour bread, with mostly simple carbohydrates, and whole-grain bread, with mostly complex carbohydrates
Which is why talking about "bread" and "pasta" generically isn't all that helpful. Besides, simple carbohydrates can be part of a healthful diet.9 -
janejellyroll wrote: »Wow, some of these points scrutinising everything I say for no reason really...
I'm not saying to cut out bread and pasta - I eat both - I'm answering the first question asking what the nutritionist meant by carbs. It's obvious she didn't mean vegetables.
Eating bread isn't the same as eating vegetables; cooking salmon doesn't make it artificial. Absolutely ridiculous points you're trying to make.
BREAD WOULD NOT EXIST UNLESS SOMEONE COMBINED THE INGREDIENTS, KNEADED IT, LET IT RISE, AND BAKED IT; yes, it's made from natural ingredients, that doesn't make it a raw food, which I'm guessing is what the nutritionist is referring to - you're not eating wheat raw, are you?!
I'm not saying to cut out bread and pasta, I'm saying that a low carb diet refers to this (again, like atkins and keto diets).
It's not rocket science.
Chili wouldn't exist unless someone chopped the ingredients, mixed them, and applied heat. Salmon, as a food, wouldn't exist unless someone went to the water, got a fish out, killed it, cut it into pieces, applied seasoning, and cooked it. So . . . what's the point?
What does any of this have to do with whether or not we should eat bread?
I have not once said we shouldn't eat bread, I have said that a LOW CARB DIET cuts out high calorie carbs such as pasta and bread. That's all!!!!!!
You are attempting to define what other people mean by "low carb" which is highly variable and lends your definition to inaccuracy (lots of people define low carb much differently than what you're doing here).
We see posts here on a regular basis saying that people are cutting out fruits and vegetables to go low carb. Others define low carb as vegetables only and no fruit. Still others define it as a specific number of grams of fiber regardless of the source.8 -
janejellyroll wrote: »Wow, some of these points scrutinising everything I say for no reason really...
I'm not saying to cut out bread and pasta - I eat both - I'm answering the first question asking what the nutritionist meant by carbs. It's obvious she didn't mean vegetables.
Eating bread isn't the same as eating vegetables; cooking salmon doesn't make it artificial. Absolutely ridiculous points you're trying to make.
BREAD WOULD NOT EXIST UNLESS SOMEONE COMBINED THE INGREDIENTS, KNEADED IT, LET IT RISE, AND BAKED IT; yes, it's made from natural ingredients, that doesn't make it a raw food, which I'm guessing is what the nutritionist is referring to - you're not eating wheat raw, are you?!
I'm not saying to cut out bread and pasta, I'm saying that a low carb diet refers to this (again, like atkins and keto diets).
It's not rocket science.
Chili wouldn't exist unless someone chopped the ingredients, mixed them, and applied heat. Salmon, as a food, wouldn't exist unless someone went to the water, got a fish out, killed it, cut it into pieces, applied seasoning, and cooked it. So . . . what's the point?
What does any of this have to do with whether or not we should eat bread?
I have not once said we shouldn't eat bread, I have said that a LOW CARB DIET cuts out high calorie carbs such as pasta and bread. That's all!!!!!!
Okay, so what was the point of talking about how it wasn't natural?5 -
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That's small potatoes...
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French_Peasant wrote: »tinkerbellang83 wrote: »Wow, some of these points scrutinising everything I say for no reason really...
I'm not saying to cut out bread and pasta - I eat both - I'm answering the first question asking what the nutritionist meant by carbs. It's obvious she didn't mean vegetables.
How is it obvious that's what her nutritionist meant? Surely her nutritionist should know what her client is regularly consuming and shouldn't just blanket state she is eating too many carbs without reviewing what it is that she is actually eating. OP has stated she mostly eats meat, fish, fruit, veg and nuts, no mention of over-indulging in bread and pasta.
I really didn't mean to offend anyone, I'm simply making the point that complex carbs are not the same as simple carbs; no low carb diets (that I know of) cut out vegetables, but almost all cut down on pasta and white bread.
100g of bread is generally considered worse for you than 100g of broccoli in general nutrition & calories.
However, you're right - if she's only eating those foods and the nutritionist wasn't referring to refined carbs, she needs to sack the nutritionist immediately.
People are busting your chops over the whole "natural fiber carbs" phrasing, which is not helpful for people trying to grasp the basics of nutrition (especially since what has the OP baffled is that her diet is already heavily veg and less-processed foods).
Rather than setting up a false black-and-white dichotomy between two foods (your example has evolved to raw broccoli vs. baked bread, whereas they should be seen as points on a multilateral continuum), one should consider them within the entire context of a diet, and measure them against the specific goals of a person's given diet.
The biggest problem with seed-based food like bread or beans is that it is SUCH a powerhouse of energy (ie, calories) it can really add up if not properly burned off. But that is not a bad thing, it is just different--seeds are what they are, and they play a very valuable role in many diets, even in bread format.
Yes, and I agree with you. My wording was perhaps a little off; I was trying to keep it very basic when explaining to someone with no knowledge of what a carb is. I thought it simpler and easier for her to read that low carb diets usually cut down on bread and pastas, rather than cucumber like she's mentioned.
Long and short of it, you're not going to get fat because you've eaten cucumber alongside your meat and nuts - if you did, that's a hell of a lot of cucumber.
Despite my several responses, I'm not actually trying to argue with anyone. I hadn't heard of low carb diets that don't focus on eating veg rather than higher calorie carb options - I stand corrected, and it's noted.4 -
piperdown44 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »French_Peasant wrote: »I would imagine that your nutritionist is referring to heavy/refined/processed carbs that don't have much nutrition, such as bread or pasta.
Carbs in fruits and vegetables are fine as they're natural - these are 'fiber' carbs and needed.
Just like sugar in a banana is natural when compared to sugar in sweets, natural carbs are full of nutrition (such as fibre) and are a much better choice when compared to processed carbs.
So carbs in bread....are not fiber carbs...and are not natural? Hmmmm.
No, bread isn't natural, it's man made and it's a refined carb (especially if it's white, whole grain is better for you and more nutritional). Bread is made from natural ingredients (wheat) so does have fiber in it, but it's a 'starchy' refined carb and nowhere near as nutritional as natural fiber carbs found in vegetables that grow naturally, such as broccoli.
How can something with "natural ingredients" be unnatural? I mean, if I made a pot of chili that would be (wo)manmade, but it doesn't mean that the nutrients in it somehow vanish. Many of the foods we eat undergo some form of prep or processing (either by us or prior to the point of purchase).
A diet can include bread and broccoli. It's not like we have to forgo all the benefits of broccoli forever in order to have a slice of bread.
Beans in that chili or Texas style? Just had to ask.....
Just sharing for funsies: My mom used to make chili with beans, but we didn't like it so she started using macaroni. Thank God nobody called the authorities, because I'm pretty sure that was a crime.10 -
French_Peasant wrote: »French_Peasant wrote: »I would imagine that your nutritionist is referring to heavy/refined/processed carbs that don't have much nutrition, such as bread or pasta.
Carbs in fruits and vegetables are fine as they're natural - these are 'fiber' carbs and needed.
Just like sugar in a banana is natural when compared to sugar in sweets, natural carbs are full of nutrition (such as fibre) and are a much better choice when compared to processed carbs.
So carbs in bread....are not fiber carbs...and are not natural? Hmmmm.
No, bread isn't natural, it's man made and it's a refined carb (especially if it's white, whole grain is better for you and more nutritional). Bread is made from natural ingredients (wheat) so does have fiber in it, but it's a 'starchy' refined carb and nowhere near as nutritional as natural fiber carbs found in vegetables that grow naturally, such as broccoli.
So....ummmm...is it the chopping that makes wheat not a "natural fiber carb"? And...uh...what happens if you chop the tender broccoli florettes from the thick, inedible, gnarly, but surely naturally fibrous stalks?
[French Peasant scratches her head as she looks at a stand of wheat growing next to some broccoli plants in her garden.]
A bit off topic, but you're missing out if you don't eat the stalks. They're the best part! You may have to trim the very outside off if you're not cooking them, but the steamed broccoli stalk is fabulous. I'm at the point where I get mad at the preponderance of stores only selling broccoli crowns. 6 -
You do not have a thorough understanding of this subject.I have not once said we shouldn't eat bread, I have said that a LOW CARB DIET cuts out high calorie carbs such as pasta and bread. That's all!!!!!!
The SOURCE of the carbs do not matter.
The AMOUNT of net carbs are what is important to low carb diets.
That is why everyone is giving you a hard time.
Me? I've only been researching this subject for about 25 or 30 years so go ahead and argue all you want.
11 -
janejellyroll wrote: »tinkerbellang83 wrote: »Wow, some of these points scrutinising everything I say for no reason really...
I'm not saying to cut out bread and pasta - I eat both - I'm answering the first question asking what the nutritionist meant by carbs. It's obvious she didn't mean vegetables.
How is it obvious that's what her nutritionist meant? Surely her nutritionist should know what her client is regularly consuming and shouldn't just blanket state she is eating too many carbs without reviewing what it is that she is actually eating. OP has stated she mostly eats meat, fish, fruit, veg and nuts, no mention of over-indulging in bread and pasta.
I really didn't mean to offend anyone, I'm simply making the point that complex carbs are not the same as simple carbs; no low carb diets (that I know of) cut out vegetables, but almost all cut down on pasta and white bread.
100g of bread is generally considered worse for you than 100g of broccoli in general nutrition & calories.
However, you're right - if she's only eating those foods and the nutritionist wasn't referring to refined carbs, she needs to sack the nutritionist immediately.
Psst . . . bread and pasta are are complex carbohydrates.
Yup...and fruit is a simple carbohydrate.14 -
Crime? No sir!PaulaWallaDingDong wrote: »Just sharing for funsies: My mom used to make chili with beans, but we didn't like it so she started using macaroni. Thank God nobody called the authorities, because I'm pretty sure that was a crime.
That would be Mana from Heaven, should you believe in such a place.
Adding Macaroni or other suitable noodles to chili is what makes this country great!
A good Chili-Mac (with beans, I'm a rebel!) is my idea of a comfort food.
Then again, maybe you are right..
I am not sure if the State Law in Texas making it the official food or whatever accounts for the glories of added noodles.6 -
PaulaWallaDingDong wrote: »piperdown44 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »French_Peasant wrote: »I would imagine that your nutritionist is referring to heavy/refined/processed carbs that don't have much nutrition, such as bread or pasta.
Carbs in fruits and vegetables are fine as they're natural - these are 'fiber' carbs and needed.
Just like sugar in a banana is natural when compared to sugar in sweets, natural carbs are full of nutrition (such as fibre) and are a much better choice when compared to processed carbs.
So carbs in bread....are not fiber carbs...and are not natural? Hmmmm.
No, bread isn't natural, it's man made and it's a refined carb (especially if it's white, whole grain is better for you and more nutritional). Bread is made from natural ingredients (wheat) so does have fiber in it, but it's a 'starchy' refined carb and nowhere near as nutritional as natural fiber carbs found in vegetables that grow naturally, such as broccoli.
How can something with "natural ingredients" be unnatural? I mean, if I made a pot of chili that would be (wo)manmade, but it doesn't mean that the nutrients in it somehow vanish. Many of the foods we eat undergo some form of prep or processing (either by us or prior to the point of purchase).
A diet can include bread and broccoli. It's not like we have to forgo all the benefits of broccoli forever in order to have a slice of bread.
Beans in that chili or Texas style? Just had to ask.....
Just sharing for funsies: My mom used to make chili with beans, but we didn't like it so she started using macaroni. Thank God nobody called the authorities, because I'm pretty sure that was a crime.
Your mom made goolosh.6 -
French_Peasant wrote: »French_Peasant wrote: »I would imagine that your nutritionist is referring to heavy/refined/processed carbs that don't have much nutrition, such as bread or pasta.
Carbs in fruits and vegetables are fine as they're natural - these are 'fiber' carbs and needed.
Just like sugar in a banana is natural when compared to sugar in sweets, natural carbs are full of nutrition (such as fibre) and are a much better choice when compared to processed carbs.
So carbs in bread....are not fiber carbs...and are not natural? Hmmmm.
No, bread isn't natural, it's man made and it's a refined carb (especially if it's white, whole grain is better for you and more nutritional). Bread is made from natural ingredients (wheat) so does have fiber in it, but it's a 'starchy' refined carb and nowhere near as nutritional as natural fiber carbs found in vegetables that grow naturally, such as broccoli.
So....ummmm...is it the chopping that makes wheat not a "natural fiber carb"? And...uh...what happens if you chop the tender broccoli florettes from the thick, inedible, gnarly, but surely naturally fibrous stalks?
[French Peasant scratches her head as she looks at a stand of wheat growing next to some broccoli plants in her garden.]
A bit off topic, but you're missing out if you don't eat the stalks. They're the best part! You may have to trim the very outside off if you're not cooking them, but the steamed broccoli stalk is fabulous. I'm at the point where I get mad at the preponderance of stores only selling broccoli crowns.
Ugh tell me about it... love the stalk. My kids eat the "tree leaves but not the trunks". But hey...my kids eating broccoli at all?...not many complaints from this mom.2 -
janejellyroll wrote: »tinkerbellang83 wrote: »Wow, some of these points scrutinising everything I say for no reason really...
I'm not saying to cut out bread and pasta - I eat both - I'm answering the first question asking what the nutritionist meant by carbs. It's obvious she didn't mean vegetables.
How is it obvious that's what her nutritionist meant? Surely her nutritionist should know what her client is regularly consuming and shouldn't just blanket state she is eating too many carbs without reviewing what it is that she is actually eating. OP has stated she mostly eats meat, fish, fruit, veg and nuts, no mention of over-indulging in bread and pasta.
I really didn't mean to offend anyone, I'm simply making the point that complex carbs are not the same as simple carbs; no low carb diets (that I know of) cut out vegetables, but almost all cut down on pasta and white bread.
100g of bread is generally considered worse for you than 100g of broccoli in general nutrition & calories.
However, you're right - if she's only eating those foods and the nutritionist wasn't referring to refined carbs, she needs to sack the nutritionist immediately.
Psst . . . bread and pasta are are complex carbohydrates.
Bread can come in two forms: white, refined-flour bread, with mostly simple carbohydrates, and whole-grain bread, with mostly complex carbohydrates
Starch is a complex carbohydrate. Made with white and refined flour or not, breads and pastas are still primarily complex carbohydrates unless there is a significant amount of simple sugars added.
For specific dessert breads you might have an argument. Otherwise, no.11 -
Just an assumption but I think your nutiritionist is recommending low GI carbs.
The GI is the Glycaemic Index and a score is given to each Carbohydrate and is relevant to the glucose (sugar) levels they create in your blood stream.
Carbohydrates are the bodies natural energy source.
A high GI food will transform into glycogen an energy source that is stored in the liver and also in muscle tissue. If this energy is not used (through eating more calories than you burn) it will be transformed and stored as fat. (This is bad for your liver)
A lower GI food will take longer to go through these transformations, will keep you fuller for longer and will likely be used up whilst in Glycogen form if you are not eating more calories than you burn. They basically fuel your body for longer with a reduced chance of them turning into fats.
Here's a list of GI foods in the Glycaemic index.
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5486a8aee4b01879306e9052/t/5489575fe4b0963c92fed404/1418286944356/
Fruit is likely your issue here as it is high in fructose and therefore as it transforms it can really push those glucose levels up and cause more fat storage. (A lot of fruit salad munchers complain they're not losing weight yet shovel in days worth of sugar in a fruit salad.)
I hope this is somewhat helpful
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Ok sorry everyone let me explain myself a bit better. I wrote this in a hurry!
Just to make you all aware the title was meant to be ironic. I apologise!
My original discussion with my nutritionist was that a low carb diet was generally avoiding things like white bread and potatoes. (This is a very very vague explanation as we went through many different things!)
But then when I got on here everything I logged was coming up as carbs. So when we looked at my results at the end of each day my diet said I lived on carbs!!
I haven't seen her since then because I'm waiting for an appointment. And before you all attack her she has been brilliant and helped me a lot. I just can't get enough appointments so have to work it out myself a bit in between.
Does this make more sense to anyone?
(Basically I'm avoiding what I've been told to avoid, but my stats are saying I'm living on carbs.)4
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