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Are you a hard gainer, please read!

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  • stanmann571stanmann571 Posts: 5,736Member Member Posts: 5,736Member Member
    donkey9512 wrote: »
    donkey9512 wrote: »
    Looks like a recipe for getting fat! I would be afraid that it would be impossible to cut back down later. Lots of unclean junky foods listed. I am not sure this is the best advise.

    You understand this is the weight gain discussion right?? Getting bigger is the goal.

    Of course I understand that. My point is that it is too easy to overdo junk food and get fat. Replace the word junk food with, say, certain highly processed foods with low nutrient content and empty calories. It's easier to say junk food.

    Instead of eating McDonalds Bigmac I would prefer to have an avodado which is calorie dense and not processed. You can easily get 3500 calories in one meal at McDonalds. I was once everyday eating fast food even though I was a hard gainer. The term 'hard gainer' refers to hard gaining lean mass.

    NO! Hard gainer refers to anyone who has trouble gaining weight. 20 years ago, I was a 'hard gainer'
  • donkey9512donkey9512 Posts: 60Member Member Posts: 60Member Member
    donkey9512 wrote: »
    donkey9512 wrote: »
    Looks like a recipe for getting fat! I would be afraid that it would be impossible to cut back down later. Lots of unclean junky foods listed. I am not sure this is the best advise.

    You understand this is the weight gain discussion right?? Getting bigger is the goal.

    Of course I understand that. My point is that it is too easy to overdo junk food and get fat. Replace the word junk food with, say, certain highly processed foods with low nutrient content and empty calories. It's easier to say junk food.

    Instead of eating McDonalds Bigmac I would prefer to have an avodado which is calorie dense and not processed. You can easily get 3500 calories in one meal at McDonalds. I was once everyday eating fast food even though I was a hard gainer. The term 'hard gainer' refers to hard gaining lean mass.

    NO! Hard gainer refers to anyone who has trouble gaining weight. 20 years ago, I was a 'hard gainer'

    Not according to Wikipedia.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardgainer

    I don't mean to nit-pick but in general, when people say they are a hardgainer, they mean they want to gain muscle. The danger in taking a looser definition is that people who once thought they were hard gainers, will quickly find how easy it is to gain fat if they eat the wrong foods or too much of the wrong foods. That was my whole point above. Everything in moderation and occasional indulgences are a good thing for someone struggling to gain weight. Just make sure you gain the right type of weight LOL!
  • stanmann571stanmann571 Posts: 5,736Member Member Posts: 5,736Member Member
    donkey9512 wrote: »
    donkey9512 wrote: »
    donkey9512 wrote: »
    Looks like a recipe for getting fat! I would be afraid that it would be impossible to cut back down later. Lots of unclean junky foods listed. I am not sure this is the best advise.

    You understand this is the weight gain discussion right?? Getting bigger is the goal.

    Of course I understand that. My point is that it is too easy to overdo junk food and get fat. Replace the word junk food with, say, certain highly processed foods with low nutrient content and empty calories. It's easier to say junk food.

    Instead of eating McDonalds Bigmac I would prefer to have an avodado which is calorie dense and not processed. You can easily get 3500 calories in one meal at McDonalds. I was once everyday eating fast food even though I was a hard gainer. The term 'hard gainer' refers to hard gaining lean mass.

    NO! Hard gainer refers to anyone who has trouble gaining weight. 20 years ago, I was a 'hard gainer'

    Not according to Wikipedia.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardgainer

    I don't mean to nit-pick but in general, when people say they are a hardgainer, they mean they want to gain muscle. The danger in taking a looser definition is that people who once thought they were hard gainers, will quickly find how easy it is to gain fat if they eat the wrong foods or too much of the wrong foods. That was my whole point above. Everything in moderation and occasional indulgences are a good thing for someone struggling to gain weight. Just make sure you gain the right type of weight LOL!

    Why don't you quote the guy who coined the term? His website is still around(20 years from the first time I went to it)
  • Sofia_GarciaSofia_Garcia Posts: 415Member Member Posts: 415Member Member
    Thanks for the reply now it's a bit more clear and yes I know I'm a picky eater! It's due my background, I lived in a island for 30 years and we have a very natural eating kinda way! From the land to the table even fast food is home made ahahhah
    I will try to incorporate some of the second advice seams more adequate for me!

    Thanks again :)

    Cheers
    edited August 2017
  • jseams1234jseams1234 Posts: 1,031Member Member Posts: 1,031Member Member
    Most "hard gainers" have a problem putting on mass at all... be it either fat or muscle. The problem with the vast majority of them is simply not getting enough calories. I don't think anybody ever advocates for nothing but "bad" food. You still need to meet your micro and macro nutritional needs to stay healthy... but you CAN meet those needs and still eat at McDonald's every single day. Go check out BB.com, reddit /bodybuilding /gainit /naturalbodybuilding and see that there is one thing in common when most people talk about "hard gains" - super skinny guys/gals who can't gain at all - It's not just muscle for most of them, it's both.

    With guys and gals who can put on pounds no problem but have issues with gaining muscle mass or strength, it's almost ALWAYS because they aren't lifting with progressive overload or a proper program and has nothing do with what foods they are eating.

    btw - I'm a "hard gainer" and it was an understanding of concepts like CICO and forums and threads like this that finally helped.
    edited August 2017
  • donkey9512donkey9512 Posts: 60Member Member Posts: 60Member Member
    jseams1234 wrote: »
    Most "hard gainers" have a problem putting on mass at all... be it either fat or muscle. The problem with the vast majority of them is simply not getting enough calories. I don't think anybody ever advocates for nothing but "bad" food. You still need to meet your micro and macro nutritional needs to stay healthy... but you CAN meet those needs and still eat at McDonald's every single day. Go check out BB.com, reddit /bodybuilding /gainit /naturalbodybuilding and see that their is one thing in common when most people talk about "hard gains" - super skinny guys/gals who can't gain at all - It's not just muscle for most of them, it's both.

    With guys and gals who can put on pounds no problem but have issues with gaining muscle mass or strength, it's almost ALWAYS because they aren't lifting with progressive overload or a proper program and has nothing do with what foods they are eating.

    btw - I'm a "hard gainer" and it was an understanding of concepts like CICO and forums and threads like this that finally helped.

    I agree with everything you said except I take issue with the statement '...but you CAN meet those needs and still eat at McDonald's every single day.'.

    The average meal at Mcdonalds with a Bigmac, large fries and soft drink is probably about in the neighborhood of 1500 to 1750 calories. So if someone requires, say 2500 calories to maintain their weight then they probably should aim to consume 3000 calories per day. Which means would be consuming over half their target calories in empty calories every day! Those super skinny hardgainers that no matter what cannot gain weight are simply not eating enough and/or are very active. Maybe a minority of hardgainers can get away with McDonalds every day but it will catch up with you as you age. There are better strategies to gain weight that still allow for indulgences.
  • AnvilHeadAnvilHead Posts: 18,543Member Member Posts: 18,543Member Member
    donkey9512 wrote: »
    jseams1234 wrote: »
    Most "hard gainers" have a problem putting on mass at all... be it either fat or muscle. The problem with the vast majority of them is simply not getting enough calories. I don't think anybody ever advocates for nothing but "bad" food. You still need to meet your micro and macro nutritional needs to stay healthy... but you CAN meet those needs and still eat at McDonald's every single day. Go check out BB.com, reddit /bodybuilding /gainit /naturalbodybuilding and see that their is one thing in common when most people talk about "hard gains" - super skinny guys/gals who can't gain at all - It's not just muscle for most of them, it's both.

    With guys and gals who can put on pounds no problem but have issues with gaining muscle mass or strength, it's almost ALWAYS because they aren't lifting with progressive overload or a proper program and has nothing do with what foods they are eating.

    btw - I'm a "hard gainer" and it was an understanding of concepts like CICO and forums and threads like this that finally helped.

    I agree with everything you said except I take issue with the statement '...but you CAN meet those needs and still eat at McDonald's every single day.'.

    The average meal at Mcdonalds with a Bigmac, large fries and soft drink is probably about in the neighborhood of 1500 to 1750 calories. So if someone requires, say 2500 calories to maintain their weight then they probably should aim to consume 3000 calories per day. Which means would be consuming over half their target calories in empty calories every day! Those super skinny hardgainers that no matter what cannot gain weight are simply not eating enough and/or are very active. Maybe a minority of hardgainers can get away with McDonalds every day but it will catch up with you as you age. There are better strategies to gain weight that still allow for indulgences.

    I find it both comical and insightful that virtually every proponent of "clean eating" has to take their discussion to the extreme of eating nothing but fast food (or sweets/sugar, or whatever they happen to be demonizing) every single day in an attempt to make their point.

    As if one couldn't apply a little common sense, take context and dosage into consideration and moderate their intake of such foods and still have a healthy, balanced, well-rounded diet.
    edited August 2017
  • Rammer123Rammer123 Posts: 675Member Member Posts: 675Member Member
    AnvilHead wrote: »
    donkey9512 wrote: »
    jseams1234 wrote: »
    Most "hard gainers" have a problem putting on mass at all... be it either fat or muscle. The problem with the vast majority of them is simply not getting enough calories. I don't think anybody ever advocates for nothing but "bad" food. You still need to meet your micro and macro nutritional needs to stay healthy... but you CAN meet those needs and still eat at McDonald's every single day. Go check out BB.com, reddit /bodybuilding /gainit /naturalbodybuilding and see that their is one thing in common when most people talk about "hard gains" - super skinny guys/gals who can't gain at all - It's not just muscle for most of them, it's both.

    With guys and gals who can put on pounds no problem but have issues with gaining muscle mass or strength, it's almost ALWAYS because they aren't lifting with progressive overload or a proper program and has nothing do with what foods they are eating.

    btw - I'm a "hard gainer" and it was an understanding of concepts like CICO and forums and threads like this that finally helped.

    I agree with everything you said except I take issue with the statement '...but you CAN meet those needs and still eat at McDonald's every single day.'.

    The average meal at Mcdonalds with a Bigmac, large fries and soft drink is probably about in the neighborhood of 1500 to 1750 calories. So if someone requires, say 2500 calories to maintain their weight then they probably should aim to consume 3000 calories per day. Which means would be consuming over half their target calories in empty calories every day! Those super skinny hardgainers that no matter what cannot gain weight are simply not eating enough and/or are very active. Maybe a minority of hardgainers can get away with McDonalds every day but it will catch up with you as you age. There are better strategies to gain weight that still allow for indulgences.

    I find it both comical and insightful that virtually every proponent of "clean eating" has to take their discussion to the extreme of eating nothing but fast food every single day in an attempt to make their point.

    As if one couldn't apply a little common sense, take context and dosage into consideration and moderate their intake of such foods and still have a healthy, balanced, well-rounded diet.

    He was responding to someone else who brought up eating mcdonalds everyday
  • AnvilHeadAnvilHead Posts: 18,543Member Member Posts: 18,543Member Member
    AnvilHead wrote: »
    donkey9512 wrote: »
    jseams1234 wrote: »
    Most "hard gainers" have a problem putting on mass at all... be it either fat or muscle. The problem with the vast majority of them is simply not getting enough calories. I don't think anybody ever advocates for nothing but "bad" food. You still need to meet your micro and macro nutritional needs to stay healthy... but you CAN meet those needs and still eat at McDonald's every single day. Go check out BB.com, reddit /bodybuilding /gainit /naturalbodybuilding and see that their is one thing in common when most people talk about "hard gains" - super skinny guys/gals who can't gain at all - It's not just muscle for most of them, it's both.

    With guys and gals who can put on pounds no problem but have issues with gaining muscle mass or strength, it's almost ALWAYS because they aren't lifting with progressive overload or a proper program and has nothing do with what foods they are eating.

    btw - I'm a "hard gainer" and it was an understanding of concepts like CICO and forums and threads like this that finally helped.

    I agree with everything you said except I take issue with the statement '...but you CAN meet those needs and still eat at McDonald's every single day.'.

    The average meal at Mcdonalds with a Bigmac, large fries and soft drink is probably about in the neighborhood of 1500 to 1750 calories. So if someone requires, say 2500 calories to maintain their weight then they probably should aim to consume 3000 calories per day. Which means would be consuming over half their target calories in empty calories every day! Those super skinny hardgainers that no matter what cannot gain weight are simply not eating enough and/or are very active. Maybe a minority of hardgainers can get away with McDonalds every day but it will catch up with you as you age. There are better strategies to gain weight that still allow for indulgences.

    I find it both comical and insightful that virtually every proponent of "clean eating" has to take their discussion to the extreme of eating nothing but fast food every single day in an attempt to make their point.

    As if one couldn't apply a little common sense, take context and dosage into consideration and moderate their intake of such foods and still have a healthy, balanced, well-rounded diet.

    He was responding to someone else who brought up eating mcdonalds everyday

    And there are no other items on the menu at McDonalds other than a Big Mac, fries and a soda?
  • Rammer123Rammer123 Posts: 675Member Member Posts: 675Member Member
    AnvilHead wrote: »
    AnvilHead wrote: »
    donkey9512 wrote: »
    jseams1234 wrote: »
    Most "hard gainers" have a problem putting on mass at all... be it either fat or muscle. The problem with the vast majority of them is simply not getting enough calories. I don't think anybody ever advocates for nothing but "bad" food. You still need to meet your micro and macro nutritional needs to stay healthy... but you CAN meet those needs and still eat at McDonald's every single day. Go check out BB.com, reddit /bodybuilding /gainit /naturalbodybuilding and see that their is one thing in common when most people talk about "hard gains" - super skinny guys/gals who can't gain at all - It's not just muscle for most of them, it's both.

    With guys and gals who can put on pounds no problem but have issues with gaining muscle mass or strength, it's almost ALWAYS because they aren't lifting with progressive overload or a proper program and has nothing do with what foods they are eating.

    btw - I'm a "hard gainer" and it was an understanding of concepts like CICO and forums and threads like this that finally helped.

    I agree with everything you said except I take issue with the statement '...but you CAN meet those needs and still eat at McDonald's every single day.'.

    The average meal at Mcdonalds with a Bigmac, large fries and soft drink is probably about in the neighborhood of 1500 to 1750 calories. So if someone requires, say 2500 calories to maintain their weight then they probably should aim to consume 3000 calories per day. Which means would be consuming over half their target calories in empty calories every day! Those super skinny hardgainers that no matter what cannot gain weight are simply not eating enough and/or are very active. Maybe a minority of hardgainers can get away with McDonalds every day but it will catch up with you as you age. There are better strategies to gain weight that still allow for indulgences.

    I find it both comical and insightful that virtually every proponent of "clean eating" has to take their discussion to the extreme of eating nothing but fast food every single day in an attempt to make their point.

    As if one couldn't apply a little common sense, take context and dosage into consideration and moderate their intake of such foods and still have a healthy, balanced, well-rounded diet.

    He was responding to someone else who brought up eating mcdonalds everyday

    And there are no other items on the menu at McDonalds other than a Big Mac, fries and a soda?

    I am not in this, and not arguing this, but if someone is bringing up eating at mcdonalds everyday, they are implying eating low nutrient dense food on a daily basis, not a grilled chicken salad from mcdonalds
  • donkey9512donkey9512 Posts: 60Member Member Posts: 60Member Member
    AnvilHead wrote: »
    donkey9512 wrote: »
    jseams1234 wrote: »
    Most "hard gainers" have a problem putting on mass at all... be it either fat or muscle. The problem with the vast majority of them is simply not getting enough calories. I don't think anybody ever advocates for nothing but "bad" food. You still need to meet your micro and macro nutritional needs to stay healthy... but you CAN meet those needs and still eat at McDonald's every single day. Go check out BB.com, reddit /bodybuilding /gainit /naturalbodybuilding and see that their is one thing in common when most people talk about "hard gains" - super skinny guys/gals who can't gain at all - It's not just muscle for most of them, it's both.

    With guys and gals who can put on pounds no problem but have issues with gaining muscle mass or strength, it's almost ALWAYS because they aren't lifting with progressive overload or a proper program and has nothing do with what foods they are eating.

    btw - I'm a "hard gainer" and it was an understanding of concepts like CICO and forums and threads like this that finally helped.

    I agree with everything you said except I take issue with the statement '...but you CAN meet those needs and still eat at McDonald's every single day.'.

    The average meal at Mcdonalds with a Bigmac, large fries and soft drink is probably about in the neighborhood of 1500 to 1750 calories. So if someone requires, say 2500 calories to maintain their weight then they probably should aim to consume 3000 calories per day. Which means would be consuming over half their target calories in empty calories every day! Those super skinny hardgainers that no matter what cannot gain weight are simply not eating enough and/or are very active. Maybe a minority of hardgainers can get away with McDonalds every day but it will catch up with you as you age. There are better strategies to gain weight that still allow for indulgences.

    I find it both comical and insightful that virtually every proponent of "clean eating" has to take their discussion to the extreme of eating nothing but fast food every single day in an attempt to make their point.

    As if one couldn't apply a little common sense, take context and dosage into consideration and moderate their intake of such foods and still have a healthy, balanced, well-rounded diet.

    He was responding to someone else who brought up eating mcdonalds everyday

    Exactly. And the danger that the average person reads into his comment and does not apply common sense. In other words, to use an outlier extreme case of a hardgainer who CAN get away with eating crap everyday and yet still struggle to gain much weight as a justification for the argument that 2000 calories in junk food EVERY DAY is okay ! ( Occasionally, someone wants cake or McDonalds and that's cool too)

    There are enough people struggling with obesity that it could be a misleading example.
    edited August 2017
  • AnvilHeadAnvilHead Posts: 18,543Member Member Posts: 18,543Member Member
    donkey9512 wrote: »
    AnvilHead wrote: »
    donkey9512 wrote: »
    jseams1234 wrote: »
    Most "hard gainers" have a problem putting on mass at all... be it either fat or muscle. The problem with the vast majority of them is simply not getting enough calories. I don't think anybody ever advocates for nothing but "bad" food. You still need to meet your micro and macro nutritional needs to stay healthy... but you CAN meet those needs and still eat at McDonald's every single day. Go check out BB.com, reddit /bodybuilding /gainit /naturalbodybuilding and see that their is one thing in common when most people talk about "hard gains" - super skinny guys/gals who can't gain at all - It's not just muscle for most of them, it's both.

    With guys and gals who can put on pounds no problem but have issues with gaining muscle mass or strength, it's almost ALWAYS because they aren't lifting with progressive overload or a proper program and has nothing do with what foods they are eating.

    btw - I'm a "hard gainer" and it was an understanding of concepts like CICO and forums and threads like this that finally helped.

    I agree with everything you said except I take issue with the statement '...but you CAN meet those needs and still eat at McDonald's every single day.'.

    The average meal at Mcdonalds with a Bigmac, large fries and soft drink is probably about in the neighborhood of 1500 to 1750 calories. So if someone requires, say 2500 calories to maintain their weight then they probably should aim to consume 3000 calories per day. Which means would be consuming over half their target calories in empty calories every day! Those super skinny hardgainers that no matter what cannot gain weight are simply not eating enough and/or are very active. Maybe a minority of hardgainers can get away with McDonalds every day but it will catch up with you as you age. There are better strategies to gain weight that still allow for indulgences.

    I find it both comical and insightful that virtually every proponent of "clean eating" has to take their discussion to the extreme of eating nothing but fast food every single day in an attempt to make their point.

    As if one couldn't apply a little common sense, take context and dosage into consideration and moderate their intake of such foods and still have a healthy, balanced, well-rounded diet.

    He was responding to someone else who brought up eating mcdonalds everyday

    Exactly. And the danger that the average person assumes that outlier extreme case where there are some extreme hardgainers who CAN get away with eating crap everyday and yet still struggle to gain much in the way of fat is the norm!

    To quote Eric Helms, "Once our nutritional needs are met, we don't get extra credit for eating more nutritious food."

    So if one is not being an idiot about nutrition and they're making some reasonable effort to hit acceptable macros for the day, but are still short on calories after that, calorie-dense foods can be helpful in reaching their calorie goals. I don't buy the contention that if somebody is eating a reasonable diet but is 600 calories short of their bulking goal every day, that eating a Big Mac is magically going to make them blow up into a big, fat heart attack waiting to happen.
  • Rammer123Rammer123 Posts: 675Member Member Posts: 675Member Member
    jseams1234 wrote: »
    Big Mac: 550 calories, 46g carbs, 29g fat, 25g of protein. Large Fries: 500 calories, 63g carbs, 25g fat, 6g protein. A small soda at McD's is about 120 calories... This is 1170 calories and leaves 1830 calories for the other two meals... just look at this thread and at the kind of people posting here. To them, just getting over maintenance is sometimes a victory. I'd hardly call that meal "empty" as it can certainly provide you with all three needed macros.

    Oh, and *I* would lose weight at 3000. I maintain at 4K... and I'm not some strange outlier in this category. ;)
    donkey9512 wrote: »
    AnvilHead wrote: »
    donkey9512 wrote: »
    jseams1234 wrote: »
    Most "hard gainers" have a problem putting on mass at all... be it either fat or muscle. The problem with the vast majority of them is simply not getting enough calories. I don't think anybody ever advocates for nothing but "bad" food. You still need to meet your micro and macro nutritional needs to stay healthy... but you CAN meet those needs and still eat at McDonald's every single day. Go check out BB.com, reddit /bodybuilding /gainit /naturalbodybuilding and see that their is one thing in common when most people talk about "hard gains" - super skinny guys/gals who can't gain at all - It's not just muscle for most of them, it's both.

    With guys and gals who can put on pounds no problem but have issues with gaining muscle mass or strength, it's almost ALWAYS because they aren't lifting with progressive overload or a proper program and has nothing do with what foods they are eating.

    btw - I'm a "hard gainer" and it was an understanding of concepts like CICO and forums and threads like this that finally helped.

    I agree with everything you said except I take issue with the statement '...but you CAN meet those needs and still eat at McDonald's every single day.'.

    The average meal at Mcdonalds with a Bigmac, large fries and soft drink is probably about in the neighborhood of 1500 to 1750 calories. So if someone requires, say 2500 calories to maintain their weight then they probably should aim to consume 3000 calories per day. Which means would be consuming over half their target calories in empty calories every day! Those super skinny hardgainers that no matter what cannot gain weight are simply not eating enough and/or are very active. Maybe a minority of hardgainers can get away with McDonalds every day but it will catch up with you as you age. There are better strategies to gain weight that still allow for indulgences.

    I find it both comical and insightful that virtually every proponent of "clean eating" has to take their discussion to the extreme of eating nothing but fast food every single day in an attempt to make their point.

    As if one couldn't apply a little common sense, take context and dosage into consideration and moderate their intake of such foods and still have a healthy, balanced, well-rounded diet.

    He was responding to someone else who brought up eating mcdonalds everyday

    Exactly. And the danger that the average person reads into his comment and not apply common sense. In other words, that an outlier extreme case of some extreme hardgainers who CAN get away with eating crap everyday and yet still struggle to gain much in the way of fat is the norm! There are enough people struggling with obesity that it is misleading to suggest eating McDonalds everyday is a valid strategy.

    Dude, did you check out which forum you were in?

    Empty calories is used to describe foods that are low in nutrient density. Lacking in the micro nutrients, not the macro nutrients.
  • sardelsasardelsa Posts: 8,322Member Member Posts: 8,322Member Member
    donkey9512 wrote: »
    donkey9512 wrote: »
    donkey9512 wrote: »
    donkey9512 wrote: »
    Looks like a recipe for getting fat! I would be afraid that it would be impossible to cut back down later. Lots of unclean junky foods listed. I am not sure this is the best advise.

    You understand this is the weight gain discussion right?? Getting bigger is the goal.

    Of course I understand that. My point is that it is too easy to overdo junk food and get fat. Replace the word junk food with, say, certain highly processed foods with low nutrient content and empty calories. It's easier to say junk food.

    Instead of eating McDonalds Bigmac I would prefer to have an avodado which is calorie dense and not processed. You can easily get 3500 calories in one meal at McDonalds. I was once everyday eating fast food even though I was a hard gainer. The term 'hard gainer' refers to hard gaining lean mass.

    NO! Hard gainer refers to anyone who has trouble gaining weight. 20 years ago, I was a 'hard gainer'

    Not according to Wikipedia.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardgainer

    I don't mean to nit-pick but in general, when people say they are a hardgainer, they mean they want to gain muscle. The danger in taking a looser definition is that people who once thought they were hard gainers, will quickly find how easy it is to gain fat if they eat the wrong foods or too much of the wrong foods. That was my whole point above. Everything in moderation and occasional indulgences are a good thing for someone struggling to gain weight. Just make sure you gain the right type of weight LOL!

    Why don't you quote the guy who coined the term? His website is still around(20 years from the first time I went to it)

    I don't know who first coined the term and the original meaning is irrelevant anyway in regards to this topic. Words change meaning all the time and are a reflection of the culture which gives rise to their use. In today's world and with the sport of bodybuilding, hard gain generally refers to lean muscle.

    I hope I was not off topic. I just wanted to add that most people are looking to gain quality weight. This should be obvious. Anyone can easily gain fat if they eat too much. Therefore I think we need to be precise about the fact that the reason for a caloric surplus is to maximize lean gain and minimize fat.

    The best way to do this is to keep the caloric surplus (and as a result rate of gain) reasonable, have proper training stimuli and adequate macros. When people are gaining too much fat, there is usually something gone wrong with one of those factors.
  • donkey9512donkey9512 Posts: 60Member Member Posts: 60Member Member
    sardelsa wrote: »
    donkey9512 wrote: »
    donkey9512 wrote: »
    donkey9512 wrote: »
    donkey9512 wrote: »
    Looks like a recipe for getting fat! I would be afraid that it would be impossible to cut back down later. Lots of unclean junky foods listed. I am not sure this is the best advise.

    You understand this is the weight gain discussion right?? Getting bigger is the goal.

    Of course I understand that. My point is that it is too easy to overdo junk food and get fat. Replace the word junk food with, say, certain highly processed foods with low nutrient content and empty calories. It's easier to say junk food.

    Instead of eating McDonalds Bigmac I would prefer to have an avodado which is calorie dense and not processed. You can easily get 3500 calories in one meal at McDonalds. I was once everyday eating fast food even though I was a hard gainer. The term 'hard gainer' refers to hard gaining lean mass.

    NO! Hard gainer refers to anyone who has trouble gaining weight. 20 years ago, I was a 'hard gainer'

    Not according to Wikipedia.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardgainer

    I don't mean to nit-pick but in general, when people say they are a hardgainer, they mean they want to gain muscle. The danger in taking a looser definition is that people who once thought they were hard gainers, will quickly find how easy it is to gain fat if they eat the wrong foods or too much of the wrong foods. That was my whole point above. Everything in moderation and occasional indulgences are a good thing for someone struggling to gain weight. Just make sure you gain the right type of weight LOL!

    Why don't you quote the guy who coined the term? His website is still around(20 years from the first time I went to it)

    I don't know who first coined the term and the original meaning is irrelevant anyway in regards to this topic. Words change meaning all the time and are a reflection of the culture which gives rise to their use. In today's world and with the sport of bodybuilding, hard gain generally refers to lean muscle.

    I hope I was not off topic. I just wanted to add that most people are looking to gain quality weight. This should be obvious. Anyone can easily gain fat if they eat too much. Therefore I think we need to be precise about the fact that the reason for a caloric surplus is to maximize lean gain and minimize fat.

    The best way to do this is to keep the caloric surplus (and as a result rate of gain) reasonable, have proper training stimuli and adequate macros. When people are gaining too much fat, there is usually something gone wrong with one of those factors.

    ..like having an extra 1500-1750 calories per day from MCDonalds. I lived that once and gained 20 lbs of fat. I am a hardgainer for muscle but a fast gainer for fat.
  • psuLemonpsuLemon Posts: 35,101Member, MFP Moderator, Greeter, Premium MFP Moderator Posts: 35,101Member, MFP Moderator, Greeter, Premium MFP Moderator
    donkey9512 wrote: »
    AnvilHead wrote: »
    donkey9512 wrote: »
    jseams1234 wrote: »
    Most "hard gainers" have a problem putting on mass at all... be it either fat or muscle. The problem with the vast majority of them is simply not getting enough calories. I don't think anybody ever advocates for nothing but "bad" food. You still need to meet your micro and macro nutritional needs to stay healthy... but you CAN meet those needs and still eat at McDonald's every single day. Go check out BB.com, reddit /bodybuilding /gainit /naturalbodybuilding and see that their is one thing in common when most people talk about "hard gains" - super skinny guys/gals who can't gain at all - It's not just muscle for most of them, it's both.

    With guys and gals who can put on pounds no problem but have issues with gaining muscle mass or strength, it's almost ALWAYS because they aren't lifting with progressive overload or a proper program and has nothing do with what foods they are eating.

    btw - I'm a "hard gainer" and it was an understanding of concepts like CICO and forums and threads like this that finally helped.

    I agree with everything you said except I take issue with the statement '...but you CAN meet those needs and still eat at McDonald's every single day.'.

    The average meal at Mcdonalds with a Bigmac, large fries and soft drink is probably about in the neighborhood of 1500 to 1750 calories. So if someone requires, say 2500 calories to maintain their weight then they probably should aim to consume 3000 calories per day. Which means would be consuming over half their target calories in empty calories every day! Those super skinny hardgainers that no matter what cannot gain weight are simply not eating enough and/or are very active. Maybe a minority of hardgainers can get away with McDonalds every day but it will catch up with you as you age. There are better strategies to gain weight that still allow for indulgences.

    I find it both comical and insightful that virtually every proponent of "clean eating" has to take their discussion to the extreme of eating nothing but fast food every single day in an attempt to make their point.

    As if one couldn't apply a little common sense, take context and dosage into consideration and moderate their intake of such foods and still have a healthy, balanced, well-rounded diet.

    He was responding to someone else who brought up eating mcdonalds everyday

    Exactly. And the danger that the average person reads into his comment and does not apply common sense. In other words, to use an outlier extreme case of a hardgainer who CAN get away with eating crap everyday and yet still struggle to gain much weight as a justification for the argument that 2000 calories in junk food EVERY DAY is okay ! ( Occasionally, someone wants cake or McDonalds and that's cool too)

    There are enough people struggling with obesity that it could be a misleading example.

    I'd recommend you take a step back and read the whole thread, as this exact argument has been made. Can someone take a restaurant.. and meat nutritional goals.. more than likely. Can you do it with just a big mac, fries and a soda.. probably not, but that is being obtuse since no one eats like that and no one is advocating it.

    But right now, that issue isn't the intent of the thread, it's one or two peoples extreme interpretation of how the information potentially could be used. And it's no different than the who aren't that eating this food or that food (i.e., doughnuts vs broccoli) is better for you while you lose weight; as if you can't have been and still meet nutritional needs.
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