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What are your unpopular opinions about health / fitness?
Replies
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Don't hate me but the whole "you can be obese and healthy" mindset is absurd to me. Define healthy. You mean to tell me your joints don't ever hurt? You aren't at risk for more diseases than if you were of a normal weight? Be honest with yourself! Let's stop sugar coating (no pun intended) this by calling it "body positivity."
Totally agree with this. I mean, there's a difference between being "chubby" or "curvy" or whatever euphemism is in style, and being OBESE. Obesity is NOT a healthy way to be. And I say this as a person who IS obese. I am also on high blood pressure meds, high cholesterol meds, and I just started Metformin. I think that once some of the "body positivity" crusaders age, and their bodies start punishing them for not taking better care in their youth, their attitudes will change. (Mine sure as hell did once I hit 40.)3 -
Don't hate me but the whole "you can be obese and healthy" mindset is absurd to me. Define healthy. You mean to tell me your joints don't ever hurt? You aren't at risk for more diseases than if you were of a normal weight? Be honest with yourself! Let's stop sugar coating (no pun intended) this by calling it "body positivity."
Totally agree with this. I mean, there's a difference between being "chubby" or "curvy" or whatever euphemism is in style, and being OBESE. Obesity is NOT a healthy way to be. And I say this as a person who IS obese. I am also on high blood pressure meds, high cholesterol meds, and I just started Metformin. I think that once some of the "body positivity" crusaders age, and their bodies start punishing them for not taking better care in their youth, their attitudes will change. (Mine sure as hell did once I hit 40.)
Reentering my profile photo into evidence.3 -
Don't hate me but the whole "you can be obese and healthy" mindset is absurd to me. Define healthy. You mean to tell me your joints don't ever hurt? You aren't at risk for more diseases than if you were of a normal weight? Be honest with yourself! Let's stop sugar coating (no pun intended) this by calling it "body positivity."
I have found that where honesty is in conflict with feelings, honesty becomes secondary, and "sugar coating" and enabling carry the day. Truth shaming is a real thing in these forums, lol.9 -
Bry_Lander wrote: »Don't hate me but the whole "you can be obese and healthy" mindset is absurd to me. Define healthy. You mean to tell me your joints don't ever hurt? You aren't at risk for more diseases than if you were of a normal weight? Be honest with yourself! Let's stop sugar coating (no pun intended) this by calling it "body positivity."
I have found that where honesty is in conflict with feelings, honesty becomes secondary, and "sugar coating" and enabling carry the day. Truth shaming is a real thing in these forums, lol.
It isn't one or the other. There can very easily be a balance. I've read a lot of your posts and, while they may be the truth, they lack compassion. You'd be well served to moderate your replies.
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Tacklewasher wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »Don't hate me but the whole "you can be obese and healthy" mindset is absurd to me. Define healthy. You mean to tell me your joints don't ever hurt? You aren't at risk for more diseases than if you were of a normal weight? Be honest with yourself! Let's stop sugar coating (no pun intended) this by calling it "body positivity."
I have found that where honesty is in conflict with feelings, honesty becomes secondary, and "sugar coating" and enabling carry the day. Truth shaming is a real thing in these forums, lol.
It isn't one or the other. There can very easily be a balance. I've read a lot of your posts and, while they may be the truth, they lack compassion. You'd be well served to moderate your replies.
There is certainly something to be said for choice of words influencing how it comes across, thereby either helping or hindering communication.7 -
Tacklewasher wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »Don't hate me but the whole "you can be obese and healthy" mindset is absurd to me. Define healthy. You mean to tell me your joints don't ever hurt? You aren't at risk for more diseases than if you were of a normal weight? Be honest with yourself! Let's stop sugar coating (no pun intended) this by calling it "body positivity."
I have found that where honesty is in conflict with feelings, honesty becomes secondary, and "sugar coating" and enabling carry the day. Truth shaming is a real thing in these forums, lol.
It isn't one or the other. There can very easily be a balance. I've read a lot of your posts and, while they may be the truth, they lack compassion. You'd be well served to moderate your replies.
It is an interesting dynamic to participate on certain message boards that have topics like "What are your unpopular opinions about health / fitness?", "All of my friends are getting bigger...", "Who's NOT Overweight", etc., where it is evident that there will be a more real/candid dialogue, with the perspective that people who share their unpopular opinions should be criticized for lacking compassion and are encouraged to "moderate themselves".9 -
SiegfriedXXL wrote: »joemac1988 wrote: »Another unpopular opinion I have is that fat-shaming has its place as long as the person doesn't have a legitimate eating disorder or medical problem. Hey, I was obese and if it wasn't for being fat-shamed I'd be even bigger today instead of 195lbs and 10%bf with an addiction to nutrition and working out. So don't say I haven't walked in their shoes. The problem I have with it is your obesity is affecting EVERYONE. Medical costs, health insurance costs, fast food on every corner from demand, you flowing onto my lap on the plane, etc, etc, etc.
Yawn....another former fatty who's turned the self hate they had for themselves while obese into a judgmental attitude for those still struggling.
Look, you don't ever have the right to tell someone they're too fat. YOUR obesity ALSO affected EVERYONE while you were obese and if you got a kick in the pants and fixed it, good on ya. However, a kick in the pants doesn't work for everyone and, again, you aren't the one who gets to make that choice for other people.
For me, I don't approve of obesity, my own, or anyone else's. All the problems you listed are legitimate consequences of obesity. I would never try to shame someone into losing weight, however, and the person who tried to do so to me would find out just how mistaken they were in the assumption that they had any right to do so.
Ok, I can accept this. I should have put it in the converse. What I should have said is the fat acceptance movement is BS. And is somewhat overlaps what I said in the sense of the family and friends that are enablers when they should be giving you tough love but supporting you.1 -
Bry_Lander wrote: »joemac1988 wrote: »Another unpopular opinion I have is that fat-shaming has its place as long as the person doesn't have a legitimate eating disorder or medical problem. Hey, I was obese and if it wasn't for being fat-shamed I'd be even bigger today instead of 195lbs and 10%bf with an addiction to nutrition and working out. So don't say I haven't walked in their shoes. The problem I have with it is your obesity is affecting EVERYONE. Medical costs, health insurance costs, fast food on every corner from demand, you flowing onto my lap on the plane, etc, etc, etc.
I remember a world where everyone wasn't so damned fragile, where people weren't obsessed with political correctness, and (gasp) people communicated honestly. Tactful, honest, constructive criticism has a place in society and redacting honesty from communication to spare feelings can (and has) enable(d) people to comfortably engage in destructive behavior and suffer real damage that is far beyond anything that words can inflict upon them.
Sometimes the best helping hand is a swift kick in the *kitten*5 -
Bry_Lander wrote: »Don't hate me but the whole "you can be obese and healthy" mindset is absurd to me. Define healthy. You mean to tell me your joints don't ever hurt? You aren't at risk for more diseases than if you were of a normal weight? Be honest with yourself! Let's stop sugar coating (no pun intended) this by calling it "body positivity."
I have found that where honesty is in conflict with feelings, honesty becomes secondary, and "sugar coating" and enabling carry the day. Truth shaming is a real thing in these forums, lol.
I think you can be honest and not harsh...but that being said who the kitten cares what some stranger on the internet says anyway.
and that goes both ways...
I have been accused of being harsh and mean on these forums and I don't give a flying kitten what these people say...I am not being being...I am not being harsh....but I am being honest...
So no it doesn't become secondary unless you care what others say/think...and if you care you probably aren't being harsh in the first place....hehe5 -
Bry_Lander wrote: »Don't hate me but the whole "you can be obese and healthy" mindset is absurd to me. Define healthy. You mean to tell me your joints don't ever hurt? You aren't at risk for more diseases than if you were of a normal weight? Be honest with yourself! Let's stop sugar coating (no pun intended) this by calling it "body positivity."
I have found that where honesty is in conflict with feelings, honesty becomes secondary, and "sugar coating" and enabling carry the day. Truth shaming is a real thing in these forums, lol.
Oh lordy if I had a dollar for every time someone labelled criticism as not being able to handle truth. I'd be a very rich lady indeed.8 -
I'm all for the truth, but I'm also all for compassion and not attacking someone with the facts directly in a way that feels like I'm attacking them personally. I'm not perfect, but I try to pick my words to the best of my ability not to be hurtful. The way I found well-received without overtly sugar coating or attacking someone is to try and make my posts factual and informative rather than accusatory. This puts the person in a position to self-reflect and think about what is being said instead of feeling hurt and immediately putting up defences. Kindness goes a long way, even if it's masquerading as dry facts. Another way I use is to simply share my experience with something without words of judgement directed at anyone.15
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amusedmonkey wrote: »I'm all for the truth, but I'm also all for compassion and not attacking someone with the facts directly in a way that feels like I'm attacking them personally. I'm not perfect, but I try to pick my words to the best of my ability not to be hurtful. The way I found well-received without overtly sugar coating or attacking someone is to try and make my posts factual and informative rather than accusatory. This puts the person in a position to self-reflect and think about what is being said instead of feeling hurt and immediately putting up defences. Kindness goes a long way, even if it's masquerading as dry facts. Another way I use is to simply share my experience with something without words of judgement directed at anyone.
Precisely. Unvarnished direct criticism may be honest, and it might be fun (for someone(s)), but it's a heckuva poor and low-percentage persuasion strategy.
That's completely leaving out any consideration of whether it's desirable to be, y'know, kind to people.
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Bry_Lander wrote: »Don't hate me but the whole "you can be obese and healthy" mindset is absurd to me. Define healthy. You mean to tell me your joints don't ever hurt? You aren't at risk for more diseases than if you were of a normal weight? Be honest with yourself! Let's stop sugar coating (no pun intended) this by calling it "body positivity."
I have found that where honesty is in conflict with feelings, honesty becomes secondary, and "sugar coating" and enabling carry the day. Truth shaming is a real thing in these forums, lol.
This suggests that you think some posts here are doing what Enjch5 is talking about, claiming that it is perfectly healthy to be obese (by which I mean to have body fat at obese levels, not just BMI). Curious to what posts you are referring.
In particular, I am not sure who Enjcg5 thinks would say that one can be healthy with weight resulting in "high blood pressure meds, high cholesterol meds, and...Metformin" or who would claim that obesity is not a health risk factor. Seems like a bit of a strawman to me.
On the other hand, when I was obese, I found it helpful to focus on making healthy changes rather than losing weight (although of course I wanted to and planned to lose weight too). For me, because I had a bit of a fear that I could not lose weight (which is dumb, but people have weird mental issues about weight loss), it was FAR easier to just take control of what I could: eating a healthy and calorie appropriate (i.e., deficit) diet, working up to doing more physically and getting back into shape. I think that was an excellent approach, for me, and part of that was deciding that I would be as healthy as possible, no matter what my weight did.
(And of course I lost weight.)
If you want to say that's "sugar coating" and enabling, whatever, worked for me.5 -
Bry_Lander wrote: »Don't hate me but the whole "you can be obese and healthy" mindset is absurd to me. Define healthy. You mean to tell me your joints don't ever hurt? You aren't at risk for more diseases than if you were of a normal weight? Be honest with yourself! Let's stop sugar coating (no pun intended) this by calling it "body positivity."
I have found that where honesty is in conflict with feelings, honesty becomes secondary, and "sugar coating" and enabling carry the day. Truth shaming is a real thing in these forums, lol.
"Truth shaming"?!
Heh. Dish out some "honesty", gotta expect some back atcha.9 -
amusedmonkey wrote: »I'm all for the truth, but I'm also all for compassion and not attacking someone with the facts directly in a way that feels like I'm attacking them personally. I'm not perfect, but I try to pick my words to the best of my ability not to be hurtful. The way I found well-received without overtly sugar coating or attacking someone is to try and make my posts factual and informative rather than accusatory. This puts the person in a position to self-reflect and think about what is being said instead of feeling hurt and immediately putting up defences. Kindness goes a long way, even if it's masquerading as dry facts. Another way I use is to simply share my experience with something without words of judgement directed at anyone.
Precisely. Unvarnished direct criticism may be honest, and it might be fun (for someone(s)), but it's a heckuva poor and low-percentage persuasion strategy.
That's completely leaving out any consideration of whether it's desirable to be, y'know, kind to people.
So you don't like the unpopular opinions that I have posted in the "What are your unpopular opinions about health / fitness?" forum?
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Bry_Lander wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »I'm all for the truth, but I'm also all for compassion and not attacking someone with the facts directly in a way that feels like I'm attacking them personally. I'm not perfect, but I try to pick my words to the best of my ability not to be hurtful. The way I found well-received without overtly sugar coating or attacking someone is to try and make my posts factual and informative rather than accusatory. This puts the person in a position to self-reflect and think about what is being said instead of feeling hurt and immediately putting up defences. Kindness goes a long way, even if it's masquerading as dry facts. Another way I use is to simply share my experience with something without words of judgement directed at anyone.
Precisely. Unvarnished direct criticism may be honest, and it might be fun (for someone(s)), but it's a heckuva poor and low-percentage persuasion strategy.
That's completely leaving out any consideration of whether it's desirable to be, y'know, kind to people.
So you don't like the unpopular opinions that I have posted in the "What are your unpopular opinions about health / fitness?" forum?
And you don't like that people are pointing out that they don't like your unpopular opinion?
See how that works?11 -
VintageFeline wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »I'm all for the truth, but I'm also all for compassion and not attacking someone with the facts directly in a way that feels like I'm attacking them personally. I'm not perfect, but I try to pick my words to the best of my ability not to be hurtful. The way I found well-received without overtly sugar coating or attacking someone is to try and make my posts factual and informative rather than accusatory. This puts the person in a position to self-reflect and think about what is being said instead of feeling hurt and immediately putting up defences. Kindness goes a long way, even if it's masquerading as dry facts. Another way I use is to simply share my experience with something without words of judgement directed at anyone.
Precisely. Unvarnished direct criticism may be honest, and it might be fun (for someone(s)), but it's a heckuva poor and low-percentage persuasion strategy.
That's completely leaving out any consideration of whether it's desirable to be, y'know, kind to people.
So you don't like the unpopular opinions that I have posted in the "What are your unpopular opinions about health / fitness?" forum?
And you don't like that people are pointing out that they don't like your unpopular opinion?
See how that works?
On the debate section, no less.1 -
VintageFeline wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »I'm all for the truth, but I'm also all for compassion and not attacking someone with the facts directly in a way that feels like I'm attacking them personally. I'm not perfect, but I try to pick my words to the best of my ability not to be hurtful. The way I found well-received without overtly sugar coating or attacking someone is to try and make my posts factual and informative rather than accusatory. This puts the person in a position to self-reflect and think about what is being said instead of feeling hurt and immediately putting up defences. Kindness goes a long way, even if it's masquerading as dry facts. Another way I use is to simply share my experience with something without words of judgement directed at anyone.
Precisely. Unvarnished direct criticism may be honest, and it might be fun (for someone(s)), but it's a heckuva poor and low-percentage persuasion strategy.
That's completely leaving out any consideration of whether it's desirable to be, y'know, kind to people.
So you don't like the unpopular opinions that I have posted in the "What are your unpopular opinions about health / fitness?" forum?
And you don't like that people are pointing out that they don't like your unpopular opinion?
See how that works?
So let me see if I understand it - people come to the unpopular opinion thread to chastise others for having an unpopular opinion. Got it...diannethegeek wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »I'm all for the truth, but I'm also all for compassion and not attacking someone with the facts directly in a way that feels like I'm attacking them personally. I'm not perfect, but I try to pick my words to the best of my ability not to be hurtful. The way I found well-received without overtly sugar coating or attacking someone is to try and make my posts factual and informative rather than accusatory. This puts the person in a position to self-reflect and think about what is being said instead of feeling hurt and immediately putting up defences. Kindness goes a long way, even if it's masquerading as dry facts. Another way I use is to simply share my experience with something without words of judgement directed at anyone.
Precisely. Unvarnished direct criticism may be honest, and it might be fun (for someone(s)), but it's a heckuva poor and low-percentage persuasion strategy.
That's completely leaving out any consideration of whether it's desirable to be, y'know, kind to people.
So you don't like the unpopular opinions that I have posted in the "What are your unpopular opinions about health / fitness?" forum?
And you don't like that people are pointing out that they don't like your unpopular opinion?
See how that works?
On the debate section, no less.
Actually, a debate entails discussing the merits of ideas and opinions from different points of view, not trying to shut down people because of your feelz...10 -
nutmegoreo wrote: »Tacklewasher wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »Don't hate me but the whole "you can be obese and healthy" mindset is absurd to me. Define healthy. You mean to tell me your joints don't ever hurt? You aren't at risk for more diseases than if you were of a normal weight? Be honest with yourself! Let's stop sugar coating (no pun intended) this by calling it "body positivity."
I have found that where honesty is in conflict with feelings, honesty becomes secondary, and "sugar coating" and enabling carry the day. Truth shaming is a real thing in these forums, lol.
It isn't one or the other. There can very easily be a balance. I've read a lot of your posts and, while they may be the truth, they lack compassion. You'd be well served to moderate your replies.
There is certainly something to be said for choice of words influencing how it comes across, thereby either helping or hindering communication.
It is always difficult to discern from written text, particularly in a message board with complete strangers, but it seems the crux of the issue with the choice of words and the way they are presented is that often the proposed feedback comes from a place of judgement, rather than a place of compassion, empathy and support. The comments people are taking issue with seem to have an underlying spirit of shallow focus solely on one's appearance - not on a genuine concern with the person's health (including both physical and mental health in that) and wanting to support them in their efforts. No acknowledgement of how difficult life can be, how challenging it can be to make the decision to make major changes to lose weight, to get healthier, to give up things you love - an example from another thread.... that if someone has "let themself go" then of course the spouse has the right to let them know that they are no longer attractive, no longer keeping up their end of the 'physical attraction part of the marriage contract', etc and if the person doesn't make the appropriate changes then of course the fit spouse is within their rights to choose to end the relationship.
I am all for direct, honest feedback - but the difference I see in the way some posters are presenting their viewpoint seems to lack a general compassion and empathy for human element of the hypothetical individuals that they are communicating with.15 -
This is my observation after reading about how WLS works. There's multiple consultations with doctors, dieticians, and other members of a support team that take a patient through pre-surgery weight loss, the surgery itself, and a period of time after. Most patients will lose weight because of the financial, physical and emotional investment they've made to the process along with the on-going education on how to continue losing on their own and maintaining that loss. Re-gaining the weight usually doesn't happen until they're on their own, and might not happen as often if that support was always available no matter how long ago the surgery.
My belief is that if a person who is candidate for WLS (whether they plan to go that route or not) had that same support system the success rate without surgery rate would be the same as with surgery. If that kind of intensive support system was available to anyone who needs to lose any amount of weight to get into a healthy range the success rate of weight loss maintenance would be significantly higher.
I'm not presenting this as an unpopular opinion, just some thoughts
observation/reading on how it is suppose to work vs reality are starkly different...I can guarantee it.
No matter the "support" or "education" people receive either before WLS, during or after...or for those who are losing without that if they do not take responsibility for what they put in the mouth aka food and quantity of it and apply the knowledge they get then they will always gain the weight back....
those are the facts and the bolded is unpopular I am sure...I will probably get a smack down for it.
I think you are absolutely right. One of my dear friends in college got WLS and dropped 200 pounds in a year. She looked great and had relatively few complications with the surgery, though none of them are fun. I just saw her at a concert we were singing together and she has gained it all back and more. At the after concert gala, I saw her walking around with a plate laden with canapes, methodically eating as she spoke to the donors. It breaks my heart to see this especially as she commented on my weight loss and asked if I had the surgery done as well. I haven't. It's been two years of trial and error. WLS didn't save her from anything because all of her weight related issues are back with the regained weight.5
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