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What are your unpopular opinions about health / fitness?
Replies
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Here: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11606-011-1968-2VintageFeline wrote: »
Didn't dance around anything. My biggest concern with it is over-consuming it without knowing you are having too much of it compared with how you would react to regular counterpart.stevencloser wrote: »
Exactly the reason for my respond above. I believe the stuff you eat matters to the organ. Sure it's 0 cal, but if u have too much of it, what would happen to ur organs? We all enjoy a little junk here n there from time to time. But when u r consuming something bad and not being aware or alert of it, that'd be troublesome.Alatariel75 wrote: »I don't believe in diet version of drinks. It's just as bad if not more harmful. Putting that on food diary to attempt to keep cal count low is just fooling yourself. Same goes for sugar substitutes. Just man up and consume the real thing, it's not the end of the world.
How is it more harmful? Why can't I spend those calories on something else? Or do you not believe that they're actually 0 calorie and that the manufacturers are lying and getting away with it?
You keep dancing around the question. WHAT is bad about it.
But to name other, diabetes, heart disease.
There is no sugar in, wait for it, sugar free drinks so how on earth can it impact/cause/exacerbate or whatever, diabetes?
Same goes for heart disease, where on earth have you seen a study that shows this link?
There is no evidence (not fear mongering blogs or websites) to indicate there is anything wrong with the consumption of diet drinks and any potential issues (so far only observed in mice as far as I'm aware) would call for drinking amounts that would cause far worse problems long before the side effects of the diet drink kicked in.
Oy vey.
That's a correlation not causation. People self reported what they consumed so not very precise. Everyone who has had a stroke drinks water so I guess water causes strokes too.10 -
janejellyroll wrote: »
Here: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11606-011-1968-2VintageFeline wrote: »
Didn't dance around anything. My biggest concern with it is over-consuming it without knowing you are having too much of it compared with how you would react to regular counterpart.stevencloser wrote: »
Exactly the reason for my respond above. I believe the stuff you eat matters to the organ. Sure it's 0 cal, but if u have too much of it, what would happen to ur organs? We all enjoy a little junk here n there from time to time. But when u r consuming something bad and not being aware or alert of it, that'd be troublesome.Alatariel75 wrote: »I don't believe in diet version of drinks. It's just as bad if not more harmful. Putting that on food diary to attempt to keep cal count low is just fooling yourself. Same goes for sugar substitutes. Just man up and consume the real thing, it's not the end of the world.
How is it more harmful? Why can't I spend those calories on something else? Or do you not believe that they're actually 0 calorie and that the manufacturers are lying and getting away with it?
You keep dancing around the question. WHAT is bad about it.
But to name other, diabetes, heart disease.
There is no sugar in, wait for it, sugar free drinks so how on earth can it impact/cause/exacerbate or whatever, diabetes?
Same goes for heart disease, where on earth have you seen a study that shows this link?
There is no evidence (not fear mongering blogs or websites) to indicate there is anything wrong with the consumption of diet drinks and any potential issues (so far only observed in mice as far as I'm aware) would call for drinking amounts that would cause far worse problems long before the side effects of the diet drink kicked in.
Oy vey.
"Further research is needed before any conclusions can be made regarding the potential health consequences of diet soft drink consumption."
This is also important:
We assessed diet and regular soft drink consumption using a food frequency questionnaire
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Here: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11606-011-1968-2VintageFeline wrote: »
Didn't dance around anything. My biggest concern with it is over-consuming it without knowing you are having too much of it compared with how you would react to regular counterpart.stevencloser wrote: »
Exactly the reason for my respond above. I believe the stuff you eat matters to the organ. Sure it's 0 cal, but if u have too much of it, what would happen to ur organs? We all enjoy a little junk here n there from time to time. But when u r consuming something bad and not being aware or alert of it, that'd be troublesome.Alatariel75 wrote: »I don't believe in diet version of drinks. It's just as bad if not more harmful. Putting that on food diary to attempt to keep cal count low is just fooling yourself. Same goes for sugar substitutes. Just man up and consume the real thing, it's not the end of the world.
How is it more harmful? Why can't I spend those calories on something else? Or do you not believe that they're actually 0 calorie and that the manufacturers are lying and getting away with it?
You keep dancing around the question. WHAT is bad about it.
But to name other, diabetes, heart disease.
There is no sugar in, wait for it, sugar free drinks so how on earth can it impact/cause/exacerbate or whatever, diabetes?
Same goes for heart disease, where on earth have you seen a study that shows this link?
There is no evidence (not fear mongering blogs or websites) to indicate there is anything wrong with the consumption of diet drinks and any potential issues (so far only observed in mice as far as I'm aware) would call for drinking amounts that would cause far worse problems long before the side effects of the diet drink kicked in.
Oy vey.
When I was a server I noticed a common phenomenon. People who are really overweight often order diet soft drinks. I don't know if it is a misplaced attempt at doing the right thing or if it is some kind of cognitive dissonance, because they would then go on to order potato skins with cheese/bacon/sour cream, ribs and fries and to top it off a mudslide sundae. With a refill of diet soda.
Vascular events would definitely be part of their diet program - if I were to guess.7 -
Sincere question here:
How much diet soda is considered to be too much diet soda? Meaning how much at one time or how much per day is considered to be unhealthy?0 -
Here: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11606-011-1968-2VintageFeline wrote: »
Didn't dance around anything. My biggest concern with it is over-consuming it without knowing you are having too much of it compared with how you would react to regular counterpart.stevencloser wrote: »
Exactly the reason for my respond above. I believe the stuff you eat matters to the organ. Sure it's 0 cal, but if u have too much of it, what would happen to ur organs? We all enjoy a little junk here n there from time to time. But when u r consuming something bad and not being aware or alert of it, that'd be troublesome.Alatariel75 wrote: »I don't believe in diet version of drinks. It's just as bad if not more harmful. Putting that on food diary to attempt to keep cal count low is just fooling yourself. Same goes for sugar substitutes. Just man up and consume the real thing, it's not the end of the world.
How is it more harmful? Why can't I spend those calories on something else? Or do you not believe that they're actually 0 calorie and that the manufacturers are lying and getting away with it?
You keep dancing around the question. WHAT is bad about it.
But to name other, diabetes, heart disease.
There is no sugar in, wait for it, sugar free drinks so how on earth can it impact/cause/exacerbate or whatever, diabetes?
Same goes for heart disease, where on earth have you seen a study that shows this link?
There is no evidence (not fear mongering blogs or websites) to indicate there is anything wrong with the consumption of diet drinks and any potential issues (so far only observed in mice as far as I'm aware) would call for drinking amounts that would cause far worse problems long before the side effects of the diet drink kicked in.
Oy vey.
"We assessed diet and regular soft drink consumption using a food frequency questionnaire..."
Those are not very reliable...2 -
Not trying to have an argument here. It's just my opinion and the side of studies that I chose to believe.RuNaRoUnDaFiEld wrote: »I don't believe in diet version of drinks. It's just as bad if not more harmful. Putting that on food diary to attempt to keep cal count low is just fooling yourself. Same goes for sugar substitutes. Just man up and consume the real thing, it's not the end of the world.
What's bad about a diet drink?
What am I fooling myself about?
If I'm drinking calories then it's going to wine.
To answer your questions, again it's just my person opinion. I understand there r studies that disagree just like there r studies that reaffirm it.
I believe there is more than just CICO when it comes to health. Stuff you eat matters to the organs. If organ malfunction, your CICO will be even harder to measure with the current at home device for average joe. If a person drink diet version of something for 0 cal purpose, it would be harmful in the long run. These diet drink tend to make people thinks it's alright to keep going at it. Compared with drinking the real thing, you would be alert a lot earlier.
Just to clarify, of course more than just CICO matters when it comes to health. I don't believe there's a single person who'd argue otherwise. CICO is short-hand for the energy balance equation that describes whether or not a person will lose weight. It has absolutely nothing to do with health or nutrition. I do not know why you think anyone would conflate the two except that it's a common strawman that's been knocked down about a hundred times in this thread alone.
7 -
Here: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11606-011-1968-2VintageFeline wrote: »
Didn't dance around anything. My biggest concern with it is over-consuming it without knowing you are having too much of it compared with how you would react to regular counterpart.stevencloser wrote: »
Exactly the reason for my respond above. I believe the stuff you eat matters to the organ. Sure it's 0 cal, but if u have too much of it, what would happen to ur organs? We all enjoy a little junk here n there from time to time. But when u r consuming something bad and not being aware or alert of it, that'd be troublesome.Alatariel75 wrote: »I don't believe in diet version of drinks. It's just as bad if not more harmful. Putting that on food diary to attempt to keep cal count low is just fooling yourself. Same goes for sugar substitutes. Just man up and consume the real thing, it's not the end of the world.
How is it more harmful? Why can't I spend those calories on something else? Or do you not believe that they're actually 0 calorie and that the manufacturers are lying and getting away with it?
You keep dancing around the question. WHAT is bad about it.
But to name other, diabetes, heart disease.
There is no sugar in, wait for it, sugar free drinks so how on earth can it impact/cause/exacerbate or whatever, diabetes?
Same goes for heart disease, where on earth have you seen a study that shows this link?
There is no evidence (not fear mongering blogs or websites) to indicate there is anything wrong with the consumption of diet drinks and any potential issues (so far only observed in mice as far as I'm aware) would call for drinking amounts that would cause far worse problems long before the side effects of the diet drink kicked in.
Oy vey.
Did you read the abstract on that 'study'? The participants were between 59 and 79 years old and the assessment was done on the number of diet/regular sodas that they drank at that time... no where in the study does it say that it factored any pre-existing conditions that the men might have had, which basically nullifies any results that they may claim, since any of the 'events' that they attribute to the diet sodas might simply have happened anyway.2 -
drinking a diet coke right now, am I going to die or have a heart attack?5
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lessismoreohio wrote: »Sincere question here:
How much diet soda is considered to be too much diet soda? Meaning how much at one time or how much per day is considered to be unhealthy?
There is no "too much" established specifically for diet soda, but here is a rough list of what would be considered "too much" depending on the type and amount of sweetener used:Acesulfame potassium (Ace-K)
Brand names Sunett® and Sweet One®
~200x sweeter than table sugar and is often combined with other sweeteners
ADI: is 15 (mg/kg bw/d), or about 165 packets
Advantame
~20,000x sweeter than table sugar (sucrose)
ADI: is 32.8 (mg/kg bw/d), or about 4,000 packets per day
Aspartame
Brand names include Nutrasweet®, Equal®, and Sugar Twin®
~ 200x sweeter than table sugar
Does contain calories but due to sweetness consumers are likely to use much less of it. It is the only approved nutritive sugar-substitute because it contains more than 2% of the calories in the equivalent amount of sugar.
People who have a genetic disorder called Phenylketonuria (PKU) should avoid or restrict aspartame because they have problems metabolizing phenylalanine. Labels must include a statement to inform if a product contains phenylketonurics/phenylalanine.
ADI: is 50 (mg/kg bw/d), or about 165 packets per day
Neotame
Brand name Newtame®
~ 7,000 to 13,000x sweeter than table sugar
ADI: is .3 (mg/kg bw/d), or about 200 packets per day
Saccharin
Brand names include Sweet and Low®, Sweet Twin®, Sweet'N Low®, and Necta Sweet®
~200-700x sweeter than table sugar
ADI: is 15 (mg/kg bw/d), or about 250 packets per day
Sucralose
Brand name Splenda®
~600x sweeter than table sugar
ADI: is 5 (mg/kg bw/d), or about 165 packets per day
Another popular high-intensity sweetener is made from the Stevia plant. The Steviol Glycosides obtained from the leaves of this plant are very sweet and have been submitted to the FDA to become a GRAS.
Stevia/high purity steviol glycosides
Brand names include Truvia®, PureVia®, Enliten®
~200-400x sweeter than table sugar
Although not yet determined by the FDA, the Joint FAO/WHO Expert Committee on Food Additives (JECFA) ADI is 4(mg/kg bw/d), or about 29 packets5 -
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Here: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11606-011-1968-2VintageFeline wrote: »
Didn't dance around anything. My biggest concern with it is over-consuming it without knowing you are having too much of it compared with how you would react to regular counterpart.stevencloser wrote: »
Exactly the reason for my respond above. I believe the stuff you eat matters to the organ. Sure it's 0 cal, but if u have too much of it, what would happen to ur organs? We all enjoy a little junk here n there from time to time. But when u r consuming something bad and not being aware or alert of it, that'd be troublesome.Alatariel75 wrote: »I don't believe in diet version of drinks. It's just as bad if not more harmful. Putting that on food diary to attempt to keep cal count low is just fooling yourself. Same goes for sugar substitutes. Just man up and consume the real thing, it's not the end of the world.
How is it more harmful? Why can't I spend those calories on something else? Or do you not believe that they're actually 0 calorie and that the manufacturers are lying and getting away with it?
You keep dancing around the question. WHAT is bad about it.
But to name other, diabetes, heart disease.
There is no sugar in, wait for it, sugar free drinks so how on earth can it impact/cause/exacerbate or whatever, diabetes?
Same goes for heart disease, where on earth have you seen a study that shows this link?
There is no evidence (not fear mongering blogs or websites) to indicate there is anything wrong with the consumption of diet drinks and any potential issues (so far only observed in mice as far as I'm aware) would call for drinking amounts that would cause far worse problems long before the side effects of the diet drink kicked in.
Oy vey.
"We assessed diet and regular soft drink consumption using a food frequency questionnaire..."
Those are not very reliable...
They certainly aren't as reliable as controlled intake but it really is the best method for determining long term health affects.3 -
amusedmonkey wrote: »lessismoreohio wrote: »Sincere question here:
How much diet soda is considered to be too much diet soda? Meaning how much at one time or how much per day is considered to be unhealthy?
There is no "too much" established specifically for diet soda, but here is a rough list of what would be considered "too much" depending on the type and amount of sweetener used:Acesulfame potassium (Ace-K)
Brand names Sunett® and Sweet One®
~200x sweeter than table sugar and is often combined with other sweeteners
ADI: is 15 (mg/kg bw/d), or about 165 packets
Advantame
~20,000x sweeter than table sugar (sucrose)
ADI: is 32.8 (mg/kg bw/d), or about 4,000 packets per day
Aspartame
Brand names include Nutrasweet®, Equal®, and Sugar Twin®
~ 200x sweeter than table sugar
Does contain calories but due to sweetness consumers are likely to use much less of it. It is the only approved nutritive sugar-substitute because it contains more than 2% of the calories in the equivalent amount of sugar.
People who have a genetic disorder called Phenylketonuria (PKU) should avoid or restrict aspartame because they have problems metabolizing phenylalanine. Labels must include a statement to inform if a product contains phenylketonurics/phenylalanine.
ADI: is 50 (mg/kg bw/d), or about 165 packets per day
Neotame
Brand name Newtame®
~ 7,000 to 13,000x sweeter than table sugar
ADI: is .3 (mg/kg bw/d), or about 200 packets per day
Saccharin
Brand names include Sweet and Low®, Sweet Twin®, Sweet'N Low®, and Necta Sweet®
~200-700x sweeter than table sugar
ADI: is 15 (mg/kg bw/d), or about 250 packets per day
Sucralose
Brand name Splenda®
~600x sweeter than table sugar
ADI: is 5 (mg/kg bw/d), or about 165 packets per day
Another popular high-intensity sweetener is made from the Stevia plant. The Steviol Glycosides obtained from the leaves of this plant are very sweet and have been submitted to the FDA to become a GRAS.
Stevia/high purity steviol glycosides
Brand names include Truvia®, PureVia®, Enliten®
~200-400x sweeter than table sugar
Although not yet determined by the FDA, the Joint FAO/WHO Expert Committee on Food Additives (JECFA) ADI is 4(mg/kg bw/d), or about 29 packets
@amusedmonkey
Thank you.0 -
My biggest concern with it is over-consuming it without knowing you are having too much of it compared with how you would react to regular counterpart.
It seems to be really common to over-consume calories from beverages without really noticing you are taking them in, so drinking caloric soda does not prevent that.
On the other hand, if you are mindful about what you consume, there's no reason to assume you would not be mindful about consuming diet soda. Most of us here are mindful about what we consume.
As for a high cal meal + a diet soda, I don't get why people think there's some kind of causative effect. I stopped consuming regular soda as a teenager, and soon after lost the taste for it. I don't like it and find it unpleasant to drink when offered to me. That it has calories too is an extra bummer.
That I don't enjoy sugary soda (but do like diet coke) does not mean that I thought I could eat unlimited food and not get fat or that I ate more of other things. On the other hand, sure if I go out for a rare burger and fries at some local pub I might get a diet coke (only because I don't drink beer anymore), but it's not like I'd choose to get the sugary coke instead of the fries. If diet were not available I'd get water. (Often get water instead anyway.)
Why when I was fat did I not just get non diet soda? Well, because I didn't think it tasted any better (worse, in fact) and for me, even when I was not paying attention to calories I did not see the point of wasting calories on something that to me added no pleasure.4 -
8
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The diet A&W root beer or cream soda are excellent choices as well.
But the Cherry Vanilla Coke Zero I can only get from the Coke Remix machines is king. Speaking of which, I plan on having about 64 oz of it along with my pizza and salad for lunch. It's a fairly high calorie meal, but it would probably be double the number of calories with regular cherry vanilla Coke.4 -
You're crazy
Diet mt dew is the best4 -
lessismoreohio wrote: »Sincere question here:
How much diet soda is considered to be too much diet soda? Meaning how much at one time or how much per day is considered to be unhealthy?
IIRC, about a case a day or maybe it was more. I just remember that a person would be more likely to die of hyponatremia from too much fluids than anything caused by the diet soda.5 -
cmriverside wrote: »
Here: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11606-011-1968-2VintageFeline wrote: »
Didn't dance around anything. My biggest concern with it is over-consuming it without knowing you are having too much of it compared with how you would react to regular counterpart.stevencloser wrote: »
Exactly the reason for my respond above. I believe the stuff you eat matters to the organ. Sure it's 0 cal, but if u have too much of it, what would happen to ur organs? We all enjoy a little junk here n there from time to time. But when u r consuming something bad and not being aware or alert of it, that'd be troublesome.Alatariel75 wrote: »I don't believe in diet version of drinks. It's just as bad if not more harmful. Putting that on food diary to attempt to keep cal count low is just fooling yourself. Same goes for sugar substitutes. Just man up and consume the real thing, it's not the end of the world.
How is it more harmful? Why can't I spend those calories on something else? Or do you not believe that they're actually 0 calorie and that the manufacturers are lying and getting away with it?
You keep dancing around the question. WHAT is bad about it.
But to name other, diabetes, heart disease.
There is no sugar in, wait for it, sugar free drinks so how on earth can it impact/cause/exacerbate or whatever, diabetes?
Same goes for heart disease, where on earth have you seen a study that shows this link?
There is no evidence (not fear mongering blogs or websites) to indicate there is anything wrong with the consumption of diet drinks and any potential issues (so far only observed in mice as far as I'm aware) would call for drinking amounts that would cause far worse problems long before the side effects of the diet drink kicked in.
Oy vey.
When I was a server I noticed a common phenomenon. People who are really overweight often order diet soft drinks. I don't know if it is a misplaced attempt at doing the right thing or if it is some kind of cognitive dissonance, because they would then go on to order potato skins with cheese/bacon/sour cream, ribs and fries and to top it off a mudslide sundae. With a refill of diet soda.
Vascular events would definitely be part of their diet program - if I were to guess.
"It’s because people make false correlations. People who drink calorie-free drinks tend to fall for the Health Halo of Food effect: they assume because they’re drinking zero-calorie drinks they can eat more food. This leads them to consume a greater number of calories and gaining more weight (and fat). People then make a faulty correlation between the two: “Diet drinks cause weight gain”, instead of, “People end up eating more calories leading them to gain more weight”." (Quoted from this article: http://physiqonomics.com/aspartame/ )4
This discussion has been closed.
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