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Do diets work?
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Holy moly! I finally made it to the end!
I just do my best to hit my macro/calorie goals (sometimes I do, sometimes I don't because I find macros more difficult than calorie control) and don't demonize my food preferences, because I know myself well enough to understand that too many boneless, skinless, tasteless chicken breasts will make me fly into the arms of my favorite fast food restaurant. If I want the burger, I will have it. And I was super glad when Hardee's and Carl's Jr. became one, because when I moved away from California in the early 80's I missed the Western Bacon Cheeseburger from there the most. Now I can get one in NC any time I want.3 -
VintageFeline wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »KeithWhiteJr wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »Like I said you all eat whatever you want I really don't care - but I still hold firm - a salad with chicken breast is better than a Carls jr Cheeseburger
And a salad with a cut up cheeseburger on top is better than a double chicken rodeo sandwich from burger king.
nice moving bar you got here - I am speaking about a chicken breast plane you are talking about a BBQ sauce covered sandwich with white bread buns
Moving bar?
You're the one who has been changing the context of your "perfect meal" throughout the whole conversation.
First you were talking about chicken breast with lemon and bell pepper. Then it became salad with chicken and balsamic vinegar. Then we moved to chicken breast with some nuts and complex carbohydrates.
Please don't talk about moving the bar.
who said anything about a perfect meal all i said was a for the same calorie load you can get 4 times the amount of food and its more nutritious
What if you can't eat 4 times the food?
when you are trying to be fit you need the nutrients you can't get all your nutrition and a 1000 Calories burger and stay under your calorie load for the day unless you are an elite athlete that can burn those calories BTW 1000 calories is 5mile hike for the average 150 pound woman +/-
Wait, several pages ago that was a 600 calorie burger wasn't it? And 600 or 1000 (WTF is on it for 1000 calories?!) I could still easily fit it in my day. Because I'm more of a two bigger meals and a snack or two kind of gal.
Clearly the burger is gaining in power, it's fueled by our very contemplation of it. Give it a few more pages and it will be a 2,000 calorie burger. There's no telling where it will end. Soon only sumo wrestlers and Michael Phelps will be able to fit it into their day.
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lemurcat12 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »
are you asking me to provide with peer reviewed dietary analysis that a bacon western cheeseburger is less healthy than a chicken breast with balsamic salad?
No, people are asking specifically about the context of the overall diet. We are not asking you to compare two specific meals.
We're asking why the person who meets their nutritional needs with a variety of foods including a bacon cheeseburger is better off than the person who is meeting their nutritional needs while excluding bacon cheeseburgers (and, presumably, their components -- beef, bacon, cheese, and bread).
Foods don't exist in a vacuum, they exist in the context of an overall diet. That is what people are asking you about.
Although, a bacon cheeseburger is probably more balanced than a balsamic vinegar salad with chicken breast.
nah
2 meats and nitrates - lettuce onion ring and BBq sauce (sugar) vs. Chicken breast peppers - still lettuce - tomatos - cucumbers - hard boiled eggs vinegar AND 1/2 the calories
Why are two meats worse than one meat?
What on earth is wrong with lettuce and onion rings?
I was combining them as there is not real nutritional benefit difference between the 2 - What on earth is wrong with lettuce and onion rings? - nothing - I just like my onion sauteed not breaded
Breaded?? That's also a crime against humanity. Onions should be raw. especially on a bacon cheeseburger.
I'll gladly take up to 1/3 of a large onion on my Cheeseburger.
I think this conversation is giving us insight into the kind of burger Irishman1970 likes (BBQ sauce, breaded onion rings on it). Interesting that he assumes that's the kind of burger everyone else wants.
Not, of course, that it couldn't fit into a reasonable diet on occasion if it was what someone enjoyed.
Eating tons of chicken breast daily seems to me more of an issue (lack of variety) than occasionally having a bacon cheeseburger.
I also don't get how someone who seems to think fat and carbs are bad gets to 4000+ calories. It can't all be lemon chicken breast and salad with vinegar.
In the Special K thread, he was all about the fat being good...5 -
I wonder how many people involved/read this thread are having burgers inthe very near future because of it12
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Am I the only one who sees that diets don’t work! I’ve been reading all the posts on all these threads on MFP, and see that everyone is always dieting and always needing to loose weight! Weight watchers, slim fast, CICO, And the worst offender, eat less and exercise more!! You are what you eat, not how much you eat! Spend your life eating junk food , processed meat , sugary foods, and then think it’s okay as long as you eat in moderation!! Won’t work!!
If I am what I eat I'm pizza!...... ever hear of the Twinkie Diet?
cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/11/08/twinkie.diet.professor/index.html1 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »
are you asking me to provide with peer reviewed dietary analysis that a bacon western cheeseburger is less healthy than a chicken breast with balsamic salad?
No, people are asking specifically about the context of the overall diet. We are not asking you to compare two specific meals.
We're asking why the person who meets their nutritional needs with a variety of foods including a bacon cheeseburger is better off than the person who is meeting their nutritional needs while excluding bacon cheeseburgers (and, presumably, their components -- beef, bacon, cheese, and bread).
Foods don't exist in a vacuum, they exist in the context of an overall diet. That is what people are asking you about.
Although, a bacon cheeseburger is probably more balanced than a balsamic vinegar salad with chicken breast.
nah
2 meats and nitrates - lettuce onion ring and BBq sauce (sugar) vs. Chicken breast peppers - still lettuce - tomatos - cucumbers - hard boiled eggs vinegar AND 1/2 the calories
Why are two meats worse than one meat?
What on earth is wrong with lettuce and onion rings?
I was combining them as there is not real nutritional benefit difference between the 2 - What on earth is wrong with lettuce and onion rings? - nothing - I just like my onion sauteed not breaded
Breaded?? That's also a crime against humanity. Onions should be raw. especially on a bacon cheeseburger.
I'll gladly take up to 1/3 of a large onion on my Cheeseburger.
I think this conversation is giving us insight into the kind of burger Irishman1970 likes (BBQ sauce, breaded onion rings on it). Interesting that he assumes that's the kind of burger everyone else wants.
Not, of course, that it couldn't fit into a reasonable diet on occasion if it was what someone enjoyed.
Eating tons of chicken breast daily seems to me more of an issue (lack of variety) than occasionally having a bacon cheeseburger.
I also don't get how someone who seems to think fat and carbs are bad gets to 4000+ calories. It can't all be lemon chicken breast and salad with vinegar.
It's a good point -- these conversations always seem to wind up suggesting what the dietary prohibitionist in question thinks they would eat in the absence of certain internal restrictions.
To me, the Carls Jr Bacon Western Cheeseburger looks a bit bland and a bit gross (no judgment meant to those who enjoy them, I'm sure I enjoy things that look bland and gross to some) and I can't imagine wanting to eat it. For it to get held up as some sort of hedonistic cheeseburger delight is . . . a bit funny to me.
There are delicious looking bacon cheeseburgers in the world, that just doesn't strike me as one of them.1 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »
are you asking me to provide with peer reviewed dietary analysis that a bacon western cheeseburger is less healthy than a chicken breast with balsamic salad?
No, people are asking specifically about the context of the overall diet. We are not asking you to compare two specific meals.
We're asking why the person who meets their nutritional needs with a variety of foods including a bacon cheeseburger is better off than the person who is meeting their nutritional needs while excluding bacon cheeseburgers (and, presumably, their components -- beef, bacon, cheese, and bread).
Foods don't exist in a vacuum, they exist in the context of an overall diet. That is what people are asking you about.
Although, a bacon cheeseburger is probably more balanced than a balsamic vinegar salad with chicken breast.
nah
2 meats and nitrates - lettuce onion ring and BBq sauce (sugar) vs. Chicken breast peppers - still lettuce - tomatos - cucumbers - hard boiled eggs vinegar AND 1/2 the calories
Why are two meats worse than one meat?
What on earth is wrong with lettuce and onion rings?
I was combining them as there is not real nutritional benefit difference between the 2 - What on earth is wrong with lettuce and onion rings? - nothing - I just like my onion sauteed not breaded
Breaded?? That's also a crime against humanity. Onions should be raw. especially on a bacon cheeseburger.
I'll gladly take up to 1/3 of a large onion on my Cheeseburger.
I think this conversation is giving us insight into the kind of burger Irishman1970 likes (BBQ sauce, breaded onion rings on it). Interesting that he assumes that's the kind of burger everyone else wants.
Not, of course, that it couldn't fit into a reasonable diet on occasion if it was what someone enjoyed.
Eating tons of chicken breast daily seems to me more of an issue (lack of variety) than occasionally having a bacon cheeseburger.
I also don't get how someone who seems to think fat and carbs are bad gets to 4000+ calories. It can't all be lemon chicken breast and salad with vinegar.
I can't imagine trying to hit 4000 calories on salad and lean meat. I'd feel like a stuffed pig the entire time so working out would be impossible, I'd barf.
But also I learned something. Fitness is about what you eat. So step away from the equipment people, what you need is salad and grilled chicken. Quick, let the Olympics committee know everyone is wasting their time, they just need to step away from the pizza!8 -
Irishman1970 wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »KeithWhiteJr wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »Like I said you all eat whatever you want I really don't care - but I still hold firm - a salad with chicken breast is better than a Carls jr Cheeseburger
And a salad with a cut up cheeseburger on top is better than a double chicken rodeo sandwich from burger king.
nice moving bar you got here - I am speaking about a chicken breast plane you are talking about a BBQ sauce covered sandwich with white bread buns
Moving bar?
You're the one who has been changing the context of your "perfect meal" throughout the whole conversation.
First you were talking about chicken breast with lemon and bell pepper. Then it became salad with chicken and balsamic vinegar. Then we moved to chicken breast with some nuts and complex carbohydrates.
Please don't talk about moving the bar.
who said anything about a perfect meal all i said was a for the same calorie load you can get 4 times the amount of food and its more nutritious
What if you can't eat 4 times the food?
when you are trying to be fit you need the nutrients you can't get all your nutrition and a 1000 Calories burger and stay under your calorie load for the day unless you are an elite athlete that can burn those calories BTW 1000 calories is 5mile hike for the average 150 pound woman +/-
You can get all the micronutrients you need in a few hundred calories. Vegetables are awesome like that. What you need in protein and fats varies by your weight but the minimums are also just a few hundred calories. You can, in theory, get all the nutrition your body needs, your minimums, in below 1000 calories. The PSMF builds on that.
What your body doesn't need is 1000 calories of chicken breast when your maintenance calories is over 4000.
I still want to know whether the other 3000 are in your diet are also just "chicken and salad" or if you're eating something that actually has some calorie density that doesn't require you eating 10 pounds of food a day. Also your essential fats seem lacking.
Quinoa
Nuts
peanutbutter
Vegetables
Red lean meat
Cheeses
Chicken
Fish
butter and olive oil for cooking
Mayo for mixing
eggs
When I am in my growth cycles 4000+
When I am cutting 2800
and yes I seem to eat all day long
I don't understand why you consider BBQ sauce (mostly carbohydrates) to be empty calories but mayo (mostly fat) is somehow okay?
11 -
Irishman1970 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »
are you asking me to provide with peer reviewed dietary analysis that a bacon western cheeseburger is less healthy than a chicken breast with balsamic salad?
No, people are asking specifically about the context of the overall diet. We are not asking you to compare two specific meals.
We're asking why the person who meets their nutritional needs with a variety of foods including a bacon cheeseburger is better off than the person who is meeting their nutritional needs while excluding bacon cheeseburgers (and, presumably, their components -- beef, bacon, cheese, and bread).
Foods don't exist in a vacuum, they exist in the context of an overall diet. That is what people are asking you about.
Although, a bacon cheeseburger is probably more balanced than a balsamic vinegar salad with chicken breast.
nah
2 meats and nitrates - lettuce onion ring and BBq sauce (sugar) vs. Chicken breast peppers - still lettuce - tomatos - cucumbers - hard boiled eggs vinegar AND 1/2 the calories
Why are two meats worse than one meat?
What on earth is wrong with lettuce and onion rings?
I was combining them as there is not real nutritional benefit difference between the 2 - What on earth is wrong with lettuce and onion rings? - nothing - I just like my onion sauteed not breaded
Breaded?? That's also a crime against humanity. Onions should be raw. especially on a bacon cheeseburger.
I'll gladly take up to 1/3 of a large onion on my Cheeseburger.
I think this conversation is giving us insight into the kind of burger Irishman1970 likes (BBQ sauce, breaded onion rings on it). Interesting that he assumes that's the kind of burger everyone else wants.
Not, of course, that it couldn't fit into a reasonable diet on occasion if it was what someone enjoyed.
Eating tons of chicken breast daily seems to me more of an issue (lack of variety) than occasionally having a bacon cheeseburger.
I also don't get how someone who seems to think fat and carbs are bad gets to 4000+ calories. It can't all be lemon chicken breast and salad with vinegar.
In the Special K thread, he was all about the fat being good...
Fat is good - first thing burnt on a low carb diet - you should try to make it healthy fat when possible
A chicken breast has almost no fat...I'd think in the context of a keto diet, one would go with the burger sans bun and bacon to hit fat targets...context and all...6 -
Irishman1970 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »KeithWhiteJr wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »KeithWhiteJr wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »
are you asking me to provide with peer reviewed dietary analysis that a bacon western cheeseburger is less healthy than a chicken breast with balsamic salad?
No, people are asking specifically about the context of the overall diet. We are not asking you to compare two specific meals.
We're asking why the person who meets their nutritional needs with a variety of foods including a bacon cheeseburger is better off than the person who is meeting their nutritional needs while excluding bacon cheeseburgers (and, presumably, their components -- beef, bacon, cheese, and bread).
Foods don't exist in a vacuum, they exist in the context of an overall diet. That is what people are asking you about.
Although, a bacon cheeseburger is probably more balanced than a balsamic vinegar salad with chicken breast.
nah
2 meats and nitrates - lettuce onion ring and BBq sauce (sugar) vs. Chicken breast still lettuce - tomatos - cucumbers - hard boiled eggs vinegar AND 1/2 the calories
Well that's problem number 1. Who wants half the calories? Now I have to eat 2 salads. and you're probably still light on fat and protein
And what sort of criminal puts BBQ sauce on a bacon cheeseburger?
that is one of my many meals and I need the nutrition and don't want empty calories of breading bun sugar in the sauces - LOL BBQ - Carls Jr does
Why is your cheesburger in this scenario have a bun, onion rings and BBQ sauce on it, but the chicken doesn't have those things? Shouldn't they be equal to compare?
lean meat - sauteed onion rings and peppers a bit of mozzarella cheese maybe some crushed bacon - no bun no sauce in a lettuce wrap
Ok, but, you didn't even attempt to answer my question. Why cant I eat the burger that way? Why does it have to be on a bun, with deep-fried onion rings and BBQ sauce? To accurately compare, shouldn't the chicken breast be on a bun, with onion rings, smothered in BBQ sauce?
YOU CAAAAAAAN - my point was between the 2 that burger or a chicken breast with salad you can eat more nutritious food - if you are active and fit you need more nutrient dense food between the 2 - a Carls jr Bacon western Cheeseburger or a sald with chicken breast the later is the better choice for fitness
But didn't the Carl's Jr Bacon Western Cheeseburger originally come up because you were attempting to use it as some sort of stand-in for the typical cheeseburger?
Weren't you the one who did that while other people were arguing that cheeseburgers come in all sorts of forms and it's possible for all types of people to find a version that fits into their calorie and nutritional goals and there's nothing inherently unhealthy about foods that fall into the category of "cheeseburger"?
And all this in the context of you refusing to even explain why you are so convinced that someone who is meeting their nutritional needs but sometimes having a cheeseburger, even a Carl's Jr Bacon Western Cheeseburger, is going to be worse off.
Nope I used the 2 because the person thought I was part of the eat what you want as long as you stay within your calorie range
Well, are we talking weight loss (where they can work) or nutrition (where of course what you eat matters and some diets are bad and some good -- note: diet here means "way one eats")?
Of course, if you know anything about nutrition you know that there's no inherent nutritional difference between someone who only eats chicken breast as their protein vs. someone who eats a variety of protein sources, including occasional cheeseburgers.
Single meals do not make that much difference, it's the overall diet. And also a meal involving a cheeseburger can be nutrient dense, and in fact more nutrient dense than a meal involving a chicken breast (or 5, sigh).
If I like cheeseburgers and really want one, it is far more likely that making myself one (or even going out to dinner for one, although I wouldn't choose Carl Jr's, again, that seems to be your thing) will do more to deal with the temptation to overeat than having boneless skinless chicken breast (which I don't much care for). And I've never found that eating a cheeseburger makes me hungry the next day. I might save calories for it, but eh, that's not a huge trade off (I do this with meals I prefer at restaurants, like Indian food, all the time).4 -
Irishman1970 wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »KeithWhiteJr wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »Like I said you all eat whatever you want I really don't care - but I still hold firm - a salad with chicken breast is better than a Carls jr Cheeseburger
And a salad with a cut up cheeseburger on top is better than a double chicken rodeo sandwich from burger king.
nice moving bar you got here - I am speaking about a chicken breast plane you are talking about a BBQ sauce covered sandwich with white bread buns
Moving bar?
You're the one who has been changing the context of your "perfect meal" throughout the whole conversation.
First you were talking about chicken breast with lemon and bell pepper. Then it became salad with chicken and balsamic vinegar. Then we moved to chicken breast with some nuts and complex carbohydrates.
Please don't talk about moving the bar.
who said anything about a perfect meal all i said was a for the same calorie load you can get 4 times the amount of food and its more nutritious
What if you can't eat 4 times the food?
when you are trying to be fit you need the nutrients you can't get all your nutrition and a 1000 Calories burger and stay under your calorie load for the day unless you are an elite athlete that can burn those calories BTW 1000 calories is 5mile hike for the average 150 pound woman +/-
Wait, several pages ago that was a 600 calorie burger wasn't it? And 600 or 1000 (WTF is on it for 1000 calories?!) I could still easily fit it in my day. Because I'm more of a two bigger meals and a snack or two kind of gal.
depends on teh burger a 6 dollar burger BWC depending on what you want can range from 770 - 1000
I don't care what some arbitrarily picked burger's calorie content is but you moved the goal posts after being correctly told that a 600 calorie burger isn't half of many peoples calorie needs and so that was also a strawman.7 -
Irishman1970 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »KeithWhiteJr wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »Like I said you all eat whatever you want I really don't care - but I still hold firm - a salad with chicken breast is better than a Carls jr Cheeseburger
And a salad with a cut up cheeseburger on top is better than a double chicken rodeo sandwich from burger king.
nice moving bar you got here - I am speaking about a chicken breast plane you are talking about a BBQ sauce covered sandwich with white bread buns
Moving bar?
You're the one who has been changing the context of your "perfect meal" throughout the whole conversation.
First you were talking about chicken breast with lemon and bell pepper. Then it became salad with chicken and balsamic vinegar. Then we moved to chicken breast with some nuts and complex carbohydrates.
Please don't talk about moving the bar.
who said anything about a perfect meal all i said was a for the same calorie load you can get 4 times the amount of food and its more nutritious
What if you can't eat 4 times the food?
when you are trying to be fit you need the nutrients you can't get all your nutrition and a 1000 Calories burger and stay under your calorie load for the day unless you are an elite athlete that can burn those calories BTW 1000 calories is 5mile hike for the average 150 pound woman +/-
You can get all the micronutrients you need in a few hundred calories. Vegetables are awesome like that. What you need in protein and fats varies by your weight but the minimums are also just a few hundred calories. You can, in theory, get all the nutrition your body needs, your minimums, in below 1000 calories. The PSMF builds on that.
What your body doesn't need is 1000 calories of chicken breast when your maintenance calories is over 4000.
I still want to know whether the other 3000 are in your diet are also just "chicken and salad" or if you're eating something that actually has some calorie density that doesn't require you eating 10 pounds of food a day. Also your essential fats seem lacking.
Quinoa
Nuts
peanutbutter
Vegetables
Red lean meat
Cheeses
Chicken
Fish
butter and olive oil for cooking
Mayo for mixing
eggs
When I am in my growth cycles 4000+
When I am cutting 2800
and yes I seem to eat all day long
I don't understand why you consider BBQ sauce (mostly carbohydrates) to be empty calories but mayo (mostly fat) is somehow okay?
people eat enough sugar in their normal consumption I don;t want more
*You* don't want more. That doesn't mean that other people don't want carbohydrates.
Is there a logical reason why a food made mainly of a single macronutrient is "empty" if it's one type of macronutrient, but not "empty" if it's another macronutrient?8
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