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Intermittent fasting- just an acceptable way of starving yourself?
Replies
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anastasiadietitian wrote: »Calorie counting is also a way of starving yourself. Starving from food is how you get your body to use fat stores for energy. Its only a problem if you have a distorted body image or develop nutritional deficiencies from poor choices.
Agreed. Not sure what the woos are about on this one. If we were not all slightly “starving” we would be gaining weight and not losing. “Starving” and “calorie deficit” are just different words stating a similar bodily state. One sounds more harsh than the other and that is the only difference.19 -
I’ve noticed a few people saying that they are combining different types of IF diet (doing 5:2 and 16:8 for example) or limiting their eating window to a very short time. I like IF but part of me is uneasy about the way it makes skipping meals acceptable. What we reckon? Is IF just a way of people disguising disordered eating as an acceptable diet?
No. I do not have an eating disorder, otherwise I wouldn't be overweight. I get sick if I eat in the morning, and I'm not hungry anyway, so I drink my coffee and I'm fine until late afternoon. I start to get a little hungry around 4 or 5 pm, I get off work at 6:30, so this is fine for me. Then I go home and eat. Once in a while I will grab a small snack late afternoon, but I still end up eating within about a 6 hour window every day. I am definitely not starving myself.
Years ago when I tried to lose weight, I tried the eat 3 times a day and snacks, so was eating every couple of hours. That was a lot, and I was never hungry, so actually, I learned to eat more when I wasn't actually hungry. I get hungry now, and nobody will die from letting themselves be hungry for an hour or two.1 -
youngmomtaz wrote: »anastasiadietitian wrote: »Calorie counting is also a way of starving yourself. Starving from food is how you get your body to use fat stores for energy. Its only a problem if you have a distorted body image or develop nutritional deficiencies from poor choices.
Agreed. Not sure what the woos are about on this one. If we were not all slightly “starving” we would be gaining weight and not losing. “Starving” and “calorie deficit” are just different words stating a similar bodily state. One sounds more harsh than the other and that is the only difference.
Isn't slightly starving like being a little bit pregnant?15 -
youngmomtaz wrote: »anastasiadietitian wrote: »Calorie counting is also a way of starving yourself. Starving from food is how you get your body to use fat stores for energy. Its only a problem if you have a distorted body image or develop nutritional deficiencies from poor choices.
Agreed. Not sure what the woos are about on this one. If we were not all slightly “starving” we would be gaining weight and not losing. “Starving” and “calorie deficit” are just different words stating a similar bodily state. One sounds more harsh than the other and that is the only difference.
Isn't slightly starving like being a little bit pregnant?
the difference though when "starving" you continue to lose weight and you end up with health issues and it can also mean malnutrition. if you are counting calories you can eat enough to prevent these things from happening with a balanaced diet. there is no balanced diet when you are starving. so to me they are not the same thing.and if truly starving your body will start to cannibalize itself meaning it will use muscle,lean mass and so on to try and function. with a calorie deficit again you dont run into eating theses issues unless eating too little which in case you would be starving yourself.
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From a medical dictionary (https://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/starvation):Definition:
Starvation is the result of a severe or total lack of nutrients needed for the maintenance of life.
Starvation is always a calorie deficit, but a calorie deficit isn't always starvation.26 -
CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »youngmomtaz wrote: »anastasiadietitian wrote: »Calorie counting is also a way of starving yourself. Starving from food is how you get your body to use fat stores for energy. Its only a problem if you have a distorted body image or develop nutritional deficiencies from poor choices.
Agreed. Not sure what the woos are about on this one. If we were not all slightly “starving” we would be gaining weight and not losing. “Starving” and “calorie deficit” are just different words stating a similar bodily state. One sounds more harsh than the other and that is the only difference.
Isn't slightly starving like being a little bit pregnant?
the difference though when "starving" you continue to lose weight and you end up with health issues and it can also mean malnutrition. if you are counting calories you can eat enough to prevent these things from happening with a balanaced diet. there is no balanced diet when you are starving. so to me they are not the same thing.and if truly starving your body will start to cannibalize itself meaning it will use muscle,lean mass and so on to try and function. with a calorie deficit again you dont run into eating theses issues unless eating too little which in case you would be starving yourself.
That was my point. You can't be a little bit pregnant
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From a medical dictionary (https://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/starvation):Definition:
Starvation is the result of a severe or total lack of nutrients needed for the maintenance of life.
Starvation is always a calorie deficit, but a calorie deficit isn't always starvation.
starvation would be a deep calorie deficit I would think2 -
CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »youngmomtaz wrote: »anastasiadietitian wrote: »Calorie counting is also a way of starving yourself. Starving from food is how you get your body to use fat stores for energy. Its only a problem if you have a distorted body image or develop nutritional deficiencies from poor choices.
Agreed. Not sure what the woos are about on this one. If we were not all slightly “starving” we would be gaining weight and not losing. “Starving” and “calorie deficit” are just different words stating a similar bodily state. One sounds more harsh than the other and that is the only difference.
Isn't slightly starving like being a little bit pregnant?
the difference though when "starving" you continue to lose weight and you end up with health issues and it can also mean malnutrition. if you are counting calories you can eat enough to prevent these things from happening with a balanaced diet. there is no balanced diet when you are starving. so to me they are not the same thing.and if truly starvieng your body will start to cannibalize itself meaning it will use muscle,lean mass and so on to try and function. with a calorie deficit again you dont run into eating theses issues unless eating too little which in case you would be starving yourself.
That was my point. You can't be a little bit pregnant
exactly. I was still typing my post when yours popped up so dont know why its before yours lol2 -
The original post seems very judgy. Considering studies have shown (at least in lab rats) that IF promotes longevity, I think some people should reserve their judgment until they graduate from nutrition school. IF has worked well for me for maintenance, and I do take a daily multivitamin so it's not like I'm depriving myself of nutrients. One or two weekly days of fasting (that include a multi and plenty of hydration) aren't going to kill me, you, or anyone.14
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I think it's a very slippery slope that separates disordered eating from 'normal' ways of eating. I agree with the OP, I think some people do use IF in an unhealthy way (related to their eating disorder). But then, others won't. I don't think IF is bad in and of itself; but it can be used in an unhealthy way. That said though, I really wonder what eating 'healthily' is? The older I get the more I think that it's different for everyone (mentally) and every body (physically). IF is not for me. Eating Mcdonalds all day isn't for me either. But I'm not going to condemn anyone who chooses one or other of those. Their body isn't mine.4
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I absolutely abused 5:2. I get how it makes perfect sense if done correctly - eat maintenance calories 5 days a week, so that you know how to eat when you make goal and get your deficit by eating the equivalent of 17 meals a week instead of 21. If you really do that, it is a reasonable way to lose weight while still learning to eat exactly as you should.0
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CarvedTones wrote: »I absolutely abused 5:2. I get how it makes perfect sense if done correctly - eat maintenance calories 5 days a week, so that you know how to eat when you make goal and get your deficit by eating the equivalent of 17 meals a week instead of 21. If you really do that, it is a reasonable way to lose weight while still learning to eat exactly as you should.
That, and all the hormones that get jacked up from eating long term in a deficit, and body adaption - don't happen.
Plus if you follow the program correctly and the 2 days are 25% of avg TDEE (not the 500 & 600 thrown out as examples of sedentary people), overall that's only a 22% deficit for the week. Decently reasonable.
Now that I do IF, I think I could find 2 days that would have minimal impact on workouts and recovery.
But I prefer IF with 4-5 hr window.0 -
CarvedTones wrote: »I absolutely abused 5:2. I get how it makes perfect sense if done correctly - eat maintenance calories 5 days a week, so that you know how to eat when you make goal and get your deficit by eating the equivalent of 17 meals a week instead of 21. If you really do that, it is a reasonable way to lose weight while still learning to eat exactly as you should.
I more or less adhere to a 16/8 IF pattern (just because it fits my eating habits, not because I think there's anything magical about it), but 5:2 is absolutely out of the question for me. Just the thought of 500 calories per day makes me want to start eating the drywall off the dining room walls. Satiety and adherence would be zero, misery factor would be off the charts. Not denying that it works for some people, but it certainly wouldn't work for me.6 -
I think the thing about IF and eating disorders is that people with eating disorders often practice forms of intermittent fasting as an expression of a disorder. That doesn't mean anyone who fasts has an eating disorder, but probably some people who are involved in IF use the framework of IF to disguise (to others or to themselves) forms of disordered eating. Almost any method of approaching weight loss has the same issue, though - if people can use it to lose weight successfully, some will use the same method in a destructive way. For me, IF comes with too much baggage to implement safely. But not everyone has the same relationship with eating that I do.1
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I like doing it, but I binge eat after a while, but I do think fasting is a good thing to do even spiritually and mentally, but I am doing the eat 6 times a day, if I throw fasting in I binge, so I have laid low on it for a while.0
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I starve myself every night, for about 8-10 hours I don't eat.
As I'm eating at a calorie deficit I am "mildly starving" myself.
Humans store fat very easily because 10,000 years of evolution has conditioned us to be able to go days without eating. Take any collegiate level human physiology course and you'll learn all about that.
There's nothing wrong with intermittent fasting.1 -
youngmomtaz wrote: »anastasiadietitian wrote: »Calorie counting is also a way of starving yourself. Starving from food is how you get your body to use fat stores for energy. Its only a problem if you have a distorted body image or develop nutritional deficiencies from poor choices.
Agreed. Not sure what the woos are about on this one. If we were not all slightly “starving” we would be gaining weight and not losing. “Starving” and “calorie deficit” are just different words stating a similar bodily state. One sounds more harsh than the other and that is the only difference.
Actually no, starving and calorie deficit are not the same. Which is why people are woo'ing.
Calorie counting is a way to know how many calories you are actually eating. You can be eating to maintenance, to gain or to lose. In no way is calorie counting equal to starvation.7 -
I starve myself every night, for about 8-10 hours I don't eat.
As I'm eating at a calorie deficit I am "mildly starving" myself.
Humans store fat very easily because 10,000 years of evolution has conditioned us to be able to go days without eating. Take any collegiate level human physiology course and you'll learn all about that.
There's nothing wrong with intermittent fasting.
Yep.
I have the added "luxury" of taking my Blood Glucose reading when I wake. If I'm below 100 mg/dL, I'll have a banana before I go to the gym. If I'm above, no banana, don't need it. I need less sugar, not more.1 -
tbright1965 wrote: »youngmomtaz wrote: »anastasiadietitian wrote: »Calorie counting is also a way of starving yourself. Starving from food is how you get your body to use fat stores for energy. Its only a problem if you have a distorted body image or develop nutritional deficiencies from poor choices.
Agreed. Not sure what the woos are about on this one. If we were not all slightly “starving” we would be gaining weight and not losing. “Starving” and “calorie deficit” are just different words stating a similar bodily state. One sounds more harsh than the other and that is the only difference.
Actually no, starving and calorie deficit are not the same. Which is why people are woo'ing.
Calorie counting is a way to know how many calories you are actually eating. You can be eating to maintenance, to gain or to lose. In no way is calorie counting equal to starvation.
Per Oxford English Dictionary: a. The condition of being starved of food; suffering and gradual decline caused by lack of adequate nutrition, leading eventually (if unchecked) to death.
If unchecked. Eating at a deficit is starvation as you are not eating enough food into to maintain your current body. If you continue to eat at a deficit and drop below a healthy will, you will die from it. Your body is suffering, because it's using it's fat reserve as energy.9 -
I’ve noticed a few people saying that they are combining different types of IF diet (doing 5:2 and 16:8 for example) or limiting their eating window to a very short time. I like IF but part of me is uneasy about the way it makes skipping meals acceptable. What we reckon? Is IF just a way of people disguising disordered eating as an acceptable diet?
I have to say @aliblain your post caused me to do more thinking than I expected. From time to time I just past on eating late at night because of the heat and not being hungry. I do think it common for humans just to trade one vice for another.
In my case when I cut out foods that contain added sugars and or any form of any grain my binging and controlling cravings just faded away mainly in the first 30 days. That was four years ago and after I lost about 50 pounds I have maintained that loss within +/- 5 pounds for the past three years.
Since I eat for better health only now I do not track what I eat but when spot checking after the fact it will vary between 2000-3000 calories daily.
I do not see the typical IF methods as being harmful in any way for a person not being treated for any kind of health issues but if one is just being kept alive by Rx meds, etc one SHOULD without exception have your health care providers in the loop from day one.
I estimate the eating advice on this site and most any website to potentially be wrong or dangerous 90% of time for readers in general. While I will post about what works for me I never try to advice someone eat the same WOE that has worked so well for me for the past 4 years and now being age 67.
We are all different and have different health issues that we may not even be aware of at this time. Personally I order a lot of lab work on myself to keep track of the big picture. I pay for them when they are on sale often and do them between my normal annual exam at a doctors office. Keep in mind there are many labs that offer the same services that may have places to take the samples that may be more near your home, better prices, etc.
lifeextension.com/Vitamins-Supplements/Blood-Tests/Blood-Tests
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