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Abstainer vs moderator.

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  • PhirrgusPhirrgus Posts: 1,904Member Member Posts: 1,904Member Member
    I've heard abstinence is a great cardiovascular trainer...

    I recently saw this and it seems a bit related: www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0195666313004698?__s=6asobyqqjnscusjxvpm1
    Chocolate cake. Guilt or celebration? Associations with healthy eating attitudes, perceived behavioural control, intentions and weight-loss
    Author links open overlay panelRoeline G.KuijerJessica A.Boyce
    Show more
    https://doi.org/10.1016/j.appet.2013.11.013Get rights and content
    Highlights
    •Correlates of a default food association (‘guilt’ or ‘celebration’) were examined.
    •Guilt (vs. celebration) was related to lower levels of perceived behavioural control.
    •Guilt (vs. celebration) was related to less successful prospective weight maintenance.
    •Worry, concern and guilt about food are counterproductive.

    I think abstaining, the rigid kind of self-restraint, is ideally what people want to learn not to need to use. I think people that set abstinence up as a necessary restraint are going to have issues with guilt and failure when the abstinence breaks.

    It could be time or goals based.
  • mph323mph323 Posts: 3,323Member Member Posts: 3,323Member Member
    CSARdiver wrote: »
    Moderator with the vast majority of foods.

    I'm a near abstainer when is comes to potato chips. I gift myself portions on rare occasions, but man I can tear through a bag in no time.

    Fistbump!
  • diannethegeekdiannethegeek Posts: 14,831Member Member Posts: 14,831Member Member
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    I don't think it's really a legitimate distinction in such a hard and fast way. I think most people are likely abstainers about some things and moderators about other things or that ability to moderate varies depending on context.

    The person who came up with that distinction is now pushing a more nuanced (well, slightly) concept that people are one of four tendencies: Upholders, Questioners, Obligers, and Rebels, although people can be a mix. I think we actually see a lot of truth to that categorization when it comes to weight loss (I'm mostly a Questioner).

    https://quiz.gretchenrubin.com/?utm_source=website&utm_medium=homepage

    Anyway, for me neither moderator or abstainer is really correct. Even when I was overweight I didn't really keep so-called junk foods in my house, and if I overate in my house it was because I decided to indulgence and purchased something for that purpose (ordered Indian or bought ice cream or what not). I mostly overate at restaurants (good restaurants, I was a fat food snob), and at work where food is always around.

    Since I still go to the same kinds of restaurants, and cannot control what's at work, I control what I can, focusing on eating only at meals, filling meals with the foods I want to be eating, and portion control at restaurants. When losing I often had about 200 cal of ice cream at the end of the day (oddly I've lost my sweet tooth entirely lately), and I was able to moderate that. But I did not bake, as I find freshly baked goods harder to control, and more important I did not snack at work or at home (never really did at home, though), since once I start snacking it's hard for me to control what I eat and I don't feel satisfied. None of this really had to do with the type of food -- we'd get pizza for work lunch and I'd use portion control and have it with salad.

    This is interesting. I tested as an Obliger, which makes a lot of sense. I struggled a lot with the social aspects of dieting and especially instances where someone made or brought snacks that they wanted to share with people. I hadn't seen this setup before and I'll definitely be thinking more about it.
  • middlehaitchmiddlehaitch Posts: 8,102Member Member Posts: 8,102Member Member
    100% moderator.
    Never had a problem with overeating (don’t like being full/stuffed), just undermoving.

    Ooh, I am a rebel, according to the above test. Suits me to a T.

    Cheers, h.
  • quiksylver296quiksylver296 Posts: 25,592Member Member Posts: 25,592Member Member
    I consider myself a moderator because I don't consider anything off limits. That said, I agree with those above who say that you'll find a lot of middle ground between the two camps.

    I don't consider anything off limits, but there are also things that I bring into my house very rarely, if at all. I don't have cakes, cookies, little debbie snacks, chips, crackers, etc in the house 95% of the time. I might have them if I'm out and about running errands, at a friend's house, dining out, but it really depends on the day.

    But if there's something I really want or if it's a special occasion or a craving that just won't pass, I'm not going to deny myself that food.

    For me personally, thinking about food as "I can have this if I want it but not right now" instead of "I can't have this food because I'm on a diet" was a game changer. I recognize that it's not the same for everyone, though.

    This^^
  • gradchica27gradchica27 Posts: 549Member Member Posts: 549Member Member
    I've heard abstinence is a great cardiovascular trainer...

    I recently saw this and it seems a bit related: www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0195666313004698?__s=6asobyqqjnscusjxvpm1
    Chocolate cake. Guilt or celebration? Associations with healthy eating attitudes, perceived behavioural control, intentions and weight-loss
    Author links open overlay panelRoeline G.KuijerJessica A.Boyce
    Show more
    https://doi.org/10.1016/j.appet.2013.11.013Get rights and content
    Highlights
    •Correlates of a default food association (‘guilt’ or ‘celebration’) were examined.
    •Guilt (vs. celebration) was related to lower levels of perceived behavioural control.
    •Guilt (vs. celebration) was related to less successful prospective weight maintenance.
    •Worry, concern and guilt about food are counterproductive.

    I think abstaining, the rigid kind of self-restraint, is ideally what people want to learn not to need to use. I think people that set abstinence up as a necessary restraint are going to have issues with guilt and failure when the abstinence breaks.

    I agree, though it’s the training that’s hard for people like me who have lived like that for decades. For many years I had success by training myself to think I didn’t like certain high calorie foods bc they’re “gross”. Well, I still largely dislike sour cream, cream cheese, mayo, and most creamy salad dressings, but i did realize butter can be tasty. I keep trying it with crummy candy, but one or two and I start thinking they’re not so bad.
    edited March 8
  • Adc7225Adc7225 Posts: 1,386Member Member Posts: 1,386Member Member
    Talk about putting things in perspective ;)

    I was an abstainer and lost 86 pounds

    I am now a moderator and have gained 20 pounds

    I want to be an abstainer again! I can say that my abstaining was easier at the time because I was only cooking for one, now that I cook for 2 it has been harder to just not eat things I would prefer to abstain from eating but I am getting back to that slowly.
  • InsertFunnyUsernameHereInsertFunnyUsernameHere Posts: 271Member Member Posts: 271Member Member
    In theory you can eat anything you want, in moderation.

    In practice, we all have specific foods that trigger us into binge eating. It works best to avoid those foods as often as you can.

    Pasta is something I just can't eat anymore. A big bowl of pasta just fuels my appetite. An hour later, I'm hungry again. I don't know why. Maybe it's the Italian in my blood.
    edited March 9
  • PhirrgusPhirrgus Posts: 1,904Member Member Posts: 1,904Member Member
    Phirrgus wrote: »

    Over time, the desire to indulge has grown less intense.....
    This part, here...this is what I continually hope for.

    Same here. I tend to abstain from things, then when I don’t really “crave” it I’ll eat one or two and think, “meh”. Then a little while later (hours, days) I’ll eat another one and bam! one sleeve of Oreos down. Then it’s all the junk food looking delicious (even things like Fritos that I don’t even like).

    But I do notice the rampant lack of self control and junky cravings tends to go hand in hand with sloppy logging (ie, log breakfast and lunch, have plenty of calories for planned dinner, maybe eat that dinner or some of it and “just one” treat. Then..crazy town. I need to log it all and just realize that’s how it is).

    @gradchica27 Sounds like you read a page out of my food life 😉😁
  • lemurcat2lemurcat2 Posts: 3,339Member Member Posts: 3,339Member Member
    In theory you can eat anything you want, in moderation.

    In practice, we all have specific foods that trigger us into binge eating. It works best to avoid those foods as often as you can.

    Pasta is something I just can't eat anymore. A big bowl of pasta just fuels my appetite. An hour later, I'm hungry again. I don't know why. Maybe it's the Italian in my blood.

    For me, there are some foods I struggle with more than others (usually if they are in an excess serving or available in unlimited amounts -- naan at Indian restaurants if I have curry to dip it in, good tortilla chips at a Mexican place, again if I have good salsa or guac to dip it in, and really good fries). Another is salted nuts.

    None of that triggers me into binge eating, but I'll keep eating it while it's there. I control it just by limiting how often I make it even an option. Early on I worked on not having naan (and choosing low cal options) at an Indian place and the like, but I decided I wasn't interested -- I'd rather just have Indian less often and be able to eat what I want when there, it's just one meal and I can eat lightly the rest of the day or do it the night before/right after a planned half marathon or whatever.

    What I find makes more of a difference is when and how I eat. If I focus on eating only at my regular meals (and maybe a planned dessert after dinner), I generally am fine, no matter what I eat. I control the portion, remind myself I've had plenty, and have no habits of getting seconds or eating before my next meal. If I forget about that and decide to start snacking, or get in a habit of snacking (as I often do during Christmas season), then I struggle much more not to overeat. During the holidays I get invited to lots of work-related cocktail parties, and those are tough because I can eat endless appetizers (way over my cals) and still not feel like I've had dinner (although I consider it such). Mentally I need the sense of having a meal, and snacking (or lots of little appetizers) just makes me want to keep eating without any satiety.

    So I don't really abstain from any foods, but I do abstain from snacking and (most of the time) seconds, and find that to be pretty important to my success.
    edited March 9
  • FflpnariFflpnari Posts: 730Member Member Posts: 730Member Member
    Im both with certain foods. I can have chocolate ice cream in the house and portion it out every day. Have cookies in the house and they are gone by the end of the day
  • anthocyaninaanthocyanina Posts: 86Member Member Posts: 86Member Member
    I'm an abstainer, but not because I have no self control. If I don't want to eat certain foods, I just put them in a category of "not food". This started when I was a child and decided to become a vegetarian because I "didn't want to eat animals". It's branched out to currently include all kinds of things I consider to be unhealthy.

    People think I have all kinds of self-control, but I'm no more tempted by a double bacon cheeseburger or donuts at work than by the cardboard box they came in.

    On the quiz above I got Questioner, which fits me well. I collect information (not internet woo) until I'm satisfied, make my decision, and then direct my curiosity/emotions/attention elsewhere.
  • GummiMundiGummiMundi Posts: 75Member Member Posts: 75Member Member
    Did the test.

    I learned I'm the type of person who gets annoyed at online tests that want your email address, but don't say so until you've answered all the questions.....

    Yep. I refused to give them my email address, so I'm gonna go and guess that I'd probably get "Rebel" as the test result. :D

    To stay on topic, though, I'm definitely a moderator. I find that if I have no sweets at home my cravings are huge. I mean "going to a convenience store in the middle of the night to buy a chocolate bar" huge. ;) If, on the other hand, I have them easily available at home, then all is well. I don't even think about them. I'll only eat those sweets if and when I want to, and they sometimes last me for weeks or even months.
  • leanjogreen18leanjogreen18 Posts: 2,492Member, Premium Member Posts: 2,492Member, Premium Member
    Moderator and like others I moderate different foods differently. Cashews I can have a serving and be fine. Potato chips have to be planned and I get the individual lunch size bag so when they’re gone they’re gone. Homemade bread I make sure to make it only when I have friends or family over so the loaf is gone that day.
  • Ed_ZillaEd_Zilla Posts: 207Member Member Posts: 207Member Member
    Both

    Moderation - for anything I eat or drink - except - Abstain from all alcohol.

    Alcohol and I don't always have an off-switch...so I pulled the plug.
  • J72FITJ72FIT Posts: 5,291Member Member Posts: 5,291Member Member
    crazyravr wrote: »
    Which one are you?

    Are you really able to have whatever you want BUT in moderation.
    OR
    Do you simply avoid / abstain from many things because well, you cannot moderate them?

    I myself am an abstainer. I simply dont bring stuff home that I know I will not be able to control myself around.

    When I want to maintain I am mostly a moderator. When I want to cut I am mostly an abstainer. It helps me achieve my goals without having to track. That said, I learned how to moderate by tracking, for years. Now I just can eyeball my portions and for the most part stay the course...
    edited March 9
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