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“Large” Restaurant Customers need special accommodation?
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amyepdx
Posts: 750 Member
in Debate Club
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/12/dining/larger-customers-restaurants.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share
What do you all think?
I think by the time I got to the point of “but all I can think about is the pain in my thighs and the arms of the chair pinching my sides and how much longer I will have to pretend everything is fine.” I’d worry more about getting healthy than which restaurant seats I can fit into.
She’s only 30 years old - that makes me sad too.
What do you all think?
I think by the time I got to the point of “but all I can think about is the pain in my thighs and the arms of the chair pinching my sides and how much longer I will have to pretend everything is fine.” I’d worry more about getting healthy than which restaurant seats I can fit into.
She’s only 30 years old - that makes me sad too.
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Replies
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That was a difficult read. It shocked me to see the modern verbiage of people who "identify" as fat, obese, or large. That doesn't seem to be something up to personal choice.
I've been very obese most of my life. The only time I ever saw commercial accommodations for fat people was when I went with my wife to see a dietician for her severe undereating. The customer chair in the dieticians office was several inches wider than normal.16 -
JeromeBarry1 wrote: »That was a difficult read. It shocked me to see the modern verbiage of people who "identify" as fat, obese, or large. That doesn't seem to be something up to personal choice.
Exactly - I was trying to figure out how to articulate that point. The denial was unbelievable
Fun fact - I live in the same neighborhood as that restaurant.2 -
It seems like a good business decision to have the capability to accommodate customers of all sizes ( it can also be good design and doesn't need to be unsightly ).
Should this fall under the ADA Laws? Dunno; good question / separate issue.
If It's my restaurant, I want anyone and everyone to feel welcome and happy to be there. With the obesity epidemic on the rise, this isn't an issue that's going away.
Restaurant owners and space designers need to take their customer demographics into account when making all decisions pertaining to their business. The accommodation of large people might not be a comfortable or trendy conversation, however ignoring the problem isn't wise.31 -
The article was an interesting read and I had never really thought about the issue before. I think people here sometimes get the idea behind "fat acceptance" wrong. It's not saying that being obese is great and everyone should be fine with being obese. If you read all the stories in the article, most weren't proud of it and some were aiming to change their situation. It's more about realizing that obese people are people too, and that their obesity shouldn't preclude them from being able to live a life of dignity. That's really all they are asking for. And some care into designing restaurants or other public spaces to take into account people who have a high weight would be a good thing.46
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As a severely morbidly obese person I know the feeling: Are there chairs I can move around so I can fit near the table or are there fitted benches I can't squeeze in? Do the chairs look strong enough? Do the chairs have arm rests I can't fit in? Can I see a plain, strong, well built chair somewhere which I can carry over to my table? Plastic chairs (in a restaurant's garden setting) are a strict no - no. It doesn't help to bring me another plastic disaster after I have destroyed the first one. And finally - the great entertainment I provide free of charge to the restaurant assembly - guests, waiters, even the chefs come out of the kitchen to have a look. Maybe I should charge an entertainment fee and bring my own chair........39
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As Mike and Motorsheen said, being able to accommodate customers from a restaurant's perspective makes economic and moral sense; restaurants are also considered part of the hospitality business, and making someone feel bad isn't part of that. Large people know they are fat. Not having a chair for them isn't going to fix that.
Roxanne Gay's name is mentioned in the article as one of the app testers. If you know about her autobiography Hunger, you'll know why I thought of Dr. Bessel van der Kolk (The Body Keeps the Score: Brain, Mind, and Body in the Healing of Trauma)... let's just say there is a very high correlation between a certain population of people with obesity, and terrible childhood trauma. There's a lot we need to address in this country if we want to achieve nation-wide physical and mental health.
:edit: Like most of us using this app, I do believe strongly in personal responsibility, and I don't find myself convinced by some of the HAES ideology. Yet compassion has a role. And yes, there's something uniquely messed up about the American obesogenic environment.12 -
The article was an interesting read and I had never really thought about the issue before. I think people here sometimes get the idea behind "fat acceptance" wrong. It's not saying that being obese is great and everyone should be fine with being obese. If you read all the stories in the article, most weren't proud of it and some were aiming to change their situation. It's more about realizing that obese people are people too, and that their obesity shouldn't preclude them from being able to live a life of dignity. That's really all they are asking for. And some care into designing restaurants or other public spaces to take into account people who have a high weight would be a good thing.
I guess I did take away that the main woman in the story - posing on the barstool & creating an app - was kind of proud, probably to promote the app.
If I’m being honest (and not politically correct), that did bother me.
I was 90 lbs heavier and things like needing a seat belt extender on a plane and being in pain doing normal things were my wake up call. I’m still at least 30 lbs overweight and I don’t want to come off judgmental but I did want to get others’ thoughts so thanks for commenting.
The other commenter’s insight about the morbidly obese having had such severe traumas that makes it “not all their fault” was interesting. I never quite thought of it that way. I’ve watched enough of My 600 lb Life so that does make sense.
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I'm not sure I wouldn't go out of my way to accommodate everyone I could, were I a restaurant owner. Whatever my personal views on obesity/the reasons behind obesity/what obese people ought to do about obesity...the simple fact of the matter is that people come in all shapes and sizes. It's always been that way and will likely always be that way.
I've never been obese, but I have seen my dad and other relatives try to get comfortable in an establishment, it's hard to watch. So with that in mind, I would prefer to allow everyone possible to visit with dignity and comfort.
I do have strong opinions on obesity by the way. I just don't believe in making someone squirm so I can uphold my opinion.15 -
Motorsheen wrote: »It seems like a good business decision to have the capability to accommodate customers of all sizes ( it can also be good design and doesn't need to be unsightly ).
Should this fall under the ADA Laws? Dunno; good question / separate issue.
If It's my restaurant, I want anyone and everyone to feel welcome and happy to be there. With the obesity epidemic on the rise, this isn't an issue that's going away.
Restaurant owners and space designers need to take their customer demographics into account when making all decisions pertaining to their business. The accommodation of large people might not be a comfortable or trendy conversation, however ignoring the problem isn't wise.
How far do you go with it though? Should restaurants consider that someone may roll in at 800 pounds?
As someone who was once 320 pounds, I guess I realized that a change had to be made once I couldn't fit into things like chairs and booths at restaurants.
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Just throwing this out for considerstion, not my opinion...
I identify as a tall slender female (ha!). Should restaurants have seating which prevents my knees from hitting the underside of a table? Should bar stools always have padding since I don't have much of my own? Should the distance between chairs be closer so I can be a comfortable distance to the others in my party?
I identify as a lefted handed person (ha!). Should we switch the orientation of place settings, water glass and silverware? Should the TP be on the other side of the stall? Should door handles be changed to the other side?
What about if I identify as a great tipper, a horrible tipper, a fast eater, a slow eater, a yeller, a rude patron, a very short person, a drunk, allergic to 10000 things, a (insert anything here)... Should I be accommodated?
Just some thoughts to ponder...56 -
I actually read the whole article and found it to be well-written and balanced while bringing up a subject many may have never thought about. I do think that apps like Open Table can be very valuable too. I have twins that are 6'6 and 220-240. They fit nowhere. We have to by extended airline seats, bigger cars etc.
I often book restaurants on OpenTable and in the comment section explain that we need a bit of extra room. I find restaurants to be exceedingly accommodating. If not, when we enter we ask. The host doesn't always notice even though they are often looking at the boys' belt buckles. The staff at restaurants are busy, stressed and trying. Be nice and just ask for what you need. If you have to wait or sit in the back, relax, it's not a moral judgement.
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runnermom419 wrote: »Motorsheen wrote: »It seems like a good business decision to have the capability to accommodate customers of all sizes ( it can also be good design and doesn't need to be unsightly ).
Should this fall under the ADA Laws? Dunno; good question / separate issue.
If It's my restaurant, I want anyone and everyone to feel welcome and happy to be there. With the obesity epidemic on the rise, this isn't an issue that's going away.
Restaurant owners and space designers need to take their customer demographics into account when making all decisions pertaining to their business. The accommodation of large people might not be a comfortable or trendy conversation, however ignoring the problem isn't wise.
How far do you go with it though? Should restaurants consider that someone may roll in at 800 pounds?
As someone who was once 320 pounds, I guess I realized that a change had to be made once I couldn't fit into things like chairs and booths at restaurants.
There are legal and industry standards for what constitutes "reasonable accommodation." Very small businesses, for example, may not be required to be wheelchair-accessible.5 -
I think something else to consider is just cold practicality. The restaurant business is hairy - most new restaurants won't survive. They are often moving into a space that is already laid out and don't have tons of money to change the layout to allow for plus size booths or chairs. And as any short woman (who sometimes feels like a 5 yr old who needs a booster seat in regular restaurant setups) will tell you, if you design a booth or chair for a 300+ lb person, many smaller people won't be able to use it. So do you have two booths that have to sit empty while people wait if no one that size happens to show up? Which is better for your profit margin - having space available to accommodate larger people and risking it sitting empty if no one who can use it shows up, or losing out on the business of larger people because they can't fit? And as previously asked, how big should you accommodate? Do you have booths for up to 300 lbs, and booths for up to 500 lbs?
Perhaps chain restaurants have better finances and more corporate backing to be able to design a more inclusive layout. Or some kind of convertible situation, where a regular setup can be converted if someone needs it. But most small restaurants, lunch shops, local dives etc are working with limited space and are desperate to serve as many people as possible to aim for a razor thin profit margin. Unless they find themselves often dealing with customers who can't eat there because of their size or embarrassing situations when they try to, I can't imagine doing much about it is possible for many of them.
While I feel awful for people whose size puts them in this situation in the first place, I'm not sure expecting restaurants to find a way to change that is realistic.39 -
I live in one of the 'heaviest' states in the US. Many of non-chain the restaurant in area have changed owners many times, and there is no or little thought given to 'space design' of any kind. The new owners just add a new layer of paint to existing space and keep going..
The chain restaurants seem mostly stuck with the company standards, regardless of the region or customer demographics. There is very little wiggle room built in, unless it's for wheelchair access.
While I personally feel, that all customers deserve to dine with dignity, setting up the entire restaurants for a heavy crowd is a major expense and not reasonable. However, it seems reasonable to me, that there are some chairs provided, that are safe to use for overweight people. After all, there could be a liability issue, and a restaurant has every right to protect their interests, IMO. And they should.
I don't believe that special accommodations should be turned into a standard. You should not be afraid to ask, if it can be provided, but shouldn't start a drama if the restaurant can't deliver. Overweight people need to be honest about their condition as well, and should make reservations accordingly.
I wasn't able to read the entire article due to the required log-in, but it seemed to me, that being in denial about one's excess weight caused most of the embarrassment involved, with the seat shuffling.
As a considerate host, you will want to plan any event ahead, to make sure that the arrival of your party at a restaurant goes smoothly. That's for your own party, as well as the comfort of the guests that are already dining. They deserve peace and quiet, too. For me, setting up special accommodations are part of the planning. The restaurant staff shouldn't have to start moving furniture in the middle of their rush hour, with innocent patrons having to hold on to their bouncing soup bowls.
Just my opinion..11 -
funjen1972 wrote: »Just throwing this out for considerstion, not my opinion...
I identify as a tall slender female (ha!). Should restaurants have seating which prevents my knees from hitting the underside of a table? Should bar stools always have padding since I don't have much of my own? Should the distance between chairs be closer so I can be a comfortable distance to the others in my party?
I identify as a lefted handed person (ha!). Should we switch the orientation of place settings, water glass and silverware? Should the TP be on the other side of the stall? Should door handles be changed to the other side?
What about if I identify as a great tipper, a horrible tipper, a fast eater, a slow eater, a yeller, a rude patron, a very short person, a drunk, allergic to 10000 things, a (insert anything here)... Should I be accommodated?
Just some thoughts to ponder...
As a left-handed person myself, it's relatively easy to grab my glass and move it to a spot that works better for me. It's completely different than not having a seat that will fit.
I'm not yet convinced that obesity should be treated like a disability, but I also don't think we should be unnecessarily flippant about it.
Nobody cares if I move my place setting, while I've seen larger people stared at while they try to fit into a booth.32 -
funjen1972 wrote: »Just throwing this out for considerstion, not my opinion...
I identify as a tall slender female (ha!). Should restaurants have seating which prevents my knees from hitting the underside of a table? Should bar stools always have padding since I don't have much of my own? Should the distance between chairs be closer so I can be a comfortable distance to the others in my party?
I identify as a lefted handed person (ha!). Should we switch the orientation of place settings, water glass and silverware? Should the TP be on the other side of the stall? Should door handles be changed to the other side?
What about if I identify as a great tipper, a horrible tipper, a fast eater, a slow eater, a yeller, a rude patron, a very short person, a drunk, allergic to 10000 things, a (insert anything here)... Should I be accommodated?
Just some thoughts to ponder...
I'm going to go out on a wild limb and say as a tall slender female, the world in general is probably designed to cater to you more than an obese person.
For a weight loss site, there's an interesting amount of casual anti-fat bias on here sometimes.45 -
I've been on both sides. I was a size 26 (313 lbs), now am a size 2 (142 lbs).... at 313 I couldn't fit into regular booths, and always asked for a table. now at 142, the booths I could fit in at 313, are uncomfortable for me now, as I am SO FAR AWAY from the table.12
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Samquentin wrote: »I've been on both sides. I was a size 26 (313 lbs), now am a size 2 (142 lbs).... at 313 I couldn't fit into regular booths, and always asked for a table. now at 142, the booths I could fit in at 313, are uncomfortable for me now, as I am SO FAR AWAY from the table.
This is what I was alluding to! There is a local restaurant with huge booths that I'd think an obese person would feel comfortable in, but me and my mom have to scooch all the way up to the front of the bench and our feet dangle. If we sit back, we can't reach our plate. We usually hope there is room at the bar because it's kind of uncomfortable in the booths. 18 -
Though costly it might be to a restaurants advantage to modify their seating. Just take a look at statistics...there are far more people that are overweight and obese than there are "normal" weight...whatever normal is?0
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For some reason the link didn't work for me ; I haven't read the article so apologies if I'm speaking out of turn
I've never been overweight so have no personal experience but, my best and oldest friend is very overweight /obese and I know this is an issue for her. Mainly, I think, because she's embarrassed about her weight and hates the thought that other people might be put out or inconvenienced by it. When we eat out, I usually book a table and make specific requests so that she'll have enough room to be comfortable. I don't see a problem with restaurants accommodating people's different needs - I have an arthritic hip and therefore prefer a table on the ground floor. I don't see that this is any different to that or, say, people who want extra space for a push chair or wheel chair.
The issue of my friend's weight and what she should or shouldn't be doing about it is a separate issue. She's not in denial - she knows only too well of the health risks and impact on her mobility.4
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