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What new or revised public policy/law would make it easier for people to maintain a healthy weight?
Replies
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anthocyanina wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »And look at it this way...there are already plenty of restaurants with stated calorie counts and pretty much everything you buy at the store requires a nutritional label...has it done anything to curb obesity? Nope.
How do you know the answer is no? You asked a factual question about hundreds of millions of people and then assumed the answer. I've for sure been making better choices since this information has been available to me.
You said people should take personal responsibility but doing so requires information. People should be making better, informed choices.
One legislative change I would like to see is harsher penalties for drivers who negligently injure cyclists and pedestrians. And more priority and resources to pursue these types of cases.
Because the obesity epidemic continues to rise...that would indicate that it's not doing anything to curb obesity.
As I stated in the previous paragraph, it only really matters to people who are calorie aware which is a huge minority of people...you would be in the minority along with pretty much everyone else on MFP.
As far as personal responsibility goes, people know what is *kitten* and what isn't and deep down, people know what they should be eating from a nutritional standpoint...they just don't do it. I think most people know and understand that an apple is going to provide them with more nutrition...vitamins...minerals, etc than a candy bar...but they choose the candy bar anyway. You don't need to know a damn thing about calories to understand that eating a diet consisting largely of fast food and junk food isn't a good thing.
Reality Check:
I live within walking distance of 3 well-stocked grocery stores and 1 weekly (year-round) farmers' market. I have a car and access to countless other supermarkets from discount to luxury, and more farmers' markets/local produce stands within a 15-minute drive. Competition is high and I have my pick of gorgeous produce and other healthful foods that stores place on loss-leader sales to get people in the door. I can buy whole grain bread, tortillas, and tofu still warm from being made today and produce picked this morning. It's easy for me to feed my family healthfully on a budget.
There are few if any grocery stores and farmers' markets in many low-income neighborhoods. Public transport in the U.S. is not optimized like in many other countries. Thus people are forced to depend on what is available to them: convenience stores, fast food, and places like Dollar General. Many work long hours and don't have the time to cook balanced meals from scratch every night. Just because people are eating foods you deem unhealthful doesn't mean that is the way they would choose to eat if better food was easily accessible.
Another reality check...
I live in an urban suburban area that has no shortage of quality food supply. Do you know what most people at my office eat most of the time? Not the high quality food supply. Yes, there are food deserts, but obesity is rampant in my office and in my city in general where there is plenty in the way of quality food supply.
You are kidding yourself if you think the vast majority of people aren't making purposeful choices to eat the way they eat. I also don't tend to think in terms of this food or that food is unhealthful...I eat pizza...I eat candy bars, etc...but my overall diet is healthful. Most people I'm around everyday do not eat anything resembling an overall healthful diet, they don't exercise, and they are obese. There are only a handful of people at my office who aren't overweight or obese...most being the latter.
I also travel pretty extensively and not to food desert areas...and there's a tremendous amount of obesity in areas where there is plenty in the way of quality food supply. If this was the driving issue, I'd expect obesity to be largely limited to the poor and people living in the food deserts...but it's not.23 -
I responsibly ordered the healthy heart steak and veggies at a local hole in the wall because the menu stated it was "only" 1150 calories. The blasted steak was maybe 4oz, the salad was rather anemic...where was the 1150 coming from? Had to be oils/butters/dressings etc.cmriverside wrote: »I think we have enough laws already.
People just need to take some personal responsibility. Anyone who's made it past fourth grade should be able to figure this out.
Eat less. Take a walk. Ta Da.
My point is, if that had not been labeled on the menu I would never have guessed more than 700 at absolute most just by looking at it. I'm pretty responsible, but guesstimating calories..well...we all know how that can work out.
Unless you're eating at that local hole every day, one dining experience isn't going to make or break your meal planning.
And if you ARE eating at that local hole every day, is it 1150 or 1150 +/- 200 depending on who's cooking today? Do you really think that meal prep is standardized enough that any calorie count listed would be meaningful?5 -
anthocyanina wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »And look at it this way...there are already plenty of restaurants with stated calorie counts and pretty much everything you buy at the store requires a nutritional label...has it done anything to curb obesity? Nope.
How do you know the answer is no? You asked a factual question about hundreds of millions of people and then assumed the answer. I've for sure been making better choices since this information has been available to me.
You said people should take personal responsibility but doing so requires information. People should be making better, informed choices.
One legislative change I would like to see is harsher penalties for drivers who negligently injure cyclists and pedestrians. And more priority and resources to pursue these types of cases.
Because the obesity epidemic continues to rise...that would indicate that it's not doing anything to curb obesity.
As I stated in the previous paragraph, it only really matters to people who are calorie aware which is a huge minority of people...you would be in the minority along with pretty much everyone else on MFP.
As far as personal responsibility goes, people know what is *kitten* and what isn't and deep down, people know what they should be eating from a nutritional standpoint...they just don't do it. I think most people know and understand that an apple is going to provide them with more nutrition...vitamins...minerals, etc than a candy bar...but they choose the candy bar anyway. You don't need to know a damn thing about calories to understand that eating a diet consisting largely of fast food and junk food isn't a good thing.
Reality Check:
I live within walking distance of 3 well-stocked grocery stores and 1 weekly (year-round) farmers' market. I have a car and access to countless other supermarkets from discount to luxury, and more farmers' markets/local produce stands within a 15-minute drive. Competition is high and I have my pick of gorgeous produce and other healthful foods that stores place on loss-leader sales to get people in the door. I can buy whole grain bread, tortillas, and tofu still warm from being made today and produce picked this morning. It's easy for me to feed my family healthfully on a budget.
There are few if any grocery stores and farmers' markets in many low-income neighborhoods. Public transport in the U.S. is not optimized like in many other countries. Thus people are forced to depend on what is available to them: convenience stores, fast food, and places like Dollar General. Many work long hours and don't have the time to cook balanced meals from scratch every night. Just because people are eating foods you deem unhealthful doesn't mean that is the way they would choose to eat if better food was easily accessible.
But you don't have to eat "health food" to be a healthy weight. You can make better choices at fast food places, dollar stores, and the frozen food section. It's cheaper to drink water out of the tap than buy soda. It's cheaper to eat canned beans and minute rice than to go to McDs. It's a case of putting some thought into it. I have weeks where 90% of my diet is oatmeal, fast food, Lean Cuisines, ramen, and $0.99 bags of frozen veg, I can still hit my calorie goal and macros. And sometimes my only exercise is marching and jogging on the living room floor in front of my TV. It's not optimal, but it works.
This is just my opinion, but I think correcting the myth that eating well is expensive and requires lots of cooking time would help. Too many people don't even try because they think they are too busy or can't afford it. That's not to say there aren't people who are literally depending on the kindness of strangers or living where they have little or no choice, but the vast majority of people could maintain a healthy weight while eating what some people would consider "junk". Yes, there would still be a portion of the population who may very well be obese because of their limited options, who live in unsafe communities where they can't take a walk around the block, but it would not be an epidemic.
I guess this opinion may be unpopular, but I believe we have an obesity epidemic because too large a majority of people would rather believe its impossible to be healthy than actually take the time to figure it out. My heart goes out to the people who legit are trapped in their situation, but they aren't the epidemic.15 -
xCopper_Boom wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »Copper_Boom wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »Putting aside for one minute that people need to take more responsibility for themselves, mandating that food suppliers, restaurants, etc have to provide nutritional information would be the one thing I'd like to see.
That's already required for the most part. It would be very burdensome for mom and pop establishments though and many of them would likely go out of business.
Just curious- why would this be especially burdensome for Mom and Pop restaurants and put many of them out of business? They’re allowed to use the database method. It doesn’t have to be any harder than it is for us to fill out a recipe in MFP. It might actually help them to more accurately calculate the cost to make a portion when they look at the amount of each ingredient.
For one thing, if actual legislation was enacted, I would have serious doubts as to them being allowed to use the data base method as that would be pretty loosey goosey for actual legislation. And really, what's the point of enacting legislation when databases are so full of absolute *kitten* for entries made by other users of the system? How much will they be allowed to be off? Would people even trust the stated calorie counts? I mean people already question the counts of restaurants who's food gets sent to a lab. Do they get fined for using bad entries to create their calorie counts? Do they get away with using entries that are erroneously low to make it appear that their menu is lower calorie? How is the FDA going to verify the calorie counts without that food going to a lab?
Mom and pop restaurants already run on a very thin margin and many, if not most struggle to just stay open. As I stated in an earlier reply, this is extra time spent when owners of these establishments are already burning it at both ends, and time is money. It's irrelevant though because any such legislation would never allow for something so unscientific as using a random database to come up with calorie counts to assure the public of what they're getting. Having food sent to a lab is expensive and would put many of these places under.
Beyond that, mom and pop restaurants are a pretty small % of the restaurant world and the overall food supply. I seriously don't think mom and pop restaurants are contributing substantially to the obesity epidemic. If you looked at it on a pie chart, mom and pop restaurants would be a tiny sliver of the overall food supply...why burden something so small with more bureaucracy? They already have to deal with a *kitten* ton of it already. The government doesn't typically enact legislation that makes things easier...
I'm not sure where you are located, but this is already required in the U.S. for restaurants with 20 or more locations. The FDA website does state that they can comply using nutrient databases (USDA, cookbooks, etc.). No requirement to send food to a lab.
Seemed pretty clear he was talking about "mom and pop" restaurants, which do not have 20 or more locations.7 -
anthocyanina wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »And look at it this way...there are already plenty of restaurants with stated calorie counts and pretty much everything you buy at the store requires a nutritional label...has it done anything to curb obesity? Nope.
How do you know the answer is no? You asked a factual question about hundreds of millions of people and then assumed the answer. I've for sure been making better choices since this information has been available to me.
You said people should take personal responsibility but doing so requires information. People should be making better, informed choices.
One legislative change I would like to see is harsher penalties for drivers who negligently injure cyclists and pedestrians. And more priority and resources to pursue these types of cases.
Because the obesity epidemic continues to rise...that would indicate that it's not doing anything to curb obesity.
As I stated in the previous paragraph, it only really matters to people who are calorie aware which is a huge minority of people...you would be in the minority along with pretty much everyone else on MFP.
As far as personal responsibility goes, people know what is *kitten* and what isn't and deep down, people know what they should be eating from a nutritional standpoint...they just don't do it. I think most people know and understand that an apple is going to provide them with more nutrition...vitamins...minerals, etc than a candy bar...but they choose the candy bar anyway. You don't need to know a damn thing about calories to understand that eating a diet consisting largely of fast food and junk food isn't a good thing.
Reality Check:
I live within walking distance of 3 well-stocked grocery stores and 1 weekly (year-round) farmers' market. I have a car and access to countless other supermarkets from discount to luxury, and more farmers' markets/local produce stands within a 15-minute drive. Competition is high and I have my pick of gorgeous produce and other healthful foods that stores place on loss-leader sales to get people in the door. I can buy whole grain bread, tortillas, and tofu still warm from being made today and produce picked this morning. It's easy for me to feed my family healthfully on a budget.
There are few if any grocery stores and farmers' markets in many low-income neighborhoods. Public transport in the U.S. is not optimized like in many other countries. Thus people are forced to depend on what is available to them: convenience stores, fast food, and places like Dollar General. Many work long hours and don't have the time to cook balanced meals from scratch every night. Just because people are eating foods you deem unhealthful doesn't mean that is the way they would choose to eat if better food was easily accessible.
The stats in the 2009 report on food deserts says that 2.2% of households in the US live more than 1 mile from a supermarket and do not have access to a vehicle. An additional 3.2% are over 0.5 miles (but less than 1 mile) from a supermarket and do not have access to a vehicle.
In my city, there has been progress in bringing good supermarkets to various lower income areas since '09 (and within the low income areas there's a great farmer's market that takes food stamps and they buy more if used then as part of a program), and also many people without access to vehicles do have access to buses and other public transportation and may even go into areas with supermarkets or through them when commuting to work (I live in an area with supermarkets, but I also go through a variety of other areas when going to work on public transportation).
The point is not that food deserts should not be a concern -- I do think it's important to address a lack of amenities (including supermarkets and access to decent transportation) in certain areas. (It's true that public transportation is more likely to be available in cities as where I live, but in more rural areas people are much less likely to be car-less.) Instead, the point is that the food desert issue is not actually a significant reason why about 2/3s of Americans are overweight or obese.
Also, I would make a huge distinction between the availability of the kind of store that appeals to lots of people who are commonly not low income and a supermarket that has a full selection of produce (including frozen, especially off season) and canned and packaged staples and so on. The latter is important, the former is not so much, and might even be completely useless given higher costs or products that would have less interest and are not necessary for health.6 -
xCopper_Boom wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »Copper_Boom wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »Putting aside for one minute that people need to take more responsibility for themselves, mandating that food suppliers, restaurants, etc have to provide nutritional information would be the one thing I'd like to see.
That's already required for the most part. It would be very burdensome for mom and pop establishments though and many of them would likely go out of business.
Just curious- why would this be especially burdensome for Mom and Pop restaurants and put many of them out of business? They’re allowed to use the database method. It doesn’t have to be any harder than it is for us to fill out a recipe in MFP. It might actually help them to more accurately calculate the cost to make a portion when they look at the amount of each ingredient.
For one thing, if actual legislation was enacted, I would have serious doubts as to them being allowed to use the data base method as that would be pretty loosey goosey for actual legislation. And really, what's the point of enacting legislation when databases are so full of absolute *kitten* for entries made by other users of the system? How much will they be allowed to be off? Would people even trust the stated calorie counts? I mean people already question the counts of restaurants who's food gets sent to a lab. Do they get fined for using bad entries to create their calorie counts? Do they get away with using entries that are erroneously low to make it appear that their menu is lower calorie? How is the FDA going to verify the calorie counts without that food going to a lab?
Mom and pop restaurants already run on a very thin margin and many, if not most struggle to just stay open. As I stated in an earlier reply, this is extra time spent when owners of these establishments are already burning it at both ends, and time is money. It's irrelevant though because any such legislation would never allow for something so unscientific as using a random database to come up with calorie counts to assure the public of what they're getting. Having food sent to a lab is expensive and would put many of these places under.
Beyond that, mom and pop restaurants are a pretty small % of the restaurant world and the overall food supply. I seriously don't think mom and pop restaurants are contributing substantially to the obesity epidemic. If you looked at it on a pie chart, mom and pop restaurants would be a tiny sliver of the overall food supply...why burden something so small with more bureaucracy? They already have to deal with a *kitten* ton of it already. The government doesn't typically enact legislation that makes things easier...
I'm not sure where you are located, but this is already required in the U.S. for restaurants with 20 or more locations. The FDA website does state that they can comply using nutrient databases (USDA, cookbooks, etc.). No requirement to send food to a lab.
Seemed pretty clear he was talking about "mom and pop" restaurants, which do not have 20 or more locations.
Yes... my point was that the FDA doesn't require even the chain restaurants to send the food out for lab testing if they choose to use the nutrient databases, so why would they require it of the mom and pop restaurants.2 -
Stop subsidizing soy and corn agribusiness. In America we eat a lot of cheap *kitten* because, well, it's cheap.
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/25309019 -
Looks like I got my first kitten!5
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debrakgoogins wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »The information on Choose My Plate, if followed is really all that is needed for the vast majority to lose or maintain weight.
https://www.choosemyplate.gov/
You're assuming everyone has access to the materials you refer to or the internet. I can tell you without hesitation that the area my sister lives in WV has no wifi or internet service and the information is not readily available.
11% of the adult US population is offline (probably some by choice). 70% of the population is overweight or obese. Lack of ability to get information from the internet is not a valid reason for most.
You sister can most likely pick this up at a school or library close to her town or by writing in for a copy.
5 -
FireOpalCO wrote: »FireOpalCO wrote: »Single payer healthcare, including nurse visits and dietitians.
32 hour workweek.
Investment in mass transit systems over highways
Longer school day with mandatory % of time in recess/PE/sports
Tax breaks for companies that buy desk bikes/treadmills, provide a cafeteria, or pay for gym memberships or onsite doctor visits, transit cards, bike racks, etc.
Increase the percentage of open space, bike trails, etc. in development codes.
Building codes that require open staircases under a certain story height? (People are more likely to use the stairs if they are big and visible vs. hidden behind a door looking like they're for emergencies only.)
Sure.... Let's just print more money to pay for all of it....
Single Payer Healthcare: It would actually be cheaper to tax employers & individuals to cover single payer healthcare than what is paid for health insurance. Especially for smaller employers (less than 10,000 employees)
Investment in mass transit - Would it take an increase? Probably, but mostly it's redirecting existing funds
Tax breaks - they get breaks for all sorts of stupid stuff, how about stuff that actually benefits their employees
% of open space - money comment makes no sense. This is about building permits and city design. Costs are passed on to the developers. Lots of cities & towns have requirements concerning providing public art, size of area that is public accessible, parking, skyline, green roofs, density, bike trail & waterway rights, etc.
Building Codes - again, money comment makes no sense. The cost would be for the developer and it's a building code change. Those happen all the time. When they change minimum number of parking spaces based on building size formula do you respond"let's just print more money to pay for it all"? It's a similar change.
And developers pass the cost on to property buyers/renters.
Ain't nothing free.9 -
Keto_N_Iron wrote: »Copper_Boom wrote: »Or prevent obesity?
From a maintenance perspective, I wish calorie disclosure would go further. I would like to see mandatory calorie counts for all restaurants and shops selling food items, regardless of number of locations. Not to the extent of sending food to a lab for measurement, but at least calculating calories for all the ingredients and dividing by their serving size.
completely disagree. I think our government and lawmakers have more important things to argue over. People need to step up and take responsibility for themselves.
No law is going to make things easier. Cook your own meals, stop going out to eat, workout.
lol wut
Imagine if people could drive on any side of the road they chose. As a person who lives in a city and has seen gridlock, I have to disagree, plenty of laws are already making things easier, and there's still room for improvement.11 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »And look at it this way...there are already plenty of restaurants with stated calorie counts and pretty much everything you buy at the store requires a nutritional label...has it done anything to curb obesity? Nope.
How do you know the answer is no? You asked a factual question about hundreds of millions of people and then assumed the answer. I've for sure been making better choices since this information has been available to me.
You said people should take personal responsibility but doing so requires information. People should be making better, informed choices.
One legislative change I would like to see is harsher penalties for drivers who negligently injure cyclists and pedestrians. And more priority and resources to pursue these types of cases.
Because the obesity epidemic continues to rise...that would indicate that it's not doing anything to curb obesity.
As I stated in the previous paragraph, it only really matters to people who are calorie aware which is a huge minority of people...you would be in the minority along with pretty much everyone else on MFP.
As far as personal responsibility goes, people know what is *kitten* and what isn't and deep down, people know what they should be eating from a nutritional standpoint...they just don't do it. I think most people know and understand that an apple is going to provide them with more nutrition...vitamins...minerals, etc than a candy bar...but they choose the candy bar anyway. You don't need to know a damn thing about calories to understand that eating a diet consisting largely of fast food and junk food isn't a good thing.
No it doesn't. Maybe these efforts are making an important difference, and without them the obesity rate would be going up much faster.
It's like saying seatbelts do nothing for car safety because people are still getting into accidents.17 -
Calorie disclosure is good.
I'd like to see subsidies applied to whole foods. Cheaper vegetables, fruit, nuts, meat, seafood, eggs and dairy. Make it more cost effective for people to cook their own food. I think that would improve many peoples diets. Jmo9 -
kilobykilo wrote: »New to this and absolutely agree. I've just eaten sushi for lunch from the counter of my local supermarket.... No nutritional info attached. So, now I've guessed but would like to plan the calories in my dinner according to more than a guess!
last time i had supermarket sushi, i got so sick😰1 -
debrakgoogins wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »The information on Choose My Plate, if followed is really all that is needed for the vast majority to lose or maintain weight.
https://www.choosemyplate.gov/
You're assuming everyone has access to the materials you refer to or the internet. I can tell you without hesitation that the area my sister lives in WV has no wifi or internet service and the information is not readily available.
Yeah...Suddenlink will only run cables so far off the main line. Tell your sister to check for broadband with Frontier. They'll string lines through trees if they have to... Cell service is a bit spotty in the state, but you can get free internet anywhere from Dairy Queen to Walmart and McDonalds... Information is anywhere, if you're willing to look for it..5 -
Stop subsidizing soy and corn agribusiness. In America we eat a lot of cheap *kitten* because, well, it's cheap.
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2530901
QFT. Corn, in particular, has no need for subsidies. On the flip side, fruit and vegetables aren't eligible for subsidies.3 -
FireOpalCO wrote: »Single payer healthcare, including nurse visits and dietitians.
32 hour workweek.
Investment in mass transit systems over highways
Longer school day with mandatory % of time in recess/PE/sports
Tax breaks for companies that buy desk bikes/treadmills, provide a cafeteria, or pay for gym memberships or onsite doctor visits, transit cards, bike racks, etc.
Increase the percentage of open space, bike trails, etc. in development codes.
Building codes that require open staircases under a certain story height? (People are more likely to use the stairs if they are big and visible vs. hidden behind a door looking like they're for emergencies only.)
To add to this (because it's more or less what I was thinking), better bike infrastructure (this, for me, goes beyond "bike trails") and an overhaul on school lunch programs.10 -
Some of you pointed out that there are many more people with access to good food who choose to eat junk than people without access, and you are absolutely right.
However I would still start with food justice for all before targeting fast-food eating, sedentary office workers.
One interesting approach is employer-driven programs. Both employer and employees benefit when workers are given the opportunity to become healthier.
One place I worked at offered extra-long breaks to employees who went outside to take a walk at break time, distributed maps with 1/4 and 1/2 mile walking loops in the neighborhood, and tallied the office's progress "across the country". I gave a series of mini cooking demos/nutrition classes to my co-workers there as well.
Another place stocked the breakroom with healthful snacks and periodically brought in local farmers for a mini farmers' market onsite to help reduce the effort it took for employees who work long hours to access healthful food.
Still another offered a significant discount on employee contributions to health insurance for those who complete regular wellness checks and provided programs free of charge to help employees whose wellness checks show problem areas get back on track health-wise.
You can probably guess that there were still some people unwilling to take the small steps toward better health that their employers laid out, but there were also those who appreciated and took advantage of the chances they were offered, and others still who were inspired by the opportunities and went on to do even more for themselves.14 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »And look at it this way...there are already plenty of restaurants with stated calorie counts and pretty much everything you buy at the store requires a nutritional label...has it done anything to curb obesity? Nope.
How do you know the answer is no? You asked a factual question about hundreds of millions of people and then assumed the answer. I've for sure been making better choices since this information has been available to me.
You said people should take personal responsibility but doing so requires information. People should be making better, informed choices.
One legislative change I would like to see is harsher penalties for drivers who negligently injure cyclists and pedestrians. And more priority and resources to pursue these types of cases.
Because the obesity epidemic continues to rise...that would indicate that it's not doing anything to curb obesity.
This is essentially confusing correlation with causation ... or lack of correlation with lack of causation. If you don't control for other factors relating to obesity (e.g., average hours spent in sedentary occupations, sedentary commuting, sedentary entertainment, etc.), you can't really know whether or not providing calorie information is curbing obesity or not. It could be that absent the greater availability of calorie information, other factors (such as falling average levels of activity) would be causing the obesity level to climb even faster.9 -
Seriously?
Get gov't out of the nutrition business.
Gov't has been funding and pushing fraudulent messages for decades, starting with the food pyramid.
Gov't only funds outcomes. They wanted an outcome that would support a push to consume more newly subsidized grains.
Anyone who thinks that gov't action is ever taken other than for the purpose of growing gov't hasn't been paying attention.
If gov't subsides, in any way, gym memberships, the cost of compliance on the part of gyms will substantially raise the cost of a gym membership.
Even making gym memberships tax deductible will raise the cost if gym membership because gyms will have comply with new reporting requirements. That cost must be passed on to the customer as increased gym membership costs.15
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