I already prefer to buy some things organic (out of an excess of caution about hormones in animal protein, and how those affect or don't affect metastatic recurrence of the hormone-fed type of cancer I had - neither I nor the cancer center RD could find helpful research about this, at the time).
Also, I think organic cabbage tastes better, bizarrely (most other things I don't notice a difference). Some of the general produce I buy is organic because I like shopping the local farmers' markets (higher quality, fresher) and it happens to be organic. Because I'm vegetarian, I do some shopping at a local health-food-ish store and a tiny bit at Whole Foods for specialty and bulk products, so I will buy some things on the same trip that are organic because that's what's there (gas for driving around would outweigh the minor food cost difference).
As a single person who's also vegetarian and retired, I cook most of my own food from scratch, and (although very far from wealthy), I feel very, very fortunate not to have to worry about food costs super much already, because my preferences are fairly affordable. If I were wealthy, I'd probably buy more boats and a fancy banjo, maybe eat out more, but I don't think my grocery shopping would change much. Well, maybe Humboldt Fog more often, and in bigger chunks.
ETA: I avoid buying organic broccoli because of an irrational dislike of flea beetles.
This is just my opinion. So, take it for what it's worth. I worked as Chef for many years before my retirement and worked with many producers, organic and not in my buying. The whole thing of pesticide residue is an issue. Glyphosphate (roundup) is toxic and conventional farmers use it all the time.
The last restaurant I ran was part of a small regional organic and natural foods chain that focused on utilizing local suppliers within a 150 mile radius. While some of the products we used were certified organic, some were from small farms that produced to organic standards but were too small to afford the expensive certification process. Our buying group would vet the sources.
We just don't know the long term impacts of the widespread pesticide and chemical fertilizers that are used in conventional farming. For me, I will make the choice to buy local and organic whenever I can and I don't see it as a financial choice. It's just my choice and I pay whatever that choice costs. For produce, is can be anywhere from a 10% to a 50% premium.
The higher cost items are typically the organically raised meats. I bought a beef share from a local farmer and it was a great deal. Not only was this farmer a friend but I knew his Angus cows too. I know where and how there were raised. In a market, people would have to pay 2x what I paid. Those deals are out there if you have time to find them.
Hormone free chicken is also important to me. And that is about 30% more expensive than conventional. I'm fine with that.
Maybe there is not a risk to conventionally raised and maybe there is. I can't say for sure. I am doing it the way I feel most comfortable after years in the foodservice industry. YMMV
Probably would buy organic, and spend the money if I had it, if I could be 100% sure it was organic. Problem is, organic vs conventional farming can overlap. Chemicals seep into water supplies used by both. Air contaminates rain down on both. Serious question. How can you be absolutely sure organic is safer? They are certified, but how can you be sure nothing from runoff gets into water supplies used by organic farming methods.
If money was no issue, I'd probably have a personal chef do my cooking and shopping anyhow, and probably get more food at Farmers Markets. Otherwise nah, if organic is the same price as non, I'll get it, otherwise not wirried about it. And GMO doesn't bother me at all. In fact, often I just think it's really cool that they exist, because genetic science is fascinating and cool to me.
This is just my opinion. So, take it for what it's worth. I worked as Chef for many years before my retirement and worked with many producers, organic and not in my buying. The whole thing of pesticide residue is an issue. Glyphosphate (roundup) is toxic and conventional farmers use it all the time.
The last restaurant I ran was part of a small regional organic and natural foods chain that focused on utilizing local suppliers within a 150 mile radius. While some of the products we used were certified organic, some were from small farms that produced to organic standards but were too small to afford the expensive certification process. Our buying group would vet the sources.
We just don't know the long term impacts of the widespread pesticide and chemical fertilizers that are used in conventional farming. For me, I will make the choice to buy local and organic whenever I can and I don't see it as a financial choice. It's just my choice and I pay whatever that choice costs. For produce, is can be anywhere from a 10% to a 50% premium.
The higher cost items are typically the organically raised meats. I bought a beef share from a local farmer and it was a great deal. Not only was this farmer a friend but I knew his Angus cows too. I know where and how there were raised. In a market, people would have to pay 2x what I paid. Those deals are out there if you have time to find them.
Hormone free chicken is also important to me. And that is about 30% more expensive than conventional. I'm fine with that.
Maybe there is not a risk to conventionally raised and maybe there is. I can't say for sure. I am doing it the way I feel most comfortable after years in the foodservice industry. YMMV
I work at a food co-op, and have the same concerns with potential long term effects. I also recognize how blessed I am to have access to local and organic food.
However, I live on a limited budget, but have food restrictions and need to eat more due to malabsorption. So I have to be smart about what I buy. Which means leaning more towards local, in season, Dirty Dozen/Clean 15 list, organ meats, and sales sales sales!
I suppose if money wasn't an issue, I would buy more expensive cuts of meat like steaks. But that would still be a treat as I would rather save my money on fun trips
i wouldn't buy organic. i would buy local more. my meats happy. my ex's family had a dairy farm. they weren't organic and the cows didn't just eat grass but they seemed to be pretty content. i'd like to be able to support places like them
If money was no object I would buy heirloom variety, non-GMO, organic and as locally sourced as possible... or have it flown in from Europe if unavailable in North America. Oh, or have people grow it for me in my own greenhouses and cattle ranches....
I go to Whole Foods here in Mississauga for meat only. No other market around has better quality meat. None. Its the only thing I buy there unless I see something on a crazy good sale because of prices. As I walk around I see ppls carts and at checkout spending 100s of $$$ for what could be had for half at local grocery store. Im pretty sure people are willing to spend their money there on everything because of labels such as organic, healthy etc.
My question is.... if money was no issue for you, would you be buying organic, grass fed, pastured etc.? Or would you still stick to what you buy now. I will be honest, I dont know and I only shop for myself.
we only purchase grass-fed (and grass-finished) beef & wild caught salmon.
organic fruits and veggies ?
the rule for me is: thick skinned (avocado, banana, oranges etc.) are just regular produce. thin skinned (grapes, apples, leafy greens) should be organic.
I don't spend money of alcohol, drugs, tobacco or junk food... there's enough coin left over to purchase quality food.
What I get from this thread is that if money wasnt an issue most people WOULD buy organic. Which to be honest surprised me because in any other thread of conventional vs organic, organic gets trashed to *kitten*.
If money was no object, I would take advantage of farm shares for beef, chicken, pork, and vegetables. It wouldn't have to be organic, but I would prefer grass fed beef just because I like the taste better. Oh, and I would also own two mini Scottish Highland Cows to keep my Golden Retriever company.
I go to Whole Foods here in Mississauga for meat only. No other market around has better quality meat. None. Its the only thing I buy there unless I see something on a crazy good sale because of prices. As I walk around I see ppls carts and at checkout spending 100s of $$$ for what could be had for half at local grocery store. Im pretty sure people are willing to spend their money there on everything because of labels such as organic, healthy etc.
My question is.... if money was no issue for you, would you be buying organic, grass fed, pastured etc.? Or would you still stick to what you buy now. I will be honest, I dont know and I only shop for myself.
Take money off the table, and absolutely.
I believe we vote with our dollars. Roundup/glyphosate (the major commercial pesticide/weed killer) is some pretty brutal stuff with a host of negative effects. Same for the antibiotics fed factory-farmed animals and getting into our water and soil.
Factory farming is also just pretty disrespectful to animals. I like animals, and also eat meat. Humane farming practices that support regenerative biological processes are something I want to stand behind.
I do my best to juggle ethics vs budget.
As it stands, I mostly avoid the Dirty Dozen - it’s hard, as apples and peaches are among my favorite things ever and I’m not super financially secure at the moment.
Small-farm, locally grown, organic tends to taste better IMO. Picked ripe and not shipped in from god-knows-where.
Grass fed meats also taste more vital to me. They tend to be less fatty and somehow deeper in taste.
I avoid stuff with any labels on it- health claims are usually a marketing ploy. I buy bulk whenever feasible, or paper-wrapped from the butcher. I’m waiting for them to sticker my apples with ‘gluten free!! Low fat!! Paleo-friendly!’ Because marketing.
That said, as someone who also loves to know what’s happening in food and to experiment, I do buy ‘organic paleo blablabla’ flour mixes, etc occasionally.
Absolutism has never served me well when it comes to food, but that’s just me.
As an aside, I grew up on an organic farm, and have a deep appreciation for animal husbandry, and sustainable and respectful practices around growing foodstuffs. It takes a lot more effort to avoid the ‘cheap quick and dirty’ easy options like spraying weed killer on everything.
I go to Whole Foods here in Mississauga for meat only. No other market around has better quality meat. None. Its the only thing I buy there unless I see something on a crazy good sale because of prices. As I walk around I see ppls carts and at checkout spending 100s of $$$ for what could be had for half at local grocery store. Im pretty sure people are willing to spend their money there on everything because of labels such as organic, healthy etc.
My question is.... if money was no issue for you, would you be buying organic, grass fed, pastured etc.? Or would you still stick to what you buy now. I will be honest, I dont know and I only shop for myself.
Take money off the table, and absolutely.
I believe we vote with our dollars. Roundup/glyphosate (the major commercial pesticide/weed killer) is some pretty brutal stuff with a host of negative effects. Same for the antibiotics fed factory-farmed animals and getting into our water and soil.
Factory farming is also just pretty disrespectful to animals. I like animals, and also eat meat. Humane farming practices that support regenerative biological processes are something I want to stand behind.
I do my best to juggle ethics vs budget.
As it stands, I mostly avoid the Dirty Dozen - it’s hard, as apples and peaches are among my favorite things ever and I’m not super financially secure at the moment.
Small-farm, locally grown, organic tends to taste better IMO. Picked ripe and not shipped in from god-knows-where.
Grass fed meats also taste more vital to me. They tend to be less fatty and somehow deeper in taste.
I avoid stuff with any labels on it- health claims are usually a marketing ploy. I buy bulk whenever feasible, or paper-wrapped from the butcher. I’m waiting for them to sticker my apples with ‘gluten free!! Low fat!! Paleo-friendly!’ Because marketing.
That said, as someone who also loves to know what’s happening in food and to experiment, I do buy ‘organic paleo blablabla’ flour mixes, etc occasionally.
Absolutism has never served me well when it comes to food, but that’s just me.
As an aside, I grew up on an organic farm, and have a deep appreciation for animal husbandry, and sustainable and respectful practices around growing foodstuffs. It takes a lot more effort to avoid the ‘cheap quick and dirty’ easy options like spraying weed killer on everything.
Everything has consequences. It’s one big system.
Please understand that just because something is labelled as toxic, does not mean unsafe for use. Toxicity has to do with minimum dosages for the organism either being exposed to or ingesting said product. Everything is toxic in a high enough dose. Salt, potassium, sugar, vitamin D are all examples of substances that in controlled amounts, are perfectly safe(helpful even), but when too much is taken, can cause serious issues and even death. Look up suicide by soy sauce. It's a thing. Even someone drinking water too fast can die.
The important thing to look at is the amount being ingested and whether it is safe. There is a reason they introduced maximum reside limits on crops. When ingesting food grown with roundup, there could be molecules of it on the food, and rinsing your food has shown to reduce that dramatically. However the amount present on food is so minuscule that it really has no effect. Roundup is one of the greatest tools modern agriculture has known and can be essential for growing enough food to feed future populations. To get rid of it because of fears with no substantiated evidence, is very short sighted and a real shame.
And to claim that roundup is "pretty brutal stuff" is another claim that is made without warrant. There are chemicals out there that are way more harsh than roundup, and if roundup is banned, guess what that may force people to use... roundup has a lower ld50 than apple cider vinegar...
For all the fear of Glyphosate, it is one of the more safe and effective herbicides available, with a lower toxicity than many other compounds we eat and lower environmental impact. Most of the issues with it have to do with the business practices of the company it's most associate with, although it's been off patent for a long time at this point, and the over reliance on it leading to resistance by weeds.
Glyphosate breaks downs pretty readily in the environment and has low toxicity compared to other herbicides. Organic farming methods still use pesticides, and just because they are naturally derived does not make them any less toxic.
What I get from this thread is that if money wasnt an issue most people WOULD buy organic. Which to be honest surprised me because in any other thread of conventional vs organic, organic gets trashed to *kitten*.
I will stand up and say, I will buy whatever is most tasty and local to me. Organic produced shipped in from halfway across the world probably isn't doing the planet any more of a favor than locally produced standard produce. When both organic and regular blueberries were the same price, I bought whichever looked in the best shape. I am fortunate enough to be in a financial position where I can make the choice to buy organic if I wanted, and I almost exclusively do not.
I'm far from rich but I sacrifice so that I can buy organic or grass fed chicken, wild caught salmon & organic veggies and produce not on this dirty dozen list. I don't spend the extra money on items that are not on the dirty list.
What I get from this thread is that if money wasnt an issue most people WOULD buy organic. Which to be honest surprised me because in any other thread of conventional vs organic, organic gets trashed to *kitten*.
I'm getting the opposite view actually. I went back and counted (yay having too much time on my hands during spring break!) and 7 people said they'd buy more things locally (regardless of whether or not they were organic). One person said they'd buy more things that are organic, a few people said they already prefered to do that, and a few were neither here nor there.
Replies
Also, I think organic cabbage tastes better, bizarrely (most other things I don't notice a difference). Some of the general produce I buy is organic because I like shopping the local farmers' markets (higher quality, fresher) and it happens to be organic. Because I'm vegetarian, I do some shopping at a local health-food-ish store and a tiny bit at Whole Foods for specialty and bulk products, so I will buy some things on the same trip that are organic because that's what's there (gas for driving around would outweigh the minor food cost difference).
As a single person who's also vegetarian and retired, I cook most of my own food from scratch, and (although very far from wealthy), I feel very, very fortunate not to have to worry about food costs super much already, because my preferences are fairly affordable. If I were wealthy, I'd probably buy more boats and a fancy banjo, maybe eat out more, but I don't think my grocery shopping would change much. Well, maybe Humboldt Fog more often, and in bigger chunks.
ETA: I avoid buying organic broccoli because of an irrational dislike of flea beetles.
The last restaurant I ran was part of a small regional organic and natural foods chain that focused on utilizing local suppliers within a 150 mile radius. While some of the products we used were certified organic, some were from small farms that produced to organic standards but were too small to afford the expensive certification process. Our buying group would vet the sources.
We just don't know the long term impacts of the widespread pesticide and chemical fertilizers that are used in conventional farming. For me, I will make the choice to buy local and organic whenever I can and I don't see it as a financial choice. It's just my choice and I pay whatever that choice costs. For produce, is can be anywhere from a 10% to a 50% premium.
The higher cost items are typically the organically raised meats. I bought a beef share from a local farmer and it was a great deal. Not only was this farmer a friend but I knew his Angus cows too. I know where and how there were raised. In a market, people would have to pay 2x what I paid. Those deals are out there if you have time to find them.
Hormone free chicken is also important to me. And that is about 30% more expensive than conventional. I'm fine with that.
Maybe there is not a risk to conventionally raised and maybe there is. I can't say for sure. I am doing it the way I feel most comfortable after years in the foodservice industry. YMMV
Nothing can compare to this reigning champion of ugly wedding gowns!
Although I'm not sure how organic it is
I work at a food co-op, and have the same concerns with potential long term effects. I also recognize how blessed I am to have access to local and organic food.
However, I live on a limited budget, but have food restrictions and need to eat more due to malabsorption. So I have to be smart about what I buy. Which means leaning more towards local, in season, Dirty Dozen/Clean 15 list, organ meats, and sales sales sales!
I suppose if money wasn't an issue, I would buy more expensive cuts of meat like steaks. But that would still be a treat as I would rather save my money on fun trips
Also all of the cheese. There would never be a shredded pack of cheese in my house again.
If money was no object I would buy heirloom variety, non-GMO, organic and as locally sourced as possible... or have it flown in from Europe if unavailable in North America. Oh, or have people grow it for me in my own greenhouses and cattle ranches....
we only purchase grass-fed (and grass-finished) beef & wild caught salmon.
organic fruits and veggies ?
the rule for me is: thick skinned (avocado, banana, oranges etc.) are just regular produce. thin skinned (grapes, apples, leafy greens) should be organic.
I don't spend money of alcohol, drugs, tobacco or junk food... there's enough coin left over to purchase quality food.
Take money off the table, and absolutely.
I believe we vote with our dollars. Roundup/glyphosate (the major commercial pesticide/weed killer) is some pretty brutal stuff with a host of negative effects. Same for the antibiotics fed factory-farmed animals and getting into our water and soil.
Factory farming is also just pretty disrespectful to animals. I like animals, and also eat meat. Humane farming practices that support regenerative biological processes are something I want to stand behind.
I do my best to juggle ethics vs budget.
As it stands, I mostly avoid the Dirty Dozen - it’s hard, as apples and peaches are among my favorite things ever and I’m not super financially secure at the moment.
Small-farm, locally grown, organic tends to taste better IMO. Picked ripe and not shipped in from god-knows-where.
Grass fed meats also taste more vital to me. They tend to be less fatty and somehow deeper in taste.
I avoid stuff with any labels on it- health claims are usually a marketing ploy. I buy bulk whenever feasible, or paper-wrapped from the butcher. I’m waiting for them to sticker my apples with ‘gluten free!! Low fat!! Paleo-friendly!’ Because marketing.
That said, as someone who also loves to know what’s happening in food and to experiment, I do buy ‘organic paleo blablabla’ flour mixes, etc occasionally.
Absolutism has never served me well when it comes to food, but that’s just me.
As an aside, I grew up on an organic farm, and have a deep appreciation for animal husbandry, and sustainable and respectful practices around growing foodstuffs. It takes a lot more effort to avoid the ‘cheap quick and dirty’ easy options like spraying weed killer on everything.
Everything has consequences. It’s one big system.
Please understand that just because something is labelled as toxic, does not mean unsafe for use. Toxicity has to do with minimum dosages for the organism either being exposed to or ingesting said product. Everything is toxic in a high enough dose. Salt, potassium, sugar, vitamin D are all examples of substances that in controlled amounts, are perfectly safe(helpful even), but when too much is taken, can cause serious issues and even death. Look up suicide by soy sauce. It's a thing. Even someone drinking water too fast can die.
The important thing to look at is the amount being ingested and whether it is safe. There is a reason they introduced maximum reside limits on crops. When ingesting food grown with roundup, there could be molecules of it on the food, and rinsing your food has shown to reduce that dramatically. However the amount present on food is so minuscule that it really has no effect. Roundup is one of the greatest tools modern agriculture has known and can be essential for growing enough food to feed future populations. To get rid of it because of fears with no substantiated evidence, is very short sighted and a real shame.
And to claim that roundup is "pretty brutal stuff" is another claim that is made without warrant. There are chemicals out there that are way more harsh than roundup, and if roundup is banned, guess what that may force people to use... roundup has a lower ld50 than apple cider vinegar...
Picture of interest
Glyphosate breaks downs pretty readily in the environment and has low toxicity compared to other herbicides. Organic farming methods still use pesticides, and just because they are naturally derived does not make them any less toxic.
http://pmep.cce.cornell.edu/profiles/extoxnet/dienochlor-glyphosate/glyphosate-ext.html
https://www.cdpr.ca.gov/docs/emon/pubs/fatememo/glyphos.pdf
I will stand up and say, I will buy whatever is most tasty and local to me. Organic produced shipped in from halfway across the world probably isn't doing the planet any more of a favor than locally produced standard produce. When both organic and regular blueberries were the same price, I bought whichever looked in the best shape. I am fortunate enough to be in a financial position where I can make the choice to buy organic if I wanted, and I almost exclusively do not.
I'm getting the opposite view actually. I went back and counted (yay having too much time on my hands during spring break!) and 7 people said they'd buy more things locally (regardless of whether or not they were organic). One person said they'd buy more things that are organic, a few people said they already prefered to do that, and a few were neither here nor there.