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The sugar problem
Replies
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Lessee, hmm. Lost around 50 pounds eating 70-90g sugars most days; maintaining a healthy weight for 3 years since, eating 80-100g sugars most days.
Imma say "no" to your thesis. I don't know what laws of physics apply in your world, but sugar isn't all that special in mine.12 -
lolno2
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For those of us who have an insulin resistance problem, even in the absence of diabetes CURRENTLY, we DO have to watch our sugar, fructose, and artificial sweeteners. I try to keep mine under 12-15 g a day for ALL sweeteners and sugars that occur naturally.
I am very excited to know that there are people out there that do NOT have this problem, and am happy to hear of all of your success stories. I wish I was like you.
Unfortunately, I am not.
For either side to to blanket say, "everyone must avoid sugar" or "sugar isn't a problem, only calories count", each is a very blinded view. There are people who shouldn't eat much sugar at all, and there are others that have no issue with eating as much as they want. We are all individuals, and must tailor our way of eating to reflect our individual health requirements.12 -
VictoryGarden wrote: »For those of us who have an insulin resistance problem, even in the absence of diabetes CURRENTLY, we DO have to watch our sugar, fructose, and artificial sweeteners. I try to keep mine under 12-15 g a day for ALL sweeteners and sugars that occur naturally.
I am very excited to know that there are people out there that do NOT have this problem, and am happy to hear of all of your success stories. I wish I was like you. Unfortunately, I am not.
For either side to to blanket say, "everyone must avoid sugar" or "sugar isn't a problem, only calories count", each is a very blinded view. There are people who shouldn't eat much sugar at all, and there are others that have no issue with eating as much as they want. We are all individuals, and must tailor our way of eating to reflect our individual health requirements.
Nobody is saying that people with certain medical conditions shouldn't limit their sugar. But that is true of a lot of things. Cheese is bad for lactose intolerant people. Bread bad for people with celiacs. Nuts very bad for people with nut allergies. But none of those things make the specific food bad. Same is with sugar. If someone has a medical condition they should regulate it, but people who do not have a disease that is affected by sugar do not.21 -
MikePTY, I agree wholeheartedly. Sugar in and of itself is not bad IF you do not have high insulin resistance. But if you do, it is very bad. Consistent high levels of insulin, which is the body's response to sugar, exacerbates the problem.
Coming from a long line of diabetics, I finally convinced the doc to run a test for INSULIN, not just blood glucose. Diabetes doesn't happen overnight. He was shocked by the results. My glucose numbers were normal. My insulin was not. Hence my need to keep sugar (and carbs in general) in check.
Insulin levels are only rarely checked in the general "healthy" population. I for one, would be very interested to see how many "healthy" people do suffer from a degree of insulin resistance.
People who do have insulin resistence tend to think that everyone else around them does, too. People who are insulin sensitive tend to think that everyone else around them is insulin sensitive, too. Both opinions are wrong.
It's too bad people blast away at everyone from their own n=1 experience, instead of taking into account that other people might just be in a different situation from them.6 -
Wow is right, more like omg wowNony_Mouse wrote: »I consume around 160 to 195g of granulated sugar for coffee daily...and have for years. 1st time around, 3yrs ago, I lost 40-45lbs...just recently restarted gym after stopping, and have now lost 10-12...so.....
that's either a lot of coffee, a lot of sugar in your coffee, or both. Impressive! . i've cut back some, on average I drink 5 12oz cups, using 2.5 tbsp. Gotta have it sweet (grins)
Never did a calculation on sugar intake, but what I've figured/converted...tbsp (2.5 cup) = 12.5 tbsp x 30 days = 450 tbsp, which worked out to 12.4 lbs. That seems extremely wrong..hmmm..ouch. I know I never purchase 3 4lb bags...then again I'm sorta brain dead..lol.
From what I've found, 5lbs of sugar = 181.45 tbsp. Shock me I have had to miss something with this (thinks)
Oh well...if such excess would ever show in a complete blood workup, then all reading were normal.
Thanks for making Me look at this...Fred
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Exercise improves sensitivity to insulin.5
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VictoryGarden wrote: »MikePTY, I agree wholeheartedly. Sugar in and of itself is not bad IF you do not have high insulin resistance. But if you do, it is very bad. Consistent high levels of insulin, which is the body's response to sugar, exacerbates the problem.
Coming from a long line of diabetics, I finally convinced the doc to run a test for INSULIN, not just blood glucose. Diabetes doesn't happen overnight. He was shocked by the results. My glucose numbers were normal. My insulin was not. Hence my need to keep sugar (and carbs in general) in check.
Insulin levels are only rarely checked in the general "healthy" population. I for one, would be very interested to see how many "healthy" people do suffer from a degree of insulin resistance.
People who do have insulin resistence tend to think that everyone else around them does, too. People who are insulin sensitive tend to think that everyone else around them is insulin sensitive, too. Both opinions are wrong.
It's too bad people blast away at everyone from their own n=1 experience, instead of taking into account that other people might just be in a different situation from them.
While I completely agree with this, the OP's proposition doesn't apply in any case. Being careful with sugar in this case is a good idea, but sugar does not make anyone gain weight without a calorie surplus, not even those with insulin resistance.10 -
Tandyman23 wrote: »Make sure to closely monitor sugar intake even if you are watching calorie intake. The effect sugar has on insulin level and fat isnt correlated with the amount of calories you are consuming. I personally try not to exceed 10g of sugar a day if that. Counting calories means absolutely nothing if you are still consuming 30g+ of sugar a day.
It is the bolded that most of us are rolling our verbal eyes about.12 -
VictoryGarden wrote: »For those of us who have an insulin resistance problem, even in the absence of diabetes CURRENTLY, we DO have to watch our sugar, fructose, and artificial sweeteners. I try to keep mine under 12-15 g a day for ALL sweeteners and sugars that occur naturally.
I am very excited to know that there are people out there that do NOT have this problem, and am happy to hear of all of your success stories. I wish I was like you. Unfortunately, I am not.
For either side to to blanket say, "everyone must avoid sugar" or "sugar isn't a problem, only calories count", each is a very blinded view. There are people who shouldn't eat much sugar at all, and there are others that have no issue with eating as much as they want. We are all individuals, and must tailor our way of eating to reflect our individual health requirements.
But the OP was about losing/gaining weight, not health. If you look at threads here where people are asking about sugar levels for a healthy diet or that sort of thing, you will find plenty of us adding a caveat for those with medical issues. The OP's post is factually wrong, full stop. Whether or not someone has IR or diabetes, the presence of too much sugar in their diet will not cause weight gain regardless of calories. It might cause a health problem for them, no one here was saying it wouldn't.9 -
Yeah okay2
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VictoryGarden wrote: »For those of us who have an insulin resistance problem, even in the absence of diabetes CURRENTLY, we DO have to watch our sugar, fructose, and artificial sweeteners. I try to keep mine under 12-15 g a day for ALL sweeteners and sugars that occur naturally.
I am very excited to know that there are people out there that do NOT have this problem, and am happy to hear of all of your success stories. I wish I was like you. Unfortunately, I am not.
For either side to to blanket say, "everyone must avoid sugar" or "sugar isn't a problem, only calories count", each is a very blinded view. There are people who shouldn't eat much sugar at all, and there are others that have no issue with eating as much as they want. We are all individuals, and must tailor our way of eating to reflect our individual health requirements.
But the OP was about losing/gaining weight, not health. If you look at threads here where people are asking about sugar levels for a healthy diet or that sort of thing, you will find plenty of us adding a caveat for those with medical issues. The OP's post is factually wrong, full stop. Whether or not someone has IR or diabetes, the presence of too much sugar in their diet will not cause weight gain regardless of calories. It might cause a health problem for them, no one here was saying it wouldn't.
Yes exactly.
Have never seen thread where OP says I am diabetic, could you recomend some low sugar snacks (for example)
and then posters jump in saying sugars dont matter.
But blanket recomendations like this thread where OP told everyone to closely monitor their sugar intake and keep it extremely low and that counting calories doesnt matter if you consume over 30g sugar per day - that is not at all correct and people replied to say so.
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Okaaaaaay - here we go !
1. Both the WHO and the NHS recommend limiting ADDED sugar in anyones diet. From the NHS, the limit recommended is 30g per day for everyone over the age of 11 without any other criteria.That excludes fruit and veg but includes fruit juices.
2. Sugar has limited / if any nutritional value - this does not detract from the fact that its yummy.
3. T2 diabetes is considered the most signficant health crisis in the UK currently and it doesnt turn up overnight. Yes it as a lot to do with fat, internally and externally but it doesnt happen in a sugarless void. Sugar (note not carbs) consumption has a correlation to the development of T2 diabetes.
4. Dentists would love us all to eat less - the first person to notice when I dropped my added sugar consumption down was my dentist (appreciate us Brits have a bad rep on the teeth front in general !).
I do think we have quite the regional difference when it comes to sugar with the US side of the board seeing it as less of an issue. Thats not a criticism or a judgement and I hope we can respect our differences on this.10 -
OooohToast wrote: »Okaaaaaay - here we go !
1. Both the WHO and the NHS recommend limiting ADDED sugar in anyones diet. From the NHS, the limit recommended is 30g per day for everyone over the age of 11 without any other criteria.That excludes fruit and veg but includes fruit juices.
2. Sugar has limited / if any nutritional value - this does not detract from the fact that its yummy.
3. T2 diabetes is considered the most signficant health crisis in the UK currently and it doesnt turn up overnight. Yes it as a lot to do with fat, internally and externally but it doesnt happen in a sugarless void. Sugar (note not carbs) consumption has a correlation to the development of T2 diabetes.
4. Dentists would love us all to eat less - the first person to notice when I dropped my added sugar consumption down was my dentist (appreciate us Brits have a bad rep on the teeth front in general !).
I do think we have quite the regional difference when it comes to sugar with the US side of the board seeing it as less of an issue. Thats not a criticism or a judgement and I hope we can respect our differences on this.
To answer these:
1. The recommendation to limit added sugar is due to the correlation between foods high in added sugar and in-taking more calories on an unrestricted eating diet. Basically, if you just eat until you are full, and you eat a lot of added sugar, statistically you will likely eat more calories than someone who does not eat added sugar. So for people who just eat until they are full, that is a sensible recommendation. But for calorie counters, we know how many calories we are putting in our body. So the need to restrict added sugar only comes into play if you find that when you eat a lot of it, you have trouble controlling your appetite and are prone to eating through your goals. This is not the case for everyone though. Since we have more data than the average person, we can personalize our own recommendations on this, and do not need to take the general recommendations if they are not applicable.
2. Sugar is a source of energy just like other sources of calories. It fuels your body. "Nutrition" largely comes from other things such as vitamins and minerals. Sugary foods can either be nutritious or non nutritious depending on what they are. Fruits are sugary and very nutritious. Starburst candy is not nutritious. A lot of foods with added sugar tend not to be very nutritious, but it may not always be the case.
3. Sugar is not a cause T2 diabetes. Obesity is. Your own NHS says so https://www.diabetes.org.uk/guide-to-diabetes/enjoy-food/eating-with-diabetes/diabetes-food-myths/myth-sugar-causes-diabetes. So if eating a lot of sugary foods is causing you to be obese, then yes, it can be a problem. But so can fat or other carbs or protein or whatever you eat to create a calorie surplus.
4. Yes dental health is one area that sugar does affect. So depending on how peoples dental health is, it's a consideration.
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OooohToast wrote: »Okaaaaaay - here we go !
1. Both the WHO and the NHS recommend limiting ADDED sugar in anyones diet. From the NHS, the limit recommended is 30g per day for everyone over the age of 11 without any other criteria.That excludes fruit and veg but includes fruit juices.
2. Sugar has limited / if any nutritional value - this does not detract from the fact that its yummy.
3. T2 diabetes is considered the most signficant health crisis in the UK currently and it doesnt turn up overnight. Yes it as a lot to do with fat, internally and externally but it doesnt happen in a sugarless void. Sugar (note not carbs) consumption has a correlation to the development of T2 diabetes.
4. Dentists would love us all to eat less - the first person to notice when I dropped my added sugar consumption down was my dentist (appreciate us Brits have a bad rep on the teeth front in general !).
I do think we have quite the regional difference when it comes to sugar with the US side of the board seeing it as less of an issue. Thats not a criticism or a judgement and I hope we can respect our differences on this.
I think it would have been helpful for the OP to distinguish between added sugar and all sugar, since it is not clear at all they were referring only to added sugar in the original post.
I wholeheartedly agree with you on all your points from a health and nutrition perspective (and I'm on the US side!), but your post is a far more nuanced and reasonable position than OP's "calories don't matter if you're getting more than 30+ grams of sugar". Yes, calories do matter when it comes to weight loss, and limiting added sugar does matter when it comes to a nutritious and healthy diet. You can certainly lose weight on a Twinkie and junk food diet by limiting calories and not caring what the sugar is....but I don't think anyone would argue that is nutritious or healthy. Words matter. 1 -
OooohToast wrote: »Okaaaaaay - here we go !
1. Both the WHO and the NHS recommend limiting ADDED sugar in anyones diet. From the NHS, the limit recommended is 30g per day for everyone over the age of 11 without any other criteria.That excludes fruit and veg but includes fruit juices.
2. Sugar has limited / if any nutritional value - this does not detract from the fact that its yummy.
3. T2 diabetes is considered the most signficant health crisis in the UK currently and it doesnt turn up overnight. Yes it as a lot to do with fat, internally and externally but it doesnt happen in a sugarless void. Sugar (note not carbs) consumption has a correlation to the development of T2 diabetes.
4. Dentists would love us all to eat less - the first person to notice when I dropped my added sugar consumption down was my dentist (appreciate us Brits have a bad rep on the teeth front in general !).
I do think we have quite the regional difference when it comes to sugar with the US side of the board seeing it as less of an issue. Thats not a criticism or a judgement and I hope we can respect our differences on this.
I think it would have been helpful for the OP to distinguish between added sugar and all sugar, since it is not clear at all they were referring only to added sugar in the original post.
I don't think OP was at all limiting the post to added sugar, and the later poster arguing in favor of OP's post was talking about all sugar and expanded it to carbs. [Edit: oops, I guess that was the other identical thread OP started. Can't blame me for getting confused.]
Many of us who responded specifically discussed eating veg and fruit, of course, as one reason the advice was bad, so I don't understand how one could read the discussion as us all saying "added sugar is great in any numbers." People did, of course, disagree with specific points made by OP, so if the newer poster thinks those are incorrect, it would be helpful to address specific incorrect points and not to accuse us (all of us here in the US who responded, and maybe the Canadians too, don't know about the UK responders) of saying things we did not.2 -
Okay, it appears the thread where another poster was insisting that ALL sugar, and meaning all net carbs, was the identical one started elsewhere, but:OooohToast wrote: »Okaaaaaay - here we go !
1. Both the WHO and the NHS recommend limiting ADDED sugar in anyones diet. From the NHS, the limit recommended is 30g per day for everyone over the age of 11 without any other criteria.That excludes fruit and veg but includes fruit juices.
The US has recommendations like this too, as I have explained to you before.
This has ZERO to do with an assertion that we must watch (and keep super low) ALL sugar, and as I and many others pointed out to OP, many of us go over the asserted sugar limit necessary to lose (according to OP) wiht fruit and veg. OP insisted on the ridiculously low number 10 g as his supposedly even better limit, and as I noted for me that would mean fewer veg than I like to eat in a day (I am usually over 10 servings, and I think a variety of veg, not just spinach or chard or lettuce) is important.
If OP thought it was being misunderstood he could have jumped in and clarified, but of course he did not, and I think given the context it's a better interpretation to think he meant ALL sugar.
Thus, I don't get why you are pretending the rest of us are defending unlimited added sugar (most can limit added sugar not by counting but just by knowing what they eat and making mostly nutrient dense choices).
Also, even if added sugar was what was referred to (which I strongly doubt) it would STILL be false to claim it interferes with weight loss unrelated to cals. OP didn't talk about nutrition and claimed it would prevent loss even if calories are right. Surely you aren't going to claim that's what the WHO says!3. Sugar has limited / if any nutritional value - this does not detract from the fact that its yummy.
Once again, many nutrient dense foods, like fruit and veg, come with some sugar. It's not hard to go over 30 g with, say, 7-8 servings of veg, 3 of fruit, depending on what fruits are chosen, especially. But not long ago the NIH (your own source!) was pushing 10+ fruits and veg as better than the basic 5 (I like to eat 10+ servings of veg and then 2-3 servings of fruit, at least some of which are often avocado or strawberries/raspberries, but even so that's usually over 30).4. T2 diabetes is considered the most signficant health crisis in the UK currently and it doesnt turn up overnight. Yes it as a lot to do with fat, internally and externally but it doesnt happen in a sugarless void. Sugar (note not carbs) consumption has a correlation to the development of T2 diabetes.
From what I've read, this is not true. The only consumption connection with T2D (which may have correlation issues) is sugary sodas. Being obese/having excessive body fat is clearly a risk, and is probably the reason that western style diets are ALSO correlated (which involve a lot more than increased sugar and often DO NOT involve increased carbs). In some (non western) countries this correlation kicks in before people are actually overweight or obese but ARE heavier than in the past.5. Dentists would love us all to eat less - the first person to notice when I dropped my added sugar consumption down was my dentist (appreciate us Brits have a bad rep on the teeth front in general !).
The WHO put this on added sugar. Even if peaches have some affect on teeth, sorry, I'm still eating them. I can take care of my teeth in the ordinary ways. (My biggest tooth risk factor, other than the bike accident I was in once, is coffee, and I don't consume it sweetened. I also consume well under what the WHO recommends as an added sugar rec most days (on occasional days not, but on average, yes, easily), although this was also something I did before I knew about the WHO recs, because I tend to focus on nutrient dense foods and don't like sweetened drinks. So I don't think I need to worry about added sugar (let alone ALL sugar, as OP was talking about). Maybe you had an issue with excessive added sugar, but assuming everyone else in this discussion consumes a lot or needs to reduce their added sugar would be wrong.I do think we have quite the regional difference when it comes to sugar with the US side of the board seeing it as less of an issue. Thats not a criticism or a judgement and I hope we can respect our differences on this.
I don't know where you get this, as it's not supported by anything, as I explained to you before. In particular, US authorities recommend limiting added sugar (consistent with the WHO). We don't confuse people by claiming that ALL sugar needs to be limited, but in that people in the US consume too little fruit, veg, and dairy (although I am personally skeptical about the importance of the dairy recommendation), saying ALL sugar should be limited would not only be unsupported advice not backed up by any credible studies or dietary experts, but counterproductive given other recommendations (great, everyone is now scared of fruit and thinks under 10 or even 5 g of sugar is the best -- wheee, no vegetables either!).
That you read OP's advice to be about added sugar and then decided to insist that Americans are against advice to limit added sugar (I'm American, I didn't check where everyone else was from, but I also said that I think added sugar should be limited in my response to OP) is interesting and IMO a misreading of the conversation.
No, OP did not get woos for saying added sugar should be limited (which is not what he said), but that ALL sugar had to be below 30 g for weight loss to work, and that he should be congratulated for being below 10 g (again, a number that would cause most to limit amounts of healthful foods that should be in a diet, according to the NIH's own recommendations).11 -
estherdragonbat wrote: »Tandyman23 wrote: »Make sure to closely monitor sugar intake even if you are watching calorie intake. The effect sugar has on insulin level and fat isnt correlated with the amount of calories you are consuming. I personally try not to exceed 10g of sugar a day if that. Counting calories means absolutely nothing if you are still consuming 30g+ of sugar a day.
Tell that to the 108 lbs I lost.
And the 84 pounds I’ve lost thus far. (25 to go)
46 grams of sugar every morning in the form of one can of rockstar organic energy.
An average over all deficit of 2k cal a day due to exercise let’s you do all sorts of supposedly “bad” things... and still melt fat like an ice cube under a hot faucet.
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