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Keto diet= good or bad
Replies
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I have lost 90 lbs with keto in 18 months; currently I've been stalled for about 8 months and can't seem to get the scale moving again. HOWEVER, I have also reversed my T2 diabetes and have been able to stop all 3 of my meds; I've normalized my blood pressure and have been able to stop meds; I've lowered my cholesterol. I've CURED my decades long IBS/recurrent diverticulitis problems. I have ZERO inflammation in my body anymore and haven't been sick (not even a cold) for 2 years. I'd say keto is very, very good.
You can't cure diverticulitis. You can have remission of symptoms but it can still flare at any point. The only way to eliminate diverticulitis is a colon resection.7 -
I am currently in a calorie deficit, as I also do IF. In the past when I've stalled, it was always because it was healing something and the weight loss would start again. I'm certain my weight will start dropping again if I just keto on. I heard it gets more difficult the closer you get to your goal, and I am finding that to be true.
Its harder to lose weight when you are lean because its harder to create a deficit. And because of things like metabolic adaptation and effects on hormones, its often beneficial to take a diet break and eat at maintenance and then come back with a smaller deficit. You also have to consider logging practices and other variables that effect long term weight loss.3 -
No, not true. I could never reverse my T2 diabetes without drastically cutting the carbs. I could only eat 500 calories a day, but if they were all carbs, I wouldn't lose weight. How do I know that? I tried for years. Diet after diet after diet. NONE of them addressed the underlying issue of why I gained weight in the first place: insulin resistance.
More than likely you gained weight before you became insulin resistant...
I would say its difficult for either to make that assessment without blood work. People can develop IR even while lean. Things like genetics and even antibiotics can cause IR. Certainly inactivity and obesity drive a large propensity of cases but unless you know this posters medical history, i wouldn't make such statements.2 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »This hits on the non ketone keto benefits and why IF is so successful that I have been looking for for four years. I read the transcript because I do not think she is from Kentucky.
https://hvmn.com/podcast/gut-microbiome-research-roundup
I love the fact that the CEO of that company is actually named Woo.
Coincidence? I think not15 -
No, not true. I could never reverse my T2 diabetes without drastically cutting the carbs. I could only eat 500 calories a day, but if they were all carbs, I wouldn't lose weight. How do I know that? I tried for years. Diet after diet after diet. NONE of them addressed the underlying issue of why I gained weight in the first place: insulin resistance.
More than likely you gained weight before you became insulin resistant...
I would say its difficult for either to make that assessment without blood work. People can develop IR even while lean. Things like genetics and even antibiotics can cause IR. Certainly inactivity and obesity drive a large propensity of cases but unless you know this posters medical history, i wouldn't make such statements.
The evidence is that T2D and IR correlate significantly with obesity. Lean people developing real IR is rare, and if someone non obese (or even non overweight) develops it, there's usually an excessive fat issue (for example, Asians for whom the excess fat percentage/BMI is less than for other groups or people who are excess fat while normal BMI). It IS genetic, in large part, but the genetics seem to be how much excessive fat is necessary to trigger it, for some very little, for some a great deal or age is also necessary.
The claim that IR comes first, weight gain is second still makes little sense. IR means it's harder to get cells to take in carbs, which includes storing them as fat. You are more likely to waste carbs without using them (or storing them).
It absolutely does not allow someone to gain eating 500 (or slightly over) per day, as claimed. That is simply impossible.
Again, IR goes up in tandem with obesity and overweight. For nearly everyone losing weight = fixing the problem. Cutting carbs cures the symptoms and may be an alternative approach, but it does not CURE or put IR in remission, as typically it actually decreases insulin sensitivity. What increases insulin sensitivity is weight loss and exercise.6 -
No, not true. I could never reverse my T2 diabetes without drastically cutting the carbs. I could only eat 500 calories a day, but if they were all carbs, I wouldn't lose weight. How do I know that? I tried for years. Diet after diet after diet. NONE of them addressed the underlying issue of why I gained weight in the first place: insulin resistance.
I'd say I'm "skeptical at best". That's literally less than my 2 year old eats and you're basically saying that your BMR is 500 calories.....
Ya, I can't even say I'm skeptical. There's no way. Are you over exaggerating to try to make a point?
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No, not true. I could never reverse my T2 diabetes without drastically cutting the carbs. I could only eat 500 calories a day, but if they were all carbs, I wouldn't lose weight. How do I know that? I tried for years. Diet after diet after diet. NONE of them addressed the underlying issue of why I gained weight in the first place: insulin resistance.
More than likely you gained weight before you became insulin resistant...
I would say its difficult for either to make that assessment without blood work. People can develop IR even while lean. Things like genetics and even antibiotics can cause IR. Certainly inactivity and obesity drive a large propensity of cases but unless you know this posters medical history, i wouldn't make such statements.
Fair point. Thx for the perspective...1 -
No, not true. I could never reverse my T2 diabetes without drastically cutting the carbs. I could only eat 500 calories a day, but if they were all carbs, I wouldn't lose weight. How do I know that? I tried for years. Diet after diet after diet. NONE of them addressed the underlying issue of why I gained weight in the first place: insulin resistance.
More than likely you gained weight before you became insulin resistant...
I would say its difficult for either to make that assessment without blood work. People can develop IR even while lean. Things like genetics and even antibiotics can cause IR. Certainly inactivity and obesity drive a large propensity of cases but unless you know this posters medical history, i wouldn't make such statements.
The evidence is that T2D and IR correlate significantly with obesity. Lean people developing real IR is rare, and if someone non obese (or even non overweight) develops it, there's usually an excessive fat issue (for example, Asians for whom the excess fat percentage/BMI is less than for other groups or people who are excess fat while normal BMI). It IS genetic, in large part, but the genetics seem to be how much excessive fat is necessary to trigger it, for some very little, for some a great deal or age is also necessary.
The claim that IR comes first, weight gain is second still makes little sense. IR means it's harder to get cells to take in carbs, which includes storing them as fat. You are more likely to waste carbs without using them (or storing them).
It absolutely does not allow someone to gain eating 500 (or slightly over) per day, as claimed. That is simply impossible.
Again, IR goes up in tandem with obesity and overweight. For nearly everyone losing weight = fixing the problem. Cutting carbs cures the symptoms and may be an alternative approach, but it does not CURE or put IR in remission, as typically it actually decreases insulin sensitivity. What increases insulin sensitivity is weight loss and exercise.
Yes, i understand IR and how it comes about. The point is to not make a judgement based on no data.
When one is IR, there are higher rates of de novo lipogenesis will occur. But also when someone has IR and consumes carbs, there body will overproduce insulin which will prolong lipogenesis and minimize lipolysis. So greater periods of storage and minimized fat burning.
There is very strong evidence that ketogenic diets and low carb can cause remission of IR symptoms even without weight loss. It just happens to make weight loss easier since your body functions better. I would think your over EE would increae, albeit, i haven't seen evidence specifically around that. But if a person generally feels better things like NEAT will generally improve.
And no, she won't gain weight or prevent weight loss on 500 calories. Because at the level you have to suppress carbs to get there. But also what happens when people over suppress calories, is binging which will then drive higher fat storage.3 -
No, not true. I could never reverse my T2 diabetes without drastically cutting the carbs. I could only eat 500 calories a day, but if they were all carbs, I wouldn't lose weight. How do I know that? I tried for years. Diet after diet after diet. NONE of them addressed the underlying issue of why I gained weight in the first place: insulin resistance.
More than likely you gained weight before you became insulin resistant...
I would say its difficult for either to make that assessment without blood work. People can develop IR even while lean. Things like genetics and even antibiotics can cause IR. Certainly inactivity and obesity drive a large propensity of cases but unless you know this posters medical history, i wouldn't make such statements.
The evidence is that T2D and IR correlate significantly with obesity. Lean people developing real IR is rare, and if someone non obese (or even non overweight) develops it, there's usually an excessive fat issue (for example, Asians for whom the excess fat percentage/BMI is less than for other groups or people who are excess fat while normal BMI). It IS genetic, in large part, but the genetics seem to be how much excessive fat is necessary to trigger it, for some very little, for some a great deal or age is also necessary.
The claim that IR comes first, weight gain is second still makes little sense. IR means it's harder to get cells to take in carbs, which includes storing them as fat. You are more likely to waste carbs without using them (or storing them).
It absolutely does not allow someone to gain eating 500 (or slightly over) per day, as claimed. That is simply impossible.
Again, IR goes up in tandem with obesity and overweight. For nearly everyone losing weight = fixing the problem. Cutting carbs cures the symptoms and may be an alternative approach, but it does not CURE or put IR in remission, as typically it actually decreases insulin sensitivity. What increases insulin sensitivity is weight loss and exercise.
Yes, i understand IR and how it comes about. The point is to not make a judgement based on no data.
When one is IR, there are higher rates of de novo lipogenesis will occur. But also when someone has IR and consumes carbs, there body will overproduce insulin which will prolong lipogenesis and minimize lipolysis. So greater periods of storage and minimized fat burning.
There is very strong evidence that ketogenic diets and low carb can cause remission of IR symptoms even without weight loss. It just happens to make weight loss easier since your body functions better. I would think your over EE would increae, albeit, i haven't seen evidence specifically around that. But if a person generally feels better things like NEAT will generally improve.
And no, she won't gain weight or prevent weight loss on 500 calories. Because at the level you have to suppress carbs to get there. But also what happens when people over suppress calories, is binging which will then drive higher fat storage.
I was responding to the claim that she would gain on 500 cals of only carbs. That's impossible. It's harder for someone with IR to gain on carbs, period, and also calories still matter.
What might happen is someone is hungry, eats more of everything (including fat) and gain as a result of the increased cals. But I don't think that's really necessary given the strong correlation between excess calorie consumption, then weight gain, then development of IR.
I agree that keto reduces the symptoms of IR pretty much immediate, since if you aren't consuming carbs being IR doesn't really matter. But it does NOT make you more IS, quite the opposite. What does that is losing weight, and/or more activity. If someone actually wants to be more IS (which seems desirable), a diet with balanced carbs (making sure meals with carbs also contain fiber and protein and that the total amount of carbs is somewhat limited), as many here have done to reverse T2D is actually more likely to achieve it than keto. However, of course, keto can help some lose weight (if they have an appetite or just tend to have a lack of control with high fat/carb foods that are necessarily eliminated with keto) and the weight loss is helpful in fixing IR (although will probably require eating carbs later to actually regain IS). But if one feels like they can't meet their calorie goal when eating more carbs or keto is easier, it's helpful to know you control the symptoms (and therefore any further damage) from IR doing keto.
As you know, I'm not against keto at all, but I am against claims such as that someone could not lose on 500 cals or that it's easier to gain weight eating mostly carbs if one is IR or that keto makes one more IS. I know you don't think those things, but the post you seemed to be defending did, and therefore I thought it had to be clarified.5 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »Low-Carb Diet Benefits People with Metabolic Syndrome Independent of Weight Loss
Jun 24, 2019 by News Staff / Source
sci-news.com/medicine/low-carb-diet-metabolic-syndrome-07315.html
"A new study published in the Journal of Clinical Investigation Insight shows that metabolic syndrome — a cluster of factors that also put people at higher risk of heart disease and stroke — can be rapidly (within 4 weeks) reversed by a low-carb diet in the majority of people even if they don’t lose any weight....."- Study had a whopping 16 participants.
- On LC, 9 of 16 no longer qualified as MetSyn after 4 weeks, after MC 3 of 16 no longer qualified, not exactly enough to consider definitive.
- I would love to see if this experiment were extended out to 6 months, would the results even out? In other words, does the LC diet just get these results faster?
- Considering the typical claims about keto, I found this blurb interesting: "They did not see statistically significant improvements in blood pressure or insulin resistance."
- Dr. Volek founded a company that sells a rather expensive private program that claims to treat and reverse T2D through keto. Just something to keep in mind. https://www.virtahealth.com/about/jeffvolek
I can appreciate that this goes to the argument that benefits of low carb are attributable to weight loss, not the type of diet. This is a small, one off study, but point taken.
Having said that, I doubt it's a good idea to stay obese but eat low carb to avoid some of the risk of Metabolic Syndrome. And if reaching a healthy weight anyway will reverse it regardless of how you eat, I'm not sure what the point is unless you enjoy eating that way. To me, what this study suggests is: if you are going to stay obese, you might be better off eating low carb. I don't think it asserts anything about the best way to lose weight, or the best way to eat if you are a healthy weight. Just my opinion, of course.
Low carb is not for weight loss but to see if it will help resolve the health issues that lead to obesity initially since obesity does not seem to be a primary disease but a secondary disease due to some.
The short n=16 study was only about reducing the known risk factors of heart disease which is a major cause of death in the USA.
Below is some research on the impact of eating protein, fats and carbs on the gut microbiome that may be of interest to some reading on the subject. The quoted text typically is from the start of different section of the research paper that would be best to read fully in interested in the subject matter.
Influence of diet on the gut microbiome and implications for human health
https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5385025/
"Protein
The effects of dietary protein on the gut microbiota were first described in 1977."
"Fats
Consumption of high saturated and trans fat diets is thought to increase the risk of cardiovascular disease through upregulation of blood total- and LDL-cholesterol [43, 44]."
"Carbohydrates
Digestible carbohydrates (starch, sugars)
Carbohydrates are possibly the most well studied dietary component for their ability to modify the gut microbiome (studies listed in Table 4)."
"The artificial sweeteners saccharin, sucralose, and aspartame represent another dietary controversy. Artificial sweeteners were originally marketed as a health-conscious, no-calorie food option that could be used to replace natural sugar. Recent evidence from Suez et al. suggests that consumption of all types of artificial sweeteners is actually more likely to induce glucose intolerance than consumption of pure glucose and sucrose. Interestingly, artificial sweeteners are thought to mediate this effect through alteration of gut microbiota." The bold text is my doing for a special person that is struggling with this health risk.
"Besides immunity, gut microorganisms have also been shown to impact host metabolic health. Individuals with metabolic disorders such as obesity and diabetes have been shown to have intestinal dysbiosis in relation to healthy individuals [148, 149]. Further characterization of the link between the gut microbiome and obesity has revealed several bacterial groups that may specifically contribute to the disease." Note: Bolding in this paragraph is to highlight that obesity primarily is a metabolic disorder that can cause obesity as a side effect of a primary health disorder. Truly healthy people or other animals do not become obese. Over eating is not a primary cause of obesity in a medical sense. Calories are units of energy. Macros are what that primarily leads to a positive or negative gut microbiome. The gut brain connection illustrates how what we want to put into our mouths can be influenced by one's own gut microbiome demands.
Binging is one example of this. Totally healthy people do not binge eat from what I can read or my experience since Oct 2014 at the age of 63. If some have medical science links that prove my personal experiences of the past 5 years of eating Low Carb High Fat are not factual and or that this research report is not factual please post the links and we can debate from that point.
Please do tell me what is wrong with me that causes my binge eating please. And indeed how it is that this thing has been wrong with me for the last forty years without any other apparent impact.
Please share all of your n=1 studies over the last 40 years and their results if you want a MFP peer review in your case perhaps.
In my case I had did not start my first n=1 where I left all types of sweeteners and all forms of all grains until Oct 2014 cold turkey successfully and made up my calorie loss with coconut oil. My only objective was to find a diet based solution to my 40 years of joint pain and IBS because the doctors has me scheduled to start Enbrel injections Nov 2014 that I thought would be the end of me in my weakened state of health at the age of 63.
A couple weeks into LCHF my pain and cravings started to drop like a rock and both have been well managed by diet only for over 4 years. The unplanned weight loss started at the six week mark and now I have been down 50 pounds for 4 years eating all that I wanted so never going hungry. I do keep my carbs down to 50 grams daily because of my plant based fiber that is as low as I will go carb wise but have no daily calorie limits but I seldom eat over 3000 calories a day.
In my case my binge eating desired stopped a couple weeks after I dropped my daily carbs down to 50 grams. I make no claims as to why my fuel gauge started back to working after being broken for 40 years. I expect in light of medical research my new Way Of Eating fixed my primary health issues that was causing my secondary obesity related issues since my health and lab exams became normal for the first time in 40 years.
Just picking up on the IBS and joint pain, it might be that grains or wheat were simply the problem for you, rather than carbs per se. So when you cut out the grains/wheat whatever by default you help those issues?
I dont eat a lot of wheaty products, I dont eat a lot of bread and when I do I find my joints hurt and my IBS symptoms get worse.3 -
No, not true. I could never reverse my T2 diabetes without drastically cutting the carbs. I could only eat 500 calories a day, but if they were all carbs, I wouldn't lose weight. How do I know that? I tried for years. Diet after diet after diet. NONE of them addressed the underlying issue of why I gained weight in the first place: insulin resistance.
Surely its not possible to only eat 500 cals a day and NOT lose weight, you must be a medical miracle.3 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »Low-Carb Diet Benefits People with Metabolic Syndrome Independent of Weight Loss
Jun 24, 2019 by News Staff / Source
sci-news.com/medicine/low-carb-diet-metabolic-syndrome-07315.html
"A new study published in the Journal of Clinical Investigation Insight shows that metabolic syndrome — a cluster of factors that also put people at higher risk of heart disease and stroke — can be rapidly (within 4 weeks) reversed by a low-carb diet in the majority of people even if they don’t lose any weight....."- Study had a whopping 16 participants.
- On LC, 9 of 16 no longer qualified as MetSyn after 4 weeks, after MC 3 of 16 no longer qualified, not exactly enough to consider definitive.
- I would love to see if this experiment were extended out to 6 months, would the results even out? In other words, does the LC diet just get these results faster?
- Considering the typical claims about keto, I found this blurb interesting: "They did not see statistically significant improvements in blood pressure or insulin resistance."
- Dr. Volek founded a company that sells a rather expensive private program that claims to treat and reverse T2D through keto. Just something to keep in mind. https://www.virtahealth.com/about/jeffvolek
I can appreciate that this goes to the argument that benefits of low carb are attributable to weight loss, not the type of diet. This is a small, one off study, but point taken.
Having said that, I doubt it's a good idea to stay obese but eat low carb to avoid some of the risk of Metabolic Syndrome. And if reaching a healthy weight anyway will reverse it regardless of how you eat, I'm not sure what the point is unless you enjoy eating that way. To me, what this study suggests is: if you are going to stay obese, you might be better off eating low carb. I don't think it asserts anything about the best way to lose weight, or the best way to eat if you are a healthy weight. Just my opinion, of course.
Low carb is not for weight loss but to see if it will help resolve the health issues that lead to obesity initially since obesity does not seem to be a primary disease but a secondary disease due to some.
The short n=16 study was only about reducing the known risk factors of heart disease which is a major cause of death in the USA.
Below is some research on the impact of eating protein, fats and carbs on the gut microbiome that may be of interest to some reading on the subject. The quoted text typically is from the start of different section of the research paper that would be best to read fully in interested in the subject matter.
Influence of diet on the gut microbiome and implications for human health
https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5385025/
"Protein
The effects of dietary protein on the gut microbiota were first described in 1977."
"Fats
Consumption of high saturated and trans fat diets is thought to increase the risk of cardiovascular disease through upregulation of blood total- and LDL-cholesterol [43, 44]."
"Carbohydrates
Digestible carbohydrates (starch, sugars)
Carbohydrates are possibly the most well studied dietary component for their ability to modify the gut microbiome (studies listed in Table 4)."
"The artificial sweeteners saccharin, sucralose, and aspartame represent another dietary controversy. Artificial sweeteners were originally marketed as a health-conscious, no-calorie food option that could be used to replace natural sugar. Recent evidence from Suez et al. suggests that consumption of all types of artificial sweeteners is actually more likely to induce glucose intolerance than consumption of pure glucose and sucrose. Interestingly, artificial sweeteners are thought to mediate this effect through alteration of gut microbiota." The bold text is my doing for a special person that is struggling with this health risk.
"Besides immunity, gut microorganisms have also been shown to impact host metabolic health. Individuals with metabolic disorders such as obesity and diabetes have been shown to have intestinal dysbiosis in relation to healthy individuals [148, 149]. Further characterization of the link between the gut microbiome and obesity has revealed several bacterial groups that may specifically contribute to the disease." Note: Bolding in this paragraph is to highlight that obesity primarily is a metabolic disorder that can cause obesity as a side effect of a primary health disorder. Truly healthy people or other animals do not become obese. Over eating is not a primary cause of obesity in a medical sense. Calories are units of energy. Macros are what that primarily leads to a positive or negative gut microbiome. The gut brain connection illustrates how what we want to put into our mouths can be influenced by one's own gut microbiome demands.
Binging is one example of this. Totally healthy people do not binge eat from what I can read or my experience since Oct 2014 at the age of 63. If some have medical science links that prove my personal experiences of the past 5 years of eating Low Carb High Fat are not factual and or that this research report is not factual please post the links and we can debate from that point.
Please do tell me what is wrong with me that causes my binge eating please. And indeed how it is that this thing has been wrong with me for the last forty years without any other apparent impact.
Please share all of your n=1 studies over the last 40 years and their results if you want a MFP peer review in your case perhaps.
In my case I had did not start my first n=1 where I left all types of sweeteners and all forms of all grains until Oct 2014 cold turkey successfully and made up my calorie loss with coconut oil. My only objective was to find a diet based solution to my 40 years of joint pain and IBS because the doctors has me scheduled to start Enbrel injections Nov 2014 that I thought would be the end of me in my weakened state of health at the age of 63.
A couple weeks into LCHF my pain and cravings started to drop like a rock and both have been well managed by diet only for over 4 years. The unplanned weight loss started at the six week mark and now I have been down 50 pounds for 4 years eating all that I wanted so never going hungry. I do keep my carbs down to 50 grams daily because of my plant based fiber that is as low as I will go carb wise but have no daily calorie limits but I seldom eat over 3000 calories a day.
In my case my binge eating desired stopped a couple weeks after I dropped my daily carbs down to 50 grams. I make no claims as to why my fuel gauge started back to working after being broken for 40 years. I expect in light of medical research my new Way Of Eating fixed my primary health issues that was causing my secondary obesity related issues since my health and lab exams became normal for the first time in 40 years.
Just picking up on the IBS and joint pain, it might be that grains or wheat were simply the problem for you, rather than carbs per se. So when you cut out the grains/wheat whatever by default you help those issues?
I dont eat a lot of wheaty products, I dont eat a lot of bread and when I do I find my joints hurt and my IBS symptoms get worse.
That's a possibility.. I ate some modied food starch what ever that may be by accident this week and had IBS for 8 hours for the first time in 4.5 years.2 -
I have lost 90 lbs with keto in 18 months; currently I've been stalled for about 8 months and can't seem to get the scale moving again. HOWEVER, I have also reversed my T2 diabetes and have been able to stop all 3 of my meds; I've normalized my blood pressure and have been able to stop meds; I've lowered my cholesterol. I've CURED my decades long IBS/recurrent diverticulitis problems. I have ZERO inflammation in my body anymore and haven't been sick (not even a cold) for 2 years. I'd say keto is very, very good.
I lost 100lbs on keto (and feel fantastic with remarkably great labs) and started into a stall. My "fix" was to begin a higher caloric intake to bring my metabolism up. In the keto circles I've shared in, there isn't much talk about caloric restriction stalling you out via your body shooting for homeostasis. Since I was good on 2MAD with IF at 16 or 18, I had to push calorie intake and had zero cravings, it also meant that my body adjusted to PLENTY of energy on about 1,000 calories. There is where the stall occurred. Solution: Increase caloric intake with continued keto principal (about 25 NET carbs - sometimes more sometime less) but with a significant increase in calories. I've done this for a month, have picked up a little in pounds/not much, and will return to my keto routine but again with some caloric deficit. I've got about 30-35lbs. to go in loss.
I think some people on keto don't listen to their bodies or continue to do needed research hence the claim that it is not sustainable. It is! As I progressed, I needed to continually tweak my macros. Before my stall, I was at about 48% protein, 45% fat, and the rest great carbs (I hadn't been eating my veggies for 20 YEARS before starting keto and KNEW it was bad - that having come from being a vegetarian for about 12 years - go figure). Feeling the best I've felt for 30 years and will be 60yo next month.
I know some might respond to this post that my weight loss was due to caloric restriction (note, it wasn't always at 1,000 calories - it got progressively lower as I tweaked my macros) but they cannot argue the great lab results I've been getting along the way and how fantastic I feel from the keto Way of Eating. I still say,.... everyone needs to find what works for them but BE HEALTHY!
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I am currently in a calorie deficit, as I also do IF. In the past when I've stalled, it was always because it was healing something and the weight loss would start again. I'm certain my weight will start dropping again if I just keto on. I heard it gets more difficult the closer you get to your goal, and I am finding that to be true.
If you are not losing weight you are not in a deficit...
I found this to be true, as well. I was in 30% caloric deficit but in plateau. It is because the body adjusts in homeostasis to a lower caloric intake but still plenty of energy. The way I had to break this was to reseed higher calories to reset my metabolism. Now, I'm going back to caloric restriction. The pain from the reset is only about 2-3 lbs across a month; no big deal. My system will break the stall cycle and start dropping weight again pretty quickly once at caloric restriction (fyi: I maintained my keto lifestyle with just larger caloric volume - at some points even doubled calories across the month 60-100% increase).
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In other words, if your body ADJUSTS to 1,000 calories, then your metabolism does not consider this a caloric restriction anymore because it has adjusted to it - that's why you can get stalled. The problem here is, unless you want to eat only 1,000 day for the rest of your life which makes it kind of difficult to get all of your nutrients, then you don't want your body to be continually RESET (if you stay at that Adjustment too long it will reset your metabolism and that is hard to change back up). If your body THINKS it has to live on only 1,000 calories it will slow your metabolism down to preserve/conserve those energy units. This is where people say you have to Change Things Up to fool your body. Unless you have arrived to Maintenance, please don't let your body reset its metabolism during a stall. Refeed for a while, reestablish a higher metabolism through caloric intake - check your TDEE - there is a free online calculator: Total Daily Energy Expenditure (calories needed to just be alive) and provide your body with the Maintenance amount for about a month or more (depending on how your body responds). Then, when you do reduce calories again, your body will see that as caloric restriction and start using up your fat stores again (in keto), you will break your plateau, and keto on til you set your maintenance macros.20
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promisesstandin wrote: »In other words, if your body ADJUSTS to 1,000 calories, then your metabolism does not consider this a caloric restriction anymore because it has adjusted to it - that's why you can get stalled. The problem here is, unless you want to eat only 1,000 day for the rest of your life which makes it kind of difficult to get all of your nutrients, then you don't want your body to be continually RESET (if you stay at that Adjustment too long it will reset your metabolism and that is hard to change back up). If your body THINKS it has to live on only 1,000 calories it will slow your metabolism down to preserve/conserve those energy units. This is where people say you have to Change Things Up to fool your body. Unless you have arrived to Maintenance, please don't let your body reset its metabolism during a stall. Refeed for a while, reestablish a higher metabolism through caloric intake - check your TDEE - there is a free online calculator: Total Daily Energy Expenditure (calories needed to just be alive) and provide your body with the Maintenance amount for about a month or more (depending on how your body responds). Then, when you do reduce calories again, your body will see that as caloric restriction and start using up your fat stores again (in keto), you will break your plateau, and keto on til you set your maintenance macros.
If this were true as stated then no one would die of starvation, their body would just adapt.
Adaptive thermogenesis can slow down weight loss after months or years of drastic under eating, but it will not stop weight loss at such a low calorie level. Yes, refeeds and structured diet breaks are well-researched and a good strategy if someone has a lot of weight to lose. But if someone is not losing weight at a very low calorie level, they are either eating more than they think (logging inaccurately is really easy to fall into) or there is a confounding medical condition. Regardless, I'm not sure what any of this has to do with whether keto is good or bad. The need to eat an appropriate amount of calories and think long term is universal, regardless of a person's way of eating.18 -
So much great info in this thread. Thanks to all for sharing.2
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No, not true. I could never reverse my T2 diabetes without drastically cutting the carbs. I could only eat 500 calories a day, but if they were all carbs, I wouldn't lose weight. How do I know that? I tried for years. Diet after diet after diet. NONE of them addressed the underlying issue of why I gained weight in the first place: insulin resistance.
More than likely you gained weight before you became insulin resistant...
I would say its difficult for either to make that assessment without blood work. People can develop IR even while lean. Things like genetics and even antibiotics can cause IR. Certainly inactivity and obesity drive a large propensity of cases but unless you know this posters medical history, i wouldn't make such statements.
The evidence is that T2D and IR correlate significantly with obesity. Lean people developing real IR is rare, and if someone non obese (or even non overweight) develops it, there's usually an excessive fat issue (for example, Asians for whom the excess fat percentage/BMI is less than for other groups or people who are excess fat while normal BMI). It IS genetic, in large part, but the genetics seem to be how much excessive fat is necessary to trigger it, for some very little, for some a great deal or age is also necessary.
The claim that IR comes first, weight gain is second still makes little sense. IR means it's harder to get cells to take in carbs, which includes storing them as fat. You are more likely to waste carbs without using them (or storing them).
It absolutely does not allow someone to gain eating 500 (or slightly over) per day, as claimed. That is simply impossible.
Again, IR goes up in tandem with obesity and overweight. For nearly everyone losing weight = fixing the problem. Cutting carbs cures the symptoms and may be an alternative approach, but it does not CURE or put IR in remission, as typically it actually decreases insulin sensitivity. What increases insulin sensitivity is weight loss and exercise.
Yes, i understand IR and how it comes about. The point is to not make a judgement based on no data.
When one is IR, there are higher rates of de novo lipogenesis will occur. But also when someone has IR and consumes carbs, there body will overproduce insulin which will prolong lipogenesis and minimize lipolysis. So greater periods of storage and minimized fat burning.
There is very strong evidence that ketogenic diets and low carb can cause remission of IR symptoms even without weight loss. It just happens to make weight loss easier since your body functions better. I would think your over EE would increae, albeit, i haven't seen evidence specifically around that. But if a person generally feels better things like NEAT will generally improve.
And no, she won't gain weight or prevent weight loss on 500 calories. Because at the level you have to suppress carbs to get there. But also what happens when people over suppress calories, is binging which will then drive higher fat storage.
IR actually seems to be good for fat loss, not preventing it. The excess calories that tend to lead to IR are the problem. One of the ways clen may work is it actually induces a slight amount of IR.
I'm not sure about de novo lipogensis going up, but if it did, that would also help, not hurt in terms of making weight loss. De novo lipogensis is a pathway of last resort in part because of the energy cost - you can't chain sugars together to create a fatty acid without using energy. Studies in pig overfeeding suggest a 20 to 25% cost: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4421107/2 -
http://theconversation.com/losing-weight-is-hard-but-its-not-any-harder-if-you-have-type-2-diabetes-86773
"Earlier this year, a systematic review explored whether it is harder to lose weight if you have type 2 diabetes. Researchers combined data from five studies, totalling 150 people with diabetes and 387 non-diabetic subjects, who all used a low-energy liquid formula diet.
They concluded that weight loss was the same – around 0.5kg per week – for both groups.
A recent large study, also using a liquid formula diet for weight management, had similar findings. There were 339 patients with diabetes, 1,669 non-diabetics and a third group of 225 patients with impaired fasting glucose (indicative of insulin-resistant prediabetes).
Weight loss over six months was comparable between the three groups (around 0.9kg per week), with most of the weight lost in the first six weeks. The substantial weight loss achieved by the prediabetic group is notable, given insulin resistance is often blamed for weight gain."
(Studies are linked in the article.)12
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