Welcome to Debate Club! Please be aware that this is a space for respectful debate, and that your ideas will be challenged here. Please remember to critique the argument, not the author.
76 Billion Opioid Pills Manufactured in USA 2006-2012
Replies
-
I'm going to assume this is the news bit OP is referring to..
https://www.biospace.com/article/release-of-federal-database-reveals-76-billion-opioid-pills-were-sold-in-the-u-s-from-2006-2012/The DEA database also revealed some surprising information about what the companies knew about the number of pills entering the market. The database provided information about the exact number of pills being dispensed, when the companies were made aware of the volume of pills being dispensed, as well as year by year and town by town information, the Post said. The evidence seems rather damning particularly as these companies are the subject of thousands of lawsuits from state and local governments. The Post noted that the companies “allowed the drugs to reach the streets of communities large and small, despite persistent red flags that those pills were being sold in apparent violation of federal law and diverted to the black market.”
The information in the database had long been held secret. However, a judicial order prompted the release of data up to 2013. U.S. District Judge Dan Polster said there is no basis for shielding older data, the Tribune Chronicle reported. The database information was released as part of ongoing opioid litigation in Ohio that targets manufacturers and distributors of opioids that have devastated communities across that state, as well as others. The lawsuits in Ohio target multiple opioid manufacturers, including Johnson & Johnson’s Janssen Pharmaceuticals, Purdue Pharma, Teva Pharmaceuticals and Cephalon, as well as the primary distributors.
In response to the release of the information in the database, a Mallinckrodt spokesperson told the Post that the company “produced opioids only within a government-controlled quota and sold only to DEA-approved distributors.” Actavis was acquired by Teva Pharmaceutical in 2016. A spokesperson for Israel-based Teva said the company is unable to speak about any systems regarding distribution that had been in place prior to the acquisition.
The release of the information from the DEA database will likely be seen as a boon from plaintiffs in the thousands of cases against the opioid manufacturers and distributors. A large number of lawsuits argue that opioid manufacturers and distributors used misleading marketing practices that contributed to high levels of addition. Additionally, the lawsuits argue that the companies downplayed concerns over abuse and were complicit in a large number of opioid deliveries to certain pharmacies in areas hard hit by the epidemic.
They mention the number of pills dispensed, but no guesstimate on the number of pills being funneled to the black market.1 -
There are times when short periods of opiate prescription can be really helpful in the care of the post operative or similarly pained persons. As someone who reacts to salicylate, discovered when I forgot to take an aspirin before exercise and I did not end up in pain repeatedly, though I do still have my underlying arthritis. I strongly suggest, pain relief sensitivity is more of an issues than the powers that be would have any of us believe.
I've read the health problems from protracted prescribed opiate use were not recognised twenty or more years ago and continued. I hope now the practice of prescribing is dramatically reduced and those who's lives are blighted are helped to overcome their use, along side removing illegal opiates etc from our streets. We do have some poor people over here who also have difficulties.
Living in the UK I look across the pond and see so many of you die as the result of gun crime. Why are automatic, war hardware still available over there. I know we, the UK have our own antisocial issues, gun crime is virtually none existent compared with the 1970's where there seemed to be bank raids each and every week. Here guns are licenced and following some instances of mental breakdown causing deaths, I remember two persons killed by one's partner, in the last 5 years, greater care is given when returning weaponry to the owner.7 -
I was prescribed opioids after my three joint replacement surgeries and also for ice pick migraines.
I don't have a genetic propensity for addiction, don't smoke, drink or do recreational drugs. I only took the drugs if the pain was obscenely over the top. I ended up with unused pills from every prescription.
I can't believe that I'm the only person on the planet with this experience with opioids.2 -
NorthCascades wrote: »I don't want to minimize the opiate issue, but for context more Americans die preventably every year in car accidents, and no one bats an eye or considers that a crisis. I'm sure this will be a wildly unpopular view.
There isn't any real context, it is false equivalency.
You're right, there's no way you can compare dead people with dead people.1 -
I was prescribed opioids after my three joint replacement surgeries and also for ice pick migraines.
I don't have a genetic propensity for addiction, don't smoke, drink or do recreational drugs. I only took the drugs if the pain was obscenely over the top. I ended up with unused pills from every prescription.
I can't believe that I'm the only person on the planet with this experience with opioids.
I think there's a difference between using prescribed painkillers *as directed* under these circumstances, and under or over using them. I was you until I learned how detrimental foregoing these meds could actually be.4 -
True, but more people drive than actually take opiates. And at least with driving, there are consequences if people get caught breaking the law. For people that abuse opiates, there's really no way to curtail that cause it's an individual thing.NorthCascades wrote: »I don't want to minimize the opiate issue, but for context more Americans die preventably every year in car accidents, and no one bats an eye or considers that a crisis. I'm sure this will be a wildly unpopular view.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Sometimes. If you want to make people really mad, do the speed limit, everybody behind you will lose their minds.
The other day, I saw the aftermath of a guy with a really important text who rear ended a police car. That's impressive!
I know that as a pedestrian and cyclist, my life is in far more danger from bad drivers than from pills. I spent a day in the ER and ICU and two weeks unable to walk several years ago because a dinner ran a red light.
I just can't shake the feeling that this is a lot of fear mongering, a mountain out of a mole hill. The fact that no one really cares about the (more) people dying in traffic confirms my suspicion, it's not about the deaths.2 -
I was prescribed opioids after my three joint replacement surgeries and also for ice pick migraines.
I don't have a genetic propensity for addiction, don't smoke, drink or do recreational drugs. I only took the drugs if the pain was obscenely over the top. I ended up with unused pills from every prescription.
I can't believe that I'm the only person on the planet with this experience with opioids.
You aren't the only one. I took opioids for about 2 months after abdominal surgery to remove a huge ovarian cyst. I was having excruciating muscle spasms for some reason, and that was the only thing that worked. I didn't have any of the common side effects, and I just naturally started to wean off of them at about the 2 month mark. People can take them and not become addicted.3 -
NorthCascades wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »I don't want to minimize the opiate issue, but for context more Americans die preventably every year in car accidents, and no one bats an eye or considers that a crisis. I'm sure this will be a wildly unpopular view.
There isn't any real context, it is false equivalency.
You're right, there's no way you can compare dead people with dead people.
Your response is overly simplistic and devoid of even a hint of intellect. Then again, there aren't high expectations for people who promote the use of logical fallacies.8 -
I was prescribed opioids after my three joint replacement surgeries and also for ice pick migraines.
I don't have a genetic propensity for addiction, don't smoke, drink or do recreational drugs. I only took the drugs if the pain was obscenely over the top. I ended up with unused pills from every prescription.
I can't believe that I'm the only person on the planet with this experience with opioids.
I can assure you, you're not the only one.2 -
NorthCascades wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »I don't want to minimize the opiate issue, but for context more Americans die preventably every year in car accidents, and no one bats an eye or considers that a crisis. I'm sure this will be a wildly unpopular view.
There isn't any real context, it is false equivalency.
You're right, there's no way you can compare dead people with dead people.
Your response is overly simplistic and devoid of even a hint of intellect. Then again, there aren't high expectations for people who promote the use of logical fallacies.
If you say so, it must be true. I've learned that random people on the internet who aren't capable of explaining why they believe something are always right.7 -
I was prescribed opioids after my three joint replacement surgeries and also for ice pick migraines.
I don't have a genetic propensity for addiction, don't smoke, drink or do recreational drugs. I only took the drugs if the pain was obscenely over the top. I ended up with unused pills from every prescription.
I can't believe that I'm the only person on the planet with this experience with opioids.
you aren't. i had some for when my autoimmune gets out of hand. right now i don't need any. but i have even had dirty looks for taking my nonopiod medications. there are times when i can get by with 1 pill of 1 medication a day. but there have been times where i was taking 3-4 medications a few times a day.
i take as directed. i do have a mildly addictive personality but i've not ever felt addicted to any of my medications in the past 6 years2 -
sidcorsini wrote: »Where are these going? What percentage of the American population is addicted, and how many mgs does that equal on average per person?
I don't know your agenda or motive for posting this discussion here. However, with all the lawsuits and publicity campaigns against the Sackler family, I'll play along.
When my wife was in pain, opioids were prescribed abundantly, used occasionally, and never addictive.
She couldn't stand the skin crawling sensation. Watching her suffer was no fun at all.
The opioid manufactured tried to help. The doctors pretended to help.
The medical schools charge too much for pill pushers.
One of the 10 or 20, I lost track, doctors we saw for her quickly offered ACDF surgery, which she agreed to, and he did it perfectly, producing a pain-free not-addicted new lady. His school did a good job of training him.
I'll readily agree that the U.S. has lost too many (1 is too many) citizens to opioid abuse. There's a problem there.
However, the country has a huge portion of population suffering real pain who can, in fact, use the strongest opioids occasionally, as needed, without becoming addicted.4 -
USA USA USA LOL.
In most countries I know of Opiates are given in a medical environment(a hospital, post operation for a short period of time). The problem as I see it in the states is 1) you have little or no public health care so a knee that needs to be replaced cant be, 2) you have little or no employment protection, so you can really ring in sick. Therefore, you got to work to pay the bills and you an operation aint available, so you take whatever to get you thru. And then you have a business writing the rules for doctors etc
Perhaps one might have difficulty understanding a system one has only heard about second or third hand.
The majority of Americans - sadly, far from all - do have health insurance, and can have knee replacements when needed. Normally, they're scheduled quite quickly, too, once need is confirmed. Given my age (60s), many of my friends have had knee (and hip, etc.) replacements, covered by insurance, and we're all just regular working-class people.
Paid sick time, while unforunately far from universal, is not non-existent either. Mine, in a normal sort of office job, covered all of my needs for leave related to bilateral mastectomies, chemotherapy spread over 6 months, and 6 further weeks of daily radiation therapy. (I did have opiates prescribed after the surgery for a short time, but it really wasn't all that painful, so I didn't take many.)
But the larger point is that pretty much neither of those things - unmet medical needs or lack of paid sick time - are strongly related to the "opiate crisis". To put a finer point on it, here - just as in most other countries - legal opiates are given in a medical context (hospital, short course post-operatively, as you say). While that becomes an on-ramp to addiction for a small percentage of the people who initially take opiates via a legal and medically-justified prescription, mostly this situation is about use of illegally-obtained drugs.
Some of those illegally-obtained drugs were diverted from the legal supply by various means, ranging from people stealing from granny's medicine chest; to dishonest manufacturers, doctors, distributors, or pharmacies (likely a small percentage of the field, but accounting for large amounts of drugs in some cases); to industrial-scale theft (hijacked shipments, and that sort of thing).
All of which is a problem, and a serious one, of course.
9 -
Just a reminder:
Please keep your posts civil, and mindful of community guidelines. Violations of those guidelines may result in warnings, an explanation of which can be found here.
And a personal note: If you are 'debating' by taking swipes at other posters, you've already lost the debate.
Happy Thursday folks,
Em
8 -
This issue originated prior to most pharmacovigilance systems in the 1990s where people vastly underestimated the impact of psychological addiction and the damage to receptor sites over long periods of time (>7 years).
I've posted this before, but Jonathan Hari's TED talk is a must see on this topic:
https://www.ted.com/talks/johann_hari_everything_you_think_you_know_about_addiction_is_wrong
I suspect the root cause of much of this is a lack of purpose. We're at the point where we must pursue a collective good and find a common purpose. Opioid (or any drug) use is simply a symptom of this.2 -
This issue originated prior to most pharmacovigilance systems in the 1990s where people vastly underestimated the impact of psychological addiction and the damage to receptor sites over long periods of time (>7 years).
I've posted this before, but Jonathan Hari's TED talk is a must see on this topic:
https://www.ted.com/talks/johann_hari_everything_you_think_you_know_about_addiction_is_wrong
I suspect the root cause of much of this is a lack of purpose. We're at the point where we must pursue a collective good and find a common purpose. Opioid (or any drug) use is simply a symptom of this.
I think the root cause is greedy manufacturers. That's in line with the info in the link I posted above.2 -
Good piece that supports the use of the term "crisis" if anyone is disputing that: https://www.bostonfed.org/publications/communities-and-banking/2016/fall/drugs-death-and-despair-in-new-england.aspx0
-
This issue originated prior to most pharmacovigilance systems in the 1990s where people vastly underestimated the impact of psychological addiction and the damage to receptor sites over long periods of time (>7 years).
I've posted this before, but Jonathan Hari's TED talk is a must see on this topic:
https://www.ted.com/talks/johann_hari_everything_you_think_you_know_about_addiction_is_wrong
I suspect the root cause of much of this is a lack of purpose. We're at the point where we must pursue a collective good and find a common purpose. Opioid (or any drug) use is simply a symptom of this.
I think the root cause is greedy manufacturers. That's in line with the info in the link I posted above.
Applying Five Why principles - does this lead to another cause?
Manufacturers are simply fulfilling a desire for product. This is a symptom of a larger cause.
The DEA has known about this for decades as each shipment of schedule II pharmaceuticals is done under their purview. This is a CYA measure trying to pass blame onto another entity. Like one criminal ratting a colleague out for a lighter sentence. Are there corrupt manufacturers? Absolutely and they should be charged to the limit of the law. The only reason government took action is because public opinion shifted from "We want our drugs" to "Greedy manufacturers" - this is based upon emotion and not logic.
What happened when the DEA began increasing the enforcement of narcotics? This resulted in an increase in heroin sales/use.
https://www.cdc.gov/drugoverdose/data/heroin.html0 -
This issue originated prior to most pharmacovigilance systems in the 1990s where people vastly underestimated the impact of psychological addiction and the damage to receptor sites over long periods of time (>7 years).
I've posted this before, but Jonathan Hari's TED talk is a must see on this topic:
https://www.ted.com/talks/johann_hari_everything_you_think_you_know_about_addiction_is_wrong
I suspect the root cause of much of this is a lack of purpose. We're at the point where we must pursue a collective good and find a common purpose. Opioid (or any drug) use is simply a symptom of this.
I think the root cause is greedy manufacturers. That's in line with the info in the link I posted above.
Applying Five Why principles - does this lead to another cause?
Manufacturers are simply fulfilling a desire for product. This is a symptom of a larger cause.
The DEA has known about this for decades as each shipment of schedule II pharmaceuticals is done under their purview. This is a CYA measure trying to pass blame onto another entity. Like one criminal ratting a colleague out for a lighter sentence. Are there corrupt manufacturers? Absolutely and they should be charged to the limit of the law. The only reason government took action is because public opinion shifted from "We want our drugs" to "Greedy manufacturers" - this is based upon emotion and not logic.
What happened when the DEA began increasing the enforcement of narcotics? This resulted in an increase in heroin sales/use.
https://www.cdc.gov/drugoverdose/data/heroin.html
Wouldn't you agree that it's difficult to apply logic where all of the facts are not present at the time the decision is made?
From above:
https://www.biospace.com/article/release-of-federal-database-reveals-76-billion-opioid-pills-were-sold-in-the-u-s-from-2006-2012/The DEA database also revealed some surprising information about what the companies knew about the number of pills entering the market. The database provided information about the exact number of pills being dispensed, when the companies were made aware of the volume of pills being dispensed, as well as year by year and town by town information, the Post said. The evidence seems rather damning particularly as these companies are the subject of thousands of lawsuits from state and local governments. The Post noted that the companies “allowed the drugs to reach the streets of communities large and small, despite persistent red flags that those pills were being sold in apparent violation of federal law and diverted to the black market.”
The information in the database had long been held secret. However, a judicial order prompted the release of data up to 2013. U.S. District Judge Dan Polster said there is no basis for shielding older data, the Tribune Chronicle reported.
If the companies knew, yet kept that info secret and kept on pumping out pills....the math is rather suggestive to me.
I do understand your point, but the opioid crisis wouldn't be what it is today if manufacturers cut their quota to meet actual needs as opposed to profit margins. In my humble opinion of course...1 -
This issue originated prior to most pharmacovigilance systems in the 1990s where people vastly underestimated the impact of psychological addiction and the damage to receptor sites over long periods of time (>7 years).
I've posted this before, but Jonathan Hari's TED talk is a must see on this topic:
https://www.ted.com/talks/johann_hari_everything_you_think_you_know_about_addiction_is_wrong
I suspect the root cause of much of this is a lack of purpose. We're at the point where we must pursue a collective good and find a common purpose. Opioid (or any drug) use is simply a symptom of this.
I think the root cause is greedy manufacturers. That's in line with the info in the link I posted above.
Applying Five Why principles - does this lead to another cause?
Manufacturers are simply fulfilling a desire for product. This is a symptom of a larger cause.
The DEA has known about this for decades as each shipment of schedule II pharmaceuticals is done under their purview. This is a CYA measure trying to pass blame onto another entity. Like one criminal ratting a colleague out for a lighter sentence. Are there corrupt manufacturers? Absolutely and they should be charged to the limit of the law. The only reason government took action is because public opinion shifted from "We want our drugs" to "Greedy manufacturers" - this is based upon emotion and not logic.
What happened when the DEA began increasing the enforcement of narcotics? This resulted in an increase in heroin sales/use.
https://www.cdc.gov/drugoverdose/data/heroin.html
Wouldn't you agree that it's difficult to apply logic where all of the facts are not present at the time the decision is made?
From above:
https://www.biospace.com/article/release-of-federal-database-reveals-76-billion-opioid-pills-were-sold-in-the-u-s-from-2006-2012/The DEA database also revealed some surprising information about what the companies knew about the number of pills entering the market. The database provided information about the exact number of pills being dispensed, when the companies were made aware of the volume of pills being dispensed, as well as year by year and town by town information, the Post said. The evidence seems rather damning particularly as these companies are the subject of thousands of lawsuits from state and local governments. The Post noted that the companies “allowed the drugs to reach the streets of communities large and small, despite persistent red flags that those pills were being sold in apparent violation of federal law and diverted to the black market.”
The information in the database had long been held secret. However, a judicial order prompted the release of data up to 2013. U.S. District Judge Dan Polster said there is no basis for shielding older data, the Tribune Chronicle reported.
If the companies knew, yet kept that info secret and kept on pumping out pills....the math is rather suggestive to me.
I do understand your point, but the opioid crisis wouldn't be what it is today if manufacturers cut their quota to meet actual needs as opposed to profit margins. In my humble opinion of course...
The language used in these articles is purposefully misleading (disinformation) and absolves the three letter agencies of all responsibility - despite having complete oversight of sales and distribution.
The DEA and FDA knew this information - have always known as manufacturing of schedule II product requires a monthly reconciliation. Additionally reconciliation is required at every point along the distribution chain. Nothing was kept secret, other than to the public.
If you're going to place the blame on these manufacturers, then you must also place equal or greater blame on the government as they approved every transaction.
0
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 391.3K Introduce Yourself
- 43.4K Getting Started
- 259.7K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.6K Food and Nutrition
- 47.3K Recipes
- 232.3K Fitness and Exercise
- 387 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.4K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.5K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 152.7K Motivation and Support
- 7.8K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.4K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.2K MyFitnessPal Information
- 22 News and Announcements
- 897 Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.2K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions