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Please help with this argument- Intermittent fasting related

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  • lynn_glenmontlynn_glenmont Posts: 7,235Member Member Posts: 7,235Member Member
    PWHF wrote: »
    In the 'guess your age thread' I'm being pegged as 8-12 years younger than I am. Been doing IF for 2.5 years now.

    63?
  • magnusthenerdmagnusthenerd Posts: 867Member Member Posts: 867Member Member
    Annie_01 wrote: »
    SCoil123 wrote: »
    sgt1372 wrote: »
    It"'s funny to me how the people who believe that IF is only a way of scheduling when you eat and who believe that weight loss is just about CICO are so dismissive of the possibity of any other benefits from IF than just weight loss.

    It's seems that the argument is that, since there is no scientifically acceptable proof that there are other benefits, there can't possibly be any other benefits, which is pure nonsense. There can be benefits that just haven't been proven yet

    I know that since I started doing IF over 3 months ago that I have been better able to control my wt, even when I haven't strictly followed my IF schedule and have not strictly limited my cal intake, which contradicts the premise that it's only about scheduling and CICO

    I'm not trying to make the case that there actually are other benefits to IF but to dismiss any possibilty that there "may" be other benefits is shortsighted and bigoted

    Agreed. Every person who dismisses the current studies because most were conducted on rodents or the human sample size was small is doing exactly this. If it were cancer research and a drug was found that eliminated tumors in mice within weeks wouldn’t most people view that as incredibly promising and be excited to see more human trails happen ASAP? I think so

    Every time I post any of the confirmed studies the majority of responses on MFP (including in this thread) dismiss them as insufficient and basically invalid with no mention of the promise found or need to look into it more. It’s ridiculous to me.

    No one has said IF is best for everyone. It isn’t magic. And it doesn’t cost anyone anything to try and see if they experience additional benefits.

    I personally stopped doing IF when I started running early morning. Waiting too long to eat after interfered with my recovery. When I did IF it was an easy way for my to stay in my calories and I found that I got better sleep when I did IF. I experienced none of the health benefits being explored in the studies I posted in this thread - I don’t believe that proves they don’t exist for anyone though. I think, like anything, more research is needed and NOTHING will work for everyone universally the same.

    That's not true. That there's no monetary cost for IF doesn't mean there is no cost. You yourself have indicated it was costing you recovery.
    If someone said to you "look, here's thing X. I have no research that it works, but I like to feel it does, you should try it - oh btw it might screw up your exercise routine and blow your whole training week this week", how would you feel about them suggesting it and saying "oh, and best part it costs nothing!"?
    Beyond training, I have listened to dieticians that feel IF can lead people towards binge behaviors.

    To be fair though isn't that true of anyway of eating? Weighing and calorie counting can also cause eating disorders. My son joined this site a few years ago...tried calorie counting. He ended up under eating and then binging which he had never done before. He had to quit. He also can not do IF/TRE because he would spend his time waiting to eat and then eat during the whole window. The only thing that seems to work for him is portion control and staying active.
    No, not while being fair. Asking it "to be fair" gives a connotation they're equally likely. A person could be on any way of eating and end up developing an eating disorder. That's different than saying it is a behavior that leads to it. I've listened to dietitians actually discuss concerns with the actual eating patterns of IF being a recreation of bingeing cycles. There is a type of binge called an objective binge - while a subjective binge is about feelings, objective binges have requirements about time and calories. Almost anyone practicing OMAD meets the calories and time window for an objective binge incident.
  • SCoil123SCoil123 Posts: 2,086Member Member Posts: 2,086Member Member
    SCoil123 wrote: »
    sgt1372 wrote: »
    It"'s funny to me how the people who believe that IF is only a way of scheduling when you eat and who believe that weight loss is just about CICO are so dismissive of the possibity of any other benefits from IF than just weight loss.

    It's seems that the argument is that, since there is no scientifically acceptable proof that there are other benefits, there can't possibly be any other benefits, which is pure nonsense. There can be benefits that just haven't been proven yet

    I know that since I started doing IF over 3 months ago that I have been better able to control my wt, even when I haven't strictly followed my IF schedule and have not strictly limited my cal intake, which contradicts the premise that it's only about scheduling and CICO

    I'm not trying to make the case that there actually are other benefits to IF but to dismiss any possibilty that there "may" be other benefits is shortsighted and bigoted

    Agreed. Every person who dismisses the current studies because most were conducted on rodents or the human sample size was small is doing exactly this. If it were cancer research and a drug was found that eliminated tumors in mice within weeks wouldn’t most people view that as incredibly promising and be excited to see more human trails happen ASAP? I think so

    Every time I post any of the confirmed studies the majority of responses on MFP (including in this thread) dismiss them as insufficient and basically invalid with no mention of the promise found or need to look into it more. It’s ridiculous to me.

    No one has said IF is best for everyone. It isn’t magic. And it doesn’t cost anyone anything to try and see if they experience additional benefits.

    I personally stopped doing IF when I started running early morning. Waiting too long to eat after interfered with my recovery. When I did IF it was an easy way for my to stay in my calories and I found that I got better sleep when I did IF. I experienced none of the health benefits being explored in the studies I posted in this thread - I don’t believe that proves they don’t exist for anyone though. I think, like anything, more research is needed and NOTHING will work for everyone universally the same.

    That's not true. That there's no monetary cost for IF doesn't mean there is no cost. You yourself have indicated it was costing you recovery.
    If someone said to you "look, here's thing X. I have no research that it works, but I like to feel it does, you should try it - oh btw it might screw up your exercise routine and blow your whole training week this week", how would you feel about them suggesting it and saying "oh, and best part it costs nothing!"?
    Beyond training, I have listened to dieticians that feel IF can lead people towards binge behaviors.

    It wasn’t costing me anything lol. It stopped being a suitable plan based on the changes to my workout schedule. I didn’t force myself to stick to a plan that was no longer working and jeapordize my fitness progress as you implied. I stopped IF. No cost.

    To your other points -
    1. There is research and it is mostly promising and positive but it isn’t enough to be conclusive
    2. IF does not have to ruin anyone’s training schedule. Most can workout around their eating window, does your training schedule get ruined if you skip a meal? It stopped working for me personally because I run in the morning and do another workout most evenings, but that’s just me personally and I did not continue the plan at that point so I find the question silly and overly argumentative
    3. I’m a recovering bulimic. When I did IF it in no way triggered my past disordered thinking.


    It’s not for you. That’s great! But to be so determined to prove it is for no one is wrong.
  • SCoil123SCoil123 Posts: 2,086Member Member Posts: 2,086Member Member
    SCoil123 wrote: »
    sgt1372 wrote: »
    It"'s funny to me how the people who believe that IF is only a way of scheduling when you eat and who believe that weight loss is just about CICO are so dismissive of the possibity of any other benefits from IF than just weight loss.

    It's seems that the argument is that, since there is no scientifically acceptable proof that there are other benefits, there can't possibly be any other benefits, which is pure nonsense. There can be benefits that just haven't been proven yet

    I know that since I started doing IF over 3 months ago that I have been better able to control my wt, even when I haven't strictly followed my IF schedule and have not strictly limited my cal intake, which contradicts the premise that it's only about scheduling and CICO

    I'm not trying to make the case that there actually are other benefits to IF but to dismiss any possibilty that there "may" be other benefits is shortsighted and bigoted

    Agreed. Every person who dismisses the current studies because most were conducted on rodents or the human sample size was small is doing exactly this. If it were cancer research and a drug was found that eliminated tumors in mice within weeks wouldn’t most people view that as incredibly promising and be excited to see more human trails happen ASAP? I think so

    Every time I post any of the confirmed studies the majority of responses on MFP (including in this thread) dismiss them as insufficient and basically invalid with no mention of the promise found or need to look into it more. It’s ridiculous to me.

    No one has said IF is best for everyone. It isn’t magic. And it doesn’t cost anyone anything to try and see if they experience additional benefits.

    I personally stopped doing IF when I started running early morning. Waiting too long to eat after interfered with my recovery. When I did IF it was an easy way for my to stay in my calories and I found that I got better sleep when I did IF. I experienced none of the health benefits being explored in the studies I posted in this thread - I don’t believe that proves they don’t exist for anyone though. I think, like anything, more research is needed and NOTHING will work for everyone universally the same.
    Most people might - most people are also ignorant of how inapplicable rodent research is - and it is less applicable when it comes to diet than cancer.
    A lot of people here on MFP, particularly in the debate section understand this about rodent studies. If you posted cancer cure research on rats here, it would probably get some "ah, interesting", not "well we have a cure".

    The “ah, interesting” and maybe a “we should study this more” was exactly the response I had hoped for and expected from this community when I posted the IF study where the men showed some health improvements despite zero change in weight. No one was looking for a “we found a cure” or “it’s magic” response.
  • SCoil123SCoil123 Posts: 2,086Member Member Posts: 2,086Member Member
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    SCoil123 wrote: »
    SCoil123 wrote: »
    sgt1372 wrote: »
    It"'s funny to me how the people who believe that IF is only a way of scheduling when you eat and who believe that weight loss is just about CICO are so dismissive of the possibity of any other benefits from IF than just weight loss.

    It's seems that the argument is that, since there is no scientifically acceptable proof that there are other benefits, there can't possibly be any other benefits, which is pure nonsense. There can be benefits that just haven't been proven yet

    I know that since I started doing IF over 3 months ago that I have been better able to control my wt, even when I haven't strictly followed my IF schedule and have not strictly limited my cal intake, which contradicts the premise that it's only about scheduling and CICO

    I'm not trying to make the case that there actually are other benefits to IF but to dismiss any possibilty that there "may" be other benefits is shortsighted and bigoted

    Agreed. Every person who dismisses the current studies because most were conducted on rodents or the human sample size was small is doing exactly this. If it were cancer research and a drug was found that eliminated tumors in mice within weeks wouldn’t most people view that as incredibly promising and be excited to see more human trails happen ASAP? I think so

    Every time I post any of the confirmed studies the majority of responses on MFP (including in this thread) dismiss them as insufficient and basically invalid with no mention of the promise found or need to look into it more. It’s ridiculous to me.

    No one has said IF is best for everyone. It isn’t magic. And it doesn’t cost anyone anything to try and see if they experience additional benefits.

    I personally stopped doing IF when I started running early morning. Waiting too long to eat after interfered with my recovery. When I did IF it was an easy way for my to stay in my calories and I found that I got better sleep when I did IF. I experienced none of the health benefits being explored in the studies I posted in this thread - I don’t believe that proves they don’t exist for anyone though. I think, like anything, more research is needed and NOTHING will work for everyone universally the same.

    That's not true. That there's no monetary cost for IF doesn't mean there is no cost. You yourself have indicated it was costing you recovery.
    If someone said to you "look, here's thing X. I have no research that it works, but I like to feel it does, you should try it - oh btw it might screw up your exercise routine and blow your whole training week this week", how would you feel about them suggesting it and saying "oh, and best part it costs nothing!"?
    Beyond training, I have listened to dieticians that feel IF can lead people towards binge behaviors.

    It wasn’t costing me anything lol. It stopped being a suitable plan based on the changes to my workout schedule. I didn’t force myself to stick to a plan that was no longer working and jeapordize my fitness progress as you implied. I stopped IF. No cost.

    That there was no cost to you doesn't mean that being told it's very important or better to a significant amount to use IF vs other, easier schedules is not problematic for others. And I disagree that no one was claiming it's best for everyone. I recall many comments in the various threads to that effect, as well as ones suggesting a moral virtue to that way of eating vs. others, or people claiming health detriments from other ways of eating.

    Re:
    1. There is research and it is mostly promising and positive but it isn’t enough to be conclusive

    The research I've seen is all over the place. Some shows no positive effects, some shows there may be some (but it might differ depending on the people involved), some show negative effects from some ways of doing it (i.e., eating most calories late), some show that the benefits are likely associated with circadian rhythms, so different from how most think of it, etc. It's possible there may prove to be some effects beyond it making it easier for some to limit cals, but I think we are far from there, and I seriously doubt that the effects will turn out to be such that they apply to all or outweigh using the schedule that you find works best with your lifestyle. I'm in favor of research, though, just not premature claims about what it shows.
    2. IF does not have to ruin anyone’s training schedule. Most can workout around their eating window, does your training schedule get ruined if you skip a meal? It stopped working for me personally because I run in the morning and do another workout most evenings, but that’s just me personally and I did not continue the plan at that point so I find the question silly and overly argumentative

    I feel better and am less likely to overeat later if I eat breakfast after a morning run. From my reading of the research, the most promising form of IF is eating earlier in the day -- skipping dinner rather than breakfast -- so most days my workout schedule wouldn't be a problem (I sometimes swim after work and it would be then). However, dinner is the meal I most enjoy cooking and eating at home and usually the meal I eat with others, and sacrificing it for a bigger (but more rushed) breakfast and a bigger lunch eaten alone at work wouldn't work for me at all. Obviously this doesn't apply to all, but it's a real consideration for many.
    3. I’m a recovering bulimic. When I did IF it in no way triggered my past disordered thinking.

    That doesn't mean it wouldn't for others.
    It’s not for you. That’s great! But to be so determined to prove it is for no one is wrong.

    I haven't seen anyone saying it's not for anyone. I have seen people challenging the notion that it's the best way of eating, period, or that it's more healthy in general or that it's ideal for all.

    I probably do it around 2-3 days a week (not on purpose, just because that fits my schedule on those days). I don't do the pattern that seems most promising from the research, I skip breakfast (easy for me if I don't run in the morning), workout later in the day, and have lunch and an earlier than normal dinner (often a larger lunch or dinner). I have my own preferred schedule on other days (3 meals, no snacking) and I do find the schedule I choose makes it easier or harder for me, so I can see how IF would make it easier (or in some cases harder) for others. So I think trying it is great if it seems appealing and I believe those who claim it helped them. I don't believe it's something that should be promoted as the best way for all or inherently better than other ways of eating, or something all need to try to do if they can, etc. And again, that's what I think the disagreements typically are about on these threads.

    The person I responded to in that reply was saying it was dangerous and suggesting people should not do it - hence not for anyone.
  • Annie_01Annie_01 Posts: 3,115Member Member Posts: 3,115Member Member
    Annie_01 wrote: »
    SCoil123 wrote: »
    sgt1372 wrote: »
    It"'s funny to me how the people who believe that IF is only a way of scheduling when you eat and who believe that weight loss is just about CICO are so dismissive of the possibity of any other benefits from IF than just weight loss.

    It's seems that the argument is that, since there is no scientifically acceptable proof that there are other benefits, there can't possibly be any other benefits, which is pure nonsense. There can be benefits that just haven't been proven yet

    I know that since I started doing IF over 3 months ago that I have been better able to control my wt, even when I haven't strictly followed my IF schedule and have not strictly limited my cal intake, which contradicts the premise that it's only about scheduling and CICO

    I'm not trying to make the case that there actually are other benefits to IF but to dismiss any possibilty that there "may" be other benefits is shortsighted and bigoted

    Agreed. Every person who dismisses the current studies because most were conducted on rodents or the human sample size was small is doing exactly this. If it were cancer research and a drug was found that eliminated tumors in mice within weeks wouldn’t most people view that as incredibly promising and be excited to see more human trails happen ASAP? I think so

    Every time I post any of the confirmed studies the majority of responses on MFP (including in this thread) dismiss them as insufficient and basically invalid with no mention of the promise found or need to look into it more. It’s ridiculous to me.

    No one has said IF is best for everyone. It isn’t magic. And it doesn’t cost anyone anything to try and see if they experience additional benefits.

    I personally stopped doing IF when I started running early morning. Waiting too long to eat after interfered with my recovery. When I did IF it was an easy way for my to stay in my calories and I found that I got better sleep when I did IF. I experienced none of the health benefits being explored in the studies I posted in this thread - I don’t believe that proves they don’t exist for anyone though. I think, like anything, more research is needed and NOTHING will work for everyone universally the same.

    That's not true. That there's no monetary cost for IF doesn't mean there is no cost. You yourself have indicated it was costing you recovery.
    If someone said to you "look, here's thing X. I have no research that it works, but I like to feel it does, you should try it - oh btw it might screw up your exercise routine and blow your whole training week this week", how would you feel about them suggesting it and saying "oh, and best part it costs nothing!"?
    Beyond training, I have listened to dieticians that feel IF can lead people towards binge behaviors.

    To be fair though isn't that true of anyway of eating? Weighing and calorie counting can also cause eating disorders. My son joined this site a few years ago...tried calorie counting. He ended up under eating and then binging which he had never done before. He had to quit. He also can not do IF/TRE because he would spend his time waiting to eat and then eat during the whole window. The only thing that seems to work for him is portion control and staying active.
    No, not while being fair. Asking it "to be fair" gives a connotation they're equally likely. A person could be on any way of eating and end up developing an eating disorder. That's different than saying it is a behavior that leads to it. I've listened to dietitians actually discuss concerns with the actual eating patterns of IF being a recreation of bingeing cycles. There is a type of binge called an objective binge - while a subjective binge is about feelings, objective binges have requirements about time and calories. Almost anyone practicing OMAD meets the calories and time window for an objective binge incident.

    Okay...not a problem...

  • lemurcat2lemurcat2 Posts: 3,569Member Member Posts: 3,569Member Member
    SCoil123 wrote: »
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    SCoil123 wrote: »
    SCoil123 wrote: »
    sgt1372 wrote: »
    It"'s funny to me how the people who believe that IF is only a way of scheduling when you eat and who believe that weight loss is just about CICO are so dismissive of the possibity of any other benefits from IF than just weight loss.

    It's seems that the argument is that, since there is no scientifically acceptable proof that there are other benefits, there can't possibly be any other benefits, which is pure nonsense. There can be benefits that just haven't been proven yet

    I know that since I started doing IF over 3 months ago that I have been better able to control my wt, even when I haven't strictly followed my IF schedule and have not strictly limited my cal intake, which contradicts the premise that it's only about scheduling and CICO

    I'm not trying to make the case that there actually are other benefits to IF but to dismiss any possibilty that there "may" be other benefits is shortsighted and bigoted

    Agreed. Every person who dismisses the current studies because most were conducted on rodents or the human sample size was small is doing exactly this. If it were cancer research and a drug was found that eliminated tumors in mice within weeks wouldn’t most people view that as incredibly promising and be excited to see more human trails happen ASAP? I think so

    Every time I post any of the confirmed studies the majority of responses on MFP (including in this thread) dismiss them as insufficient and basically invalid with no mention of the promise found or need to look into it more. It’s ridiculous to me.

    No one has said IF is best for everyone. It isn’t magic. And it doesn’t cost anyone anything to try and see if they experience additional benefits.

    I personally stopped doing IF when I started running early morning. Waiting too long to eat after interfered with my recovery. When I did IF it was an easy way for my to stay in my calories and I found that I got better sleep when I did IF. I experienced none of the health benefits being explored in the studies I posted in this thread - I don’t believe that proves they don’t exist for anyone though. I think, like anything, more research is needed and NOTHING will work for everyone universally the same.

    That's not true. That there's no monetary cost for IF doesn't mean there is no cost. You yourself have indicated it was costing you recovery.
    If someone said to you "look, here's thing X. I have no research that it works, but I like to feel it does, you should try it - oh btw it might screw up your exercise routine and blow your whole training week this week", how would you feel about them suggesting it and saying "oh, and best part it costs nothing!"?
    Beyond training, I have listened to dieticians that feel IF can lead people towards binge behaviors.

    It wasn’t costing me anything lol. It stopped being a suitable plan based on the changes to my workout schedule. I didn’t force myself to stick to a plan that was no longer working and jeapordize my fitness progress as you implied. I stopped IF. No cost.

    That there was no cost to you doesn't mean that being told it's very important or better to a significant amount to use IF vs other, easier schedules is not problematic for others. And I disagree that no one was claiming it's best for everyone. I recall many comments in the various threads to that effect, as well as ones suggesting a moral virtue to that way of eating vs. others, or people claiming health detriments from other ways of eating.

    Re:
    1. There is research and it is mostly promising and positive but it isn’t enough to be conclusive

    The research I've seen is all over the place. Some shows no positive effects, some shows there may be some (but it might differ depending on the people involved), some show negative effects from some ways of doing it (i.e., eating most calories late), some show that the benefits are likely associated with circadian rhythms, so different from how most think of it, etc. It's possible there may prove to be some effects beyond it making it easier for some to limit cals, but I think we are far from there, and I seriously doubt that the effects will turn out to be such that they apply to all or outweigh using the schedule that you find works best with your lifestyle. I'm in favor of research, though, just not premature claims about what it shows.
    2. IF does not have to ruin anyone’s training schedule. Most can workout around their eating window, does your training schedule get ruined if you skip a meal? It stopped working for me personally because I run in the morning and do another workout most evenings, but that’s just me personally and I did not continue the plan at that point so I find the question silly and overly argumentative

    I feel better and am less likely to overeat later if I eat breakfast after a morning run. From my reading of the research, the most promising form of IF is eating earlier in the day -- skipping dinner rather than breakfast -- so most days my workout schedule wouldn't be a problem (I sometimes swim after work and it would be then). However, dinner is the meal I most enjoy cooking and eating at home and usually the meal I eat with others, and sacrificing it for a bigger (but more rushed) breakfast and a bigger lunch eaten alone at work wouldn't work for me at all. Obviously this doesn't apply to all, but it's a real consideration for many.
    3. I’m a recovering bulimic. When I did IF it in no way triggered my past disordered thinking.

    That doesn't mean it wouldn't for others.
    It’s not for you. That’s great! But to be so determined to prove it is for no one is wrong.

    I haven't seen anyone saying it's not for anyone. I have seen people challenging the notion that it's the best way of eating, period, or that it's more healthy in general or that it's ideal for all.

    I probably do it around 2-3 days a week (not on purpose, just because that fits my schedule on those days). I don't do the pattern that seems most promising from the research, I skip breakfast (easy for me if I don't run in the morning), workout later in the day, and have lunch and an earlier than normal dinner (often a larger lunch or dinner). I have my own preferred schedule on other days (3 meals, no snacking) and I do find the schedule I choose makes it easier or harder for me, so I can see how IF would make it easier (or in some cases harder) for others. So I think trying it is great if it seems appealing and I believe those who claim it helped them. I don't believe it's something that should be promoted as the best way for all or inherently better than other ways of eating, or something all need to try to do if they can, etc. And again, that's what I think the disagreements typically are about on these threads.

    The person I responded to in that reply was saying it was dangerous and suggesting people should not do it - hence not for anyone.

    I've been reading that poster on this topic for a while now, and I don't think that's what he believes. Here, what he said is that there can be costs for trying it for some. And just as some claim there is some research that indicates positive effects (like I said, I agree, but some indicates no positive effects and some indicates negative effects too, it's all over the place and often depends on the specifics of the people involved and the type of IF), he noted that some dieticians are concerned that IF can lead people [presumably some people] towards binge behaviors."

    So I don't think he was saying it is not for anyone. In fact, from other posts I'm positive it wasn't.
  • Go_DeskerciseGo_Deskercise Posts: 808Member Member Posts: 808Member Member
    J72FIT wrote: »
    Seven pages over wether or not to eat breakfast...

    These are the important questions in life :D
  • SCoil123SCoil123 Posts: 2,086Member Member Posts: 2,086Member Member
    SCoil123 wrote: »
    SCoil123 wrote: »
    sgt1372 wrote: »
    It"'s funny to me how the people who believe that IF is only a way of scheduling when you eat and who believe that weight loss is just about CICO are so dismissive of the possibity of any other benefits from IF than just weight loss.

    It's seems that the argument is that, since there is no scientifically acceptable proof that there are other benefits, there can't possibly be any other benefits, which is pure nonsense. There can be benefits that just haven't been proven yet

    I know that since I started doing IF over 3 months ago that I have been better able to control my wt, even when I haven't strictly followed my IF schedule and have not strictly limited my cal intake, which contradicts the premise that it's only about scheduling and CICO

    I'm not trying to make the case that there actually are other benefits to IF but to dismiss any possibilty that there "may" be other benefits is shortsighted and bigoted

    Agreed. Every person who dismisses the current studies because most were conducted on rodents or the human sample size was small is doing exactly this. If it were cancer research and a drug was found that eliminated tumors in mice within weeks wouldn’t most people view that as incredibly promising and be excited to see more human trails happen ASAP? I think so

    Every time I post any of the confirmed studies the majority of responses on MFP (including in this thread) dismiss them as insufficient and basically invalid with no mention of the promise found or need to look into it more. It’s ridiculous to me.

    No one has said IF is best for everyone. It isn’t magic. And it doesn’t cost anyone anything to try and see if they experience additional benefits.

    I personally stopped doing IF when I started running early morning. Waiting too long to eat after interfered with my recovery. When I did IF it was an easy way for my to stay in my calories and I found that I got better sleep when I did IF. I experienced none of the health benefits being explored in the studies I posted in this thread - I don’t believe that proves they don’t exist for anyone though. I think, like anything, more research is needed and NOTHING will work for everyone universally the same.

    That's not true. That there's no monetary cost for IF doesn't mean there is no cost. You yourself have indicated it was costing you recovery.
    If someone said to you "look, here's thing X. I have no research that it works, but I like to feel it does, you should try it - oh btw it might screw up your exercise routine and blow your whole training week this week", how would you feel about them suggesting it and saying "oh, and best part it costs nothing!"?
    Beyond training, I have listened to dieticians that feel IF can lead people towards binge behaviors.

    It wasn’t costing me anything lol. It stopped being a suitable plan based on the changes to my workout schedule. I didn’t force myself to stick to a plan that was no longer working and jeapordize my fitness progress as you implied. I stopped IF. No cost.

    To your other points -
    1. There is research and it is mostly promising and positive but it isn’t enough to be conclusive
    2. IF does not have to ruin anyone’s training schedule. Most can workout around their eating window, does your training schedule get ruined if you skip a meal? It stopped working for me personally because I run in the morning and do another workout most evenings, but that’s just me personally and I did not continue the plan at that point so I find the question silly and overly argumentative
    3. I’m a recovering bulimic. When I did IF it in no way triggered my past disordered thinking.


    It’s not for you. That’s great! But to be so determined to prove it is for no one is wrong.

    You don't value your performance? If you value it and IF was making it worse, that means IF had a cost to you. If you changed your workout schedule because it was better, you are signalling that it was costing you something. IF was a trade-off you couldn't afford.

    To the enumerated points (thank, I tend to like that format)
    1. I think you missed my earlier point. When two out of three studies show no effect, that's not promising, that's actually likely to be a statistical anomaly, particularly given the bias against publishing negative results in science.
    2. It would really depend on the schedule. Some people train multiple sessions a day, best spaced far apart because of competing modalities such as people doing endurance and strength/hypertrophy training. IF would obviously not work well with such schedules. Again, that one could make it work with a schedule doesn't mean the act of making it work is not a cost. I get the impression that you just want to narrow the concept of cost to something more like monetary to be "silly and overly argumentative". I'm not saying costs mean something isn't worth paying the cost for, so you don't need to fight the term cost being applied. Calorie-counting has a cost. Training has a cost.
    3. Okay, good for you, and? I know of heroin addicts that take heroin again without triggering addiction spirals. I don't think it follows taking heroin isn't a problematic behavior for people with or even without a history of heroin use.

    I don't even know where you came up with I'm determined to prove IF is wrong every one. Look over the thread, find one spot where I said that, or something that could paraphrase to that. I also doubt you could find me ever saying there shouldn't be more research on it. I don't think you'll ever find me in a position disagreeing with the idea of more research - science is never done, and I do enjoy science. I have dozens of studies I'd like to see happen somewhere out in diet and exercise physiology research. You know what is really "overly argumentative"? Assigning people positions they don't hold. I use to skip breakfast. Heck, when I started losing weight, I alternate day fasted as an eating pattern. In terms of did I lose weight, yes it was working for me.

    I think if you look through the board there should be at least one if not multiple posts where I've said it can be fine as a psychological method for some people to generate a calorie deficit.
    I take great umbrage at people over selling it. Not so much on this board, but I personally have a certain moral disgust for people like Dr. Fung who are profiting off lying and overselling to people.
    SCoil123 wrote: »
    SCoil123 wrote: »
    sgt1372 wrote: »
    It"'s funny to me how the people who believe that IF is only a way of scheduling when you eat and who believe that weight loss is just about CICO are so dismissive of the possibity of any other benefits from IF than just weight loss.

    It's seems that the argument is that, since there is no scientifically acceptable proof that there are other benefits, there can't possibly be any other benefits, which is pure nonsense. There can be benefits that just haven't been proven yet

    I know that since I started doing IF over 3 months ago that I have been better able to control my wt, even when I haven't strictly followed my IF schedule and have not strictly limited my cal intake, which contradicts the premise that it's only about scheduling and CICO

    I'm not trying to make the case that there actually are other benefits to IF but to dismiss any possibilty that there "may" be other benefits is shortsighted and bigoted

    Agreed. Every person who dismisses the current studies because most were conducted on rodents or the human sample size was small is doing exactly this. If it were cancer research and a drug was found that eliminated tumors in mice within weeks wouldn’t most people view that as incredibly promising and be excited to see more human trails happen ASAP? I think so

    Every time I post any of the confirmed studies the majority of responses on MFP (including in this thread) dismiss them as insufficient and basically invalid with no mention of the promise found or need to look into it more. It’s ridiculous to me.

    No one has said IF is best for everyone. It isn’t magic. And it doesn’t cost anyone anything to try and see if they experience additional benefits.

    I personally stopped doing IF when I started running early morning. Waiting too long to eat after interfered with my recovery. When I did IF it was an easy way for my to stay in my calories and I found that I got better sleep when I did IF. I experienced none of the health benefits being explored in the studies I posted in this thread - I don’t believe that proves they don’t exist for anyone though. I think, like anything, more research is needed and NOTHING will work for everyone universally the same.
    Most people might - most people are also ignorant of how inapplicable rodent research is - and it is less applicable when it comes to diet than cancer.
    A lot of people here on MFP, particularly in the debate section understand this about rodent studies. If you posted cancer cure research on rats here, it would probably get some "ah, interesting", not "well we have a cure".

    The “ah, interesting” and maybe a “we should study this more” was exactly the response I had hoped for and expected from this community when I posted the IF study where the men showed some health improvements despite zero change in weight. No one was looking for a “we found a cure” or “it’s magic” response.

    See my previous stance on research of all kinds.

    Case in point, take a look at this comment in a prior thread on IF. I think you'll have a more productive discussion with me viewing me as an interlocutor interested in truth, over a debate - I take debate more for moral issues. I think debating empirical facts with a vested opinion is silly and good way to end up holding false beliefs. I try to hold less and less wrong beliefs:
    https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/comment/44042940/#Comment_44042940

    It in no way affected my performance. If you had read my posts completely you’d know that. When I switched my training and got more hungry I stopped IF.

    I’m done with this thread now. The condescending personal attacks are beyond what I’m willing to deal with, especially on a support site.
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