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Yes And No
Replies
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Aaron_K123 wrote: »Feel free to correct me if you think this is wrong but to me when people say they need to be "body positive" what they really mean is that they need to be able to be effective at what they put their mind to and what they have determined is that if they are unhappy about their body it is so distracting as to make them ineffective. That is a difficult situation to be in for sure, but it certainly is not true that anyone who is dissatisfied by their body is paralyzed by this.
There have been times I looked at my body and decided I didn't like what I saw and wanted to change it and I found that rather motivating not demotivating because to me my body is just a thing that carries me around like a car and if I want an upgrade I just need to put the work in. If I decided one day that my car was an unattractive thing and that bothered me enough to want to change it then I'd take the time to put money aside with the intent of buying a new car...the idea that my car was ugly wouldn't paralyze me into inaction. I don't really have a lot of emotion associated with the idea that I am dissatisfied with my body any more than I'd have being dissatisfied with my car. Right now I'm not very satisfied with my body but its not a high priority for me and thats fine...doesn't bother me. By my analogy it'd be like if I didn't think my car was that great but I didn't really think buying a new car was something I wanted to be doing right now so I just kept my old car realizing that it was my choice to do so and I could change my mind later if I wanted to.
I get and accept that for some people the state of their body is a very emotional issue for them that has associated anxieties that can ruin their effectiveness and cause them to become demotivated to even try. I don't really have solutions for that, that is hard, but making broad statements about how it is not possible to lose weight if you aren't body positive...well, like most broadly made statements its pretty easy to show why that isn't true.
I think the difference is this: you could want to buy a new car that you like and find more desirable, without finding your current car unattractive. This is probably want people who want body positivity and weight loss want to achieve: they're comfortable in their new car, but they are saving for the newer model they want too.3 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »nytrifisoul wrote: »I don't buy the " i have a physical medical condition and i can't exercise. I have arthritis in my lower back, degenerative disc disease, and bulging discs, not to mention tennis elbow, and runners knee. I used to run 10 miles a day 5 years ago (i am 40) I may have let myself go for a few years because of this, but i am right back on track burning the same amount of calories per day just by doing different forms of exercise. In my opinion, its just an excuse for people who are too lazy to research and try other forms of exercise.
Anyway, just my 0.2 cents, i am sure people will disagree with my harsh opinion.
Agree, if you want to move, most people can find a way. American football player with no legs:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnNsCmJuwro
I hate this type of logic because it can be used to discount anybody's struggle or problem with anything. "Oh you think you have X bad? Well this person over here has it worse." It's not a struggle competition. Everyone's own circumstances are unique, and they don't require anyone else's validation to feel okay about having difficulty with them.
The point wasn't to discount anybody's struggle. Point was if someone really wants to exercise, they can probably find their own way if they have the desire.
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magnusthenerd wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »Feel free to correct me if you think this is wrong but to me when people say they need to be "body positive" what they really mean is that they need to be able to be effective at what they put their mind to and what they have determined is that if they are unhappy about their body it is so distracting as to make them ineffective. That is a difficult situation to be in for sure, but it certainly is not true that anyone who is dissatisfied by their body is paralyzed by this.
There have been times I looked at my body and decided I didn't like what I saw and wanted to change it and I found that rather motivating not demotivating because to me my body is just a thing that carries me around like a car and if I want an upgrade I just need to put the work in. If I decided one day that my car was an unattractive thing and that bothered me enough to want to change it then I'd take the time to put money aside with the intent of buying a new car...the idea that my car was ugly wouldn't paralyze me into inaction. I don't really have a lot of emotion associated with the idea that I am dissatisfied with my body any more than I'd have being dissatisfied with my car. Right now I'm not very satisfied with my body but its not a high priority for me and thats fine...doesn't bother me. By my analogy it'd be like if I didn't think my car was that great but I didn't really think buying a new car was something I wanted to be doing right now so I just kept my old car realizing that it was my choice to do so and I could change my mind later if I wanted to.
I get and accept that for some people the state of their body is a very emotional issue for them that has associated anxieties that can ruin their effectiveness and cause them to become demotivated to even try. I don't really have solutions for that, that is hard, but making broad statements about how it is not possible to lose weight if you aren't body positive...well, like most broadly made statements its pretty easy to show why that isn't true.
I think the difference is this: you could want to buy a new car that you like and find more desirable, without finding your current car unattractive. This is probably want people who want body positivity and weight loss want to achieve: they're comfortable in their new car, but they are saving for the newer model they want too.
Image is not really a motivating or demotivating issue for me. I believe that day is coming but I am mostly still focused on the features that a new car will give me. My old car did 0 to 60 never. The one I have now can get there but should be measured with an hourglass not a stopwatch. I am sure I can do better.
We are all probably saying the same thing though and the pointer on the balance is going to land in different places for different people. Regardless of the source of the discontentment if it is too much I am not patient enough and if it is too little I will be complacent.
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Theoldguy1 wrote: »nytrifisoul wrote: »I don't buy the " i have a physical medical condition and i can't exercise. I have arthritis in my lower back, degenerative disc disease, and bulging discs, not to mention tennis elbow, and runners knee. I used to run 10 miles a day 5 years ago (i am 40) I may have let myself go for a few years because of this, but i am right back on track burning the same amount of calories per day just by doing different forms of exercise. In my opinion, its just an excuse for people who are too lazy to research and try other forms of exercise.
Anyway, just my 0.2 cents, i am sure people will disagree with my harsh opinion.
Agree, if you want to move, most people can find a way. American football player with no legs:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnNsCmJuwro
Amen. People dont realize how much energy one can burn just doing simple things. Parking further away from work. Doing dishes by hand. Walking on breaks. Small things add up big. Cant run, walk. Cant walk , recline bike. Ect....3 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »nytrifisoul wrote: »I don't buy the " i have a physical medical condition and i can't exercise. I have arthritis in my lower back, degenerative disc disease, and bulging discs, not to mention tennis elbow, and runners knee. I used to run 10 miles a day 5 years ago (i am 40) I may have let myself go for a few years because of this, but i am right back on track burning the same amount of calories per day just by doing different forms of exercise. In my opinion, its just an excuse for people who are too lazy to research and try other forms of exercise.
Anyway, just my 0.2 cents, i am sure people will disagree with my harsh opinion.
Agree, if you want to move, most people can find a way. American football player with no legs:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnNsCmJuwro
I hate this type of logic because it can be used to discount anybody's struggle or problem with anything. "Oh you think you have X bad? Well this person over here has it worse." It's not a struggle competition. Everyone's own circumstances are unique, and they don't require anyone else's validation to feel okay about having difficulty with them.
The point wasn't to discount anybody's struggle. Point was if someone really wants to exercise, they can probably find their own way if they have the desire.
To counter this, I think part of the point that @MikePTY and I were making is that saying this like, "look at this person who doesn't have legs and is able to play American football" in response to someone who is having trouble exercising/figuring out how to be more active or the idea that there are people in have trouble doing those things can be invalidating regardless of whether or not you meant it to be (sorry for the run-on sentence). I don't necessarily think that there was any malintent to your post, but a lack of malintent doesn't mean that what was said wasn't, in this case, invalidating. Yes it sucks that language works like that, but it's part of being a human that uses language.6 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »nytrifisoul wrote: »I don't buy the " i have a physical medical condition and i can't exercise. I have arthritis in my lower back, degenerative disc disease, and bulging discs, not to mention tennis elbow, and runners knee. I used to run 10 miles a day 5 years ago (i am 40) I may have let myself go for a few years because of this, but i am right back on track burning the same amount of calories per day just by doing different forms of exercise. In my opinion, its just an excuse for people who are too lazy to research and try other forms of exercise.
Anyway, just my 0.2 cents, i am sure people will disagree with my harsh opinion.
Agree, if you want to move, most people can find a way. American football player with no legs:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnNsCmJuwro
I hate this type of logic because it can be used to discount anybody's struggle or problem with anything. "Oh you think you have X bad? Well this person over here has it worse." It's not a struggle competition. Everyone's own circumstances are unique, and they don't require anyone else's validation to feel okay about having difficulty with them.
The point wasn't to discount anybody's struggle. Point was if someone really wants to exercise, they can probably find their own way if they have the desire.
Moments like this bring up challenges to our perception. You can either look at this and be inspired, experience dissonance, or variations in between. It doesn't change reality, but it may shatter subjective and relative perception.1 -
magnusthenerd wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »Feel free to correct me if you think this is wrong but to me when people say they need to be "body positive" what they really mean is that they need to be able to be effective at what they put their mind to and what they have determined is that if they are unhappy about their body it is so distracting as to make them ineffective. That is a difficult situation to be in for sure, but it certainly is not true that anyone who is dissatisfied by their body is paralyzed by this.
There have been times I looked at my body and decided I didn't like what I saw and wanted to change it and I found that rather motivating not demotivating because to me my body is just a thing that carries me around like a car and if I want an upgrade I just need to put the work in. If I decided one day that my car was an unattractive thing and that bothered me enough to want to change it then I'd take the time to put money aside with the intent of buying a new car...the idea that my car was ugly wouldn't paralyze me into inaction. I don't really have a lot of emotion associated with the idea that I am dissatisfied with my body any more than I'd have being dissatisfied with my car. Right now I'm not very satisfied with my body but its not a high priority for me and that's fine...doesn't bother me. By my analogy it'd be like if I didn't think my car was that great but I didn't really think buying a new car was something I wanted to be doing right now so I just kept my old car realizing that it was my choice to do so and I could change my mind later if I wanted to.
I get and accept that for some people the state of their body is a very emotional issue for them that has associated anxieties that can ruin their effectiveness and cause them to become demotivated to even try. I don't really have solutions for that, that is hard, but making broad statements about how it is not possible to lose weight if you aren't body positive...well, like most broadly made statements its pretty easy to show why that isn't true.
I think the difference is this: you could want to buy a new car that you like and find more desirable, without finding your current car unattractive. This is probably want people who want body positivity and weight loss want to achieve: they're comfortable in their new car, but they are saving for the newer model they want too.
During this process it is worth noting that the owner would want to sell the current car and therefore keep it in the best condition for sale - build to purpose, vacuum, maintain, wash & wax, etc. In essence show some love. If I'm looking to purchase said car and I see that it wasn't maintained, full of trash, covered with dirt, I'm going to question exactly how "positive" the owner was as the objective evidence stands in contradiction to the claim.
In staying with the car analogy if the owner poured a lot of time and energy into less than honorable dealers & servicers this isn't just frustrating - it leads one to desperation and insanity.
To the point of the OP if we love something we put effort into it, which is why people who become aware of the desire or need to change behavior are stuck in a moment of dissonance. This is a phenomenal emotional moment. Any reasonable person would meet this with understanding and offer help, which is why people stuck in this moment are met with a massive positive reinforcement to help and support.
I also have to remember what a microcosm we have here within MFP. Even within the site many still believe it's something other than CICO and stuck in another matter of dissonance.1 -
magnusthenerd wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »Feel free to correct me if you think this is wrong but to me when people say they need to be "body positive" what they really mean is that they need to be able to be effective at what they put their mind to and what they have determined is that if they are unhappy about their body it is so distracting as to make them ineffective. That is a difficult situation to be in for sure, but it certainly is not true that anyone who is dissatisfied by their body is paralyzed by this.
There have been times I looked at my body and decided I didn't like what I saw and wanted to change it and I found that rather motivating not demotivating because to me my body is just a thing that carries me around like a car and if I want an upgrade I just need to put the work in. If I decided one day that my car was an unattractive thing and that bothered me enough to want to change it then I'd take the time to put money aside with the intent of buying a new car...the idea that my car was ugly wouldn't paralyze me into inaction. I don't really have a lot of emotion associated with the idea that I am dissatisfied with my body any more than I'd have being dissatisfied with my car. Right now I'm not very satisfied with my body but its not a high priority for me and that's fine...doesn't bother me. By my analogy it'd be like if I didn't think my car was that great but I didn't really think buying a new car was something I wanted to be doing right now so I just kept my old car realizing that it was my choice to do so and I could change my mind later if I wanted to.
I get and accept that for some people the state of their body is a very emotional issue for them that has associated anxieties that can ruin their effectiveness and cause them to become demotivated to even try. I don't really have solutions for that, that is hard, but making broad statements about how it is not possible to lose weight if you aren't body positive...well, like most broadly made statements its pretty easy to show why that isn't true.
I think the difference is this: you could want to buy a new car that you like and find more desirable, without finding your current car unattractive. This is probably want people who want body positivity and weight loss want to achieve: they're comfortable in their new car, but they are saving for the newer model they want too.
During this process it is worth noting that the owner would want to sell the current car and therefore keep it in the best condition for sale - build to purpose, vacuum, maintain, wash & wax, etc. In essence show some love. If I'm looking to purchase said car and I see that it wasn't maintained, full of trash, covered with dirt, I'm going to question exactly how "positive" the owner was as the objective evidence stands in contradiction to the claim.
In staying with the car analogy if the owner poured a lot of time and energy into less than honorable dealers & servicers this isn't just frustrating - it leads one to desperation and insanity.
To the point of the OP if we love something we put effort into it, which is why people who become aware of the desire or need to change behavior are stuck in a moment of dissonance. This is a phenomenal emotional moment. Any reasonable person would meet this with understanding and offer help, which is why people stuck in this moment are met with a massive positive reinforcement to help and support.
I also have to remember what a microcosm we have here within MFP. Even within the site many still believe it's something other than CICO and stuck in another matter of dissonance.
True, if you had the MSRP for a car in front of you but every dealer you went to tried to add a bunch of odd fees, some of which even contradicted each other - "I have to charge you the compact car tax" while someone else "hast to charge you the full size warranty fee" - all while seeing the dealerships manage to sell cars, this must work on some level - you eventually would feel unwilling to bother with trying to get a new car. In that sense all the contradictory dietary gurus ruin the ability to lose weight for people, particularly as there are plenty of them that are in a good shape, yet saying contradictory things.1
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