Stop trying to kill other MFPers - the salt issue

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Replies

  • LyndaBSS
    LyndaBSS Posts: 6,970 Member
    whitpauly wrote: »
    I love salt

    Do you have Maldon Flakes? They are the best.

    https://www.amazon.com/Maldon-Sea-Salt-Flakes-ounce/dp/B00017028M

    Just placed an order. 😉
  • paperpudding
    paperpudding Posts: 8,926 Member
    The danger with salt is too little, not too much.


    No, that isn't true for everyone. People with cardiac conditions do have to avoid the danger of too much salt.



    As a cardiac patient, I have been through this with my doctors at the Cleveland Clinic. A person who is retaining water puts an extra load on the heart. If not retaining water, salt does not matter. However, recent surgical recovery patients and recent heart attacks are recommended to have reduced sodium. There is a very weak clinical predicate for this but I would agree that if it is doctors order it should be followed. Everyone else? Not so much.


    Of course not everyone else.

    But those with cardiac conditions should follow medical advice and for many of those, that is reduced sodium.
  • wilson10102018
    wilson10102018 Posts: 1,306 Member
    edited November 2019
    Low sodium is very dangerous. Sodium is your electrolyte. Without it your kidneys die. That is about the worst thing one can do from misinformed dieting. Compulsive over eaters demonstrate the principle over and over - "if a little is good, more is better." "If less is good, even lesser is better."

    That sodium "limit" can go to zero at the hand of any person who can starve themselves for two days then eat a 3 pound tub of Hummus and a whole Angelfood cake.

    So the repetition of "less sodium! less sodium!" in the face of decreasing support for it is a really bad idea here.

    Read about it yourself: There is very little reason for a low sodium diet. Your doctor will tell you if you should be on one. Not some shlub on a food forum.

    https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/heart-failure-and-salt-the-great-debate-2018121815563

  • OldHobo
    OldHobo Posts: 647 Member
    edited November 2019
    @wilson10102018, I continue to assume you are not being deliberately deceitful although you use the tactics of one who is.

    The central point of the article to which you link is, "Moderate sodium intake is not harmful for people with heart failure." How do I know that is the central point? Because it is in big bold blue type right in the center of the article! The author admits that the point is debated among professionals but there just is no great salt debate about whether excessive salt consumption is harmful. And 90% of Americans consume excessive amounts of sodium. The straw man argument you employ is a well-known method of disinformation.

    From the Centers for Disease Control:
    What Do the 2015–2020 Guidelines
    Say About Sodium?
    The problem of eating too much sodium is covered in
    the report:
    n The 2015–2020 Dietary Guidelines for Americans
    recommend that Americans consume less than
    2,300 milligrams (mg) of sodium per day as part
    of a healthy eating pattern.
    n Based on these guidelines, the vast majority of
    adults eat more sodium than they should—an
    average of more than 3,400 mg each day.
    Eating too much sodium puts Americans at risk for
    developing serious medical conditions, like high blood
    pressure, heart disease, and stroke.

    From the American Heart Association
    9 out of 10 Americans consume too much sodium.
    On average, American adults eat more than double the amount of sodium they should:

    3,400 milligrams is the amount of sodium that the average American consumes.

    1,500 milligrams or less is the American Heart Association's recommended daily allowance of sodium.

    Where does the sodium we eat come from?
    According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention:

    65 percent comes from food bought in stores
    25 percent comes from restaurants
    10 percent comes from home cooking and at the table
    Excess sodium increases a person's risk for high blood pressure, which can lead to heart disease and stroke.
    How can I control how much sodium I eat?

    Choose lower-sodium foods and cook at home more often.
    Look for the Heart Check mark to find products that can help you make smarter choices about the foods you eat.
    Check the nutrition facts label for the amount of sodium per serving AND the number of servings per container.
    Read food labels. Assorted brands of the same food often have different sodium amounts.

    From the Food and Drug Administration
    The goal is to help consumers gradually reduce their daily sodium intake to 2,300 milligrams (mg) per day. That’s about roughly one teaspoon of salt, the daily consumption amount recommended in federal dietary guidelines. Today, Americans consume an average 3,400 mg per day—almost 50 percent more than is generally recommended. That’s putting their health at risk.
    So @wilson10102018, quit being a shlub.
  • Carlos_421
    Carlos_421 Posts: 5,132 Member
    OldHobo wrote: »
    @wilson10102018, I continue to assume you are not being deliberately deceitful although you use the tactics of one who is.

    The central point of the article to which you link is, "Moderate sodium intake is not harmful for people with heart failure." How do I know that is the central point? Because it is in big bold blue type right in the center of the article! The author admits that the point is debated among professionals but there just is no great salt debate about whether excessive salt consumption is harmful. And 90% of Americans consume excessive amounts of sodium. The straw man argument you employ is a well-known method of disinformation.

    From the Centers for Disease Control:
    What Do the 2015–2020 Guidelines
    Say About Sodium?
    The problem of eating too much sodium is covered in
    the report:
    n The 2015–2020 Dietary Guidelines for Americans
    recommend that Americans consume less than
    2,300 milligrams (mg) of sodium per day as part
    of a healthy eating pattern.
    n Based on these guidelines, the vast majority of
    adults eat more sodium than they should—an
    average of more than 3,400 mg each day.
    Eating too much sodium puts Americans at risk for
    developing serious medical conditions, like high blood
    pressure, heart disease, and stroke.

    From the American Heart Association
    9 out of 10 Americans consume too much sodium.
    On average, American adults eat more than double the amount of sodium they should:

    3,400 milligrams is the amount of sodium that the average American consumes.

    1,500 milligrams or less is the American Heart Association's recommended daily allowance of sodium.

    Where does the sodium we eat come from?
    According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention:

    65 percent comes from food bought in stores
    25 percent comes from restaurants
    10 percent comes from home cooking and at the table
    Excess sodium increases a person's risk for high blood pressure, which can lead to heart disease and stroke.
    How can I control how much sodium I eat?

    Choose lower-sodium foods and cook at home more often.
    Look for the Heart Check mark to find products that can help you make smarter choices about the foods you eat.
    Check the nutrition facts label for the amount of sodium per serving AND the number of servings per container.
    Read food labels. Assorted brands of the same food often have different sodium amounts.

    From the Food and Drug Administration
    The goal is to help consumers gradually reduce their daily sodium intake to 2,300 milligrams (mg) per day. That’s about roughly one teaspoon of salt, the daily consumption amount recommended in federal dietary guidelines. Today, Americans consume an average 3,400 mg per day—almost 50 percent more than is generally recommended. That’s putting their health at risk.
    So @wilson10102018, quit being a shlub.

    If you assume he's not being intentionally deceitful, why are you resorting to personal attacks, calling him a shlub?
  • wmd1979
    wmd1979 Posts: 469 Member
    Maybe I am in the minority, but it has never even occurred to me to track my sodium intake. Calories and protein, yes, but definitely not sodium. The beauty of eating a balanced diet that doesn't overly promote or restrict certain foods is you don't need to stress about every micronutrient. That's why I would always stress everything in moderation over any specific eating style.
  • armyvet25
    armyvet25 Posts: 48 Member

    Nor should we listen to someone quoting an internet blog...I read the article, it was inconclusive. Yes, listen to your doctor, but today's foods are so over saturated with some form of sodium or salt derivative preservative, its pretty dang hard to not get enough. And I haven't heard of any epidemic of people keeling over from lack of it either in the news. Yes, I know, we need at least min. of 500mg daily to be healthy, but even those who fast a few days aren't likely to fall over dead from lack of it, always consult a physician, not Dr. google

  • OldHobo
    OldHobo Posts: 647 Member
    edited November 2019
    Carlos_421 wrote: »
    If you assume he's not being intentionally deceitful, why are you resorting to personal attacks, calling him a shlub?
    Referenced his own words. See the end of his last post. Maybe I should have put a winky emoji behind it.

  • LyndaBSS
    LyndaBSS Posts: 6,970 Member
    OldHobo wrote: »
    @wilson10102018, I continue to assume you are not being deliberately deceitful although you use the tactics of one who is.

    The central point of the article to which you link is, "Moderate sodium intake is not harmful for people with heart failure." How do I know that is the central point? Because it is in big bold blue type right in the center of the article! The author admits that the point is debated among professionals but there just is no great salt debate about whether excessive salt consumption is harmful. And 90% of Americans consume excessive amounts of sodium. The straw man argument you employ is a well-known method of disinformation.

    From the Centers for Disease Control:
    What Do the 2015–2020 Guidelines
    Say About Sodium?
    The problem of eating too much sodium is covered in
    the report:
    n The 2015–2020 Dietary Guidelines for Americans
    recommend that Americans consume less than
    2,300 milligrams (mg) of sodium per day as part
    of a healthy eating pattern.
    n Based on these guidelines, the vast majority of
    adults eat more sodium than they should—an
    average of more than 3,400 mg each day.
    Eating too much sodium puts Americans at risk for
    developing serious medical conditions, like high blood
    pressure, heart disease, and stroke.

    From the American Heart Association
    9 out of 10 Americans consume too much sodium.
    On average, American adults eat more than double the amount of sodium they should:

    3,400 milligrams is the amount of sodium that the average American consumes.

    1,500 milligrams or less is the American Heart Association's recommended daily allowance of sodium.

    Where does the sodium we eat come from?
    According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention:

    65 percent comes from food bought in stores
    25 percent comes from restaurants
    10 percent comes from home cooking and at the table
    Excess sodium increases a person's risk for high blood pressure, which can lead to heart disease and stroke.
    How can I control how much sodium I eat?

    Choose lower-sodium foods and cook at home more often.
    Look for the Heart Check mark to find products that can help you make smarter choices about the foods you eat.
    Check the nutrition facts label for the amount of sodium per serving AND the number of servings per container.
    Read food labels. Assorted brands of the same food often have different sodium amounts.

    From the Food and Drug Administration
    The goal is to help consumers gradually reduce their daily sodium intake to 2,300 milligrams (mg) per day. That’s about roughly one teaspoon of salt, the daily consumption amount recommended in federal dietary guidelines. Today, Americans consume an average 3,400 mg per day—almost 50 percent more than is generally recommended. That’s putting their health at risk.
    So @wilson10102018, quit being a shlub.

    Wouldn’t be the first time. 🙄
  • wilson10102018
    wilson10102018 Posts: 1,306 Member
    The last refuge of a failed argument is the personal, ad hominem attack. A little out of the ordinary here, but at least we know what you are. Now if you want to disagree that something pretty horrible can happen when sodium is way low, then cite some study that says so.
  • wilson10102018
    wilson10102018 Posts: 1,306 Member
    armyvet25 wrote: »

    Nor should we listen to someone quoting an internet blog...I read the article, it was inconclusive. Yes, listen to your doctor, but today's foods are so over saturated with some form of sodium or salt derivative preservative, its pretty dang hard to not get enough. And I haven't heard of any epidemic of people keeling over from lack of it either in the news. Yes, I know, we need at least min. of 500mg daily to be healthy, but even those who fast a few days aren't likely to fall over dead from lack of it, always consult a physician, not Dr. google


    I guess you are a low sodium advocate.

    Here is the take away from an actual study if you prefer:

    Previous studies have shown that low-sodium, compared to average sodium intake, is related to increased cardiovascular risk and mortality, even though low sodium intake is associated with lower blood pressure.

    https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(16)30467-6/fulltext
  • armyvet25
    armyvet25 Posts: 48 Member
    more so for my health issues than an actual advocate, and there are always both sides arguing one way or the opposite no matter the topic on the internet, best to let our own Dr's advise I guess