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Ethical food consumption
daneejela
Posts: 461 Member
I would like to open a discussion about ethical eating, but if possible I would like to extend it beyond vegan vs no vegan debates since it always ends up in a very heated debate with two separate clans.
I think we all can make our eating a bit more ethical and environmental friendly, whatever our views are.
I, personally am not a vegan, nor vegetarian (at least at the moment I am writing this), but I still think that there is a huge difference we can make even while eating meat.
Killing is cruel, but in my views, that kind of cruelty is natural (however I dislike the fact). On the other side, keeping animals in industrial environments, completely separated from anything natural or living is cruel beyond words (IMO).
We are all doomed to die as we are all part of that natural feeding cycle, but even the wildest beasts don't take their prey's life completely.
So, here are my views on ethical eating, and what I try to avoid:
- eating more than I need to be alive and healthy (obviously, I am not very good at this since I am here, but I am striving to find that moderation in everyday consumption of pretty much anything)
- buying meat, eggs, and dairy that are raised in industrial environments - I try to find local free-range farms where those animals are raised close to their natural habitat. Although I hate hunting as a sport, from the meat consumption perspective, I think that's by far the most ethical way to find meat.
- buying veggies that are not grown in a very artificial way with lots of chemistry that kills everything around
- having a lot of food waste - I am trying to learn more recipes, tips & tricks to be able to use most of the food I have available and to have the least waste possible.
- avoiding something just because it's not labeled non-vegan (or any similar label) - for example, many people don't want to use wool for the ethical reasons, and yet, in my country, unused wool is a pretty big environmental problem. Sheep get shaved every summer because it's too hot for them otherwise. A huge amount of wool is being dumped into the environment and is very slow at decomposing. (not food-related example, but I wanted to share)
I am not very good at any of this, and I think I am still doing baby steps, but this is something I would like to incorporate in my habits.
What does ethical eating mean for you? Do you do any daily efforts in order to achieve it?
Do you have any tips or suggestions on how to be better at it?
I think we all can make our eating a bit more ethical and environmental friendly, whatever our views are.
I, personally am not a vegan, nor vegetarian (at least at the moment I am writing this), but I still think that there is a huge difference we can make even while eating meat.
Killing is cruel, but in my views, that kind of cruelty is natural (however I dislike the fact). On the other side, keeping animals in industrial environments, completely separated from anything natural or living is cruel beyond words (IMO).
We are all doomed to die as we are all part of that natural feeding cycle, but even the wildest beasts don't take their prey's life completely.
So, here are my views on ethical eating, and what I try to avoid:
- eating more than I need to be alive and healthy (obviously, I am not very good at this since I am here, but I am striving to find that moderation in everyday consumption of pretty much anything)
- buying meat, eggs, and dairy that are raised in industrial environments - I try to find local free-range farms where those animals are raised close to their natural habitat. Although I hate hunting as a sport, from the meat consumption perspective, I think that's by far the most ethical way to find meat.
- buying veggies that are not grown in a very artificial way with lots of chemistry that kills everything around
- having a lot of food waste - I am trying to learn more recipes, tips & tricks to be able to use most of the food I have available and to have the least waste possible.
- avoiding something just because it's not labeled non-vegan (or any similar label) - for example, many people don't want to use wool for the ethical reasons, and yet, in my country, unused wool is a pretty big environmental problem. Sheep get shaved every summer because it's too hot for them otherwise. A huge amount of wool is being dumped into the environment and is very slow at decomposing. (not food-related example, but I wanted to share)
I am not very good at any of this, and I think I am still doing baby steps, but this is something I would like to incorporate in my habits.
What does ethical eating mean for you? Do you do any daily efforts in order to achieve it?
Do you have any tips or suggestions on how to be better at it?
18
Replies
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I just want to say I think it is awesome that you are working on being more ethical in your consumption.
I am trying to avoid products made by corporations such as Nestle which supports child slavery, stealing water from the great lakes for their profit, and destruction of the rain forests with their love of palm oil. Hershey's too.
I am vegan with the exception of occasional eggs from free-range/small local farms.
I do not understand how anyone can support meat and dairy from CAFOS (Concentrated Animal Feeding Operations). They are cruel and are destroying the environment. But people prefer to be ignorant.
It is interesting that when people learn I'm vegan they assume it is for weight loss or health...Sure that is part of it, but it is really just because I am personally uncomfortable with supporting factory farms/CAFOs.15 -
Im slowly switching to organic and free range meat, along with more natural cleaners and bodycare products. Its for sure more expensive,especially with a family. But i will continue to switch where i can and hopefully one day I'm switched over 100%4
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Problem is that there's no way to provide the amount of meat to feed everyone without industrial farms and also have it at a price that is generally affordable.
Also, if we're talking about fitness, protein requirements are higher than the RDA.
14 -
It's one thing to imagine and theorize, quite another to actually execute. Most people simply cannot execute, which is why those who have a proven track record of successful execution hold a high value within societies.
There is nothing inherently cruel about killing. Cruelty involves a degrees of willful infliction of pain and suffering or feeling no concern over this.
Nature is cruel.
Start a garden. Go hunting. Go forage. This actions alone will impart a degree of experience and knowledge. Chances are you'll enjoy this and want to dig deeper. Join a co-op. Invest. Buy land. Start a hobby farm. Homestead.
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liftingbro wrote: »Problem is that there's no way to provide the amount of meat to feed everyone without industrial farms and also have it at a price that is generally affordable.
Also, if we're talking about fitness, protein requirements are higher than the RDA.
I am not sure if this is the case...at least not in my part of the world...there are so many abandoned lands that nobody cares for and pasture that is being trimmed with trimming machines. It's almost impossible to see a cow, a pig or a sheep outside in the countryside.
If all those land would be utilized, I would probably share your opinion, right now it sounds too me like one of those widely spread beliefs that are hard to prove/disprove.
Regarding proteins...I don't have enough knowledge to argue about how much proteins we need, but a look into the historical consumption of proteins raises a question if we maybe are going overboard with proteins lately.
(I am not talking about bodybuilders, but an average person with average physical activity)8 -
I am not sure if this is the case...at least not in my part of the world...there are so many abandoned lands that nobody cares for and pasture that is being trimmed with trimming machines. It's almost impossible to see a cow, a pig or a sheep outside in the countryside.
If all those land would be utilized, I would probably share your opinion, right now it sounds too me like one of those widely spread beliefs that are hard to prove/disprove.
Someone would still need to buy the animals to graze on the land. Someone needs to take care of the animals on that land. That costs money. The average consumer doesn't want to pay higher prices for free range and grass fed animals. Farmers can't afford to invest money in a commodity that is not going to yield a profit. I'm not saying it isn't something I would like to see happen, just that financially most farmers are unable to do it.7 -
I guess my question would be "Is something morally appropriate just because it's natural?"
I think we (speaking generally) tend to elide a lot of useful moral conversations by accepting a behavior just because it is "natural" (or dismissing one just because it is "unnatural"). Sometimes it turns into a way of saying "We're okay to do this because it's the way we've always done it."13 -
liftingbro wrote: »Problem is that there's no way to provide the amount of meat to feed everyone without industrial farms and also have it at a price that is generally affordable.
Also, if we're talking about fitness, protein requirements are higher than the RDA.
I am not sure if this is the case...at least not in my part of the world...there are so many abandoned lands that nobody cares for and pasture that is being trimmed with trimming machines. It's almost impossible to see a cow, a pig or a sheep outside in the countryside.
If all those land would be utilized, I would probably share your opinion, right now it sounds too me like one of those widely spread beliefs that are hard to prove/disprove.
Regarding proteins...I don't have enough knowledge to argue about how much proteins we need, but a look into the historical consumption of proteins raises a question if we maybe are going overboard with proteins lately.
(I am not talking about bodybuilders, but an average person with average physical activity)
In most parts of the world there aren't "abandoned" lands, they are owned by someone or the government in 99% of the world.
Unless you are pushing for forced confiscation of land owned by people or using government, this wont work.
In the US, a pretty large country, there is literally no abandoned land. It's either owned by a citizen or the government owns it and most government owned land are wildlife refuges, state, and national parks.
As someone else said, to farm the way you want would require a lot more land and lot more people and the cost of food would skyrocket. There's a reason the population exploded after industrial farming started, because food supply previously wouldn't support that amount of growth.
The only way this would work is if most of society went back to 1800's lifestyle where most families were farmers of some sort. The problem with that is #1-Few people know how to farm that way, #2-Availability of land #3-Price of land, #4-desire for enough people to want to farm.
In America it would cost you millions of dollars to buy land, equipment and livestock to start even a small farm.9 -
liftingbro wrote: »Problem is that there's no way to provide the amount of meat to feed everyone without industrial farms and also have it at a price that is generally affordable.
Also, if we're talking about fitness, protein requirements are higher than the RDA.
I am not sure if this is the case...at least not in my part of the world...there are so many abandoned lands that nobody cares for and pasture that is being trimmed with trimming machines. It's almost impossible to see a cow, a pig or a sheep outside in the countryside.
If all those land would be utilized, I would probably share your opinion, right now it sounds too me like one of those widely spread beliefs that are hard to prove/disprove.
Regarding proteins...I don't have enough knowledge to argue about how much proteins we need, but a look into the historical consumption of proteins raises a question if we maybe are going overboard with proteins lately.
(I am not talking about bodybuilders, but an average person with average physical activity)
Are you aware of the land requirements for successful farming/cattle pasturing? Just because land is "abandoned" doesn't mean it can be effectively used for those activities.
8 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »liftingbro wrote: »Problem is that there's no way to provide the amount of meat to feed everyone without industrial farms and also have it at a price that is generally affordable.
Also, if we're talking about fitness, protein requirements are higher than the RDA.
I am not sure if this is the case...at least not in my part of the world...there are so many abandoned lands that nobody cares for and pasture that is being trimmed with trimming machines. It's almost impossible to see a cow, a pig or a sheep outside in the countryside.
If all those land would be utilized, I would probably share your opinion, right now it sounds too me like one of those widely spread beliefs that are hard to prove/disprove.
Regarding proteins...I don't have enough knowledge to argue about how much proteins we need, but a look into the historical consumption of proteins raises a question if we maybe are going overboard with proteins lately.
(I am not talking about bodybuilders, but an average person with average physical activity)
Are you aware of the land requirements for successful farming/cattle pasturing? Just because land is "abandoned" doesn't mean it can be effectively used for those activities.
Yes, the land has to have terrain suitable for livestock, have proper grasses for them to eat, and the soil has to have the correct mineral content or the animals will get sick, die or not grow to a reasonable size.
7 -
liftingbro wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »liftingbro wrote: »Problem is that there's no way to provide the amount of meat to feed everyone without industrial farms and also have it at a price that is generally affordable.
Also, if we're talking about fitness, protein requirements are higher than the RDA.
I am not sure if this is the case...at least not in my part of the world...there are so many abandoned lands that nobody cares for and pasture that is being trimmed with trimming machines. It's almost impossible to see a cow, a pig or a sheep outside in the countryside.
If all those land would be utilized, I would probably share your opinion, right now it sounds too me like one of those widely spread beliefs that are hard to prove/disprove.
Regarding proteins...I don't have enough knowledge to argue about how much proteins we need, but a look into the historical consumption of proteins raises a question if we maybe are going overboard with proteins lately.
(I am not talking about bodybuilders, but an average person with average physical activity)
Are you aware of the land requirements for successful farming/cattle pasturing? Just because land is "abandoned" doesn't mean it can be effectively used for those activities.
Yes, the land has to have terrain suitable for livestock, have proper grasses for them to eat, and the soil has to have the correct mineral content or the animals will get sick, die or not grow to a reasonable size.
My understanding is that even when land is well-suited, you're often requiring outside inputs to fully support the animals. It's rarely as simple as "put animals on the land, harvest meat in eighteen or so months."8 -
I grow/raise and hunt much of our food, but I don't know if I could be completely self sufficient even if I dedicated every inch of my ten acres to food production. I try though, and luckily I live in an area with lots of farmers/homesteaders who are open to bartering, so that helps. But we both work full-time so I'm not going to find the time to make my own ketchup, even if I could grow enough tomatoes to do so.10
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Well done OP for trying to be more ethical.
Last year I was veggie and making vegan choices where possible.
I don't drink milk anymore, and since eating meat again, I try and make better choices.
I don't always make the right choices, and sometimes I'll have a milkshake, but that's life, no one is perfect. Even baby steps help
5 -
janejellyroll wrote: »liftingbro wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »liftingbro wrote: »Problem is that there's no way to provide the amount of meat to feed everyone without industrial farms and also have it at a price that is generally affordable.
Also, if we're talking about fitness, protein requirements are higher than the RDA.
I am not sure if this is the case...at least not in my part of the world...there are so many abandoned lands that nobody cares for and pasture that is being trimmed with trimming machines. It's almost impossible to see a cow, a pig or a sheep outside in the countryside.
If all those land would be utilized, I would probably share your opinion, right now it sounds too me like one of those widely spread beliefs that are hard to prove/disprove.
Regarding proteins...I don't have enough knowledge to argue about how much proteins we need, but a look into the historical consumption of proteins raises a question if we maybe are going overboard with proteins lately.
(I am not talking about bodybuilders, but an average person with average physical activity)
Are you aware of the land requirements for successful farming/cattle pasturing? Just because land is "abandoned" doesn't mean it can be effectively used for those activities.
Yes, the land has to have terrain suitable for livestock, have proper grasses for them to eat, and the soil has to have the correct mineral content or the animals will get sick, die or not grow to a reasonable size.
My understanding is that even when land is well-suited, you're often requiring outside inputs to fully support the animals. It's rarely as simple as "put animals on the land, harvest meat in eighteen or so months."
Yes, you typically still have to have feed, hay, and sometimes mineral blocks but they can get quite a bit of their nutrition from the land if it has the proper nutrients.3 -
liftingbro wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »liftingbro wrote: »Problem is that there's no way to provide the amount of meat to feed everyone without industrial farms and also have it at a price that is generally affordable.
Also, if we're talking about fitness, protein requirements are higher than the RDA.
I am not sure if this is the case...at least not in my part of the world...there are so many abandoned lands that nobody cares for and pasture that is being trimmed with trimming machines. It's almost impossible to see a cow, a pig or a sheep outside in the countryside.
If all those land would be utilized, I would probably share your opinion, right now it sounds too me like one of those widely spread beliefs that are hard to prove/disprove.
Regarding proteins...I don't have enough knowledge to argue about how much proteins we need, but a look into the historical consumption of proteins raises a question if we maybe are going overboard with proteins lately.
(I am not talking about bodybuilders, but an average person with average physical activity)
Are you aware of the land requirements for successful farming/cattle pasturing? Just because land is "abandoned" doesn't mean it can be effectively used for those activities.
Yes, the land has to have terrain suitable for livestock, have proper grasses for them to eat, and the soil has to have the correct mineral content or the animals will get sick, die or not grow to a reasonable size.
Not to mention a water source for cattle and appreciate rainfall amounts for crops.2 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »liftingbro wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »liftingbro wrote: »Problem is that there's no way to provide the amount of meat to feed everyone without industrial farms and also have it at a price that is generally affordable.
Also, if we're talking about fitness, protein requirements are higher than the RDA.
I am not sure if this is the case...at least not in my part of the world...there are so many abandoned lands that nobody cares for and pasture that is being trimmed with trimming machines. It's almost impossible to see a cow, a pig or a sheep outside in the countryside.
If all those land would be utilized, I would probably share your opinion, right now it sounds too me like one of those widely spread beliefs that are hard to prove/disprove.
Regarding proteins...I don't have enough knowledge to argue about how much proteins we need, but a look into the historical consumption of proteins raises a question if we maybe are going overboard with proteins lately.
(I am not talking about bodybuilders, but an average person with average physical activity)
Are you aware of the land requirements for successful farming/cattle pasturing? Just because land is "abandoned" doesn't mean it can be effectively used for those activities.
Yes, the land has to have terrain suitable for livestock, have proper grasses for them to eat, and the soil has to have the correct mineral content or the animals will get sick, die or not grow to a reasonable size.
Not to mention a water source for cattle and appreciate rainfall amounts for crops.
Yes, there is a reason the Midwest down to Texas in the US produces most of the meat and dairy supply, the land is best suited for cattle, but that's with modern farming. Even less of that land would be suitable for more "sustainable" farming. But the Midwest has great soil, flat land, plenty of lakes/rivers, and moderate rainfall.
There's a reason the closer you get to the coast the fewer and fewer farms you see.
2 -
When it comes to eating animals. I buy as much as i am going to eat. I feel guilty if i throw a lot of meat away because the animal died in vain. Sounds silly but that's my thought!8
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I would like to open a discussion about ethical eating, but if possible I would like to extend it beyond vegan vs no vegan debates since it always ends up in a very heated debate with two separate clans.
I think we all can make our eating a bit more ethical and environmental friendly, whatever our views are.
What does ethical eating mean for you? Do you do any daily efforts in order to achieve it?
Do you have any tips or suggestions on how to be better at it?
@daneejela - kudos for trying to be more animal and environmentally friendly. 😉 I think it’s something many of us can do better at.
For me - I shop at a friends local butcher shop that is AWA certified and where the animals are raised with the highest level of animal husbandry.
Pros- I know where the food comes from and most importantly how the animals are supposed to be handled.
Cons - I spend a lot more $$.
I feel like I’m always learning more when it comes to animal welfare in regards to the food we eat. I’d like to be confident that the animals are treated humanely - even though I know there is not always a guarantee when I shop. I hope that is changing as consumers are digging deeper into where their food comes from. I think it’s important to encourage better disclosure of companies’ standards as well.
I buy more and more plant based foods...esp local and seasonal produce. I have a local butcher and fishmonger that I know - many people do not. I would try to research typical farms and see what their welfare ratings are.
I also believe in using the whole animal - I’ll buy various cuts or offal and use that in recipes..
Encouraging the conversation and keeping animal welfare in the public’s mind is crucial....thanks for starting the discussion!
11 -
I actually think of it as a little broader.
This is sort of a downer, but personally, I think all of us well-off (in global terms) first-world-ers are unavoidably little moving bundles of global harm: Environmental damage, human exploitation, animal exploitation, more.
Nice people do things to mitigate that harm, and it makes sense to start with the things that are easiest for us as individuals. There's no way to completely fix all the harm done on our behalf, sadly.
So, eating ethically, in ways that work for us, that we can fit into our lives, is a rational thing for a nice person to try to do.
It's really complicated, in some cases, because real-world actions all have side effects, so many things are profoundly interconnected these days, and one gets into trying to assess comparative harm. Since much of the readily-available information is going to come from advocacy organizations on one side or another, it can be difficult for a non-expert to sort out what really is more ethical, or at least less unethical: Eating plant-based foods that require clearing forest land, and transport from far-away places, maybe exploited labor; or meat that's produced locally and with transported inputs? Efficent factory-style operations that help more humans, and economically less advantaged humans, to get better nutrition? Lots of dimensions.
Like I said, I think nice people do what they can, and do the best they can with it. It's hard to discuss, without getting into quasi-religious arguments about it, IMO.16 -
Ethical eating. I raise my own. Chickens, beef, lamb, occasionally pork. All free range(-20C today and even my egg layers played in the snow today for a few min every hour of daylight). Of course during the winter months everyone stays more contained as they don’t desire to stray far from the food. Happy animals until they are dead. Never the suffering of being hauled in trucks and then stuffed in a feedlot.
I grow a lot of our veggies too and pick as many wild raspberries and saskatoons in the summer as I can to pop in the freezer. We eat a lot of garden produce right through the winter, potatoes and spaghetti squash, frozen beets, spinach, peppers, carrots, and corn, canned tomatoes and sauces. As much as we can produce and store saves us buying as much produce. When I think of the 1000s of miles our purchased produce and protein sources are hauled, it benefits us greatly being able to produce our own.9
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