I won’t track calories anymore
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paperpudding wrote: »Well OP was saying we should eat them all raw, although I know she later modified that.
I don't disagree with you ,my post was more referring to earlnabbey's above mine.
I don't disagree with her either - but I do think in real life we don't need to overanalyse our diets for which veg are better nutrition raw or cooked, if we eat a half way decent diet we will not be nutritionally deprived.
I'm not saying earnabbey said otherwise , it was just me continuing on further from her post.
Exactly. We all know eating a variety of foods is the best way to get well-rounded nutrition, and that includes eating foods prepared in a variety of ways. Most people do it automatically so they don't even have to think about it. Eating "raw only" poses some problems.6 -
I’v been counting calories for a few years now, and I’v barely lost weight. However when I was not tracking calories and did not have a goal I was not watching what I was eating. So this time I will not count calories but I will watch what I eat and I have a goal.
I have been religiously tracking, and tracking sugars on and off. I would get upset if a restaurant or takeaway did not have nutrition info and would worry myself about this, then just give in and just all out binge and sometimes purge after. So I will let go of all restrictions and eat a mixture of foods which are good, I am quite good now with portion size and estimating, you need some limit, but calorie counting is just so oversimplified when something could be low in calorie but will mess with your hormones and gut bacteria, something could be higher in calories and can be beneficial for you and more filling.
We’ve got to eat whole fruit and veg, in raw state so the vitamins are still there. We have to eat whole grains, the odd salty snack won’t hurt. Also sugar is needed not always a bad thing after meal, cos the serotonin helps with digestion, it’s about science. But try it out for yourself- the good old fashioned way of losing weight, without counting calories.
Hopefully I can find something more better to do, to fill in that time. Anyway just posted to help out people who this isn’t working for. I don’t think this app will be of anymore use lol. Good luck!
I agree with you that some people do not need to count calories there is no disputing that it can work just to cut portions sizes and eat more fruit and veg etc. So please don't think that I am against what you are proposing to do.
But I am curious about the comments you made that I have bolded. If you have become quite good at estimating portions size/calories then why would you binge when eating out just because the restaurant didn't supply the nutritional value of the food. I ask this because I am wondering what strategy you have for eating out now, as you still won't know the nutritional value of the food.
What advice has your medical team given you to help prevent portion creep?
Personally I don't find counting calories a terrible chore and I am a sloppy logger anyway. I have experimented with not logging once or twice and I find once I stop counting calories it is almost like I lose all control over my portion size and it starts to creep up and I end up gaining.
I tell myself I will eat reasonable portions and make sure to fill up on fruit and veg and have the odd treat but I seem to lose track of how much I have ACTUALLY eaten during a day. It is not until I look back at the day and realise I have eaten and conveniently forgotten how much I ate so have carried on to eat lots more than I needed to.
So basically for me counting and logging calories actually helps me to be more mindful of how much I am eating.
Good luck with your decision and I would be really interested to know how you get on. Whether it works or not because feedback from people who are trying something "other" can be very useful and informative.3 -
I went through this trying to help my mom lose weight. Some people don't want to change their diet in order to lose weight, and thus have a very hard time staying in their calorie goals. When tracking doesn't work, you can't make the assumption that not tracking will, its just backwards. Change your lifestyle first, then you can say you don't need to track4
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That “article” was complete and utter garbage, and had atrocious grammar. So bad it made my brain hurt and I couldn’t finish. Please don’t base your eating habits off random crap you find on the Internet. Best of luck to you, OP
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paperpudding wrote: »Well OP was saying we should eat them all raw, although I know she later modified that.
I don't disagree with you ,my post was more referring to earlnabbey's above mine.
I don't disagree with her either - but I do think in real life we don't need to overanalyse our diets for which veg are better nutrition raw or cooked, if we eat a half way decent diet we will not be nutritionally deprived.
I'm not saying earnabbey said otherwise , it was just me continuing on further from her post.
Yeah, I think we are all on the same page.
I just sometimes get paranoid that I come across as way more neurotic about this stuff than I am in practice, so wanted to make sure I was clear!4 -
Its hard but I suggest taking your emotions out of it. When making important decisions do you ignore all facts and go with your feelings? Of course not! Its not all or nothing, everything in this life is flawed, especially when eating out... maybe one day you unknowingly underestimate, the next might be an overestimate, it should all balance out. However if overeating ang going over your calories makes you so disgusted with yourself that you pig out on everything in sight.. well unfortunately, at least in my case minus the purging part (unless I can’t physically keep it down) it was normal until I got my emotions out of it. The first 2-3 weeks of tracking I just track and try to quickly let go of any emotions and any opinions, its just an observational period. If you don’t track and need to lose weight you’ll have to do some type of elimination diet, like paleo or loe carb.2
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(snip)
What I don't understand is the need -- by OP -- to suggest that counting is wrong for all or not as good as other methods.
(snip)
I'm going to risk going a little meta here.
I'm assuming it's an instance of the phenomenon where a subset of people seem to need to feel that their personal choices are objectively the best, in some universal sense.
I've even encountered people who behaved this way about tastes in music, food, movies, reading matter, clothing styles: They considered a person inferior who didn't share their "good" tastes, and felt personally criticized and affronted when another person expressed disagreement (not in any abusive terms**) with their personal preferences. (** Such as by saying "I don't enjoy that" or "I prefer X".)
It seems like this sort of thing would be more likely to happen for beliefs closer to ones self-image core, which weight management and exercise choices may be.
I'm inclined to think - speculating - that this is a trait that may indicate a lack of self-confidence or ego-strength, but I'm not sure. I'm quite confident that when it shows up in communicating with others, it's likely to create nonessential social conflict, affect friendships unfavorably, and generally bring unnecessary negativity into one's life. That would be a sad thing, but not really a blameful one (not a character fault), in my world.
Just my opinion, though.
I think its definitely a character flaw, like a narcissistic type of flaw, their egos are easily damaged because they look outside of themselves and to other people for ego boosts, but unfortunately a common one. But if its sporadic it could also be a bad habit people do to come across as more confident than they are in their decisions, or something they do out of retaliation if they feel threatened or attacked. In this case it’s probably just a sporadic coping type of mechanism but who knows3 -
(snip)
What I don't understand is the need -- by OP -- to suggest that counting is wrong for all or not as good as other methods.
(snip)
I'm going to risk going a little meta here.
I'm assuming it's an instance of the phenomenon where a subset of people seem to need to feel that their personal choices are objectively the best, in some universal sense.
I've even encountered people who behaved this way about tastes in music, food, movies, reading matter, clothing styles: They considered a person inferior who didn't share their "good" tastes, and felt personally criticized and affronted when another person expressed disagreement (not in any abusive terms**) with their personal preferences. (** Such as by saying "I don't enjoy that" or "I prefer X".)
It seems like this sort of thing would be more likely to happen for beliefs closer to ones self-image core, which weight management and exercise choices may be.
I'm inclined to think - speculating - that this is a trait that may indicate a lack of self-confidence or ego-strength, but I'm not sure. I'm quite confident that when it shows up in communicating with others, it's likely to create nonessential social conflict, affect friendships unfavorably, and generally bring unnecessary negativity into one's life. That would be a sad thing, but not really a blameful one (not a character fault), in my world.
Just my opinion, though.
I think its definitely a character flaw, like a narcissistic type of flaw, their egos are easily damaged because they look outside of themselves and to other people for ego boosts, but unfortunately a common one. But if its sporadic it could also be a bad habit people do to come across as more confident than they are in their decisions, or something they do out of retaliation if they feel threatened or attacked. In this case it’s probably just a sporadic coping type of mechanism but who knows
Part of the reason I think it's not a character fault - at least the thing I was trying to describe isn't, IMO - is that I think it is more likely to come from a position of lack self confidence or low ego strength, i.e., I think it's more sad than blameful. I don't know whether you and I are talking about the same phenomenon coming from the same place, or not; and of course we may just feel differently about it even if we are.
In any case, the OP has stated that it doesn't apply to her.
5 -
(snip)
What I don't understand is the need -- by OP -- to suggest that counting is wrong for all or not as good as other methods.
(snip)
I'm going to risk going a little meta here.
I'm assuming it's an instance of the phenomenon where a subset of people seem to need to feel that their personal choices are objectively the best, in some universal sense.
I've even encountered people who behaved this way about tastes in music, food, movies, reading matter, clothing styles: They considered a person inferior who didn't share their "good" tastes, and felt personally criticized and affronted when another person expressed disagreement (not in any abusive terms**) with their personal preferences. (** Such as by saying "I don't enjoy that" or "I prefer X".)
It seems like this sort of thing would be more likely to happen for beliefs closer to ones self-image core, which weight management and exercise choices may be.
I'm inclined to think - speculating - that this is a trait that may indicate a lack of self-confidence or ego-strength, but I'm not sure. I'm quite confident that when it shows up in communicating with others, it's likely to create nonessential social conflict, affect friendships unfavorably, and generally bring unnecessary negativity into one's life. That would be a sad thing, but not really a blameful one (not a character fault), in my world.
Just my opinion, though.
I think its definitely a character flaw, like a narcissistic type of flaw, their egos are easily damaged because they look outside of themselves and to other people for ego boosts, but unfortunately a common one. But if its sporadic it could also be a bad habit people do to come across as more confident than they are in their decisions, or something they do out of retaliation if they feel threatened or attacked. In this case it’s probably just a sporadic coping type of mechanism but who knows
Part of the reason I think it's not a character fault - at least the thing I was trying to describe isn't, IMO - is that I think it is more likely to come from a position of lack self confidence or low ego strength, i.e., I think it's more sad than blameful. I don't know whether you and I are talking about the same phenomenon coming from the same place, or not; and of course we may just feel differently about it even if we are.
In any case, the OP has stated that it doesn't apply to her.
I imagine that anyone would say it doesn't apply to them. Not saying it does apply to OP, just noting that, as it' something that comes up here often.
I do agree with stephmofo, and I say this as someone who has struggled with low self confidence. I definitely acted in ways I now consider (and did at the time) wrong or immoral with that as my justification (I can't help it, I'm so insecure), and I strongly consider not taking other people's feelings into account just as wrong whatever your personal excuse. So yes, I consider trying to put down others and elevate yourself to be a personality flaw, whatever the alleged reason. I also think it's really easy online to decide that someone who presents as weak can be excused for all kinds of bad behavior and someone who is uncomfortable sharing weakness = okay to attack, and that's another issue.
This is all, of course, just hypothetical, but they are things I think one should consider. As a younger, reasonably thin person I was also really self-hating and insecure and justified lashing out at others and saying I was fat and disgusting in front of those objectively overweight, and I now feel quite a bit of shame about that and am angry at myself and those who try to justify their similar actions as "I can't help it, I'm insecure." Considering others is always possible and generally helps yourself too.
Same thing with "how I do things is correct, how others do things is inferior." Not okay, IMO.3 -
(snip)
What I don't understand is the need -- by OP -- to suggest that counting is wrong for all or not as good as other methods.
(snip)
I'm going to risk going a little meta here.
I'm assuming it's an instance of the phenomenon where a subset of people seem to need to feel that their personal choices are objectively the best, in some universal sense.
I've even encountered people who behaved this way about tastes in music, food, movies, reading matter, clothing styles: They considered a person inferior who didn't share their "good" tastes, and felt personally criticized and affronted when another person expressed disagreement (not in any abusive terms**) with their personal preferences. (** Such as by saying "I don't enjoy that" or "I prefer X".)
It seems like this sort of thing would be more likely to happen for beliefs closer to ones self-image core, which weight management and exercise choices may be.
I'm inclined to think - speculating - that this is a trait that may indicate a lack of self-confidence or ego-strength, but I'm not sure. I'm quite confident that when it shows up in communicating with others, it's likely to create nonessential social conflict, affect friendships unfavorably, and generally bring unnecessary negativity into one's life. That would be a sad thing, but not really a blameful one (not a character fault), in my world.
Just my opinion, though.
I think its definitely a character flaw, like a narcissistic type of flaw, their egos are easily damaged because they look outside of themselves and to other people for ego boosts, but unfortunately a common one. But if its sporadic it could also be a bad habit people do to come across as more confident than they are in their decisions, or something they do out of retaliation if they feel threatened or attacked. In this case it’s probably just a sporadic coping type of mechanism but who knows
Part of the reason I think it's not a character fault - at least the thing I was trying to describe isn't, IMO - is that I think it is more likely to come from a position of lack self confidence or low ego strength, i.e., I think it's more sad than blameful. I don't know whether you and I are talking about the same phenomenon coming from the same place, or not; and of course we may just feel differently about it even if we are.
In any case, the OP has stated that it doesn't apply to her.
It's all mute now since the OP quit. I think it was a good decision from what she posted, and she needs to follow her therapy team's advice over anything written on MFP. I sincerely hope she finds her way and has a happy life.6 -
(snip)
What I don't understand is the need -- by OP -- to suggest that counting is wrong for all or not as good as other methods.
(snip)
I'm going to risk going a little meta here.
I'm assuming it's an instance of the phenomenon where a subset of people seem to need to feel that their personal choices are objectively the best, in some universal sense.
I've even encountered people who behaved this way about tastes in music, food, movies, reading matter, clothing styles: They considered a person inferior who didn't share their "good" tastes, and felt personally criticized and affronted when another person expressed disagreement (not in any abusive terms**) with their personal preferences. (** Such as by saying "I don't enjoy that" or "I prefer X".)
It seems like this sort of thing would be more likely to happen for beliefs closer to ones self-image core, which weight management and exercise choices may be.
I'm inclined to think - speculating - that this is a trait that may indicate a lack of self-confidence or ego-strength, but I'm not sure. I'm quite confident that when it shows up in communicating with others, it's likely to create nonessential social conflict, affect friendships unfavorably, and generally bring unnecessary negativity into one's life. That would be a sad thing, but not really a blameful one (not a character fault), in my world.
Just my opinion, though.
I think its definitely a character flaw, like a narcissistic type of flaw, their egos are easily damaged because they look outside of themselves and to other people for ego boosts, but unfortunately a common one. But if its sporadic it could also be a bad habit people do to come across as more confident than they are in their decisions, or something they do out of retaliation if they feel threatened or attacked. In this case it’s probably just a sporadic coping type of mechanism but who knows
Part of the reason I think it's not a character fault - at least the thing I was trying to describe isn't, IMO - is that I think it is more likely to come from a position of lack self confidence or low ego strength, i.e., I think it's more sad than blameful. I don't know whether you and I are talking about the same phenomenon coming from the same place, or not; and of course we may just feel differently about it even if we are.
In any case, the OP has stated that it doesn't apply to her.
I imagine that anyone would say it doesn't apply to them. Not saying it does apply to OP, just noting that, as it' something that comes up here often.
I do agree with stephmofo, and I say this as someone who has struggled with low self confidence. I definitely acted in ways I now consider (and did at the time) wrong or immoral with that as my justification (I can't help it, I'm so insecure), and I strongly consider not taking other people's feelings into account just as wrong whatever your personal excuse. So yes, I consider trying to put down others and elevate yourself to be a personality flaw, whatever the alleged reason. I also think it's really easy online to decide that someone who presents as weak can be excused for all kinds of bad behavior and someone who is uncomfortable sharing weakness = okay to attack, and that's another issue.
This is all, of course, just hypothetical, but they are things I think one should consider. As a younger, reasonably thin person I was also really self-hating and insecure and justified lashing out at others and saying I was fat and disgusting in front of those objectively overweight, and I now feel quite a bit of shame about that and am angry at myself and those who try to justify their similar actions as "I can't help it, I'm insecure." Considering others is always possible and generally helps yourself too.
Same thing with "how I do things is correct, how others do things is inferior." Not okay, IMO.
You know, thinking this over based on what you and @stephmofo wrote, I think you have a point.
I'm enough of a overconfident bulldozer that that kind of behavior just seems (if I can be hyperjudgemental here) pathetic (in the literal sense); and when directed at me, makes me laugh inside (not at all feel bad). I was looking at it less as putting others down, than as trying to climb out of a hole by building oneself** up with puffery (**the one using what amount to put-downs).
You're encouraging me to look at it from a more empathetic perspective - a good thing! - and consider the effect on those who are not very confident, more sensitive, or just otherwise not as able or inclined to let it slide off.
You've persuaded me: A negative trait, when it comes to the behavior. Thank you.2
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