Carbs
Replies
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There are a few reasons I suggested 40% protein. The first one you mentioned, appetite control. Protein generally keeps you feeling fuller longer. The second is that in terms of volume, eating say 300 calories worth of protein will provide a lot more food than 300 calories of carbs or fat, which when you are dieting the volume of food will help.
Third, the thermic effect of food is critical when putting together a diet. By far, protein has the highest thermic effect of any of the 3 marco nutrients at about 20-25% where carbs are 8-10% and fat is about 2%. Perhaps when you get to the point of maintaining you could go to 25-30% but starting at only 25% of your calories from protein, I think would be too low.
Again, everyone is different. I am sure people have lost weight going lower however for me I have lost 35 lbs and have kept it off for 4 years. When I started I actually did 45% protein and now at maintenance I am at around 35%. I’m not a bodybuilder or anything like that, I am an average guy in his 40’s.
Try out different protocols and see what works for you.
huh?
for volume - i can get a heck of a lot more bang for my buck with green vegetables/carrots etc - for 300cal then i could for protein (since 300cal is just a touch over 5oz of cooked chicken)10 -
There are a few reasons I suggested 40% protein. The first one you mentioned, appetite control. Protein generally keeps you feeling fuller longer. The second is that in terms of volume, eating say 300 calories worth of protein will provide a lot more food than 300 calories of carbs or fat, which when you are dieting the volume of food will help.
Third, the thermic effect of food is critical when putting together a diet. By far, protein has the highest thermic effect of any of the 3 marco nutrients at about 20-25% where carbs are 8-10% and fat is about 2%. Perhaps when you get to the point of maintaining you could go to 25-30% but starting at only 25% of your calories from protein, I think would be too low.
Again, everyone is different. I am sure people have lost weight going lower however for me I have lost 35 lbs and have kept it off for 4 years. When I started I actually did 45% protein and now at maintenance I am at around 35%. I’m not a bodybuilder or anything like that, I am an average guy in his 40’s.
Try out different protocols and see what works for you.
I'm not convinced that the thermic effect of food is critical. I honestly never considered it when I was losing weight and I haven't considered it once in the five years I've been maintaining. I just focused on getting enough protein and fat ("enough" for me was well below 40%, as I find carbohydrate-rich foods like beans and broccoli and potatoes to be filling too).
If you're going to use your 35 pounds lost and four years as evidence for your claims, I'll point out that I've lost 40 pounds and kept it off for five years. This doesn't mean that I should recommend my approach as the only right way, it just means that successful people have had a variety of approaches, so it might be better to phrase your recommendations as what *worked for you* instead of putting them forth as some sort of universal law.10 -
There are a few reasons I suggested 40% protein. The first one you mentioned, appetite control. Protein generally keeps you feeling fuller longer. The second is that in terms of volume, eating say 300 calories worth of protein will provide a lot more food than 300 calories of carbs or fat, which when you are dieting the volume of food will help.
If one is hungry, upping protein is one thing to try (there are others), but I would not assume a diet that already had 20-30% protein (especially if that was also 0.8 g/lb of a healthy goal weight) would be inadequate for satiety. Certainly many of us demonstrate that it is not.
As for volume, it depends. I personally find mixed and balanced meals (veg, protein, starch, with some fat as accent) to be optimally sating for me. One way to up volume if that is a concern is to add more vegetables. I would not typically rely on protein for volume. (Fruits and potatoes also have decent volume for the cals, IME.) Lean meats of course can too, but I would still find a diet that was 40% protein to be inadequately varied for my taste and not inherently of a greater volume than what I ate when losing.Third, the thermic effect of food is critical when putting together a diet. By far, protein has the highest thermic effect of any of the 3 marco nutrients at about 20-25% where carbs are 8-10% and fat is about 2%. Perhaps when you get to the point of maintaining you could go to 25-30% but starting at only 25% of your calories from protein, I think would be too low.
Thermic value shouldn't make much difference. In my example, I was aiming for 96g of protein, and you claim I should have started at 160 g. Under your plan (if I subbed protein for carbs), the difference in cals from digestion would be at most around 35-40. And that's ignoring the fact that there probably is a thermic benefit to more fiber that is not considered here (and that US labels and nutrition information tends to include more cals from fiber than likely absorbed).
Even beyond this, the question becomes whether it is somehow a benefit to me to eat a diet that is harder for me to manage and enjoy that is essentially 1638 cals vs. one that is 1600? I doubt it. For just one example, I find chicken breast roasted bone-in, skin on (eaten with potatoes and lots of non starchy veg) on more overall satisfying than plain chicken breast. There is a benefit to satiety to the extra fat (or to ending the meal with a pear) than exceeds being able to eat a few more cals (hypothetically) of boneless, skinless chicken breast and forgoing the skin and the pear or eating fewer potatoes, etc. Satiety is more than grams of protein or being able to eat the most cals on paper.5 -
Even beyond this, the question becomes whether it is somehow a benefit to me to eat a diet that is harder for me to manage and enjoy that is essentially 1638 cals vs. one that is 1600? I doubt it. For just one example, I find chicken breast roasted bone-in, skin (eaten with potatoes and lots of non starchy veg) on more overall satisfying than plain chicken breast. There is a benefit to satiety to the extra fat (or to ending the meal with a pear) than exceeds being able to eat a few more cals (hypothetically) of boneless, skinless chicken breast and forgoing the skin and the pear or eating fewer potatoes, etc. Satiety is more than grams of protein or being able to eat the most cals on paper.
I feel like too many people underrate the value of regularly eating meals that you truly enjoy while you're losing weight. Psychologically, I felt a huge boost on the days when I was really looking forward to my lunch or dinner and sometimes it was the slices of avocado or the baked potato or the pineapple (insert your favorite foods here) that I was looking forward to. For me, that was worth more for compliance than a more theoretically perfected-macro meal that didn't get me excited.
Obviously, if one finds that the extra protein is the key for compliance, that means it's the best path *for them*. I would just advocate that people experiment and find what works best for them. For many of us, having the varied meals that we enjoy will outrank the benefit of 40% protein.
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There are a few reasons I suggested 40% protein. The first one you mentioned, appetite control. Protein generally keeps you feeling fuller longer. The second is that in terms of volume, eating say 300 calories worth of protein will provide a lot more food than 300 calories of carbs or fat, which when you are dieting the volume of food will help.
Third, the thermic effect of food is critical when putting together a diet. By far, protein has the highest thermic effect of any of the 3 marco nutrients at about 20-25% where carbs are 8-10% and fat is about 2%. Perhaps when you get to the point of maintaining you could go to 25-30% but starting at only 25% of your calories from protein, I think would be too low.
Again, everyone is different. I am sure people have lost weight going lower however for me I have lost 35 lbs and have kept it off for 4 years. When I started I actually did 45% protein and now at maintenance I am at around 35%. I’m not a bodybuilder or anything like that, I am an average guy in his 40’s.
Try out different protocols and see what works for you.
If you had said it that way to start, there would've been less push-back.
I also think that if "300 calories worth of protein will provide a lot more food than 300 calories of carbs", you're eating very different sorts of carb-rich foods than I am. Cabbage, for example - a food I love, and find filling in the quantities I eat it - is 79% carbs, 3% fat, 18% protein. A whole (7") head of it is 312 calories. That's a lot of food. (Yes, I could and have eaten a whole head of cabbage, though half a head is a more normal serving.
).
IMO, the percentages really don't much matter, for nutrition. The actual amounts matter more. Women my size/age seem (according to what they say here) to maintain on calorie levels that differ by as much as 100%. Do their protein needs differ by 100%? I'm doubtful.
Also, I agree with Lemur (feeling like a broken record as I say that) that there are indications of higher TEF for certain higher-fiber foods. It's true that certain studies show higher weight loss for higher protein diets, but the reasons can be complex. As Jane observes, the TEF is a tiny number of calories, in the big picture - certainly not enough to outweigh compliance-related factors, which may favor protein or not.
Since we're comparing credentials, or profiles, or something here: Age 64, reasonably average person (hypothyroid, which some people think matters, but I don't), lost around 50 pounds, maintaining for 4+ years after 3+ decades of obesity beforehand, eating 100g protein minimum, 50g fat minimum, carbs and craft beer to balance calories at maintenance levels over time. I don't care one bit about the percents, but looking back it appears to be around 48c/30f/22p, most of the time, more or less.
Nutrition is important IMO, but satiation is very individual.6 -
I'm lucky to be getting 30% protein and it's a struggle a lot of the days and many times I have to use a protein shake to get close to that number (109g daily for me). And focusing on trying to hit that protein number often times means I'm eating more meat and dairy than I am vegetables, which I don't like to do.
@mmapags Is that 0.35g fat per lb of ideal weight like the protein, or your current weight? Though truth be told, I have an even harder time getting in fats than I do protein. My natural way of eating is automatically low fat, high carb as the foods that primarily fill me up are carbs first, proteins a close second, with fats coming in a very distant third.1 -
bmeadows380 wrote: »I'm lucky to be getting 30% protein and it's a struggle a lot of the days and many times I have to use a protein shake to get close to that number (109g daily for me). And focusing on trying to hit that protein number often times means I'm eating more meat and dairy than I am vegetables, which I don't like to do.
@mmapags Is that 0.35g fat per lb of ideal weight like the protein, or your current weight? Though truth be told, I have an even harder time getting in fats than I do protein. My natural way of eating is automatically low fat, high carb as the foods that primarily fill me up are carbs first, proteins a close second, with fats coming in a very distant third.
That number for fat is generally stated as "per lb of body weight." Protein is stated differently because it is about supporting lean mass and someone who is not that active might be able to do ok on less. But muscle mass preservation is important while losing and protein is important for that as well as muscle growth.
For protein, according to the research, there is a diminishing rate of return beyond 1 gram per lb of lean mass. If someone prefers more, no harm, but there is no need to force feed it. There is some evidence that Muscle Protein Synthesis may be reduced as people age, so a little more can be a good thing for one as they age.
Eric Helms has published some really interesting summaries of the research on protein intake.
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All this protein! All those farts!
https://www.reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceUK/comments/7o3y67/sacked_for_farting/0 -
What’s been working for me is eating 1g-1.3g/lb of lean mass of protein. Which for me is 170-225g of protein which will come out to approx 700-900 calories (at 900 cals that = 40% of my daily cals). I try to stay around 20% of my calories from fat and make the rest up in carbs. Some days I do great some days the balance gets off. Some days I noticed that my workouts have lacked energy and I’ll drop a little protein and add more carbs for the next days workout to give me a boost.
At the end of the day you got to find what works for you and your body. You got to find what you can sustain and be consistent with that also gives you the results you are looking for.0 -
Thank you all for your comments.im a bit overwhelmed by so much advice.but I'll try and understand it and apply as much as I can.2
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Well I'm now just working on my weight .I switched from a jimmy dean sandwich to a bagel which is a 100 calories less .I noticed I got hungry at 11 instead of 12. And I lost a few pounds.maybe I was eating to much for breakfast0
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Well I'm trying to eat alot of antivirus foods such as peanuts honey nuts.maybe it will help stop this virus.we are waiting for a vaccine but until then this is something we can do1
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jimsessions8 wrote: »Well I'm trying to eat alot of antivirus foods such as peanuts honey nuts.maybe it will help stop this virus.we are waiting for a vaccine but until then this is something we can do
You think there are foods that will help prevent getting caronavirus?5 -
Well they are anti virus foods.it should help your body resist Corona. I felt a little weird last week.after eating nuts honey apples for a week I feel better.right now it's all we got right now.2
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jimsessions8 wrote: »Well they are anti virus foods.it should help your body resist Corona. I felt a little weird last week.after eating nuts honey apples for a week I feel better.right now it's all we got right now.
What is the evidence that these foods will help your body resist this virus?5 -
jimsessions8 wrote: »Well they are anti virus foods.it should help your body resist Corona. I felt a little weird last week.after eating nuts honey apples for a week I feel better.right now it's all we got right now.
Sure, to the same extent all foods are anti-viral as starvation is a pretty bad for the immune system. Beyond that, no idea what you're on about with that.5 -
jimsessions8 wrote: »Well they are anti virus foods.it should help your body resist Corona. I felt a little weird last week.after eating nuts honey apples for a week I feel better.right now it's all we got right now.
What's the evidence for honey, apples, and nuts?
I eat nuts daily, fruit (sometimes apples, not usually) daily, and honey rarely, just because I think the first two are great additions if you want a healthful diet and I'm not that into adding sweetener to things (personal preference, not health), but heck, I'd be open to actual evidence.0 -
jimsessions8 wrote: »Well they are anti virus foods.it should help your body resist Corona. I felt a little weird last week.after eating nuts honey apples for a week I feel better.right now it's all we got right now.
... this makes me sad.
You cant form antibodies for a virus we've never had yet.
Wash your hands
Its 0 calories to wash your hands and far more effective then the foods you're eating6 -
Everything I know I learned on the internet.i looked under antiviral foods and herbs I thought I'd try some of them for a week. I've lost 20 pounds and feel better0
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jimsessions8 wrote: »Everything I know I learned on the internet.i looked under antiviral foods and herbs I thought I'd try some of them for a week. I've lost 20 pounds and feel better
Don't believe all the nonsense you read on the internet.4
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