Coronavirus prep
Replies
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MikePfirrman wrote: »MikePfirrman wrote: »Potential great news but it's too early to tell if this will work. I'm hearing of rapid potential treatments, not vaccines. One is the one Snowflake mentioned around a week ago -- the RA drug which slows the progression in the lungs. This other one, which slows the replication of the virus, might show a lot more promise. It was developed for Ebola.
https://www.biopharmadive.com/news/coronavirus-remdesivir-gilead-antiviral-drug-covid-19/573261/
There's also another strategy I've heard of as well. They take the antibodies from those that have had it and recovered and administer them to people that haven't had it yet. That would be a longer term play, though.
It's not they won't find a vaccine, I think they will, but these are strategies meant to minimize deaths until we find a vaccine. World wide, pharmaceutical companies are working hard to find solutions.
The RA drug is hydroxychloroquine, otherwise known as Plaquenil. I've been on it since 2004. The data coming out of China and S Korea as far as the impact of the drug on COVID-19 is very encouraging, both as a treatment to lessen severity, and as prophylactic. They really need to speed up the evaluatory process of that one. Hydroxychloroquine is generic, cheap, and widely/easily available - a paradigm shift from the whole "18 months to develop a vaccine" mantra, although it is not a vaccine.
The notion that something good might come from having the disease process that led to being on the drug all these years is so twistedly ironic and bizarre I can't even describe it. I've got family members hounding me for a handful or two of those things.
I'm actually reading about five different ones at the same time. They aren't a vaccine, so it doesn't really change the time frame for vaccines (though I've read they just skipped the animal testing, going straight to human trials on vaccines). What the RA pills do is reduce your immune system, which isn't great for prevention of the COVID-19. But when it attacks the lungs, there's a cytokine storm, where you immune system attacks itself and (from a very layman's perspective), what's left of your lungs turn to fluid and you can't breathe. The RA meds are for those that progress to the stage where the lungs are filling with fluid. That can stop that enough until you recover.
Not really. Reports out of S Korea and China are that hydroxychloroquine is not just effective for lessening the symptoms of COVID-19, but also as a prophylactic - i.e. prevention of onset.
Needless to say, this will probably not turn out to be the silver bullet that people are hoping for, but if it works somewhat, for some people, it's a lot better than nothing, and could save lives while waiting for a vaccine.
FYI Hydroxycholoquine does not reduce your immune system. That is to say, it is not an "immunosuppresant" like Humira or Enbrel, which is why it's traditionally the first-line treatment for rheumatology patients before getting into methotrexate and all that stuff - i.e. "start small". For some patients (I was one of them) hydroxycholorquine is enough on its own to manage a rheumatological problem, whereas others must progress to harder-core interventions. Technically speaking, hydroxychloroquine is classified as a DMARD - disease modifying anti-rheumatic drug. DMARDs are not immunosuppresants. They alter the functioning of the immune system, as oppose to reducing it. In so doing, they modify things like the ph balance in some cells, which in the case of COVID-19, turns out to be helpful.
Unlike immunosuppresants, which have many side effects and can cause more problems than they solve because they are indeed reducing your immune system response (think infections), hydroxychloroquine has a very light side effect footprint and is well tolerated. I think I may have had an upset stomach for a week when I started taking it sixteen years ago, which is common, but since then, nothing. It's like popping an aspirin or a Lipitor; there isn't much to it. So my feeling is, if it can help some people, they ought to be thinking about getting it out there en masse. In conjunction with working their a$$es off to develop a vaccine.10 -
Our local news channel shared a very disturbing story tonight of a local couple who both ended up in the hospital and tested positive. The husband caught it first, went to the ER, was misdiagnosed with the flu. A week later his wife developed a little cough. The following day she was ill enough to go to the hospital. On day 3 she was medically sedated, put on a ventilator and emergency transported to Emory. She's still in critical condition. She's 36 with no underlying health problems.
One thing that'd be really helpful is if the powers-that-be could stop pretending that COVID-19 is a disease of 80 year olds and therefore that the main thing the rest of us should worry about is helping out the ole' folks in the nursing homes.
Healthy 40 year old doctors are dying from caring for caronavirus patients, as are plenty of other middle aged and younger people in some countries, even if the disease's bias is toward older folk (for now - viruses mutate).
I think the powers-that-be wanted to avoid a panic and slanted the initial story-line toward "do your part to save others who are at risk, even though you basically aren't" as a result, because it's less panic-inducing than "leave your house and you could die." But events on the ground have outpaced the messaging and it's time for folks to face up to what this pandemic is about.
Even as the govt is more or less still sticking to its "under 60? Don't sweat it!" narrative, whole cities are in lockdown. There's quite a disconnect between the verbiage and the actual policies. Actions speak louder than words, no?17 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »DecadeDuchess wrote: »I am not understanding all of those that're supposedly taken this seriously, yet plan to and/or already're doing outdoor activities. If we were to pass by each other upon a hiking trail, it's like passing by each other anywhere else needlessly. Actually it'd most likely be worse, due to our heavy breathing via exercise exertion. Than just casually walking via 1 room to another within a climate controlled environment, where our breathing intensity'd remain normal.
It's the outdoors. Can't people give each six feet (or 20 feet) berth?snowflake954 wrote: »DecadeDuchess wrote: »I am not understanding all of those that're supposedly taken this seriously, yet plan to and/or already're doing outdoor activities. If we were to pass by each other upon a hiking trail, it's like passing by each other anywhere else needlessly. Actually it'd most likely be worse, due to our heavy breathing via exercise exertion. Than just casually walking via 1 room to another within a climate controlled environment, where our breathing intensity'd remain normal.
You need to keep a 4 ft--1 meter distance. Zigzag if you meet someone.DecadeDuchess wrote: »I am not understanding all of those that're supposedly taken this seriously, yet plan to and/or already're doing outdoor activities. If we were to pass by each other upon a hiking trail, it's like passing by each other anywhere else needlessly. Actually it'd most likely be worse, due to our heavy breathing via exercise exertion. Than just casually walking via 1 room to another within a climate controlled environment, where our breathing intensity'd remain normal.
Well my garden is on my own property and nobody else lives here.
Hiking if you see someone then stepping off the trail a 6 to 10 feet is absolutely a possibility near me.
Biking you quickly pass and you can do so at that6 ft distance.
Getting outside is good for mental health, vitamin d levels, and overall health but yes a big passing space.
For example Mount Everest's vast, yet there're trails where traffic jams form. If you take all of the regulars, that use a hiking trail & now mix the people that're unable to go to their gym they'll most likely be congestion of people, where which maintaining a reasonable distance between them might be implausible. Otherwise, it depends.NorthCascades wrote: »DecadeDuchess wrote: »I am not understanding all of those that're supposedly taken this seriously, yet plan to and/or already're doing outdoor activities. If we were to pass by each other upon a hiking trail, it's like passing by each other anywhere else needlessly. Actually it'd most likely be worse, due to our heavy breathing via exercise exertion. Than just casually walking via 1 room to another within a climate controlled environment, where our breathing intensity'd remain normal.
I can spend an hour or two at the Nordic ski area, and pass the few people I see with 6 feet of space, in a couple seconds. It's true the virus doesn't know where you are, the difference though is you pass by so many more people at the grocery store, and spend more time in the presence of strangers. You have to go to the store at least occasionally, you can't stockpile 2 months worth of milk, it'll go bad.
The difference being's that, grocery shopping's necessary but otherwise, I agree.2 -
DecadeDuchess wrote: »Walmart isn't delivering or allowing any advance choice, of future delivery dates & my local grocery store's time slots're sold out, through March 22nd.
@DecadeDuchess I placed an order today and there wasn't any information about this, it was Walmart.com not the grocery though. Is it the same with Walmart.com? I have some stuff like cat litter I'll really need next week so if it's true for walmart.com then I'll need to brave the stores.
I meant: Walmart Grocery. I know that with Walmart, next day delivery was unavailable.0 -
Antiopelle wrote: »Update from Belgium: our neighbour country France is in complete lockdown, as well as Switzerland. We now have over a 1.000 reported cases with 10 fatalities (for a pop of 12M) and we expect to go from semi lockdown to full by the end of the week. Borders are closing.
It is surreal! A few weeks ago I told hubbie how surreal it was that a complete province in China was having a lockdown, thinking about a few horror movies we've seen. And now, we are in the same situation.
People, if you are not in a lockdown yet, try to self quarantine as much as possible, even if you are young and in good health. Do not visit your (grand)parents, but call/skype them. Cancel all parties and private gatherings and do not hoard !
Here, in Italy, we have 27,000 infected (that we know of-counted), 2,000 deaths and about the same amount are "cured". I say that because even if you're cured they are saying that your lungs can look like swiss cheese. So it doesn't end there. Perhaps that's why China is terrified of reinfection.18 -
Our local news channel shared a very disturbing story tonight of a local couple who both ended up in the hospital and tested positive. The husband caught it first, went to the ER, was misdiagnosed with the flu. A week later his wife developed a little cough. The following day she was ill enough to go to the hospital. On day 3 she was medically sedated, put on a ventilator and emergency transported to Emory. She's still in critical condition. She's 36 with no underlying health problems.
One thing that'd be really helpful is if the powers-that-be could stop pretending that COVID-19 is a disease of 80 year olds and therefore that the main thing the rest of us should worry about is helping out the ole' folks in the nursing homes.
Healthy 40 year old doctors are dying from caring for caronavirus patients, as are plenty of other middle aged and younger people in some countries, even if the disease's bias is toward older folk (for now - viruses mutate).
I think the powers-that-be wanted to avoid a panic and slanted the initial story-line toward "do your part to save others who are at risk, even though you basically aren't" as a result, because it's less panic-inducing than "leave your house and you could die." But events on the ground have outpaced the messaging and it's time for folks to face up to what this pandemic is about.
Even as the govt is more or less still sticking to its "under 60? Don't sweat it!" narrative, whole cities are in lockdown. There's quite a disconnect between the verbiage and the actual policies. Actions speak louder than words, no?
Exactly what you said. Thanks for your posts. This virus is capable of causing panic--that's why things are done in steps, so people will get used to the idea and come to realize that it is very serious, and you need drastic measures. Those drastic measures will come. People will now accept them. The government can shut businesses down, and tell people to stay home, etc.. But they cannot make them. The populace has to be behind this. The situation is evolving constantly--a bit like COV19.12 -
DecadeDuchess wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »DecadeDuchess wrote: »I am not understanding all of those that're supposedly taken this seriously, yet plan to and/or already're doing outdoor activities. If we were to pass by each other upon a hiking trail, it's like passing by each other anywhere else needlessly. Actually it'd most likely be worse, due to our heavy breathing via exercise exertion. Than just casually walking via 1 room to another within a climate controlled environment, where our breathing intensity'd remain normal.
It's the outdoors. Can't people give each six feet (or 20 feet) berth?snowflake954 wrote: »DecadeDuchess wrote: »I am not understanding all of those that're supposedly taken this seriously, yet plan to and/or already're doing outdoor activities. If we were to pass by each other upon a hiking trail, it's like passing by each other anywhere else needlessly. Actually it'd most likely be worse, due to our heavy breathing via exercise exertion. Than just casually walking via 1 room to another within a climate controlled environment, where our breathing intensity'd remain normal.
You need to keep a 4 ft--1 meter distance. Zigzag if you meet someone.DecadeDuchess wrote: »I am not understanding all of those that're supposedly taken this seriously, yet plan to and/or already're doing outdoor activities. If we were to pass by each other upon a hiking trail, it's like passing by each other anywhere else needlessly. Actually it'd most likely be worse, due to our heavy breathing via exercise exertion. Than just casually walking via 1 room to another within a climate controlled environment, where our breathing intensity'd remain normal.
Well my garden is on my own property and nobody else lives here.
Hiking if you see someone then stepping off the trail a 6 to 10 feet is absolutely a possibility near me.
Biking you quickly pass and you can do so at that6 ft distance.
Getting outside is good for mental health, vitamin d levels, and overall health but yes a big passing space.
For example Mount Everest's vast, yet there're trails where traffic jams form. If you take all of the regulars, that use a hiking trail & now mix the people that're unable to go to their gym they'll most likely be congestion of people, where which maintaining a reasonable distance between them might be implausible. Otherwise, it depends.NorthCascades wrote: »DecadeDuchess wrote: »I am not understanding all of those that're supposedly taken this seriously, yet plan to and/or already're doing outdoor activities. If we were to pass by each other upon a hiking trail, it's like passing by each other anywhere else needlessly. Actually it'd most likely be worse, due to our heavy breathing via exercise exertion. Than just casually walking via 1 room to another within a climate controlled environment, where our breathing intensity'd remain normal.
I can spend an hour or two at the Nordic ski area, and pass the few people I see with 6 feet of space, in a couple seconds. It's true the virus doesn't know where you are, the difference though is you pass by so many more people at the grocery store, and spend more time in the presence of strangers. You have to go to the store at least occasionally, you can't stockpile 2 months worth of milk, it'll go bad.
The difference being's that, grocery shopping's necessary but otherwise, I agree.
I go for a speed walk around our huge piazza in Italy for 45 min, and I leave at 6 in the morning--not a soul around. I'd say your fears are premature.16 -
I was at the grocery shop today and chips, of all things, are nowhere to be found. No potato chips, no corn chips, no rice chips, nothing. I think people may be hoarding them because it's a good shelf stable source of calories.
Edit: Interestingly, toilet paper is still available. Not a full shelf like usual, but still. Might have to do with the fact that many houses have bidets (including ours) or are used to washing up.6 -
News from Italy. All medical students near to finishing their studies will be put to work in the hospitals to help doctors and nurses. They made a clip of nurses after their turns. Poor things have cuts on their faces where the masks are tight. They are thanking the public for their support, and asking everyone to follow the guidelines. There are banners up outside all the hospitals, thanking the staff. Some are made by kids.24
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Antiopelle wrote: »Update from Belgium: our neighbour country France is in complete lockdown, as well as Switzerland. We now have over a 1.000 reported cases with 10 fatalities (for a pop of 12M) and we expect to go from semi lockdown to full by the end of the week. Borders are closing.
It is surreal! A few weeks ago I told hubbie how surreal it was that a complete province in China was having a lockdown, thinking about a few horror movies we've seen. And now, we are in the same situation.
People, if you are not in a lockdown yet, try to self quarantine as much as possible, even if you are young and in good health. Do not visit your (grand)parents, but call/skype them. Cancel all parties and private gatherings and do not hoard !
3 hours ago since my post and we went from 1.000 to 1.250 confirmed cases...15 -
DecadeDuchess wrote: »I am not understanding all of those that're supposedly taken this seriously, yet plan to and/or already're doing outdoor activities. If we were to pass by each other upon a hiking trail, it's like passing by each other anywhere else needlessly. Actually it'd most likely be worse, due to our heavy breathing via exercise exertion. Than just casually walking via 1 room to another within a climate controlled environment, where our breathing intensity'd remain normal.
I read that even at two metres distance, you can contract the virus if your exposure lasts 15 minutes or more.
Many variables in that statement though. My guess is that it was referring to indoor conversations, outdoors might be safer. But you have a point about someone breathing hard from exertion. In my mind it's somewhere between someone coughing near you, expelling virus containing water droplets more forcefully, and normal conversation.
Me, I'm willing to take walks outdoors and have been doing so in my neighbourhood. I passed a neighbour on the sidewalk yesterday who I hadn't seen in ages. I would have loved to catch up a little, but we both just did a smile and wave.9 -
NorthCascades wrote: »DecadeDuchess wrote: »I am not understanding all of those that're supposedly taken this seriously, yet plan to and/or already're doing outdoor activities. If we were to pass by each other upon a hiking trail, it's like passing by each other anywhere else needlessly. Actually it'd most likely be worse, due to our heavy breathing via exercise exertion. Than just casually walking via 1 room to another within a climate controlled environment, where our breathing intensity'd remain normal.
I can spend an hour or two at the Nordic ski area, and pass the few people I see with 6 feet of space, in a couple seconds. It's true the virus doesn't know where you are, the difference though is you pass by so many more people at the grocery store, and spend more time in the presence of strangers. You have to go to the store at least occasionally, you can't stockpile 2 months worth of milk, it'll go bad.
I grabbed a couple things at the grocery store yesterday and the man behind me in line stood so close that I could smell his breath. I'm loathe to go again any time soon.
ETA: I have a bag of milk in the freezer and a couple cans of condensed milk.8 -
Those of you who have mentioned buying milk; can't it be frozen? Maybe not as great as fresh but still usable?
Every morning when I wake up, my 1st thought goes to....it all had to be a dream, it feels so unreal.
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DecadeDuchess wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »DecadeDuchess wrote: »I am not understanding all of those that're supposedly taken this seriously, yet plan to and/or already're doing outdoor activities. If we were to pass by each other upon a hiking trail, it's like passing by each other anywhere else needlessly. Actually it'd most likely be worse, due to our heavy breathing via exercise exertion. Than just casually walking via 1 room to another within a climate controlled environment, where our breathing intensity'd remain normal.
It's the outdoors. Can't people give each six feet (or 20 feet) berth?snowflake954 wrote: »DecadeDuchess wrote: »I am not understanding all of those that're supposedly taken this seriously, yet plan to and/or already're doing outdoor activities. If we were to pass by each other upon a hiking trail, it's like passing by each other anywhere else needlessly. Actually it'd most likely be worse, due to our heavy breathing via exercise exertion. Than just casually walking via 1 room to another within a climate controlled environment, where our breathing intensity'd remain normal.
You need to keep a 4 ft--1 meter distance. Zigzag if you meet someone.DecadeDuchess wrote: »I am not understanding all of those that're supposedly taken this seriously, yet plan to and/or already're doing outdoor activities. If we were to pass by each other upon a hiking trail, it's like passing by each other anywhere else needlessly. Actually it'd most likely be worse, due to our heavy breathing via exercise exertion. Than just casually walking via 1 room to another within a climate controlled environment, where our breathing intensity'd remain normal.
Well my garden is on my own property and nobody else lives here.
Hiking if you see someone then stepping off the trail a 6 to 10 feet is absolutely a possibility near me.
Biking you quickly pass and you can do so at that6 ft distance.
Getting outside is good for mental health, vitamin d levels, and overall health but yes a big passing space.
For example Mount Everest's vast, yet there're trails where traffic jams form. If you take all of the regulars, that use a hiking trail & now mix the people that're unable to go to their gym they'll most likely be congestion of people, where which maintaining a reasonable distance between them might be implausible. Otherwise, it depends.NorthCascades wrote: »DecadeDuchess wrote: »I am not understanding all of those that're supposedly taken this seriously, yet plan to and/or already're doing outdoor activities. If we were to pass by each other upon a hiking trail, it's like passing by each other anywhere else needlessly. Actually it'd most likely be worse, due to our heavy breathing via exercise exertion. Than just casually walking via 1 room to another within a climate controlled environment, where our breathing intensity'd remain normal.
I can spend an hour or two at the Nordic ski area, and pass the few people I see with 6 feet of space, in a couple seconds. It's true the virus doesn't know where you are, the difference though is you pass by so many more people at the grocery store, and spend more time in the presence of strangers. You have to go to the store at least occasionally, you can't stockpile 2 months worth of milk, it'll go bad.
The difference being's that, grocery shopping's necessary but otherwise, I agree.
Not really a fair comparison. Everest has a narrow summit season and tourist companies are happy to pack as many people on the peak as possible during that time frame. General outdoor activities aren't going to have that same demand. Especially now. Although, if it were warmer, camping sounds good right about now.10 -
Milk can be frozen. My grandmother did it all the time. Open it up and pour off a bit first, since it expands when frozen. It just takes up shedloads of freezer space.Those of you who have mentioned buying milk; can't it be frozen? Maybe not as great as fresh but still usable?
Every morning when I wake up, my 1st thought goes to....it all had to be a dream, it feels so unreal.8 -
Antiopelle wrote: »Antiopelle wrote: »Update from Belgium: our neighbour country France is in complete lockdown, as well as Switzerland. We now have over a 1.000 reported cases with 10 fatalities (for a pop of 12M) and we expect to go from semi lockdown to full by the end of the week. Borders are closing.
It is surreal! A few weeks ago I told hubbie how surreal it was that a complete province in China was having a lockdown, thinking about a few horror movies we've seen. And now, we are in the same situation.
People, if you are not in a lockdown yet, try to self quarantine as much as possible, even if you are young and in good health. Do not visit your (grand)parents, but call/skype them. Cancel all parties and private gatherings and do not hoard !
3 hours ago since my post and we went from 1.000 to 1.250 confirmed cases...
Oh 1,250. I was trying to figure out how you have .25 of a case.
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nutmegoreo wrote: »sugaraddict4321 wrote: »Howdy folks, friendly community moderator here.
In order to best help the community, please keep this discussion about actual coronavirus prep/coping solutions and not full of jokes/memes.
We have a chit-chat section for jokes and memes.
Thanks for your cooperation. :flowerforyou:
Best regards,
Sugar
MFP Moderator
Many of us have that section blocked for a reason.
Agreed!
And once in a while, a little levity is *exactly* what this situation calls for, especially for those who suffer from anxiety and depression.22 -
snickerscharlie wrote: »nutmegoreo wrote: »sugaraddict4321 wrote: »Howdy folks, friendly community moderator here.
In order to best help the community, please keep this discussion about actual coronavirus prep/coping solutions and not full of jokes/memes.
We have a chit-chat section for jokes and memes.
Thanks for your cooperation. :flowerforyou:
Best regards,
Sugar
MFP Moderator
Many of us have that section blocked for a reason.
Agreed!
And once in a while, a little levity is *exactly* what this situation calls for, especially for those who suffer from anxiety and depression.
So much this... I don't see this discussion derailed because of a few jokes during this very trying time.19 -
Antiopelle wrote: »Antiopelle wrote: »Update from Belgium: our neighbour country France is in complete lockdown, as well as Switzerland. We now have over a 1.000 reported cases with 10 fatalities (for a pop of 12M) and we expect to go from semi lockdown to full by the end of the week. Borders are closing.
It is surreal! A few weeks ago I told hubbie how surreal it was that a complete province in China was having a lockdown, thinking about a few horror movies we've seen. And now, we are in the same situation.
People, if you are not in a lockdown yet, try to self quarantine as much as possible, even if you are young and in good health. Do not visit your (grand)parents, but call/skype them. Cancel all parties and private gatherings and do not hoard !
3 hours ago since my post and we went from 1.000 to 1.250 confirmed cases...
Switzerland is at 2330 cases. In a population of 8 million...
The hospital I work (worked?) as an intern (not medical or nursing) only has 3 beds equipped with the necessary equipment for respiratory failure. They're working on getting 3 more beds set up. There's a handful of cases hospitalized but numbers are rising fast.
As non medically essential, I've been sent to work from home. I have enough work for 1 week, but need to work 3 more weeks to get credit for the semester. Many students, myself included, are not sure how the semester is going to end and if they're going to have to add a year to their studies.
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goldthistime wrote: »DecadeDuchess wrote: »I am not understanding all of those that're supposedly taken this seriously, yet plan to and/or already're doing outdoor activities. If we were to pass by each other upon a hiking trail, it's like passing by each other anywhere else needlessly. Actually it'd most likely be worse, due to our heavy breathing via exercise exertion. Than just casually walking via 1 room to another within a climate controlled environment, where our breathing intensity'd remain normal.
I read that even at two metres distance, you can contract the virus if your exposure lasts 15 minutes or more.
Many variables in that statement though. My guess is that it was referring to indoor conversations, outdoors might be safer. But you have a point about someone breathing hard from exertion. In my mind it's somewhere between someone coughing near you, expelling virus containing water droplets more forcefully, and normal conversation.
Me, I'm willing to take walks outdoors and have been doing so in my neighbourhood. I passed a neighbour on the sidewalk yesterday who I hadn't seen in ages. I would have loved to catch up a little, but we both just did a smile and wave.
I think you're pretty accurate. The real concern, and Snowflake mentioned this, is that early on, there was a bus that everyone got infected from a symptomatic person -- everyone within 13 feet -- except those with masks. So, I believe, for good reason BTW, they are saying don't get masks because docs and nurses can't even get them right now. But it is airborne and I'm hearing many on TV say it's not. I don't agree with that.
I know from rowing, when winded, I see droplets from 2 to 3 feet when I'm breathing REALLY hard. I believe that, if you're outside and keep your distance from people, you'll be just fine.10
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