Coronavirus prep
Replies
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Here's a piece on the TN policy: https://www.timesfreepress.com/news/local/story/2020/may/16/tennessee-gov-bill-lee-takes-heleft-and-right/523162/
Apparently there's bipartisan opposition. I agree with the guy in the article who is concerned it would be a disincentive to test.5 -
You would think, right? But in practice Tennessee is not at all forthcoming with that information, and blames it on HIPAA. They even refused to identify which ZIP CODES had the most cases because “of the risk of identification.”rheddmobile wrote: »
Yeah, this is problematic, but with people with warrants out for their arrest posting on their doors (falsely) that they have covid in order to avoid being arrested, and others spitting on police and saying they have covid, (both happened locally) it’s not surprising.T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »I just found out that some police and sheriffs here in TN are being given names and addresses of everyone who has tested positive. Health privacy apparently doesn't matter here: https://www.timesfreepress.com/news/local/story/2020/may/08/state-health-department-gives-names-addresses/522572/
In any case it’s also problematic that health privacy has been used as an excuse to prevent people from protecting themselves. If my Kroger had three positive cases yesterday I would like to know that so I can go elsewhere. When someone is a public health risk, that’s not really private information.
In situations like you mentioned, information can be released without actually naming names. If an infected person breaks quarantine, their privacy should not trump public safety but if someone tested positive who works somewhere, that info can be released and still maintain the individual's privacy.
There was an article yesterday about floating pharmacists at Walgreens and Walgreens is refusing to tell the floaters whether the store they are going to had positive cases, when in fact the floater is being called in to replace someone positive, and working with coworkers who haven’t tested positive yet but are being asked to self-isolate because they were exposed to the people who are out. Then after working with those people, the same floater gets sent to a different pharmacy, so the virus gets shipped all around to all the pharmacies, with no one revealing which stores have cases. Because HIPAA. But really, let’s be honest here, because people would avoid them and it would be bad for business if customers and staff knew they were walking into a hot zone.
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T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »I just found out that some police and sheriffs here in TN are being given names and addresses of everyone who has tested positive. Health privacy apparently doesn't matter here: https://www.timesfreepress.com/news/local/story/2020/may/08/state-health-department-gives-names-addresses/522572/
Does HIPPA have an pandemic exception clause I don't know about? I can see wanting to do contract tracing but this seems to be very invasive....and illegal.
HIPAA applies to "covered" health care providers. In most cases, I doubt the state Health Department is a covered health care provider but instead has obtained the private health information from a covered health care provider under a provision of HIPAA that requires private health information to be given to government agencies as required by law (no doubt the Tennessee Health Department has statutory authority to require reporting of cases of a pandemic disease). Then it is sharing the private health information under an MOU for which the inadequate article shared above totally fails to provide the obligations or commitments of law enforcement.* It's highly unusual for an MOU not to have obligations or commitments for both sides. Who enters into a contract where they get nothing in return for whatever they're giving up? That's not even a valid contract.
But this Tennessee policy is counterproductive for two reasons:
1) it will discourage some people who value their privacy from getting tested or seeking treatment when it is otherwise advisable to do so and
2) it will lull law enforcement into forgoing sensible distancing and sanitary precautions when they enter homes where they haven't received a warning that their is a COVID case, as though the absence of a known case means there isn't a case.
It's like somebody was sitting around brainstorming policies that could increase the chances of exposure among law enforcement.
* ETA: typically an MOU between government agencies on sharing individual's private information would include obligations on the part of the receiving agency not to further share the information and to adopt reasonable cybersecurity protections for the information.5 -
I need to vent here because if I vent on my other favorite forum, I could get kicked off.
The owner of the forum is a millionaire, drives a Lamborgini, lives in CA. He posted that he's "over this virus and is no longer wearing a mask unless required".
Why? Why? Why???? Something so simple, takes little to zero effort really, could theoretically protect himself, his family, and every single person he comes into contact with.
SMH, please help me understand???
I'm sure we're ALL over this virus, ALL over hearing/living/breathing it day in and day out. But dang it, I just cannot understand someone's mindset like this.
Be nice to him and ask him pretty please? It wouldn't work. People are going to do what they're going to do, because that's how they feel.
My niece and her dh reopened their medical office recently. She said most of the people are really good and understanding about safety rules but she's had a couple in that refused to wear a mask(even though it's required in medical offices). They accused her of taking away their rights so when she questioned them about what rights exactly, they couldn't answer her. So she asked them if they wanted her to tear up their paperwork and they could find someplace else to go. Not sure of the outcome but come on people. GROW UP!!! Yes, you still have a voice, take it or leave it. And pray you don't make someone else sick in the process.
Of course, I'm OVER the virus. But what I'm really OVER is the thick-headed mindset that completely disregards the safety of everyone else they come in contact with. It's terribly selfish. And YES, stupid.22 -
I need to vent here because if I vent on my other favorite forum, I could get kicked off. The owner of the forum is a millionaire, drives a Lamborgini, lives in CA. He posted that he's "over this virus and is no longer wearing a mask unless required".
Why? Why? Why???? Something so simple, takes little to zero effort really, could theoretically protect himself, his family, and every single person he comes into contact with.
SMH, please help me understand???
I'm sure we're ALL over this virus, ALL over hearing/living/breathing it day in and day out. But dang it, I just cannot understand someone's mindset like this.
Be nice to him and ask him pretty please? It wouldn't work. People are going to do what they're going to do, because that's how they feel.
My niece and her dh reopened their medical office recently. She said most of the people are really good and understanding about safety rules but she's had a couple in that refused to wear a mask(even though it's required in medical offices). They accused her of taking away their rights so when she questioned them about what rights exactly, they couldn't answer her. So she asked them if they wanted her to tear up their paperwork and they could find someplace else to go. Not sure of the outcome but come on people. GROW UP!!! Yes, you still have a voice, take it or leave it. And pray you don't make someone else sick in the process.
Of course, I'm OVER the virus. But what I'm really OVER is the thick-headed mindset that completely disregards the safety of everyone else they come in contact with. It's terribly selfish. And YES, stupid.
And this is exactly the type of behavior that promotes spreading of the virus. This is why we can't have nice things. 😢 And it is also why the thing some of these people say they want - to fully reopen the economy - isn't going to happen anytime soon.8 -
I need to vent here because if I vent on my other favorite forum, I could get kicked off. The owner of the forum is a millionaire, drives a Lamborgini, lives in CA. He posted that he's "over this virus and is no longer wearing a mask unless required".
Why? Why? Why???? Something so simple, takes little to zero effort really, could theoretically protect himself, his family, and every single person he comes into contact with.
SMH, please help me understand???
I'm sure we're ALL over this virus, ALL over hearing/living/breathing it day in and day out. But dang it, I just cannot understand someone's mindset like this.
Be nice to him and ask him pretty please? It wouldn't work. People are going to do what they're going to do, because that's how they feel.
My niece and her dh reopened their medical office recently. She said most of the people are really good and understanding about safety rules but she's had a couple in that refused to wear a mask(even though it's required in medical offices). They accused her of taking away their rights so when she questioned them about what rights exactly, they couldn't answer her. So she asked them if they wanted her to tear up their paperwork and they could find someplace else to go. Not sure of the outcome but come on people. GROW UP!!! Yes, you still have a voice, take it or leave it. And pray you don't make someone else sick in the process.
Of course, I'm OVER the virus. But what I'm really OVER is the thick-headed mindset that completely disregards the safety of everyone else they come in contact with. It's terribly selfish. And YES, stupid.
I had to do some grocery shopping yesterday. While I was shopping, three guys who looked to be very early 20s were walking around the store with no masks and giving thumbs up to everyone they saw wearing a mask and laughing...they were the only 3 in the store without a mask. They were only there to buy beer and were in front of me at checkout, and the cashier wouldn't make the sale. The manager ultimately ended up escorting them out of the store after he said he would call the police. They of course went on and on about their rights to which the manage explained that they have every right not to wear a mask in their private residence or at their house party they were going to, etc...but they had to wear them in the store just like they have to wear shoes and shirts, etc.
IMO, these are the people that are actually scared...not scared of the virus per sei, but scared that in fact there may not be any "going back to normal" or at least not anytime soon. These are the people that glob onto conspiracy theories about the virus because that is somehow easier to process than the prospect of a new normal for the foreseeable future. In a way, I feel bad for them...we had a saying in the Marines, "Adapt and Overcome"...if you can't do that, you're going to have problems.30 -
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/php/open-america/contact-tracing.html
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/downloads/php/principles-contact-tracing-booklet.pdf
https://ec.europa.eu/newsroom/sante/newsletter-specific-archive-issue.cfm?archtype=specific&newsletter_service_id=327&newsletter_issue_id=22243&page=1&fullDate=Wed 13 May 2020&lang=default
The guidelines will be complemented by interoperability specifications for cross-border transmission chains between approved apps. This will be supported by structured discussions between Member States through the eHealth Network. The work of Member States to develop and validate the apps will be supported by the New Generation Internet and m-health communities.
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Great post @cwolfman13! I get too emotional to post much any more. I agree 100%.
I guess it's good that I picked 2020 to try to be kinder online as a New Year's resolution. Because there's a whole lot of silliness online these days. God is testing me, for sure.15 -
I just had a conversation at the grocery store an hour ago. A gentleman mentioned as we walked in (me with my mask and him without) that masks aren't needed any more (Wisconsin). I told him they are needed more than ever because of the idiots who seem to think the state Supreme Court outlawed Covid instead of saying that the Governor exceeded his authority by locking down the state.24
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https://ec.europa.eu/health/sites/health/files/ehealth/docs/contacttracing_mobileapps_guidelines_en.pdf
We have a local yocal call-in radio program so we can mill around and shoot the breeze. Chamber of Commerce is all jacked UP for the pesky tourist season, faunching at the bit for sales tax revenue and lodging taxes. Where it goes only the Shadow knows.
A well known attorney and public figure that shall remain nameless says that national parks were not meant to be the pig trough that everyone eats from and for gateway communities using them for their living but they do. I don't see that changing for the foreseeable future. They all scream and holler so they can amass monies for their coffers.
Yuck, I need a bucket.
The half has not been told. There's some more things I would like to say but simply haven't got the time and I don't want to step on anyone's toes. As we all know by now, we think and feel differently about almost everything.
Someone is always giving someone else a great big pinch. That's just the way we roll.
When the gates opened yesterday, it was a free-for-all. No social distancing whatsoever and carloads of people from all over the world. Well, that's a fine how-do-you-do for the first day. The pig trough of sales tax revenue lights everyone's eyes UP like a pinball machine. Around here, we endure 9 months of winter so we can enjoy 3 months of summer. There's already been 3 grizzly attacks in two weeks time. They're fed up with everything, too.
This is their home and I won't ever forget that.7 -
Just for fun.
Went to Lowe’s to buy plants. About 1/2 of us had on masks. A whole bunch of us who did were all gathered around the
Marked down plants, all close together. All the people who didn’t have masks on were spread around the rest of the very large area, maybe 20 feet apart. Things that make you say hmmm.5 -
Diatonic12 wrote: »https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/php/open-america/contact-tracing.html
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/downloads/php/principles-contact-tracing-booklet.pdf
https://ec.europa.eu/newsroom/sante/newsletter-specific-archive-issue.cfm?archtype=specific&newsletter_service_id=327&newsletter_issue_id=22243&page=1&fullDate=Wed 13 May 2020&lang=default
The guidelines will be complemented by interoperability specifications for cross-border transmission chains between approved apps. This will be supported by structured discussions between Member States through the eHealth Network. The work of Member States to develop and validate the apps will be supported by the New Generation Internet and m-health communities.
I've heard that there will be apps to do contact tracing in the near future (and another link in a different post talked about someone who is putting one together). But I'm not sure I'm on board with this idea - yes it would be good to know who someone is positive has had contact with so we can alert people that they have been exposed, but it seems like a slippery slope to allow ourselves to be essentially spied upon. If we open this door it would be mighty hard to close it and I don't like the idea that we are opening ourselves to this much government tracking even if for a good cause/reason.
It'll be interesting to see how everything goes with this idea.8 -
Diatonic12 wrote: »https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/php/open-america/contact-tracing.html
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/downloads/php/principles-contact-tracing-booklet.pdf
https://ec.europa.eu/newsroom/sante/newsletter-specific-archive-issue.cfm?archtype=specific&newsletter_service_id=327&newsletter_issue_id=22243&page=1&fullDate=Wed 13 May 2020&lang=default
The guidelines will be complemented by interoperability specifications for cross-border transmission chains between approved apps. This will be supported by structured discussions between Member States through the eHealth Network. The work of Member States to develop and validate the apps will be supported by the New Generation Internet and m-health communities.
I've heard that there will be apps to do contact tracing in the near future (and another link in a different post talked about someone who is putting one together). But I'm not sure I'm on board with this idea - yes it would be good to know who someone is positive has had contact with so we can alert people that they have been exposed, but it seems like a slippery slope to allow ourselves to be essentially spied upon. If we open this door it would be mighty hard to close it and I don't like the idea that we are opening ourselves to this much government tracking even if for a good cause/reason.
It'll be interesting to see how everything goes with this idea.
There are privacy-protecting methods for creating such apps that don't turn massive individual-identity tracking information over to the government (or other centralized entities). How the apps work is therefore a key issue.
I hope you - and others who're concerned about this - know that the default settings on many US cell phones are revealing your location to some large corporation someplace, if you haven't overridden the default settings. (It's not necessarily a privacy-invasion plot, their statement about it is that they do it in order to provide you better assistance in certain contexts. It does better allow them to go after certain types of marketing revenue.
) (May be true outside the US, but I don't know that.) 7 -
Diatonic12 wrote: »https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/php/open-america/contact-tracing.html
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/downloads/php/principles-contact-tracing-booklet.pdf
https://ec.europa.eu/newsroom/sante/newsletter-specific-archive-issue.cfm?archtype=specific&newsletter_service_id=327&newsletter_issue_id=22243&page=1&fullDate=Wed 13 May 2020&lang=default
The guidelines will be complemented by interoperability specifications for cross-border transmission chains between approved apps. This will be supported by structured discussions between Member States through the eHealth Network. The work of Member States to develop and validate the apps will be supported by the New Generation Internet and m-health communities.
I've heard that there will be apps to do contact tracing in the near future (and another link in a different post talked about someone who is putting one together). But I'm not sure I'm on board with this idea - yes it would be good to know who someone is positive has had contact with so we can alert people that they have been exposed, but it seems like a slippery slope to allow ourselves to be essentially spied upon. If we open this door it would be mighty hard to close it and I don't like the idea that we are opening ourselves to this much government tracking even if for a good cause/reason.
It'll be interesting to see how everything goes with this idea.
There are privacy-protecting methods for creating such apps that don't turn massive individual-identity tracking information over to the government (or other centralized entities). How the apps work is therefore a key issue.
I hope you - and others who're concerned about this - know that the default settings on many US cell phones are revealing your location to some large corporation someplace, if you haven't overridden the default settings. (It's not necessarily a privacy-invasion plot, their statement about it is that they do it in order to provide you better assistance in certain contexts. It does better allow them to go after certain types of marketing revenue. ) (May be true outside the US, but I don't know that.)
I haven't taken my phone with me when I go out once since March 11. Take that, spi-phone.7 -
Diatonic12 wrote: »https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/php/open-america/contact-tracing.html
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/downloads/php/principles-contact-tracing-booklet.pdf
https://ec.europa.eu/newsroom/sante/newsletter-specific-archive-issue.cfm?archtype=specific&newsletter_service_id=327&newsletter_issue_id=22243&page=1&fullDate=Wed 13 May 2020&lang=default
The guidelines will be complemented by interoperability specifications for cross-border transmission chains between approved apps. This will be supported by structured discussions between Member States through the eHealth Network. The work of Member States to develop and validate the apps will be supported by the New Generation Internet and m-health communities.
I've heard that there will be apps to do contact tracing in the near future (and another link in a different post talked about someone who is putting one together). But I'm not sure I'm on board with this idea - yes it would be good to know who someone is positive has had contact with so we can alert people that they have been exposed, but it seems like a slippery slope to allow ourselves to be essentially spied upon. If we open this door it would be mighty hard to close it and I don't like the idea that we are opening ourselves to this much government tracking even if for a good cause/reason.
It'll be interesting to see how everything goes with this idea.
There are privacy-protecting methods for creating such apps that don't turn massive individual-identity tracking information over to the government (or other centralized entities). How the apps work is therefore a key issue.
I hope you - and others who're concerned about this - know that the default settings on many US cell phones are revealing your location to some large corporation someplace, if you haven't overridden the default settings. (It's not necessarily a privacy-invasion plot, their statement about it is that they do it in order to provide you better assistance in certain contexts. It does better allow them to go after certain types of marketing revenue. ) (May be true outside the US, but I don't know that.)
I'm not a fan of the way the phone gears my ads towards me whenever I've been searching for something - it's becoming something I'm not comfortable with honestly. The kindle app is totally fine for it to spy on my goodreads/what I've searched for on their app but everything else is bothersome. I guess the reduction in privacy is the price we pay for all these modern conveniences but not sure I like it these days...I'm turning into an old grouchy woman as I get older!2 -
Diatonic12 wrote: »https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/php/open-america/contact-tracing.html
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/downloads/php/principles-contact-tracing-booklet.pdf
https://ec.europa.eu/newsroom/sante/newsletter-specific-archive-issue.cfm?archtype=specific&newsletter_service_id=327&newsletter_issue_id=22243&page=1&fullDate=Wed 13 May 2020&lang=default
The guidelines will be complemented by interoperability specifications for cross-border transmission chains between approved apps. This will be supported by structured discussions between Member States through the eHealth Network. The work of Member States to develop and validate the apps will be supported by the New Generation Internet and m-health communities.
I've heard that there will be apps to do contact tracing in the near future (and another link in a different post talked about someone who is putting one together). But I'm not sure I'm on board with this idea - yes it would be good to know who someone is positive has had contact with so we can alert people that they have been exposed, but it seems like a slippery slope to allow ourselves to be essentially spied upon. If we open this door it would be mighty hard to close it and I don't like the idea that we are opening ourselves to this much government tracking even if for a good cause/reason.
It'll be interesting to see how everything goes with this idea.
There are privacy-protecting methods for creating such apps that don't turn massive individual-identity tracking information over to the government (or other centralized entities). How the apps work is therefore a key issue.
I hope you - and others who're concerned about this - know that the default settings on many US cell phones are revealing your location to some large corporation someplace, if you haven't overridden the default settings. (It's not necessarily a privacy-invasion plot, their statement about it is that they do it in order to provide you better assistance in certain contexts. It does better allow them to go after certain types of marketing revenue. ) (May be true outside the US, but I don't know that.)
I'm not a fan of the way the phone gears my ads towards me whenever I've been searching for something - it's becoming something I'm not comfortable with honestly. The kindle app is totally fine for it to spy on my goodreads/what I've searched for on their app but everything else is bothersome. I guess the reduction in privacy is the price we pay for all these modern conveniences but not sure I like it these days...I'm turning into an old grouchy woman as I get older!
It's scary really, these devices seem to know what we want before we want it.
I don't have a smart phone and not sure if I'll ever get one but it's freaky with just the laptop. 2 -
Diatonic12 wrote: »https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/php/open-america/contact-tracing.html
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/downloads/php/principles-contact-tracing-booklet.pdf
https://ec.europa.eu/newsroom/sante/newsletter-specific-archive-issue.cfm?archtype=specific&newsletter_service_id=327&newsletter_issue_id=22243&page=1&fullDate=Wed 13 May 2020&lang=default
The guidelines will be complemented by interoperability specifications for cross-border transmission chains between approved apps. This will be supported by structured discussions between Member States through the eHealth Network. The work of Member States to develop and validate the apps will be supported by the New Generation Internet and m-health communities.
I've heard that there will be apps to do contact tracing in the near future (and another link in a different post talked about someone who is putting one together). But I'm not sure I'm on board with this idea - yes it would be good to know who someone is positive has had contact with so we can alert people that they have been exposed, but it seems like a slippery slope to allow ourselves to be essentially spied upon. If we open this door it would be mighty hard to close it and I don't like the idea that we are opening ourselves to this much government tracking even if for a good cause/reason.
It'll be interesting to see how everything goes with this idea.
The way the proposed apps work is that phones talk to each other nearby phones by broadcasting random strings of numbers. Then if someone gets the virus, they send an alert to all phones which have “talked” to that phone. No human has to know who encountered who.11 -
rheddmobile wrote: »Diatonic12 wrote: »https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/php/open-america/contact-tracing.html
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/downloads/php/principles-contact-tracing-booklet.pdf
https://ec.europa.eu/newsroom/sante/newsletter-specific-archive-issue.cfm?archtype=specific&newsletter_service_id=327&newsletter_issue_id=22243&page=1&fullDate=Wed 13 May 2020&lang=default
The guidelines will be complemented by interoperability specifications for cross-border transmission chains between approved apps. This will be supported by structured discussions between Member States through the eHealth Network. The work of Member States to develop and validate the apps will be supported by the New Generation Internet and m-health communities.
I've heard that there will be apps to do contact tracing in the near future (and another link in a different post talked about someone who is putting one together). But I'm not sure I'm on board with this idea - yes it would be good to know who someone is positive has had contact with so we can alert people that they have been exposed, but it seems like a slippery slope to allow ourselves to be essentially spied upon. If we open this door it would be mighty hard to close it and I don't like the idea that we are opening ourselves to this much government tracking even if for a good cause/reason.
It'll be interesting to see how everything goes with this idea.
The way the proposed apps work is that phones talk to each other nearby phones by broadcasting random strings of numbers. Then if someone gets the virus, they send an alert to all phones which have “talked” to that phone. No human has to know who encountered who.
Yes, Australia has this app.. 🙂 over a million downloads.
https://www.health.gov.au/resources/apps-and-tools/covidsafe-app#about-the-app4 -
Diatonic12 wrote: »https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/php/open-america/contact-tracing.html
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/downloads/php/principles-contact-tracing-booklet.pdf
https://ec.europa.eu/newsroom/sante/newsletter-specific-archive-issue.cfm?archtype=specific&newsletter_service_id=327&newsletter_issue_id=22243&page=1&fullDate=Wed 13 May 2020&lang=default
The guidelines will be complemented by interoperability specifications for cross-border transmission chains between approved apps. This will be supported by structured discussions between Member States through the eHealth Network. The work of Member States to develop and validate the apps will be supported by the New Generation Internet and m-health communities.
I've heard that there will be apps to do contact tracing in the near future (and another link in a different post talked about someone who is putting one together). But I'm not sure I'm on board with this idea - yes it would be good to know who someone is positive has had contact with so we can alert people that they have been exposed, but it seems like a slippery slope to allow ourselves to be essentially spied upon. If we open this door it would be mighty hard to close it and I don't like the idea that we are opening ourselves to this much government tracking even if for a good cause/reason.
It'll be interesting to see how everything goes with this idea.
The apps being developed by major providers for the U.S. don't contemplate turning the information over to the government (which has made public health officials far less enthusiastic about them). Basically, you would download the app if you wanted and opt in to having your location tracked and stored. Then, if you or anyone else using the app tests positive for COVID, you or they would be expected to notify the app of that, and the app would in turn let all the app users who had been in the same location as you in the past XX days know that they have potentially been exposed. They wouldn't be told who the person was who may have exposed them, and the government wouldn't be told anything.
Between the potential for jerks downloading it and falsely reporting they've tested positive (for the same reason some of the unmasked mock the masked), and the likelihood that lots of people would fail to report if they tested positive (because they were too sick by that time to be thinking about it, because they had renewed privacy concerns, because they forgot about it, because they were busy trying to figure out how to deal with real self-quaranting and not expose the people they live with, etc.), I'm not seeing these apps as being all that helpful.5 -
corinasue1143 wrote: »Just for fun.
Went to Lowe’s to buy plants. About 1/2 of us had on masks. A whole bunch of us who did were all gathered around the
Marked down plants, all close together. All the people who didn’t have masks on were spread around the rest of the very large area, maybe 20 feet apart. Things that make you say hmmm.
I'm not quite sure what point you were intending to make with this - but it makes the point to me that people can view masks as a false sense of security - in fact, being socially distanced apart is of more value than wearing masks.
Of course I realise it isnt either/or and I realise you sometimes cant avoid being close to people (eg when having neccesary medical treatment)
But you shouldn't need to be close together around marked down plants, mask or no masks.
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