Overhead Press

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Replies

  • wiigelec
    wiigelec Posts: 503 Member
    zamphir66 wrote: »
    I barely managed my first 5 reps at 65 lbs. Pretty sure I was cheating on the last one. Second set? Forget about it. I got the bar above my head once, no more.
    how long are you resting between sets?

  • zamphir66
    zamphir66 Posts: 582 Member
    wiigelec wrote: »
    zamphir66 wrote: »
    I barely managed my first 5 reps at 65 lbs. Pretty sure I was cheating on the last one. Second set? Forget about it. I got the bar above my head once, no more.
    how long are you resting between sets?

    3 minutes at least.
  • Chieflrg wrote: »
    SL is a linear progession program only to be used for a couple months. It is not ever to be expected to keep adding weight for more than 3-4 at best.

    99% of the time OHP is first to go.

    SL is poorly written with zero increases in volume. Out of the four lifts 5×5 is best suited for OHP.

    I stress that taking sets off is the opposite of what will work long term.

    You should stop increasing intensity and proceed at a intensity you can complete with 2-3 left in tank. Add a set when the tank has more reps.

    You could also add a exercise such as BB incline and do 3×5 of each.

    Taking sets off does not produce strength in the least. It only destresses you temporary.

    Adding micro plates is about inefficient as it gets for long term. Add stimulus not take it away.



    That’s interesting. I’ve been using micro plates for bench and ohp. I’m not doing strong lifts. I’m doing an intermediate programme from muscle and strength pyramids. Should I not bother with micro plates?
  • wiigelec
    wiigelec Posts: 503 Member
    zamphir66 wrote: »
    3 minutes at least.
    you could try resting longer and see what that does for you.

    i would also suggest that a calorie deficit may not be the best way to make strength gains.

    so, things that could help;

    - different programming
    - longer rest between sets
    - micro loading
    - diet
  • CipherZero
    CipherZero Posts: 1,418 Member
    That’s interesting. I’ve been using micro plates for bench and ohp. I’m not doing strong lifts. I’m doing an intermediate programme from muscle and strength pyramids. Should I not bother with micro plates?

    It depends. If you know you're using the exact same plates every time they can be valuable; if you're in a public gym, the plate variances can be enough to really throw off the calculations. Even my home gym (uncalibrated) plates vary 3 lbs on the 45 lb plates.
  • Chieflrg
    Chieflrg Posts: 9,090 Member
    CipherZero wrote: »
    That’s interesting. I’ve been using micro plates for bench and ohp. I’m not doing strong lifts. I’m doing an intermediate programme from muscle and strength pyramids. Should I not bother with micro plates?

    It depends. If you know you're using the exact same plates every time they can be valuable; if you're in a public gym, the plate variances can be enough to really throw off the calculations. Even my home gym (uncalibrated) plates vary 3 lbs on the 45 lb plates.

    This is my answer as well but I add...

    When I squat with uncalubrated plates and my target is lets say 405×7 @RPE 8. If I was doing linear progressive programming such as SL( I don't, I use auto regulated) ...

    I might be actually lifting 20lbs less(385) or 20nlbs more(425)depending on combination of random uncalubrated plates I choose for that day.
    That can really throw off a LP style programming. Is a micro plate really going to make a difference? Not likely when we truly don't know what weight we are lifting.

    If we are using calibrated plates or the exact same commercial gym plates then micro could have some usefulness for certain lifters.

    That being said, the majority of lifters would be better off just adding a set of volume at appropriate intensity based by exertion not by a robotic addition of a micro plate.
    Are we actually lifting more than previous session? That is what dismisses the idea of micro helps when we don't know what we are actually lifting.
  • Chieflrg
    Chieflrg Posts: 9,090 Member
    wiigelec wrote: »
    zamphir66 wrote: »
    3 minutes at least.
    you could try resting longer and see what that does for you.

    i would also suggest that a calorie deficit may not be the best way to make strength gains.

    so, things that could help;

    - different programming
    - longer rest between sets
    - micro loading
    - diet

    3 min rest for a pressing movement is pretty standard.

    It helps build our work capacity.

    Our pressing movement don't demand much more rest. If you can't recover in neatly three minutes for a OHP, there are probably better options than rest longer as a first option.
  • wiigelec
    wiigelec Posts: 503 Member
    Chieflrg wrote: »
    3 min rest for a pressing movement is pretty standard.

    It helps build our work capacity.

    Our pressing movement don't demand much more rest. If you can't recover in neatly three minutes for a OHP, there are probably better options than rest longer as a first option.
    of course one would need to experiment with themselves and the various available options to see what works best in their individual circumstances and discover the nuances best suited for them, rather than excepting as gospel the random opines of internet strangers...

  • ritzvin
    ritzvin Posts: 2,849 Member
    on the micro plates and variances... As a beginner, the amount of plates, weight is going to be much, much less than that example. In some instances, it might be an intermediate step between the empty barbell (and not necessarily the full-sized one) and adding a single 2.5 lb plate to each side. In the OP's case, the barbell and 2 10-lb plates (not a pile of 45's). (as opposed to attempting to load something in the neighborhood of 397.5 vs 400 lbs).
  • Chieflrg
    Chieflrg Posts: 9,090 Member
    ritzvin wrote: »
    on the micro plates and variances... As a beginner, the amount of plates, weight is going to be much, much less than that example. In some instances, it might be an intermediate step between the empty barbell (and not necessarily the full-sized one) and adding a single 2.5 lb plate to each side. In the OP's case, the barbell and 2 10-lb plates (not a pile of 45's). (as opposed to attempting to load something in the neighborhood of 397.5 vs 400 lbs).

    Doesn't matter if we are talking 405 or 75. If that is RPE8, then that is RPE 8. If we are overahooting exertion because we feel we need a number...that is problematic.

    The point is stop worrying about adding a arbitrary number and woory about exertion. Micro plates have there place but usually more advanced programming where gains are few and far between.
  • Chieflrg
    Chieflrg Posts: 9,090 Member
    edited October 2020
    wiigelec wrote: »
    Chieflrg wrote: »
    3 min rest for a pressing movement is pretty standard.

    It helps build our work capacity.

    Our pressing movement don't demand much more rest. If you can't recover in neatly three minutes for a OHP, there are probably better options than rest longer as a first option.
    of course one would need to experiment with themselves and the various available options to see what works best in their individual circumstances and discover the nuances best suited for them, rather than excepting as gospel the random opines of internet strangers...
    Random internet advice is bad. Agreed.

    Listening to people who have data of thousands of lifters and OHP over 300lbs is more than likely helpful. These people might be able to give better advice then people who believe in random things not backed by data.



  • wiigelec
    wiigelec Posts: 503 Member
    edited October 2020
    Chieflrg wrote: »
    Listening to people who have data of thousands of lifters and OHP over 300lbs is more than likely helpful. These people might be able to give better advice then people who believe in random things not backed by data.
    perhaps.

    not as any personal disrespect to you, but the ability to press 300# does not imply knowledge or ability to get other people to press the same heavy weight. that is an appeal to authority and represents a logical fallacy. again not saying you personally do not possess that knowledge or skill.

    there are many people who can press 300# that did not follow your programming choices (for example resting several minutes between sets).

    there are also many people who could follow your programming advice to a T and never come close to pressing 300#, even if for reasons that have nothing to do with the programming.

    ultimately one must find, among the hundreds of at least partially useful bits of information out there, those handful that work for them, their goals and their constraints. the only way to do that is by some manner of trial and error.

    dismissing methods that have worked for many people over many demographics over many years, regardless of whether they have been studied and published by (insert pet exercise research scientist here) in some peer reviewed journal, is limiting at best.

  • wiigelec
    wiigelec Posts: 503 Member
    edited October 2020
    since you like studies so much here is one that demonstrates increasing rest periods between sets correlates to increased number of reps in subsequent sets:

    https://journals.lww.com/nsca-jscr/Fulltext/2016/03000/Effect_of_Different_Interset_Rest_Intervals_on.14.aspx
  • wiigelec
    wiigelec Posts: 503 Member
    i know you don't like these guys, but it doesn't make their experience any less valid than your own:

    https://startingstrength.com/article/rest-between-sets
  • Chieflrg wrote: »
    CipherZero wrote: »
    That’s interesting. I’ve been using micro plates for bench and ohp. I’m not doing strong lifts. I’m doing an intermediate programme from muscle and strength pyramids. Should I not bother with micro plates?

    It depends. If you know you're using the exact same plates every time they can be valuable; if you're in a public gym, the plate variances can be enough to really throw off the calculations. Even my home gym (uncalibrated) plates vary 3 lbs on the 45 lb plates.

    This is my answer as well but I add...

    When I squat with uncalubrated plates and my target is lets say 405×7 @RPE 8. If I was doing linear progressive programming such as SL( I don't, I use auto regulated) ...

    I might be actually lifting 20lbs less(385) or 20nlbs more(425)depending on combination of random uncalubrated plates I choose for that day.
    That can really throw off a LP style programming. Is a micro plate really going to make a difference? Not likely when we truly don't know what weight we are lifting.

    If we are using calibrated plates or the exact same commercial gym plates then micro could have some usefulness for certain lifters.

    That being said, the majority of lifters would be better off just adding a set of volume at appropriate intensity based by exertion not by a robotic addition of a micro plate.
    Are we actually lifting more than previous session? That is what dismisses the idea of micro helps when we don't know what we are actually lifting.

    Well I have my own micro plates but I train at a commercial gym. Im following helms intermediate programme in muscle and strength pyramids. I decided to use micro plates because progress on ohp was little to non even with wave loading. Maybe I won’t bother. The plates at the gym are not gonna be accurate. It’s all a bit random really.
  • wiigelec
    wiigelec Posts: 503 Member
    Well I have my own micro plates but I train at a commercial gym. Im following helms intermediate programme in muscle and strength pyramids. I decided to use micro plates because progress on ohp was little to non even with wave loading. Maybe I won’t bother. The plates at the gym are not gonna be accurate. It’s all a bit random really.
    one suggestion is to mark a set of plates at the gym somehow so you will always be consistent, making the micro loading more suitable.

    of course the logistics of marking and locating plates may be more trouble than it’s worth...
  • wiigelec wrote: »
    Well I have my own micro plates but I train at a commercial gym. Im following helms intermediate programme in muscle and strength pyramids. I decided to use micro plates because progress on ohp was little to non even with wave loading. Maybe I won’t bother. The plates at the gym are not gonna be accurate. It’s all a bit random really.
    one suggestion is to mark a set of plates at the gym somehow so you will always be consistent, making the micro loading more suitable.

    of course the logistics of marking and locating plates may be more trouble than it’s worth...
    That’s a good idea actually, thanks
  • ecjim
    ecjim Posts: 960 Member
    edited October 2020
    Another option - drop the weight down to 60 lbs or maybe 55 do your 5x5 but do more reps , when you get to 8, 10 , increase the weight & go back to 5x5 and repeat. I use a similar progression - easier on my joints. If you can get your 5 reps up to 8 or 10 , that means you have gotten stronger
  • wiigelec
    wiigelec Posts: 503 Member
    as a propagator of unpopular opinion, i would be remiss if i failed to mention this one:

    switching to 5 sets of 3 may allow continued progress on your linear progression style programming.

    aa previously mentioned, it may only work for a short amount of time, but still may be worth considering before adding in other layers of complexity to your training regiment.